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  • Why Doesn't Bill Guerin Borrow From Bill Belichick's Core Philosophy?


    Image courtesy of Nick Wosika-USA TODAY Sports
    Tom Schreier

    Bill Belichick was the New England Patriots head coach and de facto general manager from 2000 to 2023. During that time, he won six Super Bowls because of his ruthless approach to roster-building. “Better to let a player go a year too early,” he figured, “than a year too late.”

    I don’t know if Bill Guerin knows Belichick or looks up to him as an executive. However, Guerin is from Worchester, Mass., 45 miles from where the Patriots play in Foxborough. Guerin was also playing for the Boston Bruins when the Pats hired Belichick in 2000. Odds are, he’s heard of the third-winningest coach in NFL history.

    Hockey isn’t football, but most modern GMs adhere to Belichick’s philosophy. Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah cut Adam Thielen, who walked onto the team after playing at D2 Minnesota State, when Thielen demanded more money than he was willing to budget for him. Similarly, Twins president Derek Falvey has taken successful one-year fliers on players like Matt Wisler and Donovan Solano, only to move on from them the following season. 

    However, Guerin has implemented the opposite philosophy. Guerin inherited Ryan Hartman, a journeyman winger who scored 18 goals in his first two seasons with Minnesota. However, Guerin extended him for three years, $5.1 million in 2021. Hartman scored 34 goals in the first year of that extension, but it was an outlier season for the former first-rounder. Hartman’s previous career high was 19 goals with the Chicago Blackhawks in his first full NHL season.

    Hartman only scored 15 goals in 59 games the following season, but Guerin awarded him with a three-year, $12 million contract last offseason. Hartman had 21 goals and 24 points last season, respectable totals for a depth wing. Still, most of his scoring has come when he’s centering the top line with Kirill Kaprizov. That sounds fine until you consider that means the Wild have a depth wing centering their top line

    While Kaprizov is elevating Hartman, Hartman is suppressing Kaprizov’s production. Winning teams pair bona fide centers with their skill players, and Kaprizov is better off playing with Joel Eriksson Ek or Marco Rossi on his line than a depth winger. 

    Overpaying a role player benefitting from a star player’s production is a cardinal sin for any front office, given that it leads to overpaying players and unnecessary budget crunch. However, it’s especially so for one that bought out Zach Parise and Ryan Suter. Parise and Suter’s $7.3 million dead cap hits are the third-highest cap hits on the team, behind Kaprizov ($9 million) and Jared Spurgeon ($7.58 million) but ahead of Matt Boldy ($7 million) and Eriksson Ek ($5.25 million). 

    Instead of spending responsibly during the cap hell he created, which often means playing cost-controlled rookies with upside, Guerin has continued filling Minnesota’s roster with bad-value contracts. In addition to signing Hartman last offseason, Guerin also inked Marcus Foligno (four years, $16 million) and Mats Zuccarello (two years, $8.25 million) to extensions. 

    “I believe in these guys,” Guerin said after signing them. “I think they are how we get better here.”

    Hartman, Foligno, and Zuccarello regressed, and so did the Wild. Minnesota had a franchise-record 113 points in 2021-22. Last year, they went from a 103-point team to finishing with 87 points and out of the playoffs. Hartman went from a 65-point player two years ago to a 45-point player last season. He also oscillated between being a glue guy and a goon. Similarly, Foligno, 32, went from playing 74 games two years ago to 65 in 2022-23 to 55 last year. He had 42 points in 2021-22 but has only produced 43 in the past two seasons combined

    Signing Zuccarello, 36, to a two-year extension is less risky despite his age. Still, most of his value was his chemistry with Kaprizov. Good GMs retain role players who bring out the best in their stars. However, Zuccarello no longer plays on Kaprizov’s line. The Wild gave each player no-move clauses, meaning they’ve locked themselves into a mediocre roster that blocks their best prospects when they would have been better off moving Hartman, Foligno, and Zuccarello at the deadline.

    It’s not just Hartman, Foligno, and Hartman. The Wild signed Freddy Gaudreau to a five-year, $10.5 million contract after scoring 19 goals in 2022-23 and 14 goals the year before. He had five goals and 15 points last season. They’ve had a sordid love affair with Marcus Johansson and bought the dip on Zach Bogosian. He recently extended Jake Middleton, 28, for four years, $17.4 million a year before his previous contract ended.

    Conversely, they played hardball in negotiations with Kaprizov and won’t sign Rossi long-term after a breakout season. Guerin kowtows to large, veteran players but didn’t sign Kaprizov to a full-length contract and may eventually push his second-best center out of town. As a result, Guerin has built a top-heavy team with middle-class bloat. He’s practically designed a team to exist on the playoff bubble in a market full of fans tired of first-round exits.

    Belichick’s fatal flaw was mismanaging Hall of Fame quarterback Tom Brady late in his career. He spent years asking Brady to take pay cuts so he could build a team around him, only to fail to acquire enough good receivers. Belichick chose not to re-sign Brady at the end of the 2019 season, only to watch him win the Super Bowl with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers a year later. 

    By failing to sign Kaprizov long-term, Guerin has mimicked Belichick’s worst trait while failing to adhere to his core philosophy. He has wantonly handed out long-term extensions with no-trade clauses to aging, declining veterans and negotiated aggressively with his best players. As a result, he only has two years to build a winner around Kaprizov before he’s stuck with a flawed team with no superstar.

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    3 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    97 is a player that you cannot replace with volume.

    It definitely depends on who you replace Kirill with.  I've watched Vegas send some pretty darn good players out the door and still have a cup contender.  We have seen what the Wild are without Ek and it isn't pretty.  As I said, this is a tough decision for a GM.  Players like Kirill that know how to win and bring it every night are rare.

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    The thing is: has Kaprizov gotten the Wild any closer than Gaborik, Koivu, Suter, or Parise did?  There's logic in the sense that you cannot replace an all-star caliber player.  I'm not saying don't try.  I'm just not completely hung up on a life or death scenario, since the best team the Wild had success wise was Gaborik, a bunch of guys of 40-60 pts, and two hot goaltenders...

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    2 hours ago, TCMooch said:

    I like how everybody is saying the salary cap will go up and a $15 million year contract for a not top 10 NHL player will be  fine. The exact same thing was said here (well old here when it was SBNation) when we signed Parise and Suter and then the cap basically stagnated for an average increase of 2.5 million over the next 7 years. LOL

    Yes but this time the salary cap is actually going up.. It jumped up about $4M from last season to this season alone. The big bucks are finally rolling in for the league. 

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    31 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

    I've watched Vegas send some pretty darn good players out the door and still have a cup contender. 

    I agree with everything you said in this post.  It then comes down whether or not you think Guerin is shrewd enough (like Vegas has proven to be since day #1) to execute a transaction that results in a net positive result when dealing away a player of 97's caliber. 

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    23 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

    I don't see Hartman's contract as a bad one. Foligno's probably is bad because he'll get hurt due to his play style. Zucc's contract looks okay if his production doesn't fall off the table. Frauddie's contract is bad. NoJo's contract is bad.

    Zuccs production HAS fallen off the table.  He had a WHOLE 6 points when not on the ice with KK last year.  A point rate that is LESS than half of NoJo.  

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    1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    I agree with everything you said in this post.  It then comes down whether or not you think Guerin is shrewd enough (like Vegas has proven to be since day #1) to execute a transaction that results in a net positive result when dealing away a player of 97's caliber. 

    The other shoe will drop for Vegas in the next couple seasons.  They gambled and hit, but they keep trading out their higher picks to acquire players for a playoff push - sound familiar?  It's fine to go to that well once in a while, but doing it too often sets you up for mediocrity for years while you recover.  Vegas has its reputation as more of a destination to rely on, but that will only take you so far too.  I really think they start falling off in the next few years.

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    2 hours ago, Patrick said:

    Zuccs production HAS fallen off the table.  He had a WHOLE 6 points when not on the ice with KK last year.  A point rate that is LESS than half of NoJo.  

    And let's not forget how unimpressive Zuc was here before 97 arrived.  Everyone said he was still injured, blah, blah, blah.  He's a useful player when paired with 97 b/c 97 can unlock Zuc's value, but he's Nojo 2.0 without 97.  

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    3 hours ago, B1GKappa97 said:

    Yes but this time the salary cap is actually going up.. It jumped up about $4M from last season to this season alone. The big bucks are finally rolling in for the league. 

    The salary cap jumped like $4.7 million from 13-14 to 14-15 seasons and then stagnated. I'm not saying the salary cap will NOT RISE but let's have very recent history show us that it is not a slam dunk guarantee and not something we should bank on as far as contract management.

    Edited by TCMooch
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    46 minutes ago, TCMooch said:

    The salary cap jumped like $4.7 million from 13-14 to 14-15 seasons and then stagnated. I'm not saying the salary cap will NOT RISE but let's have very recent history show us that it is not a slam dunk guarantee and not something we should bank on as far as contract management.

    Yes and that was before they started getting in bed with sports gambling. 

     

    52 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    And let's not forget how unimpressive Zuc was here before 97 arrived.  Everyone said he was still injured, blah, blah, blah.  He's a useful player when paired with 97 b/c 97 can unlock Zuc's value, but he's Nojo 2.0 without 97.  

    Not to mention that's a bit unfair to a guy who shines on a powerplay. Which will naturally put him on the ice with Kaprizov. I mean who's a better facillitator than Zuccy on the team? He needs Kap more than the other way around, for sure, but such is life for a pass-first playmaker. At least he's still being productive when paired with Kaprizov. 

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    6 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

    $15M for 1 player or $5M for 3 players.  There are a lot of very talented players at the $5M range.  This would be a very tough decision for a GM.  Which one is more likely to get you wins and a cup.

    I wouldn't give Kap 15 mill unless he went off this season from start to finish. 15 would be an overpay. IMO

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    6 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Yeah, but that's also 3-4 Trenins instead of Beckman, Walker, Letteri, Lucchini...works both ways.  

    sure, but at some point you need a top drag these slugs towards the playoffs and beyond?  having to put that money into proven commodity is one thing, but to rely on stars aligning and hitting on that perfect combo. chances of three EKs or three Tuchs are a lot less likely than Billy picking  up another trio of underachieving third liners. 

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    1 hour ago, B1GKappa97 said:

    I mean who's a better facillitator than Zuccy on the team?

    This is sort of like justifying Fraud's existence because he's pretty good at shoot outs.  Nothing else, but good at shoot outs.  

    This is a little bit hyperbole, but not alot.  And little Zuccy is now a year older and slower.

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    5 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

    The thing is: has Kaprizov gotten the Wild any closer than Gaborik, Koivu, Suter, or Parise did?  There's logic in the sense that you cannot replace an all-star caliber player.  I'm not saying don't try.  I'm just not completely hung up on a life or death scenario, since the best team the Wild had success wise was Gaborik, a bunch of guys of 40-60 pts, and two hot goaltenders...

    hmm he gave us relevance, league appeal, star power, bravado, finesse, made figure  skating cool, scored with ease with virtually no one on his line, rejuvenated careers, embarrassed doughty (F DD), became top 5 player in the league (don't try to argue), and saved a bunny once. you cannot just replace him you fools! 🙂

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    When remembering Belichek's building of the team, I remember him having Drew Bledsoe as his QB. That year, he signed a slew of veteran free agents on 1 year deals cheap. When Bledsoe went down with injury, a young Tom Brady stepped up to the plate, and guided them to the playoffs.

    These vet free agents would be the equivalent of bottom 6 signings as Shooter has done. The difference? Shooter has started opening up the checkbook for these guys, however, this was not the cheap Patriots way. Belichek went after vets for less who had a chip on their shoulder.

    Belichek rarely had a top 1st round pick. In fact, he preferred to select bunches of players in the mid to later rounds thinking the same thing, they were humble, hungry, and played with chips on their shoulders. This would go against the advice of many of the arm chair GMs here, who think if you just have a slew of top picks that's how you build a champion.

    Tom Brady also throughout his career, made a lot of money, but also left a lot of money on the table. He valued having good teammates around him, and took less of the pie to have more support. But, the Patriots still were a cheap organization, and they rarely paid top dollar for vets. Their calling card later was "come on over and play for a championship." 

    Belichek got extremely lucky to have a QB like Brady. We are just as lucky to have a Kaprizov at forward. But, is Kaprizov and his agent wired like Brady was? This I kind of doubt since his agent is known for playing hardball. If we were using the Patriots method, we would be seeing Kaprizov taking a hometown discount in order to get more talent around him. If this is a serious article, the ball is most definitely not in Guerin's court, but in Kaprizov's. Guerin has already expressed interest in having him stay. 

    I, personally, have liked that Shooter has kept his 1st and 2nd round picks throughout his tenure. I like that he has drafted well and keeps trying to bring in an extra 1st or 2nd. In conclusion, I do not believe that going the Belichek path is going to be successful for this club. You can take an idea or 2 from Belichek, but his method was only successful because he had a Tom Brady for 17 years. 

    PS-This method would also suggest that Guerin as GM fire Heinzy and come down and coach the team himself~!

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    If Kap wants any more than $11mm for 4-5 years let him walk or trade him.  This talk of 13-15mm is crazy and you can get 3-4 very solid players for that.  IMO he is not a top 10 player like McDavid, Mathews and McKinnon.  Those guys take over a gave and sorry Kap just doesn’t.  Build a team not just a collection of high salary players. 

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    12 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    This is sort of like justifying Fraud's existence because he's pretty good at shoot outs.  Nothing else, but good at shoot outs.  

    This is a little bit hyperbole, but not alot.  And little Zuccy is now a year older and slower.

    Not even close. An NHL team will go to a shoot-out, what, a dozen times in a season at most? But they'll get over a hundred PP opportunities during a season. 

    Luckily for Zuccy his game was never predicated on being fast, so the fact he's slowing down hasn't taken away much of his game. 

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    5 hours ago, B1GKappa97 said:

    Not even close. An NHL team will go to a shoot-out, what, a dozen times in a season at most? But they'll get over a hundred PP opportunities during a season. 

    Luckily for Zuccy his game was never predicated on being fast, so the fact he's slowing down hasn't taken away much of his game. 

    I was commenting about having a player on roster getting regular minutes who only plays one dimension of the game (Fred=SO, zuc=PP).   Your response ,which I don’t disagree with, addresses #of reps.   
    I’m firmly in the ‘deal zuc’ now while there’s still some market value because he’s fading fast IMO

    Edited by Pewterschmidt
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    14 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

    If Kap wants any more than $11mm for 4-5 years let him walk or trade him.  This talk of 13-15mm is crazy and you can get 3-4 very solid players for that.  IMO he is not a top 10 player like McDavid, Mathews and McKinnon.  Those guys take over a gave and sorry Kap just doesn’t.  Build a team not just a collection of high salary players. 

    KK97 might be as good as the 3M's points wise this year.  We will find out if we keep Boldy-Ek-KK97 together.    

    The problem so far is he hasn't been playing with a 1C and a goal scorer his whole career.  I think sky is the fucking limit this year and with it will come the bill.  (13M or more)

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    15 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

    When remembering Belichek's building of the team, I remember him having Drew Bledsoe as his QB. That year, he signed a slew of veteran free agents on 1 year deals cheap. When Bledsoe went down with injury, a young Tom Brady stepped up to the plate, and guided them to the playoffs.

    These vet free agents would be the equivalent of bottom 6 signings as Shooter has done. The difference? Shooter has started opening up the checkbook for these guys, however, this was not the cheap Patriots way. Belichek went after vets for less who had a chip on their shoulder.

    Belichek rarely had a top 1st round pick. In fact, he preferred to select bunches of players in the mid to later rounds thinking the same thing, they were humble, hungry, and played with chips on their shoulders. This would go against the advice of many of the arm chair GMs here, who think if you just have a slew of top picks that's how you build a champion.

    Tom Brady also throughout his career, made a lot of money, but also left a lot of money on the table. He valued having good teammates around him, and took less of the pie to have more support. But, the Patriots still were a cheap organization, and they rarely paid top dollar for vets. Their calling card later was "come on over and play for a championship." 

    Belichek got extremely lucky to have a QB like Brady. We are just as lucky to have a Kaprizov at forward. But, is Kaprizov and his agent wired like Brady was? This I kind of doubt since his agent is known for playing hardball. If we were using the Patriots method, we would be seeing Kaprizov taking a hometown discount in order to get more talent around him. If this is a serious article, the ball is most definitely not in Guerin's court, but in Kaprizov's. Guerin has already expressed interest in having him stay. 

    I, personally, have liked that Shooter has kept his 1st and 2nd round picks throughout his tenure. I like that he has drafted well and keeps trying to bring in an extra 1st or 2nd. In conclusion, I do not believe that going the Belichek path is going to be successful for this club. You can take an idea or 2 from Belichek, but his method was only successful because he had a Tom Brady for 17 years. 

    PS-This method would also suggest that Guerin as GM fire Heinzy and come down and coach the team himself~!

    One other point about Brady. His wife made more money than he did so salary wasn't the biggest driving force for him.

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    45 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

    We will find out if we keep Boldy-Ek-KK97 together.  

    Hynzy and Guerin have both signalled that Zuc and Hartzy will be reunited with 97 (not permanently for full season necessarily) and I believe the reason is to extract more from Zuc and Harty rather than have them lanquish w/o 97.  Theory is that Ek and MaBo can join Rossi/Ogzy/? and create a second line that can contribute offensively making us closer to a two line team vs one line team that's easy to neutralize.

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    28 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    Hynzy and Guerin have both signalled that Zuc and Hartzy will be reunited with 97 (not permanently for full season necessarily) and I believe the reason is to extract more from Zuc and Harty rather than have them lanquish w/o 97.  Theory is that Ek and MaBo can join Rossi/Ogzy/? and create a second line that can contribute offensively making us closer to a two line team vs one line team that's easy to neutralize.

    WTF?  To roll that old line strategically instead of tactically seems crazy.  I get it for a in-game shake up maybe but to deliberately fall back to a failing strategy vs last year's success with the top line is dumb.

    Career suicide.  

    I mean even gambling sites think this top line is going to be insane.

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