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  • The Wild Are Starting To Look Like the Team Bill Guerin Blew Up


    Image courtesy of Jerome Miron-USA Today Sports
    Tony Abbott

     

    When Bill Guerin took over the Minnesota Wild in 2019, he inherited a club that was long on experience and short on success. Led by long-time veterans like Mikko Koivu, Zach Parise, Ryan Suter, Eric Staal, and Devan Dubnyk, the Wild’s roster had an average age of 29.4 years old. That was tied for second in the NHL. The group hadn’t won a playoff series in five seasons. Critics around the State of Hockey called it a “country club” atmosphere.

    It did not take long for Guerin to figure out how to handle the situation. He blew that roster up. Within a year, Staal, Koivu, and Dubnyk were out, with Guerin hustling to navigate the former’s no-trade clause in dumping him. Sentiment be damned. In less than two years, out goes Parise and Suter in bold moves with ramifications that will still be felt over the next two seasons.

    Was it audacious? Yes. It’s hard to imagine Chuck Fletcher kicking so many guys to the curb. A world where Fletcher would let Koivu play games for the Columbus Blue Jackets instead of retiring as a Wild is unfathomable.

    But was it all necessary? Yes. An aging club with a rapidly closing window and a limited ceiling to begin with is no recipe for winning in the NHL. And as Guerin memorably said, “It’s about winning.”

    It’s that kind of brash bravado that got fans on board with a new vision for the Wild. The Wild are done playing it safe? They’re sick of the first-round losses and want to build a contender? A youth movement is on the way? Sign us up.

    Two weeks before the start of Year 5 of the Bill Guerin Experience and nine months before the Wild could finally start having some cap room with $24 million in cap space, that bold new vision became much murkier. So murky, in fact, that this team is looking a lot like the one he blew up. And if it is, it’s staying that way for a while.

    The Wild are old. Sure, they have young faces in prominent places. Kirill Kaprizov and Joel Eriksson Ek are both 26. Matt Boldy is 22, with Calen Addison (23), Marco Rossi (22), and Brock Faber (21) hoping to take big roles. But there’s no denying the Wild’s age. 

    Here are the top-ten oldest rosters entering the season:

    1) Pittsburgh Penguins: 30.7
    2) Washington Capitals: 29.5
    3) Minnesota Wild 28.9
    4) Dallas Stars: 28.8
    T-5) Toronto Maple Leafs: 28.6
    T-5) Seattle Kraken: 28.6
    T-5) New York Islanders: 28.6
    T-8) Colorado Avalanche: 28.5
    T-8) Carolina Hurricanes: 28.5
    10) New York Rangers: 28.4

    Just like the team Guerin took over, his Wild enter the season as one of the three oldest teams in the league. The rest of that list falls into one of four bins. There’s Pittsburgh and Washington, whose mission statement is Screw it, we’re getting as many miles out of our aging star players as possible. There’s the Kraken, which was all but forced to have an aging team due to their expansion draft rules. Then there are the Stars, Leafs, Avalanche, Hurricanes, and Rangers, all who fancy themselves Cup Contenders.

    Then there’s the “Just Plain Old” bucket, where the Wild and the Islanders sit.

    It was hard to care about the team’s average age before this past weekend, given their circumstances. Minnesota needed bargains to tide them over to a deep prospect pool and the Parise/Suter shackles to loosen. Being old was a necessary evil, or so we thought.

    After signing Mats Zuccarello and Marcus Foligno to contracts that take them to their late 30s, the Guerin and the Wild front office have committed to being an old team. Their security blankets are likely to form a new type of shackle.

    Minnesota has 14 players under contract next season, slated to have an average age of 29.1 – and that’s after 35-year-old Patrick Maroon joins 38-year-olds Marc-Andre Fleury and Alex Goligoski in coming off the books. In 2025-26, the mythical year when $13 million of dead cap vanishes, the Wild are locked into nine contracts with an average age of 30.9 and as much job security as the old Old Core enjoyed.

    Seriously, look at who will be under contract in  2025-26.

    • Mats Zuccarello: Age-38 season; pending UFA; $4.125M AAV; Full No-Move Clause
    • Jared Spurgeon: Age-36 season; one year to UFA; $7.575M* AAV; 10-team No-Trade Clause
    • Marcus Foligno: Age-34 season; two years to UFA; $4M* AAV; Full No-Move Clause
    • Jonas Brodin: Age-32 season; two years to UFA; $6M AAV; Zero trade protection
    • Freddy Gaudreau: Age-32 season; two years to UFA; $2.1 million; 15-team No-Trade Clause

    And no, this doesn’t account for the Ryan Hartman (32 in 2025-26) extension that appears destined to happen.

    Obviously, prospects will start taking some spots, which might help bring that average age down a touch. But remember: Everyone else on this team is older than they’ve ever been. And now they’re even older. By the time these deals start coming off the books, Kaprizov and Eriksson Ek will be 29, with Kaprizov currently slated for UFA status. Boldy will be in Year 4 of his contract. Many ELCs – from Rossi and Faber (and more) – will expire.

    That’s assuming, of course, that the Wild won’t find themselves with a similar problem as they did in the Koivu/Parise/Suter days. The ones where young players didn’t get prominent spots in the lineup because aging, entrenched veterans with a lot of job security are soaking up vital roles. 

    The team is showing little urgency to turn their roster over to their deep prospect pool in hopes of icing a younger, faster team with more upside. Instead, Guerin seems satisfied with his group and close-knit locker room culture, despite this team being 0-for-4 in postseason series on his watch. “I get [the criticisms],” he told the media Friday when explaining why he committed to paying Foligno $19.1 million over the next five years. “But you know what? I like our team with Marcus Foligno way better than without him.”

    It can not be ignored that Guerin has watched Foligno for 23 playoff games, where he’s only scored one goal and six points. Instead of being bold, Guerin’s habitually settled for what he knows, perhaps for the fear of the unknown. “Teams would step up for somebody like Marcus,” said Guerin. “We didn’t want to see it get to that.”

    You do that for a half-dozen or more veterans on the brink of their 30s, and you get a roster that’s going to be contending for the oldest in the league over the next several years. So close to the finish line of being able to turn over the team to a new look and feel, Guerin’s front office is delivering a team that threatens to look similar to the aging team he blew up.

    Now, one with a superstar in Kirill Kaprizov, and which seems to like each other? Sure. But the Wild are sticking to the status quo, hoping the same old team won’t deliver the same old results.

    *An earlier version misprinted the AAV of Jared Spurgeon and Marcus Foligno. We regret the error.

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    1 minute ago, MNCountryLife said:

    I'm curious, does anyone know if any/all these contracts have a no move clause?  If things do go bad on a contract how hard will it be to trade out of them... or are we truly stuck with more dead cap?  

    Yes, NMC 2yrs Zucci/Moose on both and Moose M NTC last 2 yrs, we're stuck

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    2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I expect that the intensity and urgency in Des Moines will be up 3 notches this season!

    I agree...With the backlog of players. If anyone in IA still thinks they can coast through and have a chance... those thoughts are gone.  BG has made a statement that you must prove you belong in the NHL.  No gimmes.  Produce are get passed by.

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    2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I think Huck hits the word we've all been looking for right on the head. AHL players have got to "force" their way on to the roster. Opportunities will not be given, they will be earned, and when you get that opportunity, you'd better grab hold of it and not let it go! Don't come up with a cup of coffee mentality, you'd better come up with the idea that you're not going back!

    Perhaps this is one lesson in being mentally tough? I guess they'd better learn now!

    You have to "force" your way onto the roster, but you get to stay on it as long as you can make it to the first round of the playoffs? If you're going to work with that philosophy on one end, it should go the same way for the veterans or eventually, that system breaks. 

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    Just now, Tony Abbott said:

    You have to "force" your way onto the roster, but you get to stay on it as long as you can make it to the first round of the playoffs?

    If everyone was healthy entering the playoffs last season, then I think it would be a lot easier to suggest that they need to turn to another approach. Dallas was a very good roster missing just 1 of their top players.  The Wild were missing a lot more than the Stars were due to injuries.

    It hasn't been established that this roster, with everyone healthy, cannot make it beyond round 1. KK97 and JEE healthy is a huge difference. Boldy is still developing and this roster might be better than expected. Johansson will likely be gone after next season if not sooner, and someone else will need to take his place.

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    55 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    I'll assume this Foligno stat is from the lightning in a bottle GREEF season, where even Greenway contributed.

    I can certainly understand why someone might think that, but Foligno's scoring pace was higher in 2019-2021 than it was in 21-22. He didn't play close to 80 games either of those seasons(nobody did in 2020), so the final stats look less impressive, but Foligno had 3 solid even strength goal-scoring seasons.

    His best goal scoring pace per 60 minutes 5v5 was in 20-21, at 1.19 goals/60.

    JEE and Kaprizov finished ahead of him in even strength goal scoring per 60 that season, but Foligno was consistently solid for 3 years prior to last season.

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    So the biggest tell of all moves made by the Wild flow through the articles, comments and lips of Michael Russo.  READ THE ATHLETIC article on this Moose Move....he was being nice in his reply as he has to maintain his position with the team and payers, BUT basically called bullshit on BG!

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    Russo mainly just said Guerin better be right. There was a different note that I liked from The Athletic:

    Quote

    Mason Shaw appears to be a member of the Wild in every aspect other than a signed contract.

    His nameplate is up in his regular spot in the dressing room at TRIA Rink. He’s rehabbing his torn ACL before and after team workouts, in Wild gear. Shaw hung out all summer in town with Wild teammates, plans to live here this season and hopes to join them on the ice as soon as he can.

    And one note that didn't sound good, but could have been worse...

    Quote

     

    In a practice last week, Rossi was working on a power play when he fell into the skate of Duhaime. He left the ice bleeding profusely and needed 17 stitches on the chin and 10 inside his mouth to close it up.

    “Unlucky but lucky,” Rossi said. “It could have been much worse.”

     

    Edited by Imyourhuckleberry
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    Great article Tony. To add to this:

    1 If Hartman signed Wild will have the same top 8 players (plus Rossi who is average at best) for the next 3 years. Can Wild be contender with these personnel. To me absolutely not

    2. For young players to get in it should be a room. From the 9 above at least 80% of them none tradable (because of the contracts structure or money paid). And nine of them will be send to Iowa or sitting . So the only option to make room for young players is to move on of the guys above to the 4th line but this will not be done for the same reasons stated above.

    so the best scenario for the young players either do not sign with Wild at any cost (fee did this) or in case of Walker and Beckman wait one more year and force a trade 

    have to admit - never like BG from day one, put few post before which resonates with Tony article 

     

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    27 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Russo mainly just said Guerin better be right. 

    If you read Russo or listen to his podcasts and he was on board he would be glowing and elaborating as to how it would work out for the Wild, it's been political crickets from him.

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    1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    I can certainly understand why someone might think that, but Foligno's scoring pace was higher in 2019-2021 than it was in 21-22. He didn't play close to 80 games either of those seasons(nobody did in 2020), so the final stats look less impressive, but Foligno had 3 solid even strength goal-scoring seasons.

    His best goal scoring pace per 60 minutes 5v5 was in 20-21, at 1.19 goals/60.

    JEE and Kaprizov finished ahead of him in even strength goal scoring per 60 that season, but Foligno was consistently solid for 3 years prior to last season.

    Different line, different assignment, now he has to be a wing to Rossi and keep up with Freddy for four more years?

    Don't see it, at best he's a fourth liner with or equal to Maroon 

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    1 minute ago, vonlonster67 said:

    Different line, different assignment, now he has to be a wing to Rossi and keep up with Freddy for four more years?

    JEE and Greenway were better passers back then than Rossi & Gaudreau?

    I believe Foligno could move to the 4th line if he's with the Wild for that 4th year, but I suspect he will be entrenched as a major part of the 3rd line for a while.

     

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    3 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    JEE and Greenway were better passers back then than Rossi & Gaudreau?

    I believe Foligno could move to the 4th line if he's with the Wild for that 4th year, but I suspect he will be entrenched as a major part of the 3rd line for a while.

     

    Rossi is a machine in distribution, to a fault. He'll have to hope Moose is timely and can finish. I'm not worried about Freddy Hockey 

     

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    I don't see an issue with the current roster since most intriguing prospects are still one or more years away from actually being ready for the NHL.

    Khusnutdinov and Yurov still have to prove they can be consistent in the KHL this year and next season they might need some time to adjust to North America. 

    Beckman and Walker will get their chances this season once the first injuries occur.

    I don't expect Khaira, Johansson and Maroon to stick around for too long, so there are three roster spots up for grabs next year or the year after.

    In D Goose and Merrill will be the odd men out. Addison is on probation and will get the chance to stick around. So there are at least two if not three roster spots open in the next few years.

    The prospects will get their chances, I am sure. Once the cap penalties are off the books there might be some roster movement anyway.

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    32 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

    Rossi is a machine in distribution, to a fault. He'll have to hope Moose is timely and can finish. I'm not worried about Freddy Hockey 

    So, you cannot see him finishing well with better passers?

    Not sure what that sad reaction above was about. I was asking if you thought Greenway and Eriksson-Ek were better passers since you don't see Foligno scoring.

    If Rossi and Gaudreau are better passers, collectively than the guys Foligno had been playing with when he was previously effective in even strength scoring, and Foligno has historically been a good finisher, feel free to explain why you don't see him scoring a decent amount.

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    24 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    So, you cannot see him finishing well with better passers?

    Not sure what that sad reaction above was about. I was asking if you thought Greenway and Eriksson-Ek were better passers since you don't see Foligno scoring.

    If Rossi and Gaudreau are better passers, collectively than the guys Foligno had been playing with when he was previously effective in even strength scoring, and Foligno has historically been a good finisher, feel free to explain why you don't see him scoring a decent amount.

    Sad if we are stuck with him on our 3rd line. I don't think Moose has the wheels up the ice to keep up with Rossi/Freddy. He has been a finisher, but feel like the opportunity will be over by the time he hits net front.

    In regard to Ek/Greenway they were opportunists and not driving the offense, that is when Greenway was participating. More a checking line.

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    In my opinion, the best thing we could do with Hartman is trading him. When I look at all the dumb penalties he is taking and his face off winning percentage I sometimes really get frustrated with the fact that he is centering KK. He is a passenger on that line and there a other options which would also work.

    Maybe there is a desperate team that would be willing to give up a good prospect and or pick for him.

    This would free up the 1C spot for Rossi. Then we could give Walker a shot at becoming a  NHL regular next to Gaudreau and Foligno. He deserves it after his season in the A and the outstanding training camp.

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    5 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    What other Guerin positives am i missing?  I'd give him credit for a culture overhaul, but the Foligno contract makes me think that  has swung too far the other way.  Billy might be drinking his own kool-aid in culture dept

    I think you could add the Hartman deal, nailing down signings of Kaprizov, Ek, and Boldy. Fred was a NHL minimum guy who won multiple games for the Wild last season. Getting Talbot, Reaves, Fleury or other playoff help and trading Greenway for a 2nd were all pretty good. Replacement Maroon is solid. Grabbing Walker out of college was pretty okay, but I agree there have been a few stinkers. Goligoski was given a nice deal from the player's perspective but I don't think it really hurts the team.

    At some point you have to play hockey with a team. Does it need to be all hired guns to get the best result or can it be a group like the Wild have now. Are veterans superior in the playoffs cause the Wild are a playoff team?

    I think we should hold back on the pitchforks and torches especially after what we endured under previous GMs and the current Wild having been near the top of the Central for the last couple years. 

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    Just a quick comparison. Zucci scored the same as Pavelski and Kopitar. More than Jeff Carter and Patrice Bergeron. 

    Foligno was hurt, we're told but is pretty important to the Wild per Guerin's assessment. His contract is something the Wild feel comfortable with so that just tells me Guerin believes he can have a playoff team down 10+ million off the cap, so 4M AAV to Folignon isn't gonna be a problem the Wild can't handle if it doesn't age well. 

    It just doesn't look bad to me. Hartman too, I think will get a nice deal that fans won't like out of the gate, but my guess is that Guerin had gentleman's deals with some guys. Kaprizov and Boldy needed to get signed and Guerin appears to have a plan and schedule. We shall see.

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    7 minutes ago, Protec said:

    ant to the Wild per Guerin's assessment. His contract is something the Wild feel comfortable with so that just tells me Guerin believes he can have a playoff team down 10+ million off the cap, so 4M AAV to Foligno isn't gonna be a problem the Wild can't handle if it doesn't age well. 

     

    Foligno: Years 1/2 NMC and years 3/4 M-NTC (15 team no-trade list)? If you could show me a comparable on Foligno? There isn't one.

    Just a bad contract and half of a salary of a player ($8M) we will need come playoff time in '24-'25 & '25-'26!

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    1 hour ago, Protec said:

    I think we should hold back on the pitchforks and torches especially after what we endured under previous GMs and the current Wild having been near the top of the Central for the last couple years. 

    I like dunking on Fletcher, but I'm not sure what Guerin's done to be appreciably better than Fletcher. To me, keeping these old contracts on the books isn't incredibly different than selling every second-round pick.

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    5 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

    I like dunking on Fletcher, but I'm not sure what Guerin's done to be appreciably better than Fletcher. To me, keeping these old contracts on the books isn't incredibly different than selling every second-round pick.

    No way Fletcher stays cap compliant under the constraints BG has done and pulls deals and players out of his hats at playoff time at little to no cost in draft prospects.

    IF we judge BG by these contracts to be fair, really the Foligno contract is the only question mark. Zucci was needed and Hartzy will be a reasonable signing, blocking no one as he can slide to the fourth line when the Russians get here.

     

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    I will agree in that I also wanted to see Foligno's 3M AAV go away. I thought a new player could have filled in. Does that make this raise and extension a bad deal? Maybe if I'm comparing to my opinion or expectation. I'm saying we'll have to see what happens. Foligno is a unique case, not totally cut and dry. To us on the outside, it might seem like the Wild could just let Foligno go and Guerin could have. It looks like Guerin has made the call to let this group stay together awhile longer. Guerin talked about what these players would have been able to get as UFAs and they didn't want it to go that far. Yes, it's a little like the Goligoski deal where it looks like an overpay but technically they could buy Foligno out after a few years if he got career ending diarreah or decided to become an actor. The Wild had Rask for 4M, Duby for 4M, and Tyler Ennis for 4M. I just don't really think the Foligno contract can be qualified as a massive fail this early. Everybody wants to use last year and forget about GREEF because that was TWO years ago, it's just weird to me.

    The Wild have a bunch of prospects and no toxic prima donnas. The GM now played the game and commands way more respect than Fenton or Fletcher. His moves overall pulled the Wild out of the gutter where they were becoming like an Ottawa, Buffalo, or Edmonton of the recent dumpster-fire-zone with dysfunction everywhere. Now the last three years the Wild are in the playoffs and near the top of the division with star players under good contracts like Ek, Kaprizov, and Boldy. To say they're just like the team before is incorrect.

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    7 minutes ago, Protec said:

    Now the last three years the Wild are in the playoffs and near the top of the division with star players under good contracts like Ek, Kaprizov, and Boldy. To say they're just like the team before is incorrect.

    They're not, the team before won a playoff series!

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