Article: Extension Watch: Is Marcus Foligno A Necessary Piece For A Cup Run?

[Tony Abbott]

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[CoolHandL]

If not him, I think someone like him is necessary. No matter if he pots 7 or 23, he energizes the locker room and is the most willing fighter on the team (unless Maroon has something to say about that this season). I always have so much fun watching him scrap and then pump up the crowd right afterwards.

Even in today's speedy game, teams still often need big, veteran, heart-and-soul guys like him who can get their team more invested the game. Granted it can have the opposite effect too, but a playoff game 7 might be decided by his decision to put it on the line like he does.

Edited August 30, 2023 by CoolHandL

[Pewterschmidt]

If there’s a reasonable market value for Foligno in trade market, I say go get it.  2nd round pick, absolutely.  3rd rd pick, yes.  4th, might as well keep him here

[Up North Guy]

Moose is on a time watch. His time is about up. I could see a 1-2 year extension at no more than $2M AAV. I love watching him play but it looked obvious to me that his time is about done.

[mnfaninnc]

22 minutes ago, Up North Guy said:

Moose is on a time watch. His time is about up. I could see a 1-2 year extension at no more than $2M AAV. I love watching him play but it looked obvious to me that his time is about done.

When I see someone quote Evolving Hockey for salary predictions, I think inflation or 2029 cap numbers. They always come in high. I believe 3 X $2-2.5m is the range we're looking for. 

There is Zuccarello, Hartman, and Foligno that are coming off the books this year. 1 guy can be kept. I would argue that Foligno is that guy, mainly because we don't have someone, in the system, ready to take his spot. This team needs a few heavyweights, and Ohgren is merely a light heavyweight. 

But, we also need to temper our expectations. Foligno is not the scorer he was 2 seasons ago. He's not as horrible as last year either, but his skill will be in decline. His role will then switch back over to the more physical side of the game. Guys like Deslauriers, Reaves, and Maroon have been brought in so that Foligno doesn't have to be the policeman. He was more valuable on the ice than serving 5. Well, that will change, somewhat. He will be that guy expected to stand up for his teammates going forward. He adds to the culture and locker room. And, with the letter, he is designated to go get his pound of flesh when necessary. 

Zuccarello is replaceable, probably not right away, but we have replacement players for that position. Hartman is a tough case, as he has also been gritty and is younger. Quite frankly, though, Hartsy has priced himself out of here. And, he just doesn't have the same intimidation factor that Foligno has. Hartsy is more of a rat than a giant bear. We need the bear. 

I believe this coming season, Foligno rebounds in the points department. Don't get all excited about it, because those points will be less of a priority on an extension. He can still be a valuable 4th line player, and one who can move up a level or 2 if the situation calls for it. In the lineup, I think Duhaime has more skill and will be elevated. In fact, Duhaime might get a contract similar to the one Foligno has now if he continues his improvement trajectory.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

One big thing I would like to key in on is the reffing in playoffs has changed. The "let them play" mentality has gone by the wayside and skill is prevailing in playoffs now, not grit. I'm not saying it doesn't take grit to grind out the busy postseason but it is less and less about punishing the other team and more about outplaying the other team. SOG, sustained zone time and pace of game seem to mean far more than hits or fights.

There will always be a place for a bruiser in hockey and a fight can still turn a game around but taking call after call like Foligno did this past year hamstrung our team. I'm not going to argue whether or not he deserved some calls he got but the fact is he racked up 35 penalty mins in 83 mins of total ice time. He had more minutes in the box than he threw hits (27). If we are going to advance past the first round, we can't have someone being a liability like that. The Wild are known as a gritty team and will be called as such in playoffs, they have to stay disciplined. In 22 games, Vegas had 358 penalty minutes or about 16.27 minutes per game. Florida had 375 in 21 games played or 17.85 mins/game. Dallas had 251 in 19 games or 13.21 mins/game. Carolina had 139 in 15 games or 9.26mins/game. The Wild had 121mins in 6 games or 20.1666 per game. <--- That is an issue! While it is true that both Florida and Vegas were the more rough and tumble teams that made it into the finals, their rates are still 1-2 penalties a game below the Wild (with much better PK and PP).

All this being said, it is time for a switch in mindset. I love bash and crash hockey but it is not how you win a cup. Grit doesn't win cups. While other commenters may fear that we don't have enforcers coming up through our system, I'm ecstatic that even the larger guys in our prospect pool are skilled and play a good two way game without racking up PIM. 

There will always be a place for tillies and big hits in hockey. It keeps teams energized, fans glued to the game and the game exciting. The time is coming that it becomes less of a focal point.

[M_Nels]

44 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

There will always be a place for a bruiser in hockey and a fight can still turn a game around but taking call after call like Foligno did this past year hamstrung our team. I'm not going to argue whether or not he deserved some calls he got but the fact is he racked up 35 penalty mins in 83 mins of total ice time. He had more minutes in the box than he threw hits (27). If we are going to advance past the first round, we can't have someone being a liability like that. The Wild are known as a gritty team and will be called as such in playoffs, they have to stay disciplined. In 22 games, Vegas had 358 penalty minutes or about 16.27 minutes per game. Florida had 375 in 21 games played or 17.85 mins/game. Dallas had 251 in 19 games or 13.21 mins/game. Carolina had 139 in 15 games or 9.26mins/game. The Wild had 121mins in 6 games or 20.1666 per game. <--- That is an issue! While it is true that both Florida and Vegas were the more rough and tumble teams that made it into the finals, their rates are still 1-2 penalties a game below the Wild (with much better PK and PP).

Spot on. Moose was a definite liability in the Dallas series. If the trend continues to start this season I wouldn't be shocked if they strip his A.

Moose is a great team player and locker-room presence but if his point production continues to slip his grit is replaceable with younger/cheaper talent. Leadership is hard to replace but I also don't think we're going to win a cup with aging, gritty, vocal leaders/veterans that lack production and are a liability on defense and in the penalty box.

I hope Moose can have a big bounce back year but we'll see. 

[vonlonster67]

Moose is facing a predicament and the past two years are reflective of a few things. Injuries seem to be the biggest, my biggest concern moving forward at his age. Several personnel line changes as he's been all over the lines up and down. He's not shown offensively, slowing defensively, and no composure. Do we really think he's gonna rebound 200%, probably not.

I don't see him as a priority for BG and there is no way I pay him anywhere north of $2.35/yr. and then no more than two years.  He is supposed to be leading this team (A), but BG continues to bring in veteran voices to fire up the team, Reaves, Maroon. His value is what, to set in the penalty box, and after last year, Reavo being a NON FACTOR come playoff time. Last year's playoff debacle deserved or not with the ref's happened and continued. It's not an excuse and just doesn't have me singing Moose praise.

If the opportunity arises to trade and we're outside the playoffs looking in and he tradeable, I go for it. Moose is replaceable and not a BG priority even if that player is not in our organization. Who even heard of Middy before he came here? I know the Wild have someone pegged, younger, that they could sign for the same dollars as Moose and get the same return.

Moose is one of my favorites and I will always cherish the memory of his Superman punch FOREVER!

[Imyourhuckleberry]

I would definitely miss his presence on the Wild. I suspect the Wild will wait to see how his season plays out and let him make his decision in free agency, but if things start well, perhaps an extension around $5M for 2 years($2.5M/year) gets worked out.

Not sure Maroon will be back next season, so having Foligno around to easily fill in on 3rd/4th line could still be nice if Beckman or another young player steps up to take some minutes among the top 3 lines.

Possible he is traded or walks away in free agency, but he's been a great player for the Wild and it's hard for me to fault him for playing hard in the playoffs against Dallas, even if the refs continued to punish him for good hard play.

The refs were wrong, and asking him to play soft wasn't going to win that series either. Dallas had more healthy talent than the Wild.

[JJwild]

Merrell needs to knock some sense into Addison, wild are in no position to dream till cap is cleared up. Gonna need to keep old folks on skates for a few more years. Whatever they decide till then is an inconvenience for them and pain for us. I'm just going to enjoy the ice cold beer numbing the losses, hoping to see a mean bone breaking mentality and mind boggling goals. Stanley is still a few years away.

[FredJohnson]

No.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

2 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

Moose is one of my favorites and I will always cherish the memory of his Superman punch FOREVER!

Regardless of what happens, that punch was epic! 

[UncleWalt]

If Foligno gets a three year deal, you congratulate him. The Wild got Maroon for a 7th rounder at $800k. That’s the going rate for fourth liners. 

[Pewterschmidt]

7 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think Duhaime has more skill

Duhzy is our Foligno in waiting.  Big body, understands his role (read little offensive upside) and a gamer.  And $2M cheaper

[vonlonster67]

9 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Duhzy is our Foligno in waiting.  Big body, understands his role (read little offensive upside) and a gamer.  And $2M cheaper

Agreed, $2M cheaper this year.

If Dewey potentially sees time with Rossi's apples, numbers and dollars will go up.

I would bet he already got a wink wink deal from BG this year because of Gus' deal and will get a nice raise next year for what we want to pay Moose @ $2-2.25M, but for 3 years. That could go up to $2.5 -2.75M if he blows up.

Love his fire and will, smaller Moose package, same intensity. Only small negative is his repeat concussion history which is scary. Its not worth the after affects for him if this continues to occur. 

[vonlonster67]

7 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I would definitely miss his presence on the Wild. I suspect the Wild will wait to see how his season plays out and let him make his decision in free agency, but if things start well, perhaps an extension around $5M for 2 years($2.5M/year) gets worked out.

Not sure Maroon will be back next season, so having Foligno around to easily fill in on 3rd/4th line could still be nice if Beckman or another young player steps up to take some minutes among the top 3 lines.

Possible he is traded or walks away in free agency, but he's been a great player for the Wild and it's hard for me to fault him for playing hard in the playoffs against Dallas, even if the refs continued to punish him for good hard play.

The refs were wrong, and asking him to play soft wasn't going to win that series either. Dallas had more healthy talent than the Wild.

The referees definitely made terrible calls, but good teams and players adapt to the game and how it's officiated in any sport. Moose lost his composure as a player and leader and DE highlighted it with ever reaction and presser. The team followed that example and circled the drain.

Moose still could have played physical, but smart hockey like Dallas did.

When your focus is the refs, your never gonna win the game.  We got outcoached in a lot of categories, but that one was most evident. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by vonlonster67

[mnfaninnc]

35 minutes in penalties is not the amount of time that the Wild were shorthanded. We know via replay that 2 minors were simply ref phantom calls, but 10 minute misconducts for, essentially, being on the bench, account for more minutes. 

It probably wasn't smart for Foligno to call out the refs as he put a target on his back. They responded with retribution for the comments.

I will maintain my stance that unless referees know you have the capability of throwing the game into utter chaos where they lose control of the game, only then will you change the current situation. 

That fear was the motivator in the 10 minute misconducts. When is the last time we've had a clear "boys will be boys" type of game. I know it would be fitting to do it on '80s night, but the Bruins and Flyers have been riding this reputation since the '70s, occasionally sprinkling in reminders that they are the Bruins and Flyers and could lose it at any moment. Teams like this get the calls. 

The regular season is a marathon race. You will have at least 5 stinkers in those 82 games. There are some bad losses. Why not use some of those stinkers and just go completely ape $%^t on the other team, specifically if it is a division matchup. I would think that Nashville would comply. Meltdowns when done all the time don't have as much of an affect. It only takes 2-3 of these where the game gets out of hand and the officials have to be investigated, answer questions to the league and get reviewed, not to mention a mountain of paperwork. 

Yes, it would be completely staged, and yes, you target certain referees. None of this faceoff, circle around crap, just some line brawls where you end up having a lot of bench space and finish the game with 2 lines and your backup 'tender. Referees are not shown up at postgame interviews, they are shown up when their authority is neutered on the ice, when linesmen have to get their hands dirty for awhile. And, yes, it's a spectacle that will go viral. Once on the road and once at home is needed. I'd target Winnipeg for the home one. 

[vonlonster67]

39 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

35 minutes in penalties is not the amount of time that the Wild were shorthanded. We know via replay that 2 minors were simply ref phantom calls, but 10 minute misconducts for, essentially, being on the bench, account for more minutes. 

It probably wasn't smart for Foligno to call out the refs as he put a target on his back. They responded with retribution for the comments.

I will maintain my stance that unless referees know you have the capability of throwing the game into utter chaos where they lose control of the game, only then will you change the current situation. 

That fear was the motivator in the 10 minute misconducts. When is the last time we've had a clear "boys will be boys" type of game. I know it would be fitting to do it on '80s night, but the Bruins and Flyers have been riding this reputation since the '70s, occasionally sprinkling in reminders that they are the Bruins and Flyers and could lose it at any moment. Teams like this get the calls. 

The regular season is a marathon race. You will have at least 5 stinkers in those 82 games. There are some bad losses. Why not use some of those stinkers and just go completely ape $%^t on the other team, specifically if it is a division matchup. I would think that Nashville would comply. Meltdowns when done all the time don't have as much of an affect. It only takes 2-3 of these where the game gets out of hand and the officials have to be investigated, answer questions to the league and get reviewed, not to mention a mountain of paperwork. 

Yes, it would be completely staged, and yes, you target certain referees. None of this faceoff, circle around crap, just some line brawls where you end up having a lot of bench space and finish the game with 2 lines and your backup 'tender. Referees are not shown up at postgame interviews, they are shown up when their authority is neutered on the ice, when linesmen have to get their hands dirty for awhile. And, yes, it's a spectacle that will go viral. Once on the road and once at home is needed. I'd target Winnipeg for the home one. 

Logan Stanley it is! 🤬

[MNCountryLife]

Foligno has been a big part of the Wild since he joined.  Would be a bummer to see him go.  I think he still has a couple of really good years in him.  He plays the penalty kill, has a solid 200 foot game and sticks up for teammates.    Personally I hope we sign him to an additional 2 years.  

[PNW Wild]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:53 AM, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

All this being said, it is time for a switch in mindset. I love bash and crash hockey but it is not how you win a cup. Grit doesn't win cups. While other commenters may fear that we don't have enforcers coming up through our system, I'm ecstatic that even the larger guys in our prospect pool are skilled and play a good two way game without racking up PIM.

Right on, if “grit” and physicality was what won the SC, the 07-08 Wild would have been an all time great team.

Grit properly understood is the ability to win puck battles, to go go to corners, to fight in front of the net, etc. it doesn’t mean throwing the gloves. You need to be able to win the board battles and the like, but being physical just to be physical isn’t the answer.