Article: Paul Fenton Was Right About the Wild's Old Core

[Luke Sims]

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[FredJohnson]

That Nino trade: woof!

[Protec]

Fenton was a catalyst for change in MN. He showed up and doofus'd the whole situation and next thing you know Parise is complaining in the media and the drama level was at an all-time high. The team had no projections of being much better and Dubnyk was by then, Swiss cheese.

Fenton's Officer Doofy approach to being GM was what prompted the change and big moves to build what the Wild currently have while fending off penalties. Fenton can have my pat on the back because due to his doofiness and ultimate failure, the Wild turned the page on an era.

[Protec]

Nino was not the problem. Coyle has been good in a support role in Boston but not a superstar like Burns was for a period of time. The Granlund trade while his Wife was in labor wasn't good, but the Wild got Fiala. I think it was lucky cause Nashville was beginning to chase it then too.

Fenton tried to trade Zucker and Donato was okay but the real core problems was solved when Guerin bought out Parise and Suter. The Wild now have a group that is malleable and hungry with talent and that's building. Before Guerin, they were chasing it way too hard. We could sense things were wrong for awhile. Looking back, obviously the Wild were at a fork in the road either way with the whole group. Parise & Suter sure appear to have been at the root of the problems.

[vonlonster67]

I don't know where to start or what to say in a reply other than to say I just want to forget!

"IBGIT"

[mnfaninnc]

Fenton had the right idea, the core needed to go. He picked the wrong core. Had he chosen the older, more accomplished players to jettison, I think we could have had a better transition. 

Granny while his wife was in labor was brutal, equally Nino for Rask, and every other GM knew Rask could be had for a bag of pucks!

I think if we could have kept the guys we jettisoned, we'd be in better shape right now ready to make the run. But, keeping the older guys for one more run was terrible. 

And, at the time, you could see their speed slowing down. The 2019 TDL would have been a great place to get rid of some of the older players, before Covid was even a word anyone knew. Maybe someone even takes Parise and Suter off our hands as the league was healthy and the cap was expected to rise. I contend that the players that were sent packing were never really given a chance to be meaningful, a chance they had earned with their play. 

It would have been nice to get better assets for them.

[mnfaninnc]

I'm not sure where to put this, it's probably in Thomas' wheelhouse. 

The Carolina Hurricanes and their AHL affiliate, the Chicago Wolves, have parted ways. The Wolves plan to play as an independent. I can't imagine that this will give them much talent.

On Carolina's side, they are loaning some players to AHL clubs and have quite a few in Europe. For a team with a rich farm system, this seems a bit odd. I suppose this happened late, and Carolina had no shot at finding another AHL affiliate. They kind of blew it when they chose the Wolves over Charlotte. 

I'd anticipate that they will look towards the Seattle franchise to see if they have holes in their AHL affiliate, and who knows who else. There are several teams that could use an infusion of AHL talent since their prospect pools are not good. But, what happens when you run into the injury bug? You can't just pull a guy from Sweden to come back for 2 weeks!

As a GM, I would want to keep my prospects close (Raleigh and Charlotte are about a 2 hour drive from each other) like the Wild have done with Des Moines and the Heartlanders. I would also want to check in on them, unannounced, from time to time and constantly have guys in charge of different aspects of the roster moving around to coach the organization. What happened to Carolina seems to be opposite of this.

[Beast]

Coyle had a decent year last year.  Not a star by any means.  But, a big bodied third line center with around 50 points, killed penalties, won faceoffs, and played in all 82 games (plus the playoffs) for one of the most prolific teams in hockey history (in the regular season)…..

He’s certainly not what we were hoping here….but we sure could’ve used a guy like him last year.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Beast

[Quebec1648]

Did I misread the article, or did to refer to Granluad as a Swede? My Finnish half feels this typo should be corrected. 

In regards to Fenton, he did what owner Craig Leopold wanted him to do. Leopold thought the Wild needed a tweaking operation as opposed to a full rebuild. It was Guerin who had to do the tough job of explaining to the owner, that the existing roster was not going to work.

[Velgey]

11 hours ago, Beast said:

Coyle had a decent year last year.  Not a star by any means.  But, a big bodied third line center with around 50 points, killed penalties, won faceoffs, and played in all 82 games (plus the playoffs) for one of the most prolific teams in hockey history (in the regular season)…..

I'm good friends with a Bruins fan and his opinion of Coyle (which seems to be shared by many Bruins fans) reminds me of how I always felt about him: he's a good contributor but it often feels there's another gear he rarely taps into. You're glad he's on the team but simultaneously also frustrated by his inability to consistently tap into that higher level. He has the tools to be great, but he lacks some quality that would let him get there.

[Velgey]

17 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Fenton had the right idea, the core needed to go. He picked the wrong core.

Bingo! Imagine an alternative reality where the Wild keep Granlund, Zucker, Nino, and Coyle and instead inject that core with the players you receive from successfully trading Suter and Parise (and maybe Staal and Koivu). Could have been great, but who knows what the Wild would have received if they could even get those guys to ignore their NMCs.

Besides, I think the years playing in the culture of "Suter and Parise (and Staal and Koivu to a lesser extent) make the rules" really damaged the young core's confidence. Being repeatedly forced into the role of supporting player can't be good for their confidence.

[Protec]

 

21 minutes ago, Velgey said:

Bingo! Imagine an alternative reality where the Wild keep Granlund, Zucker, Nino, and Coyle and instead inject that core with the players you receive from successfully trading Suter and Parise (and maybe Staal and Koivu). Could have been great, but who knows what the Wild would have received if they could even get those guys to ignore their NMCs.

Besides, I think the years playing in the culture of "Suter and Parise (and Staal and Koivu to a lesser extent) make the rules" really damaged the young core's confidence. Being repeatedly forced into the role of supporting player can't be good for their confidence.

True. The 11 and 20 Era was toxic. All around. Remember Yeo freaking out and F-Bombing everything. 

Coyle was solid but never gonna breakout guy. The Wild should've been drafting better along the way but I think Parise and Suter were pushing for the limit of contention every year. 

I think there was a point where Guerin had to tell OCL, 11/20 was the root of the problems and doof1 & doof2 XGMCF & XGMPF had no chance and new GMs wouldn't either as long as those guys were trying to puppeteer.

Looks like Guerin was right, OCL wise to listen, and the Wild benefactors of smart management.

[MNCountryLife]

I can't say that I agreed with much of anything that Fenton did.  We always seemed to be giving away solid players for potential players.  BG seems to make trades that doesn't diminish our capacity to compete yet they increase our potential pool.  BG seems to have a real vision of how to construct a team properly.   He also doesn't put all his eggs in one basket. (How many C's did he draft this year).  The next 2 to 6 years are looking good for the Wild.  IBGIT

[TCMooch]

In honor of Mr. Tony "You gotta hand it to Fenton..." 🙂

[MrCheatachu]

Anybody who complains about Guerin not trading Dumba last season or at this seasons TDL need to look at how these three trades panned out.

1. Coyle signed a 6 year, $5.25M AAV contract with his hometown Bruins.  He's currently 31 and has 3 more seasons left on the contract.  Absolutely no way that MN was going to offer that contract, and if we did, 110% of us would be clamoring to dump that contract.  Don't get me wrong, Coyle is a fine player, but his current contract wouldn't fit.  Also, of the three trades, the Donato trade immediately looked like it was the best.  IIRC, in Donuthole's first game here, he got the GWG by actually shooting the puck...something the rest of the team seemed scared to do?
2. The Granny/Fiala trade initally was an absolute stinker.  We traded away a top 6 center for a guy who was a turn-over magnet who did one too many dangles in high danger areas.  It looked like an absolute stinker, but Fiala was still on his ELC.  Then he exploded when he was put on Parise's line.  He also looked like the only guy on the ice that gave a damn during the covid playoffs.  Did Fenton have inside knowledge of the Pred's prospects from his time as AGM?  Probably.  Did we scream that he traded away Granny for a guy he fell in love with from when he was with the Preds?  Yep.  In hindsight, was this a good trade?  Absolutely.
3. Nino/Rask...I got nothing.  This was a stinker anyway you look at it.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, Velgey said:

Bingo! Imagine an alternative reality where the Wild keep Granlund, Zucker, Nino, and Coyle and instead inject that core with the players you receive from successfully trading Suter and Parise (and maybe Staal and Koivu).

If we're going back in time, what if we also erase the move Fletcher made in the expansion draft, essentially giving up an undervalued center in Erik Haula and the insane sweetener of Alex Tuch. We expose Staal and Spurgeon instead (and for argument purposes, McPhee concludes that Spurgeon is too small). 

I would have loved to see what a Kaprizov and Tuch combination would have looked like!

[Velgey]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

If we're going back in time, what if we also erase the move Fletcher made in the expansion draft, essentially giving up an undervalued center in Erik Haula and the insane sweetener of Alex Tuch.

Now that is a fun (but painful) hypothetical. Haula was a workhorse and his wheels meant he was never not a threat with the puck on his stick.

Tuch was the bigger loss. A large player that actually plays like one! He's got skills and knows how to use them undoubtedly, but he actually seems to understand that using the body can unlock opportunities to use those skills rather than trying to use skill to avoid having to resort to the body. I don't know if Tuch would be able to pass with KK the way Zuccarelo does, but what a great triggerman for KK he would be.

[Protec]

4 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

Anybody who complains about Guerin not trading Dumba last season or at this seasons TDL need to look at how these three trades panned out.

1. Coyle signed a 6 year, $5.25M AAV contract with his hometown Bruins.  He's currently 31 and has 3 more seasons left on the contract.  Absolutely no way that MN was going to offer that contract, and if we did, 110% of us would be clamoring to dump that contract.  Don't get me wrong, Coyle is a fine player, but his current contract wouldn't fit.  Also, of the three trades, the Donato trade immediately looked like it was the best.  IIRC, in Donuthole's first game here, he got the GWG by actually shooting the puck...something the rest of the team seemed scared to do?
2. The Granny/Fiala trade initally was an absolute stinker.  We traded away a top 6 center for a guy who was a turn-over magnet who did one too many dangles in high danger areas.  It looked like an absolute stinker, but Fiala was still on his ELC.  Then he exploded when he was put on Parise's line.  He also looked like the only guy on the ice that gave a damn during the covid playoffs.  Did Fenton have inside knowledge of the Pred's prospects from his time as AGM?  Probably.  Did we scream that he traded away Granny for a guy he fell in love with from when he was with the Preds?  Yep.  In hindsight, was this a good trade?  Absolutely.
3. Nino/Rask...I got nothing.  This was a stinker anyway you look at it.

Overall I agree but I think Fenton was looking for less pass/perimeter more drive the net, shooter with Fiala & Granlund. He just got lucky and the Wild got one guy back in all those deals worthwhile from an asset standpoint. Even with Zucker the Wild did just okay. Yet to be determined, but the combination of Parise, Suter, penalties, and the combined returns for many of the Wild's top assets and former top picks did not amount to much good. I would say net loss, beyond debate. They've recovered well, but they essentially blew a decade through circumstances being allowed to determine strategy. I.e. poor management and planning leading to chasing tail.

 

[M_Nels]

3 hours ago, Velgey said:

Now that is a fun (but painful) hypothetical. Haula was a workhorse and his wheels meant he was never not a threat with the puck on his stick.

Tuch was the bigger loss. A large player that actually plays like one! He's got skills and knows how to use them undoubtedly, but he actually seems to understand that using the body can unlock opportunities to use those skills rather than trying to use skill to avoid having to resort to the body. I don't know if Tuch would be able to pass with KK the way Zuccarelo does, but what a great triggerman for KK he would be.

Man looking back giving up Tuch in the expansion draft was such a bad move. Watched him play in Iowa a handful of times and always really liked him. His trajectory in the NHL has only gone up, especially in Buffalo. Man it’d be so nice to have that combo of size and skill on the top line. 

[joebou15]

On 8/18/2023 at 8:44 AM, Velgey said:

I'm good friends with a Bruins fan and his opinion of Coyle (which seems to be shared by many Bruins fans) reminds me of how I always felt about him: he's a good contributor but it often feels there's another gear he rarely taps into. You're glad he's on the team but simultaneously also frustrated by his inability to consistently tap into that higher level. He has the tools to be great, but he lacks some quality that would let him get there.

My thoughts exactly. Pretty sure I wrote the same about Coyle at his trade. He's a nice guy. Someone you'd love to have on the team, but just had issues with consistently playing big-man hockey. We had "The Shift" which ended on a sweet goal by Parise. And His Hands on a sweet goal against Edmonton. But aside from flashes of brilliance, and his ability to play well against the Jets, we just didn't get enough.

I knew he was going to be good for Boston as a depth player, and he's fit in nicely. But I don't regret the trade of Coyle one bit.

[joebou15]

Remember, in no way do you have to, "hand it to Fenton."

We knew he could scout. Not surprised by some of his draft picks panning out. But literally everything else, he was pretty brutal. I'd say he set the franchise back in a big way, even if he carved out parts of the team that needed to be done.

The rumored trades returns of Zucker were something awful. He had major issues understanding player value. And while Zuccarello has found the fountain of youth with Kaprizov, he is slipping as seen last year, and that 5 year deal was a high risk deal of being bad towards the end.

This revisionist history on Fenton's tenure about how, "he was not as bad as people think," that's been happening in the MN media is ridiculous. It was pretty awful in real time and still isn't great.

 

Paul Fenton is to Wild GMs as Todd Richards is to Wild coaches.