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  • It's Safe To Ignore Any Joel Eriksson Ek Trade Rumors


    Image courtesy of Matt Krohn-USA TODAY Sports
    Tony Abbott

    The Minnesota Wild's 5-0 win over the New York Islanders couldn't stop them from entering Tuesday stuck firmly in 13th place in the Western Conference. Forget the fact that they're six points out of a playoff spot; they need to make up a three-point gap to even sit in 12th place. With less than two months to go until the trade deadline, Minnesota is a clear seller, at least to everyone but their GM

    Or, they would be, except they're in the unenviable position of having nothing to sell. The Wild roster is, in a word, unmovable. Jared Spurgeon, Jonas Brodin, Marc-Andre Fleury, Marcus Johansson, Alex Goligoski, and Ryan Hartman all have full no-move clauses, meaning the Wild can't trade them or send them to the minors without their permission. Marcus Johansson also has a full no-trade clause, meaning he can veto any trade.

    Beyond that, many other Wild veterans also have a large degree of control over their destinies. Zach Bogosian has a 21-team no-trade list. Patrick Maroon can veto trades to 16 teams, Freddy Gaudreau has 15 teams on his no-trade list, and Mats Zuccarello has a 10-team no-trade list.

    So when the sharks are circling the reeling Wild, it makes sense for them to pursue the big-ticket but movable names. Top centers are also in short supply and high demand. It shouldn't be a surprise, then, to see people throw Joel Eriksson Ek's out there.

    At least it is if you listen to Vancouver-based radio, where any Eriksson Ek rumors have seemed to originate. The Vancouver Canucks are on top of the Western Conference with 61 points and are looking to shore up their center depth. Anyone in Minnesota knows just how much value he'd provide the Canucks.

    If he were for sale, that is. Thankfully, Elliotte Friedman squashed these rumors on Monday's episode of his 32 Thoughts podcast. "Eriksson Ek -- I don't buy that one," Friedman said bluntly about him being a trade target. "I don't see any reason why Minnesota would do that. It would really surprise me."

    Same. 

    There are no untouchable players in the NHL, of course. Connor McDavid's probably getting traded tomorrow if the Chicago Blackhawks offer Connor Bedard's Entry-Level Contract salary straight-up for him. But sometimes you have to look at trade proposals and go, come on, that's not happening. Within the realistic possibilities for an Eriksson Ek trade, such a move would likely go down as a blunder.

    The reasons Eriksson Ek would be an attractive trade candidate are the exact same reasons it would be foolish for Minnesota to trade him. First, there's his play on the ice. Even having cooled down with just one goal and seven points in his last 16 games before Monday's two-goal outburst, Eriksson Ek is still on pace for a 32-goal, 57-point season. He has a very good shot at breaking the 30-goal barrier for the first time in his career and the 60-point mark for the second year in a row.

    Teams covet that kind of offensive punch from a top-six center in general. Still, when you add his defense, you suddenly have a player who is Minnesota's answer to Ryan O'Reilly or Sean Couturier. In terms of Evolving-Hockey's Standings Points Above Replacement, his all-around value makes him a top-25 center in the NHL and a top-50 forward dating back to the 2020-21 season. His 85 goals are also tied with Matt Duchene and Claude Giroux for 54th among forwards over that time, besting the likes of top-line centers Tomas Hertl, Tim Stutzle, Anze Kopitar, and Nick Suzuki.

    You can argue over whether he's a true No. 1 center on a contender or not. But wherever you fall on that, he's a top-six center on a bonafide Stanley Cup contender, especially given how he's shown up in the playoffs lately. (When he isn't putting his body on the line to gut out a broken leg, that is.) 

    Under normal circumstances, even the dire ones the Wild face, there are only three good reasons to trade such a player:

    1. The player is reaching the end of a contract you don't expect to extend.
    2. The player will be far outside their prime by the next time your team can expect to compete.
    3. The player wants out.

    As far as we can tell, Eriksson Ek meets none of these criteria. Eriksson Ek doesn't only have five years remaining on his contract after this season. He has five years remaining that are a miracle to have on the books. Eriksson Ek's cap hit is just $5.25 million for a top-six, borderline top-line center. That's absurd. We live in a world where Mark Scheifele, Bo Horvat, and Pierre-Luc Dubois -- three players at or below Eriksson Ek's level -- make $8.5 million against the cap. Meanwhile, the Wild have Eriksson Ek locked up for less money than the Detroit Red Wings gave Andrew Copp two summers ago.

    Eriksson Ek turns 27 in two weeks, meaning his contract will carry him through age 32. Generally speaking, people believe Minnesota's window to compete starts once they free up the worst of their cap hell in 2025-26, Eriksson Ek's age-29 season. Ek won't be in his absolute prime. But big, strong, two-way centers at Eriksson Ek's level have a decent track record. Kopitar is still a point-per-game player at 36, O'Reilly's still going strong at 32, and even an injury that kept Couturier out for two full seasons can't stop him from having a productive age-31 season. 

    Locally, Eriksson Ek's predecessor, Mikko Koivu, gave Minnesota strong seasons through age 34. It feels safe for a team to take their chances with Eriksson Ek in his late 20s to early 30s, at least at that price point.

    Especially when you remember how hard it is to replace a player like Eriksson Ek. If it were easy, Minnesota likely wouldn't have taken a swing on Charlie Stramel in the 2023 Draft, hoping to uncover the elusive big, strong, two-way center. Even with signs of life lately, Minnesota's not expecting Stramel to hold down that Eriksson Ek spot anytime soon.

    What if the Wild got a prospect back for Eriksson Ek? Say Vancouver's top potential and former teammate of Minnesota first-rounder Liam Öhgren, Jonathan Lekkerimäki. Are they really setting themselves up for more future success?

    It's easy to focus on financial savings with ELCs, but team control is as big a deal as a league-mandated deflated salary for a prospect's first NHL seasons. Any prospect Minnesota would get back would be under team control for seven years. That's just two more years than the Wild have with Eriksson Ek right now. And you have a good idea of what you're getting out of those five years with Eriksson Ek. Someone like Lekkerimäki is a complete wild card by comparison.

    So if you keep seeing Eriksson Ek's name crop up in trade rumors, especially among radio hosts who aren't super-plugged in with teams around the NHL, you can breathe a sigh of relief and move on with your day. The reason you can do it is very simple: It doesn't make any sense for the Wild to move on from Eriksson Ek.

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    Unless Vancouver throws in a Top 6 plus a 1st, or multiple 2nds, I'm not even going to entertain the conversation.  EEK isn't the "best" player or the best "name" player.  However, he is the "most important" Wild player.  Other than Faber, there is no one that is as untouchable for what he does as EEK.  It's like the Guerin quote about Foligno.  "If we get rid of him, we'll spend years trying to get someone like him." x100.

    Edited by Citizen Strife
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    Yeah that Ek contract really is a steal (IBGIT ;))

    No wonder other teams are having pipe dreams about adding him to their club lol. The guy is a key piece to a future Cup run for us! 

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    This is the 1st I'm hearing about an Ek trade. Isn't it ironic that we/I used to speculate on Pettersson coming over here? 

    So, what is the "fair" compensation that these radio guys are thinking? Dangling Lekkerimaki? AND! 

    Ek is a very important piece to the puzzle for us, and he's on a very team friendly contract. But, he's not untouchable. If Vancouver thinks that the 1st+prospect+roster player is going to work here, I'd say they're really mistaken. 

    I would suggest that we look at the offersheet compensation, and look up the top compensation. Why the top? Because Ek's contract is so good. Immediately against comparables, it saves you $3m. And this is something that we would consider an asset. 

    So, the equivalent of 4 1st round picks. Lekkerimaki was #15 overall in '22. Tom Willander, a rhs defender is #11 overall in '23. They will be drafting in the high 20s this year, and who knows about '25? 

    If we're considering another article, this type of trade would certainly be a tank. However, I see Ek as being part of the solution, not a problem. We don't have anyone in the organization who can replicate what he brings. 

    I'd have to conclude a hard no on this one.

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    Don't worry guys, I'm told Charlie Stramel is going to be an Ek replacement.

    Fiala was worthless to us because everyone knows 25 year old PPG wingers are a dime a dozen, which is why we should also trade Boldy, the 22 year old 0.8 PPG winger.

    Know what you can't replace?  Grit.

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    Billy did his presser yesterday talking about a playoff push. Good luck with that.  However what I found interesting is the fact that none of the media asked him about the investigations . In an article I read yesterday they talked about how all the wild media people know exactly what happened because they all are around the team but they are covering for Billy.  Acting like nothing happened  when they know what did.      
             Sounds like the good ole boy country club people talk about. He has been investigated by two teams during his time in management and no one asks him about this recent one.  What type of leader is Bill? Why does he get protected from his own mis doing ? Obviously there is no accountability at the top of this organization so why would there be any at bottom. I can’t think of any other gm with two  investigations against them . . He was found to do nothing wrong in both but the fact he was even investigated doesn’t say much for his leadership. 
        I don’t think Bill is the gm for this team anymore. His end season presser last year, stupid extensions this year, the fact every year they bring in ahlers to help with depth an the ahlers can’t play and he’s bad at developing prospects .He doesn’t do anything unless it has ties to his Pittsburgh or New Jersey  friends . It seems to me he is more interested in helping craig grift off the minny fans than putting a Stanley cup caliber product on the ice. Sweden was all about selling jerseys world wide. They played second fiddle to all the other teams. They had bad hotels, ice time, game time   Locker room size , and basically treated as second class. Why would you embarrass yourself with that treatment. To sell Craig’s jerseys . 
         Bill is Fletcher and in 5 more years we will see the waste of time bills tenure was! 

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    2 hours ago, Dean said:

    In an article I read yesterday they talked about how all the wild media people know exactly what happened because they all are around the team but they are covering for Billy.  Acting like nothing happened  when they know what did.

    Could it be that it is really nothing? You talk about 2 investigations as if he were guilty just for having the investigations. You never used to have investigations like this, but now HR has to do it because there was a complaint.

    2 hours ago, Dean said:

    I don’t think Bill is the gm for this team anymore. His end season presser last year, stupid extensions this year, the fact every year they bring in ahlers to help with depth an the ahlers can’t play and he’s bad at developing prospects .

    Ok, let's say that OCL let's Billy go after the season. Then what? Are you rooting for a particular GM to come in? As unlikely as it is that this would happen (given Guerin's contract extension which would be fully payable) what makes you think we'd get someone better? And, we are still too soon to know about Guerin's development strategy. His 1st draft players are just now graduating and coming onto the team. 

    I get your frustration over the way things are going, but based upon an objective appraisal of this team, it is in much better shape than Fletcher's year 4. True, Fletcher had his prospects playing in the NHL by then, but it could be argued they came up too soon. They got rushed because of the Parise/Suter signings and were maybe a year or 2 early. I think it was Zucker who took the brunt of this with his continued travel up and down I-35.

    So, Dean, what would be your plan to fix this? Name some names! We can start with Guerin has been fired on April 23rd, 2024 for missing the playoffs this year. And, for argument's sake, let's just say we secured #8 in the draft.

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    1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Could it be that it is really nothing? You talk about 2 investigations as if he were guilty just for having the investigations. You never used to have investigations like this, but now HR has to do it because there was a complaint.

    Ok, let's say that OCL let's Billy go after the season. Then what? Are you rooting for a particular GM to come in? As unlikely as it is that this would happen (given Guerin's contract extension which would be fully payable) what makes you think we'd get someone better? And, we are still too soon to know about Guerin's development strategy. His 1st draft players are just now graduating and coming onto the team. 

    I get your frustration over the way things are going, but based upon an objective appraisal of this team, it is in much better shape than Fletcher's year 4. True, Fletcher had his prospects playing in the NHL by then, but it could be argued they came up too soon. They got rushed because of the Parise/Suter signings and were maybe a year or 2 early. I think it was Zucker who took the brunt of this with his continued travel up and down I-35.

    So, Dean, what would be your plan to fix this? Name some names! We can start with Guerin has been fired on April 23rd, 2024 for missing the playoffs this year. And, for argument's sake, let's just say we secured #8 in the draft.

    We see his uncontrollable anger in the Press Mn Fan. It can only be worse behind closed doors. Again it's not a big leap to believe the accusations. Leo fired Fenton after less than a year. I am sure he's just avoiding eating crow with his protection of BG. I would bet that BG is on a short lease though.

    It's not the fans job to know who a GM successor would be. Few would follow the up and comers in the management field. Leo and his staff should be on top of it but we know he's missed continuously with his picks.

    I agree, I doubt BG gets fired even if they miss the playoffs which is likely. But, it doesn't mean he shouldn't be. We'll, as fans, just have to suffer the effects of another bad ownership in the state of MN. Maybe he can get it right eventually, but I really don't think he cares all that much as long as the seats are filled.

     

     

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    4 hours ago, Dean said:

     
         Bill is Fletcher and in 5 more years we will see the waste of time bills tenure was! 

    That's the worst of it. By the time it shows up we'll have wasted another 1/2 decade and have to start all over again and who knows if they'll get it right with the next one...

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    I am pretty sure a fair assessment of Guerin's time in MN should include the whole everything from the awful position the team was in when he arrived. The turn for the better. Two hundred point seasons and player extensions & acquisitions. Now the poor season with multiple handicaps & injuries. 

    Some people wanna make a mountain out of the behind the scenes stuff with almost no proof of anything so that is really weird. What is that was the way you were treated, would that be cool? Aren't there two sides to every story? 

    Personally, I don't care either way cause NHL hockey isn't where I look for truth, inspiration, or wholeness in life anyway. Just saying, if you're gonna weigh in on NHL GMs, it's probably best to be capable of looking at the big picture and pontificating honestly. 

    How did Dallas get Heiskinen or Colorado get Makar not by having an amazing season every time. Take a glance around the NHL and compare. MN isn't that bad off and Guerin has a personality, what's so shocking or terrible about that? 

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    36 minutes ago, Protec said:

    I am pretty sure a fair assessment of Guerin's time in MN should include the whole everything from the awful position the team was in when he arrived. The turn for the better. Two hundred point seasons and player extensions & acquisitions. Now the poor season with multiple handicaps & injuries. 

    Some people wanna make a mountain out of the behind the scenes stuff with almost no proof of anything so that is really weird. What is that was the way you were treated, would that be cool? Aren't there two sides to every story? 

    Personally, I don't care either way cause NHL hockey isn't where I look for truth, inspiration, or wholeness in life anyway. Just saying, if you're gonna weigh in on NHL GMs, it's probably best to be capable of looking at the big picture and pontificating honestly. 

    How did Dallas get Heiskinen or Colorado get Makar not by having an amazing season every time. Take a glance around the NHL and compare. MN isn't that bad off and Guerin has a personality, what's so shocking or terrible about that? 

    Well, that's just it Protec. I am taking everything into consideration. I would say it's you who isn't. Like I told Mn Fan, it's quite apparent publicly that Guerin has issues with his temper/patience. To ignore that and not come to the conclusion that it's likely worse behind the scenes is not looking at the big picture. He's gotten rid of players who were locker room guys because of his temper and arrogance. He's dissed players publicly because of his temper. I'm not sure how anyone can look at that behavior and honestly come to the conclusion it doesn't effect the team as a whole and it's beneficial in any way.

    Guerin came in trying to change the character of the team, yet his own character should be questioned also. Can you change the culture to positivity when you get rid of good players who are locker room attributes because of your own 'childish' anger?

    I'm sure people are sick of hearing me say it, but I would put the teams success on Deano way more than I would BG. Time will tell if I'm right.

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    53 minutes ago, Protec said:

    Some people wanna make a mountain out of the behind the scenes stuff with almost no proof of anything so that is really weird. What is that was the way you were treated, would that be cool? Aren't there two sides to every story? 

    This is more-or-less the same thing that happened with Fenton?

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    I am starting to get curious what will make people happy here anymore. The calls for Dean to get fired were loud, he gets fired, but now we don't like the new guy even though he has been here for a handful of games. We wanted a new GM, then we got one, now the team isn't doing well so he must be fired. He has an attitude and can't hide his anger. Would we rather have a GM who is nonchalant when the team is hot wet garbage? I am willing to bet there would be complaining then too. Posted above the calls to fire him but "its not the fans job to find a new GM", well in turn is it the fans job to call for his head because he is under investigation where nothing has come of it yet? (Depending on what is found or proven this can change, not on suspicion)  Or because he is mad? I just don't get it I guess. Yes the team is doing poorly, but 15 mil is dead cap, a litany of injuries to 2 of top 3 dmen, top offensive players have missed time as well as our number 1 goalie. This should fit the "we need to tank" narrative to get a standout player, yet, unhappy we are doing poorly. Also an owner who is worried about money..... shocked, I am shocked I tell you.

    GMBG I think should be evaluated 2 years AFTER the buyouts, his draft stock and ability to gm will truly be seen in that time. If its a complete and total failure (Cup champs is not the only way to judge this) then yeah, evaluation is needed. If we get a top 10 pick and hit huge, awesome, if its a miss it happens, show me how many top 10 picks actually end up being top 10 talent after 5 years. Patience is hard but dang, its a game we watch for entertainment and the constant unhappy nature with every single choice and decision and circumstance along with moving of goal posts to stay angry, its insane. 

    We are all here as giant wild fans, rain shine and snow. We all want to go undefeated and win 10 cups in a row but there is a reason none of us are GM's or coaches or players, because we would all be absolutely terrible at it end of the day. So lets just enjoy the ride a bit and take a breath. First horrible season in a while, its going to happen. 

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    We are all under qualified and highly critical and basically full of shit really.  We are given a medium to write shit down here and it usually is just a bunch of shit but it's fun and as long as we don't take ourselves too seriously... no big deal.

    Although... yeah the constant drumbeat seems a little contrived.

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    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    I am starting to get curious what will make people happy here anymore. The calls for Dean to get fired were loud, he gets fired, but now we don't like the new guy even though he has been here for a handful of games. We wanted a new GM, then we got one, now the team isn't doing well so he must be fired. He has an attitude and can't hide his anger. Would we rather have a GM who is nonchalant when the team is hot wet garbage? I am willing to bet there would be complaining then too. Posted above the calls to fire him but "its not the fans job to find a new GM", well in turn is it the fans job to call for his head because he is under investigation where nothing has come of it yet? (Depending on what is found or proven this can change, not on suspicion)  Or because he is mad? I just don't get it I guess. Yes the team is doing poorly, but 15 mil is dead cap, a litany of injuries to 2 of top 3 dmen, top offensive players have missed time as well as our number 1 goalie. This should fit the "we need to tank" narrative to get a standout player, yet, unhappy we are doing poorly. Also an owner who is worried about money..... shocked, I am shocked I tell you.

    GMBG I think should be evaluated 2 years AFTER the buyouts, his draft stock and ability to gm will truly be seen in that time. If its a complete and total failure (Cup champs is not the only way to judge this) then yeah, evaluation is needed. If we get a top 10 pick and hit huge, awesome, if its a miss it happens, show me how many top 10 picks actually end up being top 10 talent after 5 years. Patience is hard but dang, its a game we watch for entertainment and the constant unhappy nature with every single choice and decision and circumstance along with moving of goal posts to stay angry, its insane. 

    We are all here as giant wild fans, rain shine and snow. We all want to go undefeated and win 10 cups in a row but there is a reason none of us are GM's or coaches or players, because we would all be absolutely terrible at it end of the day. So lets just enjoy the ride a bit and take a breath. First horrible season in a while, its going to happen. 

    8  mill,15 mill for Deano was an excuse. Now it's a fact and an obstacle. Those are things that get me vocal. Be consistent or I'll call you on it. Deano can't win a playoff series but Hynes is the guy that can even though he failed to get his team to the playoffs for 5 years and then gets a shot in Nashville and can't get passed the 1'st round, but he's the guy. Be consistent. 

    I never complained about Deano, Fletcher, or Fenton, but I can see the obvious failures of the new GM and I'll call them out. I just don't get how anyone can excuse running your mouth about a player as you actively try to trade him. Just can't see how you get so pissed at a player and/or his agent that you take the first offer that comes along just to get him off the team. If those aren't 'in your face' red flags I don't know what is. And then the investigation for abuse and there's no proof? Come on man, the proof is right in front of you

    That being said, you'll see me on the game threads cheering them on. I want to win as much as anyone, and I'd rather be wrong than right on this. But I'm always gonna call it as I see it, and I think it's almost impossible not to see it. 

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    8 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    I just don't get how anyone can excuse running your mouth about a player as you actively try to trade him. Just can't see how you get so pissed at a player and/or his agent that you take the first offer that comes along just to get him off the team. If those aren't 'in your face' red flags I don't know what is. And then the investigation for abuse and there's no proof? Come on man, the proof is right in front of you

    I'm in WTPB's camp here.  I'm not rooting for BG to fail and I'm not trolling the org. but WTPB has a concise growing list of "can't look the other way" issues here. 

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    11 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    8  mill,15 mill for Deano was an excuse. Now it's a fact and an obstacle. Those are things that get me vocal. Be consistent or I'll call you on it. Deano can't win a playoff series but Hynes is the guy that can even though he failed to get his team to the playoffs for 5 years and then gets a shot in Nashville and can't get passed the 1'st round, but he's the guy. Be consistent. 

    I never complained about Deano, Fletcher, or Fenton, but I can see the obvious failures of the new GM and I'll call them out. I just don't get how anyone can excuse running your mouth about a player as you actively try to trade him. Just can't see how you get so pissed at a player and/or his agent that you take the first offer that comes along just to get him off the team. If those aren't 'in your face' red flags I don't know what is. And then the investigation for abuse and there's no proof? Come on man, the proof is right in front of you

    That being said, you'll see me on the game threads cheering them on. I want to win as much as anyone, and I'd rather be wrong than right on this. But I'm always gonna call it as I see it, and I think it's almost impossible not to see it. 

    Well who did you want over Hynes? Please fill us in on who the better option was at that exact point. To me, nobody has cup cred until they have cup cred. Nobody has major playoff success until they have playoff success, and those coaches don't seem to get fired very often  for a weird reason. How as the money for Dean an excuse but now just an obstacle? Obstacles can be overcome, please tell me how missing that much cap space can be over come and I will happily support you for a GM job, because most can't figure that out.

    What obvious failures do you see? Please call them out and it can be discussed. Tactful running mouth? No. Failure? I think how those trades have both turned out seems pretty good so far, unless you think Gus < Talbot and that Faber kid seems so far pretty solid, we will see with Ohgren (also Yurov because one can argue that have 2 firsts that draft let you take the, at then risky pick of Yurov due to his nationality.)

    Also what proof? Should be more than allegations since that is not proof. When sent to Wild management they deemed it a "non fireable offense" so I guess you must have been involved in the investigations and have more information than all of us on the outside.

    I am curious what you are going to call out that is almost impossible to not see, besides allegations which aren't proof, an excuse of 8 and 15 mil dead cap for Dean now not being a viable excuse for anyone else (even though Dean did not have near the injury issue they currently have been dealing with), not being able to get a Stanley Cup winning coach mid season.

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    30 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

    Also what proof? Should be more than allegations since that is not proof. When sent to Wild management they deemed it a "non fireable offense" so I guess you must have been involved in the investigations and have more information than all of us on the outside.

    The league is going to error on the side of respecting an acting GM's reputation.  If the offense is not actionable by the league at this point then great for BG.  But think about it like your Ryan Hartman and your list of fines and personal meeting with DPOS continues to grow.  Eventually Ryan no longer gets the privilege of getting the 'benefit of the doubt'.  In this fans opinion BG has used all his get out of jail free cards.  From here forward he's got to keep his nose clean (ie no more investigations AND no more PR blunders into live microphones) AND the on-ice product has to begin trending upward as soon as next season (this season is done).  That means the can't miss prospects (at least one, but maybe it needs to be two) have to join the big club next year and make a contribution at the level of Rossi's contribution this season.

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    This is where teams leave their fans when something happens and they don't come clean on it right away. An incident took place and a minimum amount of information is released and then the whole thing gets deep sixed.  It's a bad optic for the team and leads to all sorts of speculation.  Guerin's presser the other night was the first time I have seen or heard from him since the investigation. The zero questions about the investigation were telling to me. Russo and the rest must have got their scripts to follow and don't dare try to color outside the lines. Billy is doing nothing to claim his innocence in anything so what are we left to speculate? To me this is the organization showing their ass to the fans. Don't ask questions just keep the cash flow going. 

    I don't like Guerin for a number of reasons and didn't from the start. He's done nothing to change my feelings and if anything I continue to lose more respect for him and the organization as a whole. 

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    57 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

    Well who did you want over Hynes? Please fill us in on who the better option was at that exact point.

    Deano, I've been VERY vocal about that. Deano's firing according to Guerin was because you can't trade the players. Very cliche' and ridiculously stupid for a GM to say out loud.

     

    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    How as the money for Dean an excuse but now just an obstacle?

    When Deano was coaching I argued constantly with posters who said Deano having a roster 8 and 15 million short of most other teams was no excuse. As soon as Hynes came in those same posters were crying how can he succeed were 15 million short on cap. Again, all I ask for is consistency. If it isn't an excuse for Deano, why is it an excuse for Hynes?

     

    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    Obstacles can be overcome, please tell me how missing that much cap space can be over come and I will happily support you for a GM job, because most can't figure that out.

    I think you missed my meaning. Above should explain it better.

     

    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    What obvious failures do you see? Please call them out and it can be discussed.

    I've already done that. Here you go again. Do successful GM's call out their players and bad mouth them publicly when they are trying to trade them. As I've said before colossally stupid.

    Do successful GM's get pissed at locker room favorite players and take the first offer just to get them off the team? And there are more examples. To tie this into the investigations the pattern is BG's temper. How could that not logically transfer to the FO? I think it's quite obvious it didn't stop in the public eye but likely intensified behind closed doors.

    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    I think how those trades have both turned out seems pretty good so far, unless you think Gus < Talbot and that Faber kid seems so far pretty solid, we will see with Ohgren (also Yurov because one can argue that have 2 firsts that draft let you take the, at then risky pick of Yurov due to his nationality.)

    I've always maintained those trades have worked out fairly well to date. The problem I have is how those trades came about. It's a bad way to success and really not sustainable. I've said many times BG stumbled on to his success and those trades demonstrate that pretty well.

     

    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    Also what proof? Should be more than allegations since that is not proof. When sent to Wild management they deemed it a "non fireable offense" so I guess you must have been involved in the investigations and have more information than all of us on the outside.

    Smart ass. Lol. The proof is if BG is losing his temper and control publicly he likely is more apt to do that behind the scenes. It's just a logical conclusion, not proof of anything.

     

    1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

    I am curious what you are going to call out that is almost impossible to not see, besides allegations which aren't proof, an excuse of 8 and 15 mil dead cap for Dean now not being a viable excuse for anyone else (even though Dean did not have near the injury issue they currently have been dealing with), not being able to get a Stanley Cup winning coach mid season.

    What's impossible to not see is that BG is very likely guilty of employee abuses behind the scenes. I think I've already explained why fairly well previously. You misinterpret my meaning with the Cap. The common theme among posters was that not winning a playoff series  being 8 and then 15 mill behind other teams caps was NO EXCUSE for Deano, but since the Hynes hire it's routinely used as an excuse for Hynes to fail to make the playoffs.

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    I think I've been pretty consistent. I supported Deano until I found out that after gaining minimal points on an Eastern road trip, Deano gave the players 2 games off and just practice 1 hour on the 3rd day. This while the PK was trending at 60% and the PP didn't look so good either. That is simply wrong.

    It was also fairly evident that his voice was no longer being listened to, not that it really mattered. He was more of a "leader of men" type of coach and left the Xs & Os to someone else. But, not practicing immediately had me calling for his head.

    As for Guerin, he is a competitor. Is there any reason this season why he might be grumpier than others? He takes losses hard. He's probably a wonderful GM to work for when on a 10 game winning streak. Personally, I like that competitive nature. And if all it is is yelling at some people because he's pissed off, my background says deal with it.

    Also, why would the results of these investigations come out publicly? I can't imagine anyone employed right now would want their personnel file to come out publicly! Just because he's in the public's eye, does not mean that these things come out, they shouldn't. There should be confidential stuff that stays behind closed doors. And, no, we as fans do not need to know. 

    Also, while we're on the GM subject, my proposal up top was a legit proposal to Dean. Willy, you are right that we, as fans, do not normally follow management types. However, if you're going to replace a GM, it's a 2 part process. The easy part is letting the current one go, the hard part is naming the replacement. I find it difficult to fire a GM after his roster has overperformed for 3 seasons and now is having a tough one. He hasn't been there long enough to know if his guys have panned out or not, but, the cupboards were empty when he got there and they are now quite full. 

    As for the buyouts. They are not an excuse to winning. I've been consistent in that stance. But, for this to work, you have to find players who will overperform their cap hits, fill in plenty with ELC players and have very good health luck. So far, in the past 3 years, until the playoffs, we have had overperforming players and some pretty good health luck. We have not used the ELC players to their full potential and have instead chosen to marinate them and develop them. The past 3 years of making the playoffs has bought the GM time to push back the transition of the young guys so they could get better. It can be done this way, but everything has to hit. 

    As for Hynes being tapped to coach the team, he was on Guerin's available short list. A lot of people will say what about X or what about Y? It's a fair question, but a lot of the guys we think are not available are still under contract from other teams. Some of them are under substantial contracts from other teams. They are not free agents, and you have to ask for permission to interview them. Usually, a coaching change comes without the coach knowing it (though he can probably feel it coming). When you start making noise to other GMs about the availability of their ex coach, sometimes that kind of thing gets leaked. Guerin hates that probably more than other GMs. So, essentially, guys who are in the A are unavailable. Guys recently fired are unavailable. Assistants for other teams are unavailable. So there were very few real available guys who could actually do it. One route was the interim internal change. The other is an external guy. You'd be looking like Edmonton did, at jrs. coaches for a bunch of external guys. 

    Sorry about the length, lots of topics to cover......though this is probably not my longest post ever 😁

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    2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Also, why would the results of these investigations come out publicly? I can't imagine anyone employed right now would want their personnel file to come out publicly! Just because he's in the public's eye, does not mean that these things come out, they shouldn't. There should be confidential stuff that stays behind closed doors. And, no, we as fans do not need to know. 

    They are asking for $300 million of public money, I'd like to know what kind of organization it'd be going to. 

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    1 minute ago, Tony Abbott said:

    They are asking for $300 million of public money, I'd like to know what kind of organization it'd be going to. 

    I hadn't considered that aspect, and to me, that's a lot of money that really doesn't need to be spent. I'd be frugal if I were St. Paul or the state.

    Since I'm an out of towner, just who owns the X? If it is the city or state, then the remodeling of the place would be mostly on them. But, then is it necessary? Maybe some stuff is but I doubt $300m is.

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