Article: Are the Wild Constricted By Their Strictures?

[Tom Schreier]

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[Will D. Ness]

There is an exception to this theory... Faber.

 

[Protec]

Plus Rossi, and Addison don't do what they're supposed to in the NHL. Klingy got scratched.

For all the supposed head-scratchers by Guerin, let's balance them against all the value deals he's found for guys who have been making an impact. Dean has also had very good success when the team plays with structure. When they get loose, they lose.

It's gonna go back and forth with two good teams. Faber was solid again. Surprise to see Spurge and Middleton have a tough game.

[jgodwin17]

14 hours ago, Protec said:

Plus Rossi, and Addison don't do what they're supposed to in the NHL. Klingy got scratched.

For all the supposed head-scratchers by Guerin, let's balance them against all the value deals he's found for guys who have been making an impact. Dean has also had very good success when the team plays with structure. When they get loose, they lose.

It's gonna go back and forth with two good teams. Faber was solid again. Surprise to see Spurge and Middleton have a tough game.

Spurgeon and Middleton had bad numbers yes, but I wouldn’t really put it on them. The team was playing without structure and Fleury was letting in everything and anything. I think whomever was playing against their top line was going to have a tough game the other night.

[Steve]

Good look at what the Wild and GMBG are working with. Where's Chuck Fletcher and the Flyers, that's who signed us into the current Cap Restrictions? Go look at the TSN article on Fenton (1 year), want him back ? (Leipold doesn't). 

How else do you work with a budget? If I buy a house (Kaprizov) I have to pay for it, I might have to fix my fence (Reaves), My car might need to be traded (Greenway) and I pick up a reliable replacement (Gaudreau), My refrigerator in the Garage is the best ever produced (Fleury) and I bought it used but I also need to think about the future and the cranky one I had (Talbot) I traded for a newer more dependable model ( Gustafson). I know this sounds corny but it is no different then my monthly budget. I have an income and I need to cover my outgoing while maintaining my current lifestyle. I sure don't want to go into debt so I prepare my budget and stay within the lines. I can't just print money like the government.

I (The Wild) made a questionable investment, Figure it out, but I hired a planner GMBG that is committed to me and my future. He has some investments in Iowa and reviews those daily ( Iowa Wild Home game Friday and Sunday to advance in Calder Cup).

The Wild are playing at home, tonight, having taken one game in Dallas and let Dallas know they are not as soft as they may have been in the past.

The Wild are competitive, exciting and built to go forward.

Bill Guerin needs serious examination for General Manager of the Year.

Yes, I'm a homer but I don't think I'm wrong, GO WILD!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Protec]

^^^
 

Agreed. I don’t look at everything as blame-game or excuses. Reasons or justification are good descriptors for decisions that in retrospect can be perceived as good or bad. 
 

Last season there was a consensus about the highly functional and successful every other rotation between Talbot and Fleury. The Wild departed from that for the STL series and it was one of the most notable arguments after the fact for why the Wild lost along with Fiala, Hartman, Zuccarello, Foligno, Greenway, Ek, and others not getting it done offensively when they had been productive all year. 
 

My thought is, that we have higher expectations for Fleury, Spurge, and Middleton based on what they normally do. I.e. I chalk it up to a bad game for MN, not necessarily a bigger picture problem related to the roster, structure, etc. Yes, the Wild have cap constraints but they didn’t finish with 100+ points near the top of the Central as a bogged down grinder-group with failures to develop prospects. The Wild have talent and the reason Rossi or Addison aren’t playoff options isn’t cause the Wild didn’t give them chances or help them to know what the team needs...

[mnfaninnc]

Quote

• Be as cost-effective as possible.
• Establish a top-down culture.
• Value experience over skill.
• Never stray from the plan.

I don't believe the final 2 on this are accurate.  

1. Goose2 had very little experience
2. Boldy has very little experience
3. Faber has very little experience

If this is a shot at not playing Addison or Rossi, I think it's misplaced.  Rossi played his best game here in game 3 of his recent promotion.  However, the film on him commonly shows him gliding, standing still, lacking urgency and lacking compete level, and this is in the A. Addison has that same issue all year in his zone.  

I can remember seeing the film on Rossi with the '67s, and he was hustling, driving play, and a menace, and this is not what we're seeing....in the A. Perhaps he's too small for that level? Perhaps the year off really affected him hard in compete level? Or, maybe we just missed?  

At 5'9" 180+ we should have gotten a smaller, stockier center.  While Protec asks us what small Euro guy makes it, I thought we were getting a wider based player, and his play in jrs. kind of showed that.  What we need from Rossi is that guy from jrs.  He is not showing us that guy.....in the A.  This is why he's not here.  He isn't ready, or performing.  The assists he gets in Iowa are not the spectacular, dominant, FU types of plays, they're passive passes on the PP from Zuccarello's spot.  Dewar, Shaw, Duhaime all matured in the A, and you have to see their compete level, it took awhile. Rossi needs the same thing.

Quote

 They can’t overspend, but they can’t overcommit to depth veterans while bleeding inexpensive young talent. Evason needs to be able to trust his players, but there has to be some leeway to allow for player development. And when Gustavsson stands on his head for four-and-a-half periods of hockey, he has to be in net for Game 2. A plan is only good so long as it allows for adjustments. Fletcher had a plan, too. But he found himself in triage mode four years into the Parise-Suter contracts, and the Wild haven’t advanced in the playoffs ever since.

There are deviations from the plan.  This year's plan had Fleury as the starting goaltender, and Goose2 as the backup.  Not many people thought that would flip, but now that it has, people are angry with Fleury going in game 2. It's not that he's been doing every other game in the regular season, that's stupid logic.  I did suggest that I'd sit both goaltenders down before the 1st puck dropped and tell them Goose2's got game 1 and Fleury's got game 2.  Even after the game, the logic to throw a different goalie at them game 2 and let Goose2 rehydrate properly was the right decision.  

Faber is also a deviation from the plan, as he hasn't even seen the sights of Des Moines yet.  Boldy had to, and that's likely why McBain wasn't signing, he didn't want to.  We could have really used McBain in game 2.  

What Shooter and the front office won't compromise on is rushing the younger guys into the league to fill openings.  He believes in marinating them in the A and not fully promoting them until they're ready for the role they're supposed to play.  Some are closer than others, but based on the limited stuff I see in Iowa, Rossi is not one of them, Beckman is.  In fact, based upon play up here, I'd say Swaney was closer than Rossi is. 

I fully agree with this strategy.  It's not sheltering the players, it is putting them in places where they can succeed.  Much of sports has to do with confidence. Players will play much better with high levels of confidence and not putting them in places where there's too much for them to handle.  Duhaime, Dewar, Shaw are products of that.  Boldy is too.  

Watching the highlights in Iowa, I'd say that The Wall needs another season.  He was good, but had a leaky defense in front of him.  O'Rourke, Hunt, Johansson all need another season down there.  They progressed but aren't ready yet.  

One last thing about the team assembled.  They played hard and overachieved for 3 years, with a lot of placeholders.  These guys played hard all year.  It is possible that they simply don't have the extra gear needed for playoffs.  Kaprizov seems to have it, Boldy is learning, but the majority of the team just doesn't have that next level.  

[Protec]

Quote

One last thing about the team assembled.  They played hard and overachieved for 3 years, with a lot of placeholders.  These guys played hard all year.  It is possible that they simply don't have the extra gear needed for playoffs.  Kaprizov seems to have it, Boldy is learning, but the majority of the team just doesn't have that next level.  

I’m ready for a good Boldy playoff game. Production that is. The Wild are gonna need to get more from their top guys like Dallas did on Wednesday while shutting down Stars top line like the Wild could not last game.

[Pewterschmidt]

7 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

In fact, based upon play up here, I'd say Swaney was closer than Rossi is. 

I felt the same even with swaney’s small sample size.  
#brackettwhiff

[mnfaninnc]

5 minutes ago, Protec said:

I’m ready for a good Boldy playoff game. Production that is. The Wild are gonna need to get more from their top guys like Dallas did on Wednesday while shutting down Stars top line like the Wild could not last game.

I'm believing that Ek will be back in tonight, too, so that line should be reunited.  If Hartsy is out again, I think it may be pretty serious.  He's a gamer, he'd play on one leg, no candy ass here!

[jgodwin17]

I do agree that BG is generally doing a very good job with this club. It is good to remember that he is building with the future in mind and that going into this season we didn't even expect to make the playoffs.

I do still think starting Fleury was a terrible idea. He did not deserve a playoff start except out of necessity. The team plays worse in front of him, maybe because his chaotic goaltending style, or maybe because they don't trust him (and why would they). This is a guy who routinely throughout the season would let in a goal (often a bad one) or two on the first shot of the game and then would generally disintegrate from there.

And the stuff about Gus needing to rehydrate is BS. With the stuff that's available on the market (just over the counter stuff), you can get rehydrated in a matter of hours. I work in the medical field, and it does not take 36 hours to rehydrate someone, not even close. The only situation where that is true is when they have kidney failure....which if Gus did he would not be playing hockey. Deano was doing what he normally did during the regular season, and rotating goaltenders. It was a bad call.

I think another thing we have to keep in mind is Deboer. He is a much better coach than Evanson (at least he has shown as much in much longer NHL career), and Berube beat the Wild last season by outcoaching Dean. Dean is going to really have to step it up.

[mnfaninnc]

Honest question here: When we talk about Rossi, how much does everyone feel like the myocarditis affected his development?

I see Pewter's #Brackettwhiff here, and I know Protec is disappointed with the development, but losing that year, I think, was crucial for him.  By all accounts, he was ready to jump into our lineup until our doctors discovered this.  Rossi had to sit on his couch and not use a lot of energy for the better part of 6 months.  He likely dropped a lot of muscle weight during that time.  It doesn't come back overnight.

Was this really a whiff, or was it a really unfortunate incident that derailed an otherwise promising NHL career?  Is it really done yet?

40ish years ago, the North Stars took a chance on a brilliant winger who went undrafted and had a severe injury.  They had to wait after signing him for 3 years before calling him up.  He was smaller, feisty, but also had to recover from injury for quite awhile.  Could this be a repeat scenario?  They're from different parts of the world, but similar in stature.  I think it's too early to give up on him. If he can get back to that fast paced game he used to play, we should have a gem on our hands!

[jgodwin17]

I think the myocarditis definitely impacted his development. I think it's also worth it to give him a bit more time to develop before we call it a bust. If we trade him now we get what? A 3rd round pick at best? If he turns out to be a 2C that's worth a hell of a lot more than that.

Some players take longer to develop. Remember Eriksson Ek? He took three full seasons to really put it together. Remember Alex Tuch (who played what? Ten games for the Wild and did nothing and looked totally out of place. Rossi has played a few more than that, but still both small sample sizes)? Remember Ryan Nugent-Hopkins?

My point is you get pretty much nothing for him now if you trade him away, if he can put it together though? That's a great opportunity.

 

[Pewterschmidt]

We can what-if the myocarditis to death (and we have, and we will).

The reason I'm ready to come to a verdict on Rossi is because he's shown nothing through all his try-outs (WJC, NHL call-ups).  If he had exhibited NHL caliber qualities in any of the following area's (even in flashes) I might be interested in giving him more time, but...alas.   The myocarditis wouldn't affect:

1) Hands - nothing to see here

2) Vision - nope

3) Size - nu ah

4) Grit - umm no

5) Speed - I don't believe he's ever had McDavid wheel's so, no

6) Shot - he appears to be a pass first player so i'll give this a push

7) Skating C-cuts - In all seriousness he can turn/change direction quickly, but that ain't gonna move the needle 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Pewterschmidt

[jgodwin17]

Eh, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the WJC, isn’t that when they found out he had Myocarditis and was on pretty much the worst team in the tournament? I would also say the AHL is probably a step up from World Juniors and he has been good there.

Just a few years ago, we were lamenting Ek and how he had hands of stone, was slow, couldn’t win a face-off etc. Now he is one of our best players.

The return for him would be virtually nil, maybe he will make the jump and maybe not? Better to take that chance than get a low pick with less potential to even make the AHL.

[Up North Guy]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'm believing that Ek will be back in tonight, too, so that line should be reunited.  If Hartsy is out again, I think it may be pretty serious.  He's a gamer, he'd play on one leg, no candy ass here!

Hartsy and Ekkker on their lines at morning skate according to KFAN

[Up North Guy]

33 minutes ago, jgodwin17 said:

I think the myocarditis definitely impacted his development. I think it's also worth it to give him a bit more time to develop before we call it a bust. If we trade him now we get what? A 3rd round pick at best? If he turns out to be a 2C that's worth a hell of a lot more than that.

Some players take longer to develop. Remember Eriksson Ek? He took three full seasons to really put it together. Remember Alex Tuch (who played what? Ten games for the Wild and did nothing and looked totally out of place. Rossi has played a few more than that, but still both small sample sizes)? Remember Ryan Nugent-Hopkins?

My point is you get pretty much nothing for him now if you trade him away, if he can put it together though? That's a great opportunity.

 

we sure could use Tuch and his 30+ goals now. Fletcher sucked

[Pewterschmidt]

8 minutes ago, jgodwin17 said:

Eh, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the WJC, isn’t that when they found out he had Myocarditis and was on pretty much the worst team in the tournament? I would also say the AHL is probably a step up from World Juniors and he has been good there.

Just a few years ago, we were lamenting Ek and how he had hands of stone, was slow, couldn’t win a face-off etc. Now he is one of our best players.

The return for him would be virtually nil, maybe he will make the jump and maybe not? Better to take that chance than get a low pick with less potential to even make the AHL.

WJC: Rossi was getting around the ice fine and was clearly a better skater than most (= myo. non-factor) which should have allowed him to CREATE more opportunities.  It just didn't happen.  Yes his team sucked, but he showed nothing against a bunch of players who will never see a shift in NHL.

Ek: this comparison is flawed because Ek is bigger, stronger, grittier and hungrier than Rossi will ever be.  It's just science.  I think Rossi is hungry now, but this is what he's capable of bringing whilst hungry. 

Most of Ek's goals last year bounced off his helmet.  He's not this team's back-bone because of his silky mitts.  Rossi will have to grow another set of testicles to compete with Ek.  Now maybe they've figured out how to do this in Austria but I'm betting against it.

[MNCountryLife]

This is the playoffs and we are playing against a very good Dallas team with a massive disadvantage in cap.  Addison and Rossi were not ready.  Walker and Beckman are close.  Faber is better than we could have hoped.  Regardless of how this series plays out we are likely to be competitive next year as well because of smart moves from BG and his willingness to bring in youth and inexpensive talent.  Sure helps the winter nights being able to watch some quality hockey from a MN team.

[Brood]

Quote

And when Gustavsson stands on his head for four-and-a-half periods of hockey, he has to be in net for Game 2

All of the this!

[jgodwin17]

45 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

WJC: Rossi was getting around the ice fine and was clearly a better skater than most (= myo. non-factor) which should have allowed him to CREATE more opportunities.  It just didn't happen.  Yes his team sucked, but he showed nothing against a bunch of players who will never see a shift in NHL.

Ek: this comparison is flawed because Ek is bigger, stronger, grittier and hungrier than Rossi will ever be.  It's just science.  I think Rossi is hungry now, but this is what he's capable of bringing whilst hungry. 

Most of Ek's goals last year bounced off his helmet.  He's not this team's back-bone because of his silky mitts.  Rossi will have to grow another set of testicles to compete with Ek.  Now maybe they've figured out how to do this in Austria but I'm betting against it.

I don't think the Ek comparison is flawed, players have different talents, and Ek is better at utilizing his after he spent time adapting to the league. Being bigger on itself isn't a merit if you don't utilize it correctly. Look at Robertson through this series. The guy is bigger than most of the forwards on our team, and he gets manhandled by guys like Spurgeon who are 4-5 inches shorter and 30-40 pounds lighter. He certainly has a lot of other talents, but he definitely does not use his size. If he and Kap had actually gotten into a fight the other night Kap would have torn his head off.

Rossi hasn't figured out how to utilize his skill set in the NHL yet. Maybe he won't, who knows. Better to take a chance than trade him away for a pick that will likely never even make the AHL.

[B1GKappa97]

58 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Rossi will have to grow another set of testicles to compete with Ek.  Now maybe they've figured out how to do this in Austria but I'm betting against it.

hey cut him some slack. he's busy tearing his ass open in the offseason! 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, B1GKappa97 said:

hey cut him some slack. he's busy tearing his ass open in the offseason! 

Let's get his ass sewn up stat.  Might be the solution to the problem.

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

1) Hands - nothing to see here

2) Vision - nope

3) Size - nu ah

4) Grit - umm no

5) Speed - I don't believe he's ever had McDavid wheel's so, no

6) Shot - he appears to be a pass first player so i'll give this a push

7) Skating C-cuts - In all seriousness he can turn/change direction quickly, but that ain't gonna move the needle 

Vision- I would say he showed some in his last 2 games up here. 

Speed/agility- I would say he showed that in his final game here.

Shot- He has shown that a little in the A.

But, even with this I still see a lot of standing still (an invitation to get pasted on the wall), a lack of compete and lack of physical contact and battle.  There's also a lot of gliding and very little hustle (a lot of film on that). 

 

 

[WildFan22]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:52 AM, mnfaninnc said:

Honest question here: When we talk about Rossi, how much does everyone feel like the myocarditis affected his development?

I see Pewter's #Brackettwhiff here, and I know Protec is disappointed with the development, but losing that year, I think, was crucial for him.  By all accounts, he was ready to jump into our lineup until our doctors discovered this.  Rossi had to sit on his couch and not use a lot of energy for the better part of 6 months.  He likely dropped a lot of muscle weight during that time.  It doesn't come back overnight.

Was this really a whiff, or was it a really unfortunate incident that derailed an otherwise promising NHL career?  Is it really done yet?

40ish years ago, the North Stars took a chance on a brilliant winger who went undrafted and had a severe injury.  They had to wait after signing him for 3 years before calling him up.  He was smaller, feisty, but also had to recover from injury for quite awhile.  Could this be a repeat scenario?  They're from different parts of the world, but similar in stature.  I think it's too early to give up on him. If he can get back to that fast paced game he used to play, we should have a gem on our hands!

As a member of the younger generation of Minnesota hockey fans, who is this referencing to?