Article: The Case For the Wild To Play Spurgeon and Brodin Together

[Tony Abbott]

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[Luke Sims]

Could certainly see this playing out at some point during the year. Especially if the team can trust Faber to hold down the fort on his own. Leaves Middelton kinda out of place but the Wild could benefit from him playing a little lower in the lineup. 

Are you concerned at all with Spurgeon's age and a proposed uptick in minutes?

P.S.

Rafalski and Lidstrom are so sick 

[FredJohnson]

I can see this happening now that Jo Bro doesn't have to babysit Dumba55. 

[FredJohnson]

20 minutes ago, Luke Sims said:

Leaves Middelton kinda out of place but the Wild could benefit from him playing a little lower in the lineup. 

Are you concerned at all with Spurgeon's age and a proposed uptick in Minutes?

Mix and match D pairs later in games to give Midds more ice-time and less ice-time for Tank.

[M_Nels]

I'm in the camp of keeping them separate at least initially to keep the pairings more balanced. If a situation late in the game calls for a shutdown then sure pair them up.

Both Spurge & Brodin are strong enough defenders to mask or coverup their partners weaknesses to an extent. Like the idea of Faber being a "plug & play" for Dumba. Faber showed he is a strong defender in his own right but learning under the tutelage of Brodin is only going to make him better. While Brodin is on the "second pair" he is often tasked with handling the players most 1st pairings match up against. IDK I just like the idea of being more balanced in the pairings.

[vonlonster67]

Tony I'm in to try this and see if it produces. I really want to see Faber expand his game with the Wild, he's not just a stay at home defenceman. I don't believe we've even seen the tip of the iceberg yet with his offensive game.

Towards the end of the playoffs I saw Faber start to wander into the zone with the puck and look pretty damn comfortable against Dallas. This was also not uncommon when he was with the Gophers, driving into the zone to the point for a shot or coasting to the back of the net and pass for a great look or shot and even some goals.

Middy would definitely give him that opportunity and it would flip the tables if the wild could do that across the D grouping with Brodin, Faber and Addy!

Edited September 13, 2023 by vonlonster67

[mnfaninnc]

Last season, Lambos was one of the final cuts the Wild made. What happens if Lambos has grown well in his final year of jrs.? Would that be enough for Goligoski to hang up the skates or head into Shooter's office seeing if there is a fit for him elsewhere in the league?  Maybe he just wants to head home to family, or retire from playing and join the front office?

Pairings under this would look like: 

• Brodin-Spurgeon
• Middleton-Addison
• Lambos-Faber
• Merrill

Under this scenario, I have the Wild opting to call up Hunt when someone gets injured, but they want him playing 20 minutes a game. Also note that the above pairings are not in order, except for Merrill who would be the clear #7. 

I don't know about you guys, but to me, this defense looks pretty good on paper.

[MNCountryLife]

Not sure the Wild are capable of surviving a season with Spurge/Brodin getting 25+ minutes a game.  My hope:

1)  Middleton needs to up his game one more small step.  Don't do too much.

2)  Faber needs to come in and play like he did in the spring.

3)  Addy needs a really good summer beefing himself up and studying the D zone.

4)  Goligoski needs to be miffed about his play and come into camp in shape and showing he deserves more minutes.

5)  Merrill will be himself on the 3rd pairing.

Dean should grade the players and give the most minutes to the best grades.  Let the fight for minutes commence. 

[UncleWalt]

I don’t know. On the road, coaches would just wait for Spurgeon and Brodin to skate to the bench to put out their first lines. In Edmonton, that would mean 20 minutes of McDavid vs. Mids and a rookie. That’s a pretty tough ask. 

[vonlonster67]

59 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Last season, Lambos was one of the final cuts the Wild made. What happens if Lambos has grown well in his final year of jrs.? Would that be enough for Goligoski to hang up the skates or head into Shooter's office seeing if there is a fit for him elsewhere in the league?  Maybe he just wants to head home to family, or retire from playing and join the front office?

Pairings under this would look like: 

• Brodin-Spurgeon
• Middleton-Addison
• Lambos-Faber
• Merrill

Under this scenario, I have the Wild opting to call up Hunt when someone gets injured, but they want him playing 20 minutes a game. Also note that the above pairings are not in order, except for Merrill who would be the clear #7. 

I don't know about you guys, but to me, this defense looks pretty good on paper.

You forgot the DE factor....

[mnfaninnc]

18 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

You forgot the DE factor....

I was under the impression that Evason was in charge of cutting the roster down to 22. The fact that Evason kept Lambos around so long should indicate that he liked what he saw. It is true that Evason prefers vets, but should Lambos outplay Merrill (which shouldn't be that hard), and Goligoski (a very possible outcome) pretty badly, I could see him making the jump. 

1 thing Lambos has in his favor is a ready NHL body. He could still use some filling out, but he's pushing 200 lbs. already, so he won't get pushed around. Having the elite skating of the 3rd pairing could be very interesting, especially considering their combined cap hit is under $2.5m. 

Goligoski, I believe, still has value to the organization, but the on ice value is deteriorating fairly quickly! I would feel comfortable with Goligoski in a role of mentor throughout the defensive corps in the organization. I could see him working with both Iowa teams and visiting other leagues to keep tabs on our defending prospects. He has a lot of experience to offer, and can probably talk to the kids better than Housley at this point.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

45 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I was under the impression that Evason was in charge of cutting the roster down to 22. The fact that Evason kept Lambos around so long should indicate that he liked what he saw. It is true that Evason prefers vets, but should Lambos outplay Merrill (which shouldn't be that hard), and Goligoski (a very possible outcome) pretty badly, I could see him making the jump. 

1 thing Lambos has in his favor is a ready NHL body. He could still use some filling out, but he's pushing 200 lbs. already, so he won't get pushed around. Having the elite skating of the 3rd pairing could be very interesting, especially considering their combined cap hit is under $2.5m. 

Goligoski, I believe, still has value to the organization, but the on ice value is deteriorating fairly quickly! I would feel comfortable with Goligoski in a role of mentor throughout the defensive corps in the organization. I could see him working with both Iowa teams and visiting other leagues to keep tabs on our defending prospects. He has a lot of experience to offer, and can probably talk to the kids better than Housley at this point.

I think the D is set if everyone is healthy coming out of training camp, assuming they eventually come to terms with Addison, but they will inevitably need a defenseman when someone gets dinged up. Lambos is the one guy that if they put him on the ice with the Wild, they may not send him back down. I wouldn't be completely shocked if he's with the Wild to start the year.

They might still give Hunt the first shot if it's early in the year, but we'll see.

Goligoski could definitely be a veteran for the young guys to lean on when they need that. We'll see if he and Fleury stick around for consulting or coaching roles when they hang up the skates.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

21 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Last season, Lambos was one of the final cuts the Wild made. What happens if Lambos has grown well in his final year of jrs.? Would that be enough for Goligoski to hang up the skates or head into Shooter's office seeing if there is a fit for him elsewhere in the league?  Maybe he just wants to head home to family, or retire from playing and join the front office?

Pairings under this would look like: 

• Brodin-Spurgeon
• Middleton-Addison
• Lambos-Faber
• Merrill

Under this scenario, I have the Wild opting to call up Hunt when someone gets injured, but they want him playing 20 minutes a game. Also note that the above pairings are not in order, except for Merrill who would be the clear #7. 

I don't know about you guys, but to me, this defense looks pretty good on paper.

I think Goli showed last year that he refuses to hang up the skates and wants to play. If Lambos is capable of making the jump I might like to see Merrill sent to the A to give us cap space. He would only count as $50,000 against the cap instead of $1.2mil down there and would give us room to bring Lambos and a 13th forward up which could be very valuable looking at the cap situation. Goli stays on as a 7th defender in a pinch and we get a chance to bring up Walker or Beckman to play around with line pairings!

[Mateo3xm]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:40 AM, FredJohnson said:

I can see this happening now that Jo Bro doesn't have to babysit Dumba55. 

Brodin never had to “babysit” Dumba.

when he was more offensive prior to the injury, sure Brodin covered for him at times but that’s a common occurrence when you have a defensive defender and an offensive defenseman. Dumba had 50pts at 24 years old. 
His offense made up for Brodins lack of offense and Brodie’s defense made up for Dumbas lack of defense.

together they made a very good defensive pairing especially the last few years.

The narrative that Brodin had to babysit Dumba gets parroted by misinformed/ignorant people.

For some reason he’s been the team scapegoat.

plenty of articles even on Hockey Wilderness have disapproved of most of that.

If you really think that pairing was only good because of Brodin you’re sorely mistaken.

[mnfaninnc]

26 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

I think Goli showed last year that he refuses to hang up the skates and wants to play. If Lambos is capable of making the jump I might like to see Merrill sent to the A to give us cap space. He would only count as $50,000 against the cap instead of $1.2mil down there and would give us room to bring Lambos and a 13th forward up which could be very valuable looking at the cap situation. Goli stays on as a 7th defender in a pinch and we get a chance to bring up Walker or Beckman to play around with line pairings!

It may be true about Goligoski, but what we saw last season was a pretty harsh decline. If that trend continues, he may realize in training camp that it's time. Or, Shooter might help him make the decision by insisting that it is time. Typically, the player is the last to know it's over, they don't see it and chalk it up to bad breaks. 

I like the veteran presence aspect, but we've got that in Spurgeon and Brodin. Goose would be far more useful in a mentorship role capacity paying specific attention to Des Moines. One thing I do see is that not all of the kids will be playing in Des Moines, so it's nice having the E franchise close by. Just for playing time, I could see a shuffle going on. Helping those guys too, would have to be on a defensive coordinator's list. (From the stats, it looked like the Heartlanders were pretty brutal defensively)

[Up North Guy]

3 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

The narrative that Brodin had to babysit Dumba gets parroted by misinformed/ignorant people.

A bit harsh don't you think?

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, Up North Guy said:

A bit harsh don't you think?

It's like talking to the wall...

[Mateo3xm]

On 9/14/2023 at 2:40 PM, Up North Guy said:

A bit harsh don't you think?

Maybe, maybe not. Don’t you think labeling Dumba as DumbaSS is?  I think it’s more so laziness because if you look at points, blocked shots, assists, ta/ga, hits, shooting percentage, advanced stats etc.

It refutes all this parroting. Dumba has never been a high level defender but he brings a lot more to the table with other things and yet ppl mercilessly crap on him which seems pretty uninformed to me.

 

[vonlonster67]

39 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

Maybe, maybe not. Don’t you think labeling Dumba as DumbaSS is?  I think it’s more so laziness because if you look at points, blocked shots, assists, ta/ga, hits, shooting percentage, advanced stats etc.

It refutes all this parroting. Dumba has never been a high level defender but he brings a lot more to the table with other things and yet ppl mercilessly crap on him which seems pretty uninformed to me.

 

M, I know you like/love Dumba, but all the stats you provide never made me feel any better when he never passed my eye test watching the game. I mean, watching him individually, not the game.

The turnovers that led to scores, his on ice positioning, out of positioning, gap control, approach and getting beat numerous times, leaving his D partners out to dry, penalties, putting our team in penalty kill for ridiculous penalties. I acknowledge your points of blocked shots and working the corners, did I love his physicality, VERY MUCH SO, but it wasn't enough to make up for the shortcomings.

The other piece of this was his timing when doing so, it killed us for momentum. His shot has never been the same and I wished he would have changed his game to fit his strengths, because he was never gonna be the same Dumba we saw back 5 years ago which he was trying to do every game.

Nothing personal, just another perspective, I'm just ready to move on from him.

[Protec]

I’m sure there will be some settling in with the defense minus Dumba. Pairings might work straight away. Within a couple real games we’ll see what’s working or not. I like the Wild’s D-core. The Wild cards for me is the offense and toughness for Faber and the ability to defend by Addison. Obviously, Merrill and Goligoski are gonna be needed at times so hopefully they’re ready to go. 
 

Spurgeon could play with anyone but since his pairing with Middleton was good so they can always fall back to that if chemistry lacks.

[Will D. Ness]

Dumba, warts and all, still did bring toughness to the d core that was lacking and will be lacking even more this season.

I hope he shines in Arizona though and his play last season wasn't contract year exception.  He is a good dude.

[Up North Guy]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:23 PM, Mateo3xm said:

Maybe, maybe not. Don’t you think labeling Dumba as DumbaSS is?  I think it’s more so laziness because if you look at points, blocked shots, assists, ta/ga, hits, shooting percentage, advanced stats etc.

It refutes all this parroting. Dumba has never been a high level defender but he brings a lot more to the table with other things and yet ppl mercilessly crap on him which seems pretty uninformed to me.

 

Dumbas twitter handle was @Dumba55. It was his joke not the fans. Again, a bit harsh.

[Mateo3xm]

On 9/14/2023 at 3:41 PM, vonlonster67 said:

It's like talking to the wall...

I could say the same to you there Von.

Stats don’t lie. 

[Mateo3xm]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:39 AM, Will D. Ness said:

Dumba, warts and all, still did bring toughness to the d core that was lacking and will be lacking even more this season.

I hope he shines in Arizona though and his play last season wasn't contract year exception.  He is a good dude.

Exactly and that’s why it’s so irritating.

doesn’t much matter anymore but he was nowhere near as bad as people were claiming him to be.

[vonlonster67]

3 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

I could say the same to you there Von.

Stats don’t lie. 

Agree to disagree