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  • What Are the Wild’s Ideal Defensive Pairings When Brodin Returns?


    Image courtesy of Kyle Ross-Imagn Images
    Neil Urbanski

    For the first time since Zachary L'Heureux slew-footed Jared Spurgeon on January 2, the Minnesota Wild had a fully healthy defensive corps for their showdown against the Boston Bruins on Tuesday night.

    But with Brodin’s return, the Wild finally have the luxury of deploying their defensemen however they’d like. They have eight to choose from, but Travis Dermott seems destined for the waiver wire. That would leave the Wild with the seven defensemen who made the team out of training camp: Spurgeon, Brodin, Brock Faber, Jacob Middleton, Declan Chisholm, Jon Merrill, and Zach Bogosian.

    As the season heads into the backstretch and teams begin ramping up for the playoffs, the Wild must effectively structure their defensive corps to compete with the top teams in the Western Conference. While Wild fans are drooling over the possibility of prized prospect Zeev Buium joining the team for a playoff run, any talk of that happening is merely conjecture. 

    The Wild have used 14 different defensive pairs for at least 30 minutes of five-on-five gameplay this season, shown below from most to least used:

    Screenshot 2025-02-05 at 11.07.22 AM.png

     *Data from Natural Stat Trick

    While the three most frequently-used pairings (Middleton-Faber, Spurgeon-Chisholm, and Bogosian-Merrill) feature one right and one left-handed player, none feature Brodin. The smooth-skating Swede has missed 22 of Minnesota’s 53 games due to injury. That said, the Wild have most frequently deployed Brodin as part of a right-left duo.

    The Wild have a diverse mix of attributes among their seven chosen defensemen, allowing them to mix and match depending on matchups or roster availability. Still, finding three steady pairings that John Hynes can write into the lineup card every night would provide significant stability for the team. It would also afford goaltenders Filip Gustavsson and Marc-André Fleury some predictability as they anticipate shots and read plays behind the same lineup nightly. 

    Ideally, a contending team can ice a mobile, reliable shutdown pairing that can be deployed against the opposing team’s top line each night. It’s also essential for this pairing to have enough puck-moving ability to consistently turn loose pucks and turnovers into changes of possession that force those top lines to retreat and defend. 

    The Wild seem to have already settled on Brodin and Spurgeon, a duo that fits the bill perfectly. In the 161 minutes of hockey the two have played together this season, they’ve been primarily matched against each team’s best players. Despite that, they’ve produced a 67.95% expected goals percentage (and an actual goals percentage of 66.67%), which is the best mark in the NHL for pairs that have played at least 100 minutes. The league average for such pairings is 49.13%. Combined with elite two-way center Joel Eriksson Ek, Brodin, and Spurgeon can control play against anyone in the NHL.

    Brodin is the ideal shutdown defenseman and has proved it by dominating against the league’s top player, Connor McDavid. According to Natural Stat Trick, when Brodin is on the ice with McDavid over the past three seasons, Minnesota has outshot the Edmonton Oilers 39 to 23. Meanwhile, Edmonton has outscored the Wild 4-3. 

    Against Nathan MacKinnon, who many consider the second-best player in the NHL, Brodin and the Wild have been even in shots with 44 apiece. In that time, the Wild have outscored their division rival 6-2. 

    That is not a typo. 

    Brodin uses his superb skating, edgework, and anticipation to control the flow of play and frustrate the league’s top players. It’s tantalizing to think how that might unfold over a seven-game series. 

    The 5-foot-9, 166 lbs. Spurgeon is a master of body positioning and anticipation, and these tools make him the perfect player to read off of Brodin to further suffocate the opposition. The stats from the past three seasons also suggest this. Minnesota has outshot and outscored McDavid (33-22 and 3-2) and MacKinnon (19-18 and 1-0) with Spurgeon on the ice.

    With the first pair settled, the Wild can deploy complementary second and third pairs that can play different styles. They should pair Faber and Chisholm on the second pair and use Middleton with Merrill or Bogosian on the third. 

    Middleton has enjoyed a strong season thus far, but his play has slipped lately. It’s probably a sign of regression after a run of sustained good fortune. Per MoneyPuck, Middleton’s expected goals percentage thus far is -0.5%, while his actual goal differential is +10. 

    When a player outperforms their expected metrics by that much, some regression is expected, and that’s been visible over the past month. Middleton’s isolated performance has slowly dipped after a strong run of play to start the season.

    Screenshot 2025-02-05 at 11.15.17 AM.png

    Still, Middleton is a solid player and would slot in nicely as a featured piece of an elite third pair. Merrill or Bogosian would complement his decent mobility and ability to make timely attacks when joining the rush in transition. 

    Merrill has quietly had a strong season thus far. He plays a conservative, heady style, producing strong underlying results for the depth defenseman. The duo has been solid when he’s been deployed with Middleton. The Wild have outscored opponents 5-3 with them on the ice and had an expected goals percentage of 60.3%. Furthermore, both are 6-foot-3 and capable of withstanding heavy forechecking and winning puck battles in the corners. 

    Bogosian and Middleton have not been as effective. They’ve outscored opponents 5-4 but had only 47.33% expected goals. Still, Bogosian brings some versatility as a righty. He also possesses a heavy shot that can strike fear into opponents and buy some space high in the offensive zone. 

    Putting Faber and Chisholm together would be an ideal second pairing with enough versatility to defend and attack against various play styles. Ideally deployed against the opposition’s second and third lines, they can use their elite skating to move themselves out of trouble and control possession. They can keep forecheckers on their heels because of their ability to skate pucks out of the zone and counter quickly after corralling loose pucks or turnovers. 

    In the 43 minutes Faber and Chisholm have played together, the Wild have had a 52.63% expected goals percentage and outshot opponents 25-24. Opponents have outscored them 3-0, but the stats suggest that might turn around with time. Furthermore, neither player has had the strongest output lately when the Wild have deployed them with different partners. Solidifying them as a pair would allow them time to discover how to capitalize on their complementary skills. 

    Faber and Chisholm are strong skaters and puck movers. Chisholm has more natural offensive instincts and has been increasingly improving as a defender, even if he leaves something to be desired in this area. Faber is an intelligent player who excels at everything. His size and ability to play a variety of styles mean he can provide a steadying presence defensively and combine with Chisholm in the offensive zone to interchange up high to create shooting lanes, move pucks high-to-low and laterally, and give opposing wingers nightmares. 

    Brodin is back, and the Wild’s defense is finally whole. With the pieces in the right place, it can be versatile enough to match up well against anyone. A regular lineup with pairings of Spurgeon-Brodin, Faber-Chisholm, and Middleton-Merrill/Bogosian gives the team its best chance at playoff success.

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    Just now, SkolWild73 said:

    I do not think getting Elias is more valuable than retaining Faber for the future of the team, but it is close.  Trading away a 22-year-old defenseman who played the 6th most minutes for a Dman in the NHL last year as a rookie and had the second best 5 on 5 plus minus out of those players behind only Drew Doughty does not make sense to me.  I know you do not think he is a top Dman, but obviously our coaches do, or he would not be getting all the minutes that he does.  If we were to trade Faber, it would have to be for someone better than Elias in my opinion.

    who played the 6th most minutes for a Dman in the NHL last year as a rookie 

    minutes played is my least favorite stat, but i suppose if you go at that then him and Suter would be the best two D's in the league. but even so - Faber will loose out on minutes / pts over the course of  next few years - it will be taken by Zeev and may be by Jiri too

    If we were to trade Faber, it would have to be for someone better than Elias in my opinion.

    why do we have such a low opinion of Elias? Because Miller said so? I mean the guy was crushing it. Yes, he has a down year, but he is a machine. I am not sure what more you want for Faber. 

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    5 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    He is 6'2", but only 176 pounds and wins 45% of his faceoffs this year. I do not watch enough of the Canucks games to know if he plays a heavy game or not.

    the guy had 102 and 89 pts before this year. that is a huge output. we have only seen that from kap here. there was hate on eichel too, yet vegas grabbed him and probably don't regret. same could be said re Elias

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    I've missed a great discussion, will get into it later. But 1st, I really like having Brodin back, however, if you look at it objectively, Brodin has either been caught in speed or has lost a 1/2 step. He is still an elite skater, but he has gotten beat a couple of times which is more than ever. I agree that he can play very effectively in the top 4 until 37, but he really needs a little more strength to get through the years better. 

    I cannot accept this from Neil: 

    Quote

    The Wild seem to have already settled on Brodin and Spurgeon, a duo that fits the bill perfectly. In the 161 minutes of hockey the two have played together this season, they’ve been primarily matched against each team’s best players.

    I believe that Faber-Middleton is the top pairing right now and Brodin-Spurgeon is the #2 pairing. It depends upon who the Wild play, however. For instance, Brodin/Spurgeon would be out vs. McDavid's line, but I believe Faber/Middleton would be out against a more physical line. That's the beauty of the pairings, they do different things well. 

    Both Faber and Brodin have elite skating ability and can take a wider gap to shut down opponents. This helps out Middleton and Spurgeon a little bit as their gaps are just a little thinner. The facts are this, Faber/Middleton will do better vs. top lines in the playoffs. Spurgeon has struggled in the playoffs and Brodin has too if that opponent is St. Louis. 

    I look forward to seeing this:

    Middleton-Faber, Brodin-Spurgeon, Buium/Jiricek. Buium, I believe, will be our 3rd elite skating defender which would be tops in the league. 

    I believe that Spurgy will end up being the odd man out, here and that we will stay with the younger core in the group. I would probably look at moving Brodin with Jiricek and maybe think Chisholm and Buium together even though Buium is LHS, but I think Chisholm will be traded out. 

    What do we do with Bogosian? Aging defender with size will likely be a 7th D if he agrees to it, or I think Guerin will find him a home as a 3rd pair. Merrill and Dermott will be free to walk. 

    Guerin and Brackett built this team from the goal out (The Wall) and I'm pretty sure their vision will incorporate the young defense and we'll deal with the forwards later. He's got some very exciting young guys to fill those spots.

    If it were me, longterm, I would see the D corps looking like Middleton, Faber, Brodin, Jiricek, Buium, Spacek, Lambos. This is set. The Wall is the netminder and hopefully we can retain Goose for a decent price. This is the engine that will make the team and system run. 

    Has MNfan lost his mind? Where is Kaprizov in this scenario? He's resigned as he sees the elite defense behind him and some exciting forwards with him. But that's the topic of a different post.

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    19 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    He is 6'2", but only 176 pounds and wins 45% of his faceoffs this year. I do not watch enough of the Canucks games to know if he plays a heavy game or not.

    Pettersson does not, he is strictly a finesse player who gets owned in traffic.

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    8 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    who played the 6th most minutes for a Dman in the NHL last year as a rookie 

    minutes played is my least favorite stat, but i suppose if you go at that then him and Suter would be the best two D's in the league. but even so - Faber will loose out on minutes / pts over the course of  next few years - it will be taken by Zeev and may be by Jiri too

    If we were to trade Faber, it would have to be for someone better than Elias in my opinion.

    why do we have such a low opinion of Elias? Because Miller said so? I mean the guy was crushing it. Yes, he has a down year, but he is a machine. I am not sure what more you want for Faber. 

    You are putting words in my mouth.  I never said I had a low opinion of Eilas, I just would not trade Faber for him is all I said.

    I also didn't say anything about Faber being the best Dman in the league.  Only pointed out that for a guy that you don't believe is a top dman, he sure get a lot of minutes.  If you happen to look up the top minutes played for defensemen this year, you will notice that many of them are the top defensemen in the league. And Suter no longer plays the most minutes in league.  When he did back in the early and mid-teens he was considered one of the top defensemen.

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    16 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    why do we have such a low opinion of Elias? Because Miller said so? I mean the guy was crushing it. Yes, he has a down year, but he is a machine. I am not sure what more you want for Faber. 

    I love Pettersson and think he would be a great acquisition for us. He will not help with a heavy game, but he will add flash for Kaprizov. I'd love to obtain him, but am not willing to give up Faber in the process. I could give up Rossi. 

    Minute munching defenders are very important and we'll have 3 in Brodin, Faber and Buium. Does that make one expendable? Maybe, but you know the old saying: "you can never have too many good defenders." 

    I think you underestimate the value of Faber. It's not just the points, but he has an "it" factor you do not find often in defenders. He's got that clutch gene. Why has he got so many points? People thought he'd be a Brodin clone coming out of college. Because he's playing with better players and his skill level came alive with the better players. His numbers are down because of Kaprizov's absence and Boldy can't score anymore. Unfortunately, intended apples just don't count when shots are fired over the net.

    But, when Faber has to push play, he pushes with the best in the league and his goals aren't making 6-1 games 7-1, they are typically important goals. From a Vancouver standpoint, though, could you see a Faber-Hughes pairing? Wow!

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    15 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Faber is not physical enough and not fast enough to be given the distinction of being the best defender on the team. on top of that his production has taken a dip and will continue to do so, once the promised phenom - zeev - arrives. this is where a smart GM comes in and evaluates the situation without any bias and acts. We know that Zeev will replace Faber on food chain as early as next year. Brodin is still plays as though he is 22 (he is our Nick L).  Jiri will be top 4 and Midds will have to be too. This will drive Faber value down (i suppose you can add Spurge here - but i think he stays - and gets his number retired and spend time with his 6 kids). So Faber is your asset. You dangle him for Elias. 

    I see the logic here, and it is solid if the goal is getting Pettersson. Yes, I think Vancouver would do such a deal. However, I value Faber above Pettersson and would desperately want a different way of obtaining Pettersson. I think Pettersson would be right at home on this team and probably even be more successful. He is a great center for Kaprizov. 

    But the young defense is going to be our engine on this team, and Faber is the lead dog in that. Faber is one of those elite defenders that is big enough and needs to gain some strength again this offseason. He improved it last offseason and will need more this offseason. He can push offensive play just like an offensive D-man but also has the elite defensive side to his game. As an RHS, you don't trade those guys, and I think we'll be in good hands with Faber/Jiricek/Spacek manning the right side. 

    Now, from the Vancouver side, they just traded for a defender from Pittsburgh and I believe resigned him for 6 years. They filled their hole. I think his name is also Pettersson 😀

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    7 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I love Pettersson and think he would be a great acquisition for us. He will not help with a heavy game, but he will add flash for Kaprizov. I'd love to obtain him, but am not willing to give up Faber in the process. I could give up Rossi. 

    Minute munching defenders are very important and we'll have 3 in Brodin, Faber and Buium. Does that make one expendable? Maybe, but you know the old saying: "you can never have too many good defenders." 

    I think you underestimate the value of Faber. It's not just the points, but he has an "it" factor you do not find often in defenders. He's got that clutch gene. Why has he got so many points? People thought he'd be a Brodin clone coming out of college. Because he's playing with better players and his skill level came alive with the better players. His numbers are down because of Kaprizov's absence and Boldy can't score anymore. Unfortunately, intended apples just don't count when shots are fired over the net.

    But, when Faber has to push play, he pushes with the best in the league and his goals aren't making 6-1 games 7-1, they are typically important goals. From a Vancouver standpoint, though, could you see a Faber-Hughes pairing? Wow!

    but you know the old saying: "you can never have too many good defenders" - yeah if you plan to defend ALL the time. i think a much more preferred statement is "you can never have too many 100 point players"

    I think you underestimate the value of Faber. It's not just the points, but he has an "it" factor you do not find often in defenders.

    Faber can log a ton of minutes - yes. He is who he is with scoring topping around 40 pts. He is not an all-star but is close to it. What i am hearing is that Zeev is ALL of that. And i argue that a better route would be to parlay our D depth into what we lack - offense. No one will give us anything for Chissy, Spurge or Midds. But they will for Faber. 

    There is another point to consider - how much will this impact Kaprizov. To play with Elias is something that he may not say no to. 

    It would be a win - win for both teams i feel.

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    12 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

    Understand your guys opinion but I don’t think he is top pair guy or even a second pair guy.  I think Billy overpaid just watch him against the big west teams.  He gets pushed around and is scared of contact when he has the puck.  He is to small for what we need and we need forwards and his contract could be used to bring us a great center.

    I don't think this is about homers, I just don't really see what you're seeing here. Faber is an elite skater with an excellent stick. He doesn't necessarily need to take the body hard, just like Brodin doesn't. But, unlike Brodin, Faber will take it when it's absolutely necessary. I think he gets pushed around a lot less than Spurgeon or Dumba did when they were top 4 and he's only going to get stronger in the next 2 years. I do not believe he is "scared" of contact, but contact isn't the main part of his game and he does an excellent job of stripping forwards from the puck without it. 

    I love a defender in the Middleton class or Jiricek class who pounds people, but Faber is a thoroughbred who just doesn't need to hammer people. He's still got some learning to do, as I've seen him walked a couple of times by the shifty MacKinnon and McDavid, but he recovered from them moderately well. 

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    5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I see the logic here, and it is solid if the goal is getting Pettersson. Yes, I think Vancouver would do such a deal. However, I value Faber above Pettersson and would desperately want a different way of obtaining Pettersson. I think Pettersson would be right at home on this team and probably even be more successful. He is a great center for Kaprizov. 

    But the young defense is going to be our engine on this team, and Faber is the lead dog in that. Faber is one of those elite defenders that is big enough and needs to gain some strength again this offseason. He improved it last offseason and will need more this offseason. He can push offensive play just like an offensive D-man but also has the elite defensive side to his game. As an RHS, you don't trade those guys, and I think we'll be in good hands with Faber/Jiricek/Spacek manning the right side. 

    Now, from the Vancouver side, they just traded for a defender from Pittsburgh and I believe resigned him for 6 years. They filled their hole. I think his name is also Pettersson 😀

    These type of opportunities to land game changers do not pop up often. It sure sounds like Elias will likely be traded. You need to have an offer for him and Faber is a good one. We can fill the hole that he leaves behind (Jiri, Spurge, Brodin, Zeev, Midds, Prospects, FA). There is a bigger hole on offense. Look at our team without Kap. It's bad. Petterssen changes that. And allows Boldy/Rossi/Yurov to relax a bit (heck even Kap can get someone that plays to his level) - might be good for Boldy for sure to ease the pressure. 

    To me - Faber is NOT elite. He logs heavy minutes, can put up points here and there, but he is essentially a Suter 2.0. When you have Zeev coming (who is what - a Hughes/Makar type?) and still have 4-5 good years of Brodin, another ageless one in Spurge and Jiricek.....you deal.

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    3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    And i argue that a better route would be to parlay our D depth into what we lack - offense. No one will give us anything for Chissy, Spurge or Midds. But they will for Faber. 

    There is another point to consider - how much will this impact Kaprizov. To play with Elias is something that he may not say no to. 

    It would be a win - win for both teams i feel.

    Is there a better way of obtaining Pettersson or a player of choice?

    Here's what we know, it's not happening until the offseason. We've got plenty of elite Swedes on this team, elite enough to be at the 4 nations tourney playing and perhaps even doing a marketing campaign to bring Pettersson to NA Sweden. What if he sees this as a good destination? Pettersson is in complete control of his destination, sporting a full NMC until the end of his contract. 

    Can we get this done with draft picks and prospects? I would have to say if Vancouver is willing to part with Pettersson, it likely means they are caving and blowing it up. Pettersson is in year 1 of an 8 year deal. 

    You are right in the fact that we'd be dealing from a position of strength on the matter. Yet, I love that defensive strength. Could we get Vancouver to retain? They've traded out Miller, do they think they've solved their problem? They had to retain nothing on that deal too, so that helped them.

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    4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    To me - Faber is NOT elite. He logs heavy minutes, can put up points here and there, but he is essentially a Suter 2.0.

    I think he's way more than that. Suter played it safe. The only similarity is that they both can log minutes. Faber is far superior offensively. Suter got lots of gimme 2nd assists off the PP. Faber is willing to drive play where Suter could not. Suter never had that extra gear that Faber's got. 

    But, I think Pettersson is far less available than you do. He's all over the national boards as Vancouver had to offload either he or Miller. Now that Miller's gone, I think Pettersson stays. But, if he were available......we'd have the cap room for him in the summer.

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    2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Is there a better way of obtaining Pettersson or a player of choice?

    Here's what we know, it's not happening until the offseason. We've got plenty of elite Swedes on this team, elite enough to be at the 4 nations tourney playing and perhaps even doing a marketing campaign to bring Pettersson to NA Sweden. What if he sees this as a good destination? Pettersson is in complete control of his destination, sporting a full NMC until the end of his contract. 

     

     

    I would have to say if Vancouver is willing to part with Pettersson, it likely means they are caving and blowing it up. Pettersson is in year 1 of an 8 year deal. 

    You are right in the fact that we'd be dealing from a position of strength on the matter. Yet, I love that defensive strength. Could we get Vancouver to retain? They've traded out Miller, do they think they've solved their problem? They had to retain nothing on that deal too, so that helped them.

    Is there a better way of obtaining Pettersson or a player of choice? 

    maybe Boldy (plus more) but i'd rather keep Boldy if we get Elias

    Here's what we know, it's not happening until the offseason. We've got plenty of elite Swedes on this team

    Yes, offseason def. The second part - we have ZERO Elite swedes. an Elite is two way force. Sadly Ek is not that.

    What if he sees this as a good destination? 

    i think he wants to win - he sees that we are aggressive and also want to win now - and he plays with kaprizov (and sure Ek and Brodin are here for the Swedish happiness) But this won't be done by picks alone. I think Van needs proven talent. 

    Remember - in this scenario we also freeing 8.5 mil. yes we are getting Elias but we are at 3 mm plus. So it's not our only spending. In theory we can also get another big signee. Dreams.

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    22 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I see the logic here, and it is solid if the goal is getting Pettersson. Yes, I think Vancouver would do such a deal. However, I value Faber above Pettersson and would desperately want a different way of obtaining Pettersson. I think Pettersson would be right at home on this team and probably even be more successful. He is a great center for Kaprizov. 

    But the young defense is going to be our engine on this team, and Faber is the lead dog in that. Faber is one of those elite defenders that is big enough and needs to gain some strength again this offseason. He improved it last offseason and will need more this offseason. He can push offensive play just like an offensive D-man but also has the elite defensive side to his game. As an RHS, you don't trade those guys, and I think we'll be in good hands with Faber/Jiricek/Spacek manning the right side. 

    Now, from the Vancouver side, they just traded for a defender from Pittsburgh and I believe resigned him for 6 years. They filled their hole. I think his name is also Pettersson 😀

    They did.  Marcus Pettersson through 2030 at 5.5mil.  They also have Filip Hronek through 2031 at 7.25 mil and will be resigning Quinn Hughes I am sure in two years for north of 12 mil.  Doubt they have room for another at 8.5 mil. DMan.

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    1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

    so you going to play Faber and Zeev together ....what will instill fear in every opponent! 

    brodin is 31 and still skates better than EVERY one on the team. he is your best D and if he needs more load management in the future - bump him down and play zeev with jiricek. 

    Aren't you the guy suggesting that any prospect not in the NHL hasn't shown they can do anything in the NHL, but you now want to immediately pair 2 rookie defensemen together and put Yurov on the top line?

    Faber leads the Wild in average TOI, defensemen points, and is among the team leaders in +/-.

    I had considered Buium and Jiricek together, but wasn't sure that playing 2 rookies together was the best for either of them early in their careers. That could eventually become a top pairing, but ultimately I felt like the 2 guys who routinely lead their team in TOI could be the pairing to lead the Wild in TOI.

    Honestly though, it was more driven by wanting Jiriceck to play with Brodin as that seemed like the best option for Jiricek next year. I'm not suggesting Faber/Buium would lead the Wild in TOI by a lot as all 3 of the defensive pairings I listed could play 20+ minutes any given night and I'd be very comfortable with that. Obviously, they would mix things up during PK(with a D man in the box) or due to injury, so they would try plenty of other options as well. It was just a starting point to see how good our D pairings might look next year.

    I certainly understand the appeal of Elias Petterson. In some ways, it would be kind of like trading Faber back for a better version of Fiala. Trading Faber away would leave a hole in the defense in the not too distant future.

    Right now, they have cap space to add a high end forward in free agency. If they traded Faber for a forward, it would reverse that need given that Spurgeon is 36 next year and may not hold up for too many more full seasons. I can see the appeal, but have no idea if Petterson is the type of player Guerin thinks is needed for the Wild. Perhaps there are more favorable options that would be better fits if the Wild are trading out a top pairing RHD.

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    17 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I don't think this is about homers, I just don't really see what you're seeing here. Faber is an elite skater with an excellent stick. He doesn't necessarily need to take the body hard, just like Brodin doesn't. But, unlike Brodin, Faber will take it when it's absolutely necessary. I think he gets pushed around a lot less than Spurgeon or Dumba did when they were top 4 and he's only going to get stronger in the next 2 years. I do not believe he is "scared" of contact, but contact isn't the main part of his game and he does an excellent job of stripping forwards from the puck without it. 

    I love a defender in the Middleton class or Jiricek class who pounds people, but Faber is a thoroughbred who just doesn't need to hammer people. He's still got some learning to do, as I've seen him walked a couple of times by the shifty MacKinnon and McDavid, but he recovered from them moderately well. 

    Understand your opinion but I don’t see Faber as elite.  He does struggle against more physical West teams as does Spurgeon.  That’s a big reason we get beat by those teams as they have no issue getting to the front of our next.  If Faber was to be making 4-5mm next year that would be fine but for 8.5mm we can do much better.  We need top end forwards bad and Faber, Boldy and Rossi being traded are our best ways of getting that.  None of them are top end.  And people will say they are young but when has that ever worked out for this franchise.  We don’t develop any young players well.  

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    4 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I think he's way more than that. Suter played it safe. The only similarity is that they both can log minutes. Faber is far superior offensively. Suter got lots of gimme 2nd assists off the PP. Faber is willing to drive play where Suter could not. Suter never had that extra gear that Faber's got. 

    But, I think Pettersson is far less available than you do. He's all over the national boards as Vancouver had to offload either he or Miller. Now that Miller's gone, I think Pettersson stays. But, if he were available......we'd have the cap room for him in the summer.

    Suter was an All-Star and considered for Norris at one time and I thought he was very good that year. That's a bit more than Faber has done. As for the stats - Suter wasn't too shaby. Seems just as productive as Faber. 

    • 13/14 43 pts (8 goals)
    • 14/15 38 pts (2 goals)
    • 15/16 51 pts (8 goals)
    • 16/17 40 pts (9 goals)
    • 17/18 51 pts  (6 goals)
    • 18/19 47 pts (7 goals)
    • 19/20 48 pts (8 goals)
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    4 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

    We need top end forwards bad and Faber, Boldy and Rossi being traded are our best ways of getting that.  None of them are top end.  And people will say they are young but when has that ever worked out for this franchise.  We don’t develop any young players well.

    Do you have names to fill in for these players? Pettersson is the main topic here, but who else would you be looking at for Boldy and Rossi?

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    9 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Yes, offseason def. The second part - we have ZERO Elite swedes. an Elite is two way force. Sadly Ek is not that.

    I was considering elite as a nation. Anyone on the Swedish national team, I would consider elite in that conversation. So, yeah, Goose would be too. Euros think differently and see the world a bit differently. Playing with their peers, I think, may have more importance to them and we know.

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    6 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Suter was an All-Star and considered for Norris at one time and I thought he was very good that year. That's a bit more than Faber has done. As for the stats - Suter wasn't too shaby. Seems just as productive as Faber. 

    • 13/14 43 pts (8 goals)
    • 14/15 38 pts (2 goals)
    • 15/16 51 pts (8 goals)
    • 16/17 40 pts (9 goals)
    • 17/18 51 pts  (6 goals)
    • 18/19 47 pts (7 goals)
    • 19/20 48 pts (8 goals)

    It looks as productive but the style was very different. Of course, these stats are after he came to us as an UFA which would probably be 4 years older than the current Faber. Suter rarely carried up the ice fully. When he did, he typically dumped it in instead of driving. It's hard to believe he had that many goals!

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    3 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Aren't you the guy suggesting that any prospect not in the NHL hasn't shown they can do anything in the NHL, but you now want to immediately pair 2 rookie defensemen together and put Yurov on the top line?

    Faber leads the Wild in average TOI, defensemen points, and is among the team leaders in +/-.

    I had considered Buium and Jiricek together, but wasn't sure that playing 2 rookies together was the best for either of them early in their careers. That could eventually become a top pairing, but ultimately I felt like the 2 guys who routinely lead their team in TOI could be the pairing to lead the Wild in TOI.

    Honestly though, it was more driven by wanting Jiriceck to play with Brodin as that seemed like the best option for Jiricek next year. I'm not suggesting Faber/Buium would lead the Wild in TOI by a lot as all 3 of the defensive pairings I listed could play 20+ minutes any given night and I'd be very comfortable with that. Obviously, they would mix things up during PK(with a D man in the box) or due to injury, so they would try plenty of other options as well. It was just a starting point to see how good our D pairings might look next year.

    I certainly understand the appeal of Elias Petterson. In some ways, it would be kind of like trading Faber back for a better version of Fiala. Trading Faber away would leave a hole in the defense in the not too distant future.

    Right now, they have cap space to add a high end forward in free agency. If they traded Faber for a forward, it would reverse that need given that Spurgeon is 36 next year and may not hold up for too many more full seasons. I can see the appeal, but have no idea if Petterson is the type of player Guerin thinks is needed for the Wild. Perhaps there are more favorable options that would be better fits if the Wild are trading out a top pairing RHD.

     Aren't you the guy suggesting that any prospect not in the NHL hasn't shown they can do anything in the NHL, but you now want to immediately pair 2 rookie defensemen together and put Yurov on the top line?

    you can pair Zeev with Brodin to ease him in. we have enough Depth to help him. and it sounds like he is ready by all account. i am ready to see what he's got.

    Faber leads the Wild in average TOI, defensemen points, and is among the team leaders in +/-.

    yes he plays a lot. and is on PP. he is also not physical, not fast and doesn't have elite skill. he game also slipped - you can counter that with stats sure - but game is played on the ice and little nuances of the game is impossible to pick up by a stat. he has not shown that he is elite. and before his stock dims - i think you act and sell high.

    Trading Faber away would leave a hole in the defense in the not too distant future. 

    yes but we can work thru that. our hole on offense is much bigger. Elias would solve that. 

    Right now, they have cap space to add a high end forward in free agency.

    sure we can sign Brock Nelson. game changer? NO. There is a difference between Brock Nelson and Elias Petterssen. Imagine saying this to Kaprizov

    "Comrade, guess who we've signed? Brock Nelson" yikes......It would sound a bit better to say "Comrade, how would you like to play with Elias?" oh fun!

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    1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Is there a better way of obtaining Pettersson or a player of choice? 

    maybe Boldy (plus more) but i'd rather keep Boldy if we get Elias

    Here's what we know, it's not happening until the offseason. We've got plenty of elite Swedes on this team

    Yes, offseason def. The second part - we have ZERO Elite swedes. an Elite is two way force. Sadly Ek is not that.

    What if he sees this as a good destination? 

    i think he wants to win - he sees that we are aggressive and also want to win now - and he plays with kaprizov (and sure Ek and Brodin are here for the Swedish happiness) But this won't be done by picks alone. I think Van needs proven talent. 

    Remember - in this scenario we also freeing 8.5 mil. yes we are getting Elias but we are at 3 mm plus. So it's not our only spending. In theory we can also get another big signee. Dreams.

    Would not mind getting him either, but with all the contracts that Vancouver already has on defense, Marcus Pettersson through 2030 at 5.5mil, Filip Hronek through 2031 at 7.25 mil and having to resign Quinn Hughes after next year, probably in the 12-13 mil range, I doubt they would trade for Faber.  It would be nice to get him, but if we don't, let me try and ease your mind on what we might already have.

    Elias's stat for his age 23 season were 80 games, 32g, 32a, 64 points, +1 rating, 22g and 19 assists in 5 on 5. 

    Marco Rossi's age 23 season so far 54 games, 18g, 28a, +14 rating, 13g, 23a in 5 on 5.  Rossi is on pace this year for 27g, 42a, 69 points this year.  Maybe Rossi can make the leap and become the same type of player as Elias next year on smaller contract that would allow us to get someone else.

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    12 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Aren't you the guy suggesting that any prospect not in the NHL hasn't shown they can do anything in the NHL, but you now want to immediately pair 2 rookie defensemen together and put Yurov on the top line?

    Huck, ODC is changing his mind on some of this stuff. Can't you see the wheels churning? 😉

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