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  • The Case For the Wild To Play Spurgeon and Brodin Together


    Image courtesy of Charles LeClaire-USA Today Sports
    Tony Abbott

    Dean Evason's Minnesota Wild teams seem to buy into the philosophy of spreading the wealth. Back in the days when the Wild enjoyed having Kirill Kaprizov, Kevin Fiala, and Joel Eriksson Ek on the same team, he gave them each their own line. Over his entire tenure, he's had two of the premiere shutdown defensemen in hockey in Jonas Brodin and Jared Spurgeon, and he's kept them both on separate pairings.

    There's a good logic to this: By keeping the best players separated, a team can maximize the amount of time they have at least one of their best players on the ice. It also helps that the Wild have had Brodin with veteran defenseman Matt Dumba and the stability of Ryan Suter and Jake Middleton to play with Spurgeon.

    Now that Dumba's moved on to the Arizona Coyotes, Brodin is in need of a new partner. Most assume that Brock Faber will step right into that role and be a one-for-one Dumba replacement on the Wild's shutdown pairing. Faber might just have what it takes to do that and thrive as a rookie.

    Evason has another option up his sleeve, though. He can also decide to load up his top pairing and play Brodin and Spurgeon together. In theory, this would work like a souped-up Brodin-Dumba pairing. Spurgeon can log heavy minutes while having both more offensive and defensive capability than Dumba had at his disposal. Minnesota could spend half the game throwing a pair of mobile defensemen who give up almost nothing in their own zone.

    Is it worth it to load up that top pair, though? History says yes, in more ways than one.

    For one, Spurgeon and Brodin have played together for a small portion of this last decade. They've cleared 100 5-on-5 minutes in their career just once (363 in 2017-18). But in total, it amounts to 814 5-on-5 minutes since Brodin broke into the league. How did they do?

    Pretty well, thanks for asking. The two out-scored their opponents 45-37 while controlling a massive 57.7% of the expected goals share. It's gotten even better lately. In 190 minutes over these past two years, Brodin and Spurgeon have controlled 60.1% of expected goals at 5-on-5 play. Considering that they're often used in tandem as a nuclear option when defending a late lead, those stats are quite impressive.

    Their personal history suggests that in a good season, these two could top the 60% expected goal share threshold for a year. If they can do that, that bodes really well for them, looking at league history. Since the Analytics Era started in 2007-08, just 12 teams have iced a defensive pairing for over 600 5-on-5 minutes while controlling 60% or more of the expected goals. Their track record is staggering, as you'll see here.

    image.png

    Eleven of those teams made the playoffs, and that's just the beginning of their successes. We can see that eight of them won a playoff round, with five reaching the Conference Final, three advancing to the Cup Final, and two winning a Cup. Having that kind of defensive pair working for you is about the biggest guarantee to make the playoffs in hockey, with these teams averaging 105 points.

    Of course, it's not a guarantee. Let's say an awkward hello to the 2016-17 Wild and spend the rest of the party trying desperately to avoid eye contact.

    But hey! That was in the old days. Before Kaprizov and Boldy injected some star power into the lineup. Eriksson Ek had just 18 games of NHL experience back then. You can reasonably think that the Wild are in a better position to take a dominant defense pairing further than they did before. Especially when Filip Gustavsson, who looks much less like a "system" goalie than his predecessor Devan Dubnyk, is in net.

    The question is, can you move the Jenga piece that is Brodin to the top lever of the Wild defense without the whole thing collapsing? On one hand, you might not care if you can more or less count on the other team to never score for half the game. Still, Evason's inclination towards balance is reasonable, so this needs to be considered.

    We can't know for sure until we see it in action, but on paper, it's possible. Spurgeon and Brodin are going to suck up the most important minutes, at least at home. Middleton should be a good stay-at-home defensive partner to Faber, as he was to Spurgeon.

    In fact, having a defense-first partner could help the Wild's long-term future, giving Faber more puck touches and forcing him to develop the transition and offensive parts of his game. If he can learn the ropes in more sheltered minutes, rather than having his No. 1 job being to shut down the Connor McDavids of the world, that might be the ideal place for him to be.

    There just doesn't seem to be much downside to loading up that top pairing, and the experiment seems worthy. If Brodin and Spurgeon can work together in such a way that they're controlling 60% of the 5-on-5 chances, that has massive potential for the Wild's success, even in this cap-strapped season. Besides, at the end of the day, they'll still be able to go back to spreading the wealth any time they want.

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    Could certainly see this playing out at some point during the year. Especially if the team can trust Faber to hold down the fort on his own. Leaves Middelton kinda out of place but the Wild could benefit from him playing a little lower in the lineup. 

    Are you concerned at all with Spurgeon's age and a proposed uptick in minutes?

    P.S.

    Rafalski and Lidstrom are so sick 

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    20 minutes ago, Luke Sims said:

    Leaves Middelton kinda out of place but the Wild could benefit from him playing a little lower in the lineup. 

    Are you concerned at all with Spurgeon's age and a proposed uptick in Minutes?

    Mix and match D pairs later in games to give Midds more ice-time and less ice-time for Tank.

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    I'm in the camp of keeping them separate at least initially to keep the pairings more balanced. If a situation late in the game calls for a shutdown then sure pair them up.

    Both Spurge & Brodin are strong enough defenders to mask or coverup their partners weaknesses to an extent. Like the idea of Faber being a "plug & play" for Dumba. Faber showed he is a strong defender in his own right but learning under the tutelage of Brodin is only going to make him better. While Brodin is on the "second pair" he is often tasked with handling the players most 1st pairings match up against. IDK I just like the idea of being more balanced in the pairings.

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    Tony I'm in to try this and see if it produces. I really want to see Faber expand his game with the Wild, he's not just a stay at home defenceman. I don't believe we've even seen the tip of the iceberg yet with his offensive game.

    Towards the end of the playoffs I saw Faber start to wander into the zone with the puck and look pretty damn comfortable against Dallas. This was also not uncommon when he was with the Gophers, driving into the zone to the point for a shot or coasting to the back of the net and pass for a great look or shot and even some goals.

    Middy would definitely give him that opportunity and it would flip the tables if the wild could do that across the D grouping with Brodin, Faber and Addy!

    Edited by vonlonster67
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    Last season, Lambos was one of the final cuts the Wild made. What happens if Lambos has grown well in his final year of jrs.? Would that be enough for Goligoski to hang up the skates or head into Shooter's office seeing if there is a fit for him elsewhere in the league?  Maybe he just wants to head home to family, or retire from playing and join the front office?

    Pairings under this would look like: 

    • Brodin-Spurgeon
    • Middleton-Addison
    • Lambos-Faber
    • Merrill

    Under this scenario, I have the Wild opting to call up Hunt when someone gets injured, but they want him playing 20 minutes a game. Also note that the above pairings are not in order, except for Merrill who would be the clear #7. 

    I don't know about you guys, but to me, this defense looks pretty good on paper.

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    Not sure the Wild are capable of surviving a season with Spurge/Brodin getting 25+ minutes a game.  My hope:

    1)  Middleton needs to up his game one more small step.  Don't do too much.

    2)  Faber needs to come in and play like he did in the spring.

    3)  Addy needs a really good summer beefing himself up and studying the D zone.

    4)  Goligoski needs to be miffed about his play and come into camp in shape and showing he deserves more minutes.

    5)  Merrill will be himself on the 3rd pairing.

    Dean should grade the players and give the most minutes to the best grades.  Let the fight for minutes commence. 

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    I don’t know. On the road, coaches would just wait for Spurgeon and Brodin to skate to the bench to put out their first lines. In Edmonton, that would mean 20 minutes of McDavid vs. Mids and a rookie. That’s a pretty tough ask. 

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    59 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Last season, Lambos was one of the final cuts the Wild made. What happens if Lambos has grown well in his final year of jrs.? Would that be enough for Goligoski to hang up the skates or head into Shooter's office seeing if there is a fit for him elsewhere in the league?  Maybe he just wants to head home to family, or retire from playing and join the front office?

    Pairings under this would look like: 

    • Brodin-Spurgeon
    • Middleton-Addison
    • Lambos-Faber
    • Merrill

    Under this scenario, I have the Wild opting to call up Hunt when someone gets injured, but they want him playing 20 minutes a game. Also note that the above pairings are not in order, except for Merrill who would be the clear #7. 

    I don't know about you guys, but to me, this defense looks pretty good on paper.

    You forgot the DE factor....

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    18 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

    You forgot the DE factor....

    I was under the impression that Evason was in charge of cutting the roster down to 22. The fact that Evason kept Lambos around so long should indicate that he liked what he saw. It is true that Evason prefers vets, but should Lambos outplay Merrill (which shouldn't be that hard), and Goligoski (a very possible outcome) pretty badly, I could see him making the jump. 

    1 thing Lambos has in his favor is a ready NHL body. He could still use some filling out, but he's pushing 200 lbs. already, so he won't get pushed around. Having the elite skating of the 3rd pairing could be very interesting, especially considering their combined cap hit is under $2.5m. 

    Goligoski, I believe, still has value to the organization, but the on ice value is deteriorating fairly quickly! I would feel comfortable with Goligoski in a role of mentor throughout the defensive corps in the organization. I could see him working with both Iowa teams and visiting other leagues to keep tabs on our defending prospects. He has a lot of experience to offer, and can probably talk to the kids better than Housley at this point.

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    45 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I was under the impression that Evason was in charge of cutting the roster down to 22. The fact that Evason kept Lambos around so long should indicate that he liked what he saw. It is true that Evason prefers vets, but should Lambos outplay Merrill (which shouldn't be that hard), and Goligoski (a very possible outcome) pretty badly, I could see him making the jump. 

    1 thing Lambos has in his favor is a ready NHL body. He could still use some filling out, but he's pushing 200 lbs. already, so he won't get pushed around. Having the elite skating of the 3rd pairing could be very interesting, especially considering their combined cap hit is under $2.5m. 

    Goligoski, I believe, still has value to the organization, but the on ice value is deteriorating fairly quickly! I would feel comfortable with Goligoski in a role of mentor throughout the defensive corps in the organization. I could see him working with both Iowa teams and visiting other leagues to keep tabs on our defending prospects. He has a lot of experience to offer, and can probably talk to the kids better than Housley at this point.

    I think the D is set if everyone is healthy coming out of training camp, assuming they eventually come to terms with Addison, but they will inevitably need a defenseman when someone gets dinged up. Lambos is the one guy that if they put him on the ice with the Wild, they may not send him back down. I wouldn't be completely shocked if he's with the Wild to start the year.

    They might still give Hunt the first shot if it's early in the year, but we'll see.

    Goligoski could definitely be a veteran for the young guys to lean on when they need that. We'll see if he and Fleury stick around for consulting or coaching roles when they hang up the skates.

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    21 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Last season, Lambos was one of the final cuts the Wild made. What happens if Lambos has grown well in his final year of jrs.? Would that be enough for Goligoski to hang up the skates or head into Shooter's office seeing if there is a fit for him elsewhere in the league?  Maybe he just wants to head home to family, or retire from playing and join the front office?

    Pairings under this would look like: 

    • Brodin-Spurgeon
    • Middleton-Addison
    • Lambos-Faber
    • Merrill

    Under this scenario, I have the Wild opting to call up Hunt when someone gets injured, but they want him playing 20 minutes a game. Also note that the above pairings are not in order, except for Merrill who would be the clear #7. 

    I don't know about you guys, but to me, this defense looks pretty good on paper.

    I think Goli showed last year that he refuses to hang up the skates and wants to play. If Lambos is capable of making the jump I might like to see Merrill sent to the A to give us cap space. He would only count as $50,000 against the cap instead of $1.2mil down there and would give us room to bring Lambos and a 13th forward up which could be very valuable looking at the cap situation. Goli stays on as a 7th defender in a pinch and we get a chance to bring up Walker or Beckman to play around with line pairings!

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    On 9/13/2023 at 10:40 AM, FredJohnson said:

    I can see this happening now that Jo Bro doesn't have to babysit Dumba55. 

    Brodin never had to “babysit” Dumba.

    when he was more offensive prior to the injury, sure Brodin covered for him at times but that’s a common occurrence when you have a defensive defender and an offensive defenseman. Dumba had 50pts at 24 years old. 
    His offense made up for Brodins lack of offense and Brodie’s defense made up for Dumbas lack of defense.

    together they made a very good defensive pairing especially the last few years.

    The narrative that Brodin had to babysit Dumba gets parroted by misinformed/ignorant people.

    For some reason he’s been the team scapegoat.

    plenty of articles even on Hockey Wilderness have disapproved of most of that.

    If you really think that pairing was only good because of Brodin you’re sorely mistaken.

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    26 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    I think Goli showed last year that he refuses to hang up the skates and wants to play. If Lambos is capable of making the jump I might like to see Merrill sent to the A to give us cap space. He would only count as $50,000 against the cap instead of $1.2mil down there and would give us room to bring Lambos and a 13th forward up which could be very valuable looking at the cap situation. Goli stays on as a 7th defender in a pinch and we get a chance to bring up Walker or Beckman to play around with line pairings!

    It may be true about Goligoski, but what we saw last season was a pretty harsh decline. If that trend continues, he may realize in training camp that it's time. Or, Shooter might help him make the decision by insisting that it is time. Typically, the player is the last to know it's over, they don't see it and chalk it up to bad breaks. 

    I like the veteran presence aspect, but we've got that in Spurgeon and Brodin. Goose would be far more useful in a mentorship role capacity paying specific attention to Des Moines. One thing I do see is that not all of the kids will be playing in Des Moines, so it's nice having the E franchise close by. Just for playing time, I could see a shuffle going on. Helping those guys too, would have to be on a defensive coordinator's list. (From the stats, it looked like the Heartlanders were pretty brutal defensively)

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    On 9/14/2023 at 2:40 PM, Up North Guy said:

    A bit harsh don't you think?

    Maybe, maybe not. Don’t you think labeling Dumba as DumbaSS is?  I think it’s more so laziness because if you look at points, blocked shots, assists, ta/ga, hits, shooting percentage, advanced stats etc.

    It refutes all this parroting. Dumba has never been a high level defender but he brings a lot more to the table with other things and yet ppl mercilessly crap on him which seems pretty uninformed to me.

     

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    39 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

    Maybe, maybe not. Don’t you think labeling Dumba as DumbaSS is?  I think it’s more so laziness because if you look at points, blocked shots, assists, ta/ga, hits, shooting percentage, advanced stats etc.

    It refutes all this parroting. Dumba has never been a high level defender but he brings a lot more to the table with other things and yet ppl mercilessly crap on him which seems pretty uninformed to me.

     

    M, I know you like/love Dumba, but all the stats you provide never made me feel any better when he never passed my eye test watching the game. I mean, watching him individually, not the game.

    The turnovers that led to scores, his on ice positioning, out of positioning, gap control, approach and getting beat numerous times, leaving his D partners out to dry, penalties, putting our team in penalty kill for ridiculous penalties. I acknowledge your points of blocked shots and working the corners, did I love his physicality, VERY MUCH SO, but it wasn't enough to make up for the shortcomings.

    The other piece of this was his timing when doing so, it killed us for momentum. His shot has never been the same and I wished he would have changed his game to fit his strengths, because he was never gonna be the same Dumba we saw back 5 years ago which he was trying to do every game.

    Nothing personal, just another perspective, I'm just ready to move on from him.

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    I’m sure there will be some settling in with the defense minus Dumba. Pairings might work straight away. Within a couple real games we’ll see what’s working or not. I like the Wild’s D-core. The Wild cards for me is the offense and toughness for Faber and the ability to defend by Addison. Obviously, Merrill and Goligoski are gonna be needed at times so hopefully they’re ready to go. 
     

    Spurgeon could play with anyone but since his pairing with Middleton was good so they can always fall back to that if chemistry lacks.

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    Dumba, warts and all, still did bring toughness to the d core that was lacking and will be lacking even more this season.

    I hope he shines in Arizona though and his play last season wasn't contract year exception.  He is a good dude.

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    On 9/19/2023 at 2:23 PM, Mateo3xm said:

    Maybe, maybe not. Don’t you think labeling Dumba as DumbaSS is?  I think it’s more so laziness because if you look at points, blocked shots, assists, ta/ga, hits, shooting percentage, advanced stats etc.

    It refutes all this parroting. Dumba has never been a high level defender but he brings a lot more to the table with other things and yet ppl mercilessly crap on him which seems pretty uninformed to me.

     

    Dumbas twitter handle was @Dumba55. It was his joke not the fans. Again, a bit harsh.

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    On 9/20/2023 at 9:39 AM, Will D. Ness said:

    Dumba, warts and all, still did bring toughness to the d core that was lacking and will be lacking even more this season.

    I hope he shines in Arizona though and his play last season wasn't contract year exception.  He is a good dude.

    Exactly and that’s why it’s so irritating.

    doesn’t much matter anymore but he was nowhere near as bad as people were claiming him to be.

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    On 9/20/2023 at 2:49 PM, Up North Guy said:

    Dumbas twitter handle was @Dumba55. It was his joke not the fans. Again, a bit harsh.

    That’s your opinion, I don’t really think it was too harsh.

    If it was, I’m sure the mods would let me know. I’ve heard much harsher stuff on here.

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