Article: The Wild Can't Pay Sticker Price For Ryan Hartman

[Luke Sims]

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[Up North Guy]

The Athletic has a nice article on Hartman today. He clearly insinuates that he wants to stay in Minnesota but he also makes clear that he wants to get paid. If BG thinks this negotiation will be a breeze, he will be sadly surprised. 

[mnfaninnc]

If Shooter has a figure in mind, and Hartzy a different one, perhaps we shall play the season and see who is right? Starting off hurt would put Hartzy's value lower, and I wonder if having him completely healthy shouldn't be the goal here.

Edited October 5, 2023 by mnfaninnc

[Wild4Ever]

Hartman might have to 'get paid' by another club. His hockey IQ sucks but he does have some talent and 'grit'. I think he's worth a slightly increased 1 year prove it contract or trade him. The tail doesn't wag the dog anymore on the Wild.

[vonlonster67]

The Wild (Zucci/KK) made  "Hartzy", not the other way around. I applaud his signing of the $1.7M X 3, but it also kept him in a stable environment which allowed him to revitalize his game on a line he probably doesn't deserve to play on, but fortune was gracious to him and the Wild don't have any option, so it was a marriage made for everyone. He was on a merry-go-round of teams before he arrived and got a chance to prove himself and stay close to his honey who he eventually married.

Is he good enough to play as a 1C on any other line of any other team, NO! Same for a 2C and maybe a 3C on most teams. He may end up a wing on some other teams who have better talent. So him playing on a 3C line probably gets him $3-4M here, maybe, nothing close to $5-6M.

So if this drags on beyond the $3-4M for anything beyond 3 yrs, I let him walk. Regroup for next year based on what we have in IA and coming to the US next year. Thx for the memories Hartzy, but we have enough money tied up in vets for now.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by vonlonster67

[Imyourhuckleberry]

39 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

So if this drags on beyond the $3-4M for anything beyond 3 yrs, I let him walk. Regroup for next year based on what we have in IA and coming to the US next year. Thx for the memories Hartzy, but we have enough money tied up in vets for now.

I would be shocked if Guerin entertained the idea of paying him more per year than Foligno. I wouldn't be surprised by $14M over 4 years($3.5M/season). I'd have no issues with shorter term though. Maybe $10M for 3 seasons?

[vonlonster67]

4 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I'd have no issues with shorter term though. Maybe $10M for 3 seasons?

Agreed, nothing more, he's gonna be on our 4th line sooner than later

[WheelSnipeCelly]

Definitely concerned that Foligno's 4M for 4 years is going to drive Hartzy's price + duration up.

I'm still a bit confused that GMBG didn't wait to see how the season (at least until Thanksgiving) panned out before extending Zucci and Foligno. What if both have down years? What if the Wild end up having injuries (*knocks on wood that they don't) and end up missing the playoffs — now they can't send any of the big 3 veterans out for picks/prospects. Guerin could have offered gentlemen agreements to each of the players for offseason contracts similar to Goligoski.

[Justin Hein]

13 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I would be shocked if Guerin entertained the idea of paying him more per year than Foligno. I wouldn't be surprised by $14M over 4 years($3.5M/season). I'd have no issues with shorter term though. Maybe $10M for 3 seasons?

The main factor that Hartman's agent will (correctly) leverage over the Foligno deal is that Hartman plays center. They can argue about whether he should, but Evason has put him there so he will be able to command center money on the open market. 

FWIW, Dom's Model a the Athletic predicts Hartman will be worth $5.4 MM this season, and that includes advanced statistics which are intended to isolate his impact from Kaprizov and Zuccarello. Players in their late 20's are going to squeeze every cent out of this contract. It's their last bite at the apple. The best way Guerin can keep this deal manageable and fit with the Wild's presumed Cup window is to keep it short. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

30 minutes ago, Justin Hein said:

the Athletic predicts Hartman will be worth $5.4 MM this season, and that includes advanced statistics which are intended to isolate his impact from Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

I suspect he might take a little less to stick with the Wild, but maybe his agent would prefer to have him test the open market rather than take $4M or less. I've really appreciated what Hartman brings to the team, but if he prices himself out, they should be able to replace his production over the next few years.

If he were to leave, moving Rossi up to #1 and filling his role with Khusnutdinov or another of the guys who are getting close to the NHL likely would not drop production too much. I think Hartman is better today for the #1 line role, but the youth could be catching up fairly quickly.

Other top teams might not have the cap space to give Hartman the money his agent wants, and he would be hard pressed to find a better playing situation than he has with the Wild, so there are a number of factors at play.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Honestly, out of the three veterans I was hoping we would keep Hartman but now that we have paid big bucks to Foligno, it is hard to argue for a lesser contract for Hartman. Hopefully they don't give another term and NMC/NTC type situation or we are looking at overpaying three aging vets when our cap hit comes off. Doesn't bode well for our 1C situation....

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, Justin Hein said:

The main factor that Hartman's agent will (correctly) leverage over the Foligno deal is that Hartman plays center. They can argue about whether he should, but Evason has put him there so he will be able to command center money on the open market. 

FWIW, Dom's Model a the Athletic predicts Hartman will be worth $5.4 MM this season, and that includes advanced statistics which are intended to isolate his impact from Kaprizov and Zuccarello. Players in their late 20's are going to squeeze every cent out of this contract. It's their last bite at the apple. The best way Guerin can keep this deal manageable and fit with the Wild's presumed Cup window is to keep it short. 

Shorter term means more money so $5M X 2 or $4.5 X 3, No thanks!

So Dom's Model suggests Hartman would be a top forward impacting a top 6 of a team. I hate to break it to him, but Hartzy is stretching out the meaning of top 6 and center. No way Hartman is worth that much to any other team. Only team would be a team looking to waste Cap money at best, no contenders for a 1C/2C. We don't have a 1C so that is our dilemma, our need isn't worth the cost of that contract. BG needs to say enough is enough!

Imagine if Rossi/later Dino or Yurov was the fix and any took over our 1C in year 2 or 3, would we really put Hartman anywhere at a center position at $4-5M on our team on another line. He would be a grinder wing at best as I don't see the advantage of displacing Dewey2 at 4C with Hartzy for the potential Dewey2 is showing and his cost? 

We need to pay Hartman at the value he will be playing when he is displaced from the 1C and that is top 9 at best. $3-3.5M X 3.

[WIWild]

I want the style of player Hartzy was in 21-22. KK can bury the puck, but KK is just as much of a play maker (ie, he's no FiFi), as is Zucci. As wings that season, they would make plays deep and/or along the boards, center it, and Hartzy wouldn't even dust it off, he would just bury it. He's no 1C (there's maybe 6 in the NHL?), but he was/is the right 'center' for that line - we've tried many, and have no other bringing that line chemistry. He wasn't as good last year after his injury, but KK also wasn't as good after his injury, and Zucci was not noticeable in a good way when KK was not with him. Wait a bit, and find out if they can get that chemistry back - if so, show him the money. If not, Dean, change the lines once in a while - it feels like some puzzle pieces are forced into the wrong place.

[vonlonster67]

30 minutes ago, WIWild said:

I want the style of player Hartzy was in 21-22. KK can bury the puck, but KK is just as much of a play maker (ie, he's no FiFi), as is Zucci. As wings that season, they would make plays deep and/or along the boards, center it, and Hartzy wouldn't even dust it off, he would just bury it. He's no 1C (there's maybe 6 in the NHL?), but he was/is the right 'center' for that line - we've tried many, and have no other bringing that line chemistry. He wasn't as good last year after his injury, but KK also wasn't as good after his injury, and Zucci was not noticeable in a good way when KK was not with him. Wait a bit, and find out if they can get that chemistry back - if so, show him the money. If not, Dean, change the lines once in a while - it feels like some puzzle pieces are forced into the wrong place.

Agree, lets just be careful how much money we show him..