Article: Marc-Andre Fleury Is the Flower That Won't Wilt

[Brevan Bane]

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[Imyourhuckleberry]

Fleury has amassed three Stanley Cup Championships (2009, 2016, 2017).

When you look back at his cup years, he had zero playoff wins one of those seasons. The Penguins were carried to the cup by Matt Murray and great offense. The following year, Murray had nearly as many playoff wins(7) as Fleury(9), and did it in 5 fewer starts. Matt Murray got every win in the Stanley Cup finals for the Penguins in back to back cup years.

Fleury was the main goalie for 1 Stanley Cup finals(2009) where his team won. He was generally an above average goalie, but not consistently.

Fleury has been a slightly below average starter for the Wild. He's had some really solid games, but plenty of weaker performances as well. He's had a really solid career, but he seemed to be wilting a bit late last year, with just 1 win in his last 5 starts before the playoff game where he looked overmatched. He's no longer a strong starting goalie, but should be a solid backup.

[mnfaninnc]

I like having Fleury in the quality backup role. He is still good enough to relieve the starts, but, his ability to mentor has a really good track record. Honestly, Fleury, should he choose, is likely auditioning as a goalie coach this year.

A thought hit me when Brevan started mentioning his stats from last year, and I wouldn't even begin to know how to look it up. Here's my thought: I wonder how many of the goals Fleury gave up were with Addison on the ice?

My theory is that an Addison/Fleury on ice combo is not a good chemistry. Fleury had trouble locking down pucks, Addison was brutal in clearing the crease, that is a recipe for disaster. Maybe Addison was less brutal with Goose2 in net?

Then, the next progression of ideas hit. Could Goose2 and The Wall compensate for Addison's deficiencies and we could take advantage of his offensive gifts? It doesn't mean that Addison gets a pass, he still needs dramatic improvement, but, maybe it's not as terrible as it seems. 

[Up North Guy]

I think a lot of the Wild's goalie success next season will depend on Gus being in the kind of shape he needs to be in. He had issues with conditioning this last season. If that repeats there will be long term issues down the line.

[Wild4Ever]

Fleury is still a good goalie when he remembers the basics. When he slides through the crease, he's out of control. When he crappie flops, he doesn't know where the puck is. I don't mind his windmill glove saves. In fact I like them because we haven't seen a glove hand like that in like forever. His core looks good, meaning he can get up off the ice without using his knee as leverage on the way up. Ala Backstrom and Dubnyk. He's in good shape for his age. So I just hope the Flower stays in control and helps the Wild advance. A good ending to a good career is worth the price of a ticket.

[Wild4Ever]

8 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

I think a lot of the Wild's goalie success next season will depend on Gus being in the kind of shape he needs to be in. He had issues with conditioning this last season. If that repeats there will be long term issues down the line.

Agreed. If he comes into camp, in shape and focused, he'll have a nice beginning to rewriting the Wild record books for goalies. He has a great start.

[MNCountryLife]

Fleury sure is fun to watch.  I do agree though.. while he can still put together some stellar games, he is a backup at this stage in his career.  At 3.5m...that is a high price and hurts.  I am also not convinced that Gus can handle a full 1G workload.   The wild may be best served splitting time similar to last year. 

[Beast]

I’d rather win hockey games than watch a farewell tour for a washed up goalie that has far more sentimental value for 3 or 4 other teams than our own.

Once his career is over, we’re not even a footnote.  He’s Joe Montana with the Chiefs.  Nobody cares.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Beast

[M_Nels]

2 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

Fleury sure is fun to watch.  I do agree though.. while he can still put together some stellar games, he is a backup at this stage in his career.  At 3.5m...that is a high price and hurts.  I am also not convinced that Gus can handle a full 1G workload.   The wild may be best served splitting time similar to last year. 

Yours and my definition of “fun” when it comes to watching Fleury must be different. Lol. It’s like a Chinese fire drill many nights he’s in net. He can pull off the highlight reel saves but also makes some bonehead mistakes. Hell of a guy, great mentor and has had a stellar career but you’re right he’s not a 1G anymore. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by M_Nels
Wording

[Wild4Ever]

44 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Yours and my definition of “fun” when it comes to watching Fleury must be different. Lol. It’s like a Chinese fire drill many nights he’s in net. He can pull off the highlight reel saves but also makes some bonehead mistakes. Hell of a guy, great mentor and has had a stellar career but you’re right he’s not a 1G anymore. 

If the Flower and Dumba were on the ice together, it was easier to watch with one eye closed.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

I find Fleury clashed with our defensive scheme. It sure seemed like our defense was much more panicked and less set dealing with Fleury's propensity for wild rebounds and fish flop saves. 

When Gus started getting in the net more everything seemed far more settled down and in control. Fleury is too old to be playing a style that relies on reaction time and it disrupts our defense to have a goalie so unpredictable. It is no coincidence that our defense suddenly looked frantic and out of position in front of Fleury.

I have plenty of respect for what Fleury has done in the game and in his career but I will shit bricks, then throw them throw BG's window if he resigns him again. IMHO If Gus Bus hadn't ended up being a stallion, we may have missed playoffs last year. Fleury was not good and a heavier workload would have only accelerated his decline.

[CammieBuckeye29]

On 8/19/2023 at 9:48 AM, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Fleury has amassed three Stanley Cup Championships (2009, 2016, 2017).

When you look back at his cup years, he had zero playoff wins one of those seasons. The Penguins were carried to the cup by Matt Murray and great offense. The following year, Murray had nearly as many playoff wins(7) as Fleury(9), and did it in 5 fewer starts. Matt Murray got every win in the Stanley Cup finals for the Penguins in back to back cup years.

Fleury was the main goalie for 1 Stanley Cup finals(2009) where his team won. He was generally an above average goalie, but not consistently.

Fleury has been a slightly below average starter for the Wild. He's had some really solid games, but plenty of weaker performances as well. He's had a really solid career, but he seemed to be wilting a bit late last year, with just 1 win in his last 5 starts before the playoff game where he looked overmatched. He's no longer a strong starting goalie, but should be a solid backup.

In 15-16, Fleury played 58 regular season games and was top 20 in SV% and 8th in GSAA. The Pens were a mess that year leading up to the firing of Mike Johnston and Sullivan taking over. Fleury kept that ship from sinking until Sully could come in and continue steering the team in the right direction. Without Fleury's play that regular season, the Pens don't even make the playoffs. And Matt Murray has talked at length how much Fleury helped him during that Cup run in 16. 

In 16-17, Fleury started the season as the #1 since Murray was injured. Once Murray came back, Fleury took the backup role. But once the playoffs started, Fleury had the net because of another injury to Murray. Jackets actually outshot the Pens 194-150 in that series and Fleury was outstanding. He had a .933 SV% in 5 games. The second round against the Caps is where Fleury really shined those playoffs. He had a .921 SV% in 7 games and shut the Caps out in their own barn in Game 7. He flat out stole that series. The Pens got outshot badly in that series too (229 to 160). I think he ran out of a bit of gas in the conference finals against the high-powered Sens but in his last game where he was pulled, the entire team mailed that game in and they admitted as much. The switch to Murray was the right move and I think most level headed people can admit that. Sullivan had his choice of two outstanding goalies. Either one of them wins that Cup in 17. 

To say that Fleury didn't have a major part of all 3 of his Cups is asinine and ignorant. You're either a hater or you just don't pay attention. 

 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

14 minutes ago, CammieBuckeye29 said:

To say that Fleury didn't have a major part of all 3 of his Cups is asinine and ignorant. You're either a hater or you just don't pay attention. 

First, I didn't say that. Fleury was the starting goalie in a finals that his team won 1 time in his career. He recorded less than half the wins in the regular season for one of them. I never said he was a bad goalie, I was only clarifying the label.

I'd say it's more informative than the label of 3-time Stanley Cup Champion as people generally tie that to playing in the games. I don't have any hate for him, but when people apply those labels to goalies or QBs, it generally is tied to them actually starting in those deciding games, not just being on the team.

For example, I don't think of Phil Simms as a 2-time Super Bowl champion QB, because he only played in 1, but he does have 2 rings.

Do you think of Carson Wentz as a Super Bowl champion QB?

Will people forever call Logan Thompson a Stanley Cup champion goalie(if he never wins another in his career)?

I didn't pay attention to the coaching behind the scenes, or how good of a teammate he was. Those are nice stories, but I paid attention to the statistics.

Please tell me how much you enjoyed Fleury's performance in the playoffs for the Wild last season. It would have been easy to deliver some hate, but all I was suggesting is that his career accomplishments are sometimes overhyped. He was outplayed by his own teammates both years he's been on the Wild. While he used to clearly be above average, he is no longer above average as a starter.

[CammieBuckeye29]

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I'd say it's more informative than the label of 3-time Stanley Cup Champion as people generally tie that to playing in the games. I don't have any hate for him, but when people apply those labels to goalies or QBs, it generally is tied to them actually starting in those deciding games, not just being on the team.

For example, I don't think of Phil Simms as a 2-time Super Bowl champion QB, because he only played in 1, but he does have 2 rings.

Do you think of Carson Wentz as a Super Bowl champion QB?

Will people forever call Logan Thompson a Stanley Cup champion goalie(if he never wins another in his career)?

Comparing NFL to NHL is apples to oranges. The season and playoffs are so much shorter in football. But to give you an answer, yes, Carson Wentz is a Super Bowl Champion. He was playing at an MVP level before he got hurt and the Eagles were in a situation to win because he helped get them there. Logan Thompson is also a Stanley Cup Champion forever because he helped get them there. He was also playing very well before he got hurt.

You are perfectly entitled to look at just the playoffs or the final game/round in making your opinions on what accolades should be attributed to athletes. But that's a very narrow-minded way of looking at things in my opinion. It doesn't tell the entire story. 

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Please tell me how much you enjoyed Fleury's performance in the playoffs for the Wild last season.

I think MNCountryLife sums it up best from a post on Game 2:

 

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MNCountryLife  99

Posted April 20

I didn't have a problem with Fleury playing.  Everyone knew Dallas was going to bring the A game and then some.  The Wild were going to have a let down after the feel good 2 OT game.  It didn't bode well for us.  We did just about everything wrong.  Fleury took one for the team.

I like the physical play and it should be a part of our game.  But it should not be the focus.  Play the right way and play smart. I've seen this team play the right way and play exceptional hockey.  They know how.

Worst game I have seen our veteran D core play in a very long time.  Spurgeon, Middleton, Brodin and Dumba must be better.  Those 4 are crucial to winning.  They looked rattled.  Our team starts with those 4.  They set the tone.  

 

[CammieBuckeye29]

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It would have been easy to deliver some hate, but all I was suggesting is that his career accomplishments are sometimes overhyped.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. All I will say is that one doesn't get to 3rd all-time in wins and probably going to be 2nd when everything is all said and done by being overhyped. I've watched Fleury his whole career. I can count on one to two fingers the years the Penguins would have been considered a good defensive team. Yes he had Sid and Geno on his team, but it's not like he had Lidstrom on defense like Osgood did (he is one I consider highly overrated). 

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He was outplayed by his own teammates both years he's been on the Wild. While he used to clearly be above average, he is no longer above average as a starter.

Talbot was playing better than Fleury before Fleury arrived in Minnesota. But, Chicago. How Fleury managed to do anything positive behind that god awful team was all him. Fleury and Talbot were pretty neck and neck once they were both playing. Talbot also had a shitty attitude that didn't do anyone any favors. Yes, Fleury has slowed down a bit, by his own admission as well. This will be his 20th year in the league. He'll hit 1000 games played, and be only the 4th goalie to do it. He said it at locker clean out, he will accept being a backup at this point. All he wants to do is win. He might be a highly paid backup then, but that's on Guerin. That's not Fleury's fault. It's also on Evason to evaluate his goalies properly. I think people tend to forget that last year was Gus' first real season in the NHL. He's played 66 career games. I think we all hope and really do think Gus can take the starter's job and run with it, but it remains to be seen. Having a veteran presence in Fleury as a backup/maybe tandem will really help both goalies stay fresh and help ease Gus into a true starter's role going forward. Would also help if both goalies could get some run support. Wild were 22nd in goals for and 7th in goals against. 

[Goontender29]

Not going to lie, I feel that Wild fans hating Fleury just hurts both parties. I mean, would you like it if you gave it your all and people started whining and grabbing their pitchforks. And whilst some people have unironically called him the best goalie to ever live, we need to remember his merits. He’s won 3 Stanley’s, and nearly won a 4th with Vegas.