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  • The Wild Can't Pay Sticker Price For Ryan Hartman


    Image courtesy of © Charles LeClaire - USA TODAY Sports
    Luke Sims

    The Minnesota Wild inked Marcus Foligno and Mats Zuccarello to contract extensions, and there’s another one comin’. At this point, it’s all but guaranteed that Ryan Hartman will be signing his new contract extension soon. Bill Guerin has done all but hung a banner outside the Xcel Energy Center saying, IT’S SIGNING HARTMAN SEASON. Between now and when the ink hits paper, we can assume Hartman will be a member of this team for many years to come.  

    The if is assured, the when is likely soon, so the only question is how? How much will he get on that contract, that is.

    Hartman makes $1.7 million against the salary cap as a pending unrestricted free agent. Hartman flourished during his time in Minnesota. The Chicago native had a career year with 34 goals and 67 points during the 2021-22 season. But when Dean Evason broke up the top-line trio of Kirill Kaprizov, Hartman, and Mats Zuccarello last season, Hartman didn’t see nearly the same amount of success without them. Still, a down year for Hartman was still the second-best season of his career. He had 37 points in 59 games, a 51-point pace if he had played 82 games. 

    It’s no secret that Kaprizov’s presence revolutionized Hartman’s game. Still, the team believes he brings something to Kaprizov’s line. Hartman was back with Kaprizov and Zuccarello at the end of last season and in the playoffs. Evason just couldn’t get anyone else to stick with the top-line duo and resorted to what he knew worked.  

    But how much will it cost? Evolving Hockey has a tool to help predict contract extensions for players. Based on an $83.5 million cap, Evolving Hockey predicts Hartman could command six years, $38.9 million on the open market.

    However, that’s just the most likely scenario with the term (the model forecasts a 25% chance at a six-year term). At four years (20%) or five (16%), that figure falls more into the $5.3 to 5.5 million per year range.

    While that may seem rich, Hartman is a gritty center who’s scored 49 goals and 102 points over his last 141 games. I’m sure Hartman’s agent would love to have his client test the market. Of course, the numbers don’t always tell the entire story. Again, almost all of Hartman’s successes have come with Kaprizov on his wing. 

    If you think that level of money is unreachable for Hartman, let’s look at Martin Hanzal, the player Evolving Hockey lists as Hartman’s closest comparable over the last three years.

    The infamous former member of the Wild was a solid depth player for most of his career. Hanzal could fill a role as a middle-six center on any team as a reliable 30- to 40-point guy. Hanzal’s biggest contract was $4,750,000 AAV for three years, coming off his stint in Minnesota. That’s not a big leap from what the projections suggest Hartman can command.

    Hartman would probably be considered a Hanzal-level player now. But before he skated next to Kaprizov? Not a chance.

    Hartman was incredible during that 65-point season. But as last year showed, you can’t expect that always to be who he is. Before Kaprizov, Hartman’s time in Minnesota was solid but nothing special. The Chicago native had collected 44 points across two seasons, never cracking more than ten goals.  

    Chandler Stephenson is the easiest comparable to Hartman. Both are 29 years old and were depth forwards with a minor role on a different team. Then they signed elsewhere, grinded it out for a few years, then finally got a chance to play with some stars and thrived in that role. Now, they are both looking to cash in on their production.

    Stephenson had never scored more than 18 points before joining their new team – Hartman never more than 31. Before the 2020-21 season, Stephenson signed a $2.75 million deal with the Vegas Golden Knights after serving as a valuable depth option for the Washington Capitals. 

    Stephenson got to play with Mark Stone, Max Pacioretty, Alex Tuch, Jonathan Marchessault, and Jack Eichel. All of them are premier offensive talents. Speaking of “elite,” we must mention a pair of star offensive defensemen: Shea Theodore and Alex Pietrangelo. That isn’t to discredit Stephenson as a player. The Saskatoon native is very effective in his role. But it appears clear that the players around him have elevated his production, just like Hartman.

    The Wild should not be paying Hartman for the player he is with Kaprizov. The Wild need to pay Hartman for the player he is individually. Hartman won’t always play with Kaprizov. Or at least, he better not be. The player Hartman is without Kaprizov is not worth nearly as much as the Hartman we’ve seen these past two years. 

    So, yes, those Evolving Hockey contract predictions are a bit too high on Hartman. Guerin has given some favorable contracts to “his guys,” but signing Ryan Hartman to a long-term deal approaching $6 million would have people storming the gates of 317 Washington trying to get some of that money Guerin is giving away. 

    Hartman probably realizes that he won’t get to be with Kaprizov forever and has also stated he wants to stay in Minnesota. Hartman just got married and is looking to settle down. It seems like a recipe for him to, once again, trade money for security by signing a longer-term deal that lowers the AAV. Maybe even one that tries to get less money in the short term but guarantees himself a bigger payout for the long haul. The Wild probably see it that way, too. Minnesota has also shown they have no problem extending players into their mid-to-late-30s. 

    Hartman earning an AAV somewhere in the $3-4 million range feels most reasonable, and it’s a deserved raise for his quality of play. A four-or-five year deal approaching the $20-25 million range would not be surprising. But even a reasonable outcome would be concerning.

    Not by itself, necessarily, but coupling a Hartman deal with the Foligno extension is a bit nerve-wracking. Hopefully, when Marco Rossi (or someone else) steps into that No. 1 Center role, that will relegate Hartman to bottom-six duties. But then, the Wild will have two bottom-sixers making $4 million or more signed through their mid-30s. That definitely isn’t the most efficient or marketable commodity.

    But, like it or not, none of us are the general manager, and this seems to be a fait accompli. For better or worse, Hartman will be a member of the Wild for the foreseeable future, and his name will have a bigger price tag attached to it. We all might as well get used to it.

    All stats and data via Evolving Hockey and HockeyDB unless otherwise noted.

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    The Athletic has a nice article on Hartman today. He clearly insinuates that he wants to stay in Minnesota but he also makes clear that he wants to get paid. If BG thinks this negotiation will be a breeze, he will be sadly surprised. 

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    If Shooter has a figure in mind, and Hartzy a different one, perhaps we shall play the season and see who is right? Starting off hurt would put Hartzy's value lower, and I wonder if having him completely healthy shouldn't be the goal here.

    Edited by mnfaninnc
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    Hartman might have to 'get paid' by another club. His hockey IQ sucks but he does have some talent and 'grit'. I think he's worth a slightly increased 1 year prove it contract or trade him. The tail doesn't wag the dog anymore on the Wild.

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    The Wild (Zucci/KK) made  "Hartzy", not the other way around. I applaud his signing of the $1.7M X 3, but it also kept him in a stable environment which allowed him to revitalize his game on a line he probably doesn't deserve to play on, but fortune was gracious to him and the Wild don't have any option, so it was a marriage made for everyone. He was on a merry-go-round of teams before he arrived and got a chance to prove himself and stay close to his honey who he eventually married.

    Is he good enough to play as a 1C on any other line of any other team, NO! Same for a 2C and maybe a 3C on most teams. He may end up a wing on some other teams who have better talent. So him playing on a 3C line probably gets him $3-4M here, maybe, nothing close to $5-6M.

    So if this drags on beyond the $3-4M for anything beyond 3 yrs, I let him walk. Regroup for next year based on what we have in IA and coming to the US next year. Thx for the memories Hartzy, but we have enough money tied up in vets for now.

     

    Edited by vonlonster67
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    39 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

    So if this drags on beyond the $3-4M for anything beyond 3 yrs, I let him walk. Regroup for next year based on what we have in IA and coming to the US next year. Thx for the memories Hartzy, but we have enough money tied up in vets for now.

    I would be shocked if Guerin entertained the idea of paying him more per year than Foligno. I wouldn't be surprised by $14M over 4 years($3.5M/season). I'd have no issues with shorter term though. Maybe $10M for 3 seasons?

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    Definitely concerned that Foligno's 4M for 4 years is going to drive Hartzy's price + duration up.

    I'm still a bit confused that GMBG didn't wait to see how the season (at least until Thanksgiving) panned out before extending Zucci and Foligno. What if both have down years? What if the Wild end up having injuries (*knocks on wood that they don't) and end up missing the playoffs — now they can't send any of the big 3 veterans out for picks/prospects. Guerin could have offered gentlemen agreements to each of the players for offseason contracts similar to Goligoski.

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    13 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    I would be shocked if Guerin entertained the idea of paying him more per year than Foligno. I wouldn't be surprised by $14M over 4 years($3.5M/season). I'd have no issues with shorter term though. Maybe $10M for 3 seasons?

    The main factor that Hartman's agent will (correctly) leverage over the Foligno deal is that Hartman plays center. They can argue about whether he should, but Evason has put him there so he will be able to command center money on the open market. 

    FWIW, Dom's Model a the Athletic predicts Hartman will be worth $5.4 MM this season, and that includes advanced statistics which are intended to isolate his impact from Kaprizov and Zuccarello. Players in their late 20's are going to squeeze every cent out of this contract. It's their last bite at the apple. The best way Guerin can keep this deal manageable and fit with the Wild's presumed Cup window is to keep it short. 

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    30 minutes ago, Justin Hein said:

    the Athletic predicts Hartman will be worth $5.4 MM this season, and that includes advanced statistics which are intended to isolate his impact from Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

    I suspect he might take a little less to stick with the Wild, but maybe his agent would prefer to have him test the open market rather than take $4M or less. I've really appreciated what Hartman brings to the team, but if he prices himself out, they should be able to replace his production over the next few years.

    If he were to leave, moving Rossi up to #1 and filling his role with Khusnutdinov or another of the guys who are getting close to the NHL likely would not drop production too much. I think Hartman is better today for the #1 line role, but the youth could be catching up fairly quickly.

    Other top teams might not have the cap space to give Hartman the money his agent wants, and he would be hard pressed to find a better playing situation than he has with the Wild, so there are a number of factors at play.

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    Honestly, out of the three veterans I was hoping we would keep Hartman but now that we have paid big bucks to Foligno, it is hard to argue for a lesser contract for Hartman. Hopefully they don't give another term and NMC/NTC type situation or we are looking at overpaying three aging vets when our cap hit comes off. Doesn't bode well for our 1C situation....

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    1 hour ago, Justin Hein said:

    The main factor that Hartman's agent will (correctly) leverage over the Foligno deal is that Hartman plays center. They can argue about whether he should, but Evason has put him there so he will be able to command center money on the open market. 

    FWIW, Dom's Model a the Athletic predicts Hartman will be worth $5.4 MM this season, and that includes advanced statistics which are intended to isolate his impact from Kaprizov and Zuccarello. Players in their late 20's are going to squeeze every cent out of this contract. It's their last bite at the apple. The best way Guerin can keep this deal manageable and fit with the Wild's presumed Cup window is to keep it short. 

    Shorter term means more money so $5M X 2 or $4.5 X 3, No thanks!

    So Dom's Model suggests Hartman would be a top forward impacting a top 6 of a team. I hate to break it to him, but Hartzy is stretching out the meaning of top 6 and center. No way Hartman is worth that much to any other team. Only team would be a team looking to waste Cap money at best, no contenders for a 1C/2C. We don't have a 1C so that is our dilemma, our need isn't worth the cost of that contract. BG needs to say enough is enough!

    Imagine if Rossi/later Dino or Yurov was the fix and any took over our 1C in year 2 or 3, would we really put Hartman anywhere at a center position at $4-5M on our team on another line. He would be a grinder wing at best as I don't see the advantage of displacing Dewey2 at 4C with Hartzy for the potential Dewey2 is showing and his cost? 

    We need to pay Hartman at the value he will be playing when he is displaced from the 1C and that is top 9 at best. $3-3.5M X 3.

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    I want the style of player Hartzy was in 21-22. KK can bury the puck, but KK is just as much of a play maker (ie, he's no FiFi), as is Zucci. As wings that season, they would make plays deep and/or along the boards, center it, and Hartzy wouldn't even dust it off, he would just bury it. He's no 1C (there's maybe 6 in the NHL?), but he was/is the right 'center' for that line - we've tried many, and have no other bringing that line chemistry. He wasn't as good last year after his injury, but KK also wasn't as good after his injury, and Zucci was not noticeable in a good way when KK was not with him. Wait a bit, and find out if they can get that chemistry back - if so, show him the money. If not, Dean, change the lines once in a while - it feels like some puzzle pieces are forced into the wrong place.

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    30 minutes ago, WIWild said:

    I want the style of player Hartzy was in 21-22. KK can bury the puck, but KK is just as much of a play maker (ie, he's no FiFi), as is Zucci. As wings that season, they would make plays deep and/or along the boards, center it, and Hartzy wouldn't even dust it off, he would just bury it. He's no 1C (there's maybe 6 in the NHL?), but he was/is the right 'center' for that line - we've tried many, and have no other bringing that line chemistry. He wasn't as good last year after his injury, but KK also wasn't as good after his injury, and Zucci was not noticeable in a good way when KK was not with him. Wait a bit, and find out if they can get that chemistry back - if so, show him the money. If not, Dean, change the lines once in a while - it feels like some puzzle pieces are forced into the wrong place.

    Agree, lets just be careful how much money we show him..

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