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  • Extension Watch: What Should the Wild Do With Mats Zuccarello?


    Image courtesy of Sergei Belski-USA TODAY Sports
    Tony Abbott

    One rule I've lived my life by is that you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to" Paul Fenton, the Minnesota Wild's former general manager. His mercurial shenanigans are the stuff of legend now, and was the biggest reason for his abbreviated reign.

    But another reason had to be the fact that his moves were extremely unpopular and looked like disasters. With a team that missed the playoffs and had one foot in rebuild mode, and another in trying to contend well past the expiration date of the Mikko Koivu/Zach Parise/Ryan Suter/Eric Staal core, it's a tough sell.

    If you can say anything about Fenton (and again, you do not "gotta hand it to" him), he seemed to have a knack for making moves that looked like fiascos, only to narrowly avert becoming major disasters. After a rocky start for Kevin Fiala's Wild career, he blew up. Matt Boldy also started slow at Boston College, and that's turned out great. But maybe no greater example of this exists than Mats Zuccarello.

    Zuccarello, then 32-years-old, signed a five-year, $30 million deal with the Wild on July 1, 2019. It was too much money for too many years for a player who started the deal in his 30s. That sounds like a criticism, but most free-agent deals are, by definition, going to be this way. It's the Winner's Curse. Most GMs are going to sign deals like that, and they'll do so knowing, on some level, the end is probably going to be someone else's problem.

    In this case, that was true to the extreme. Fenton lasted 29 days -- not games. Days. -- into Zuccarello's Wild tenure. Right away, it was Bill Guerin's problem, and it looked like a problem from Day 30. Year 1 of the deal saw Zuccarello drop from scoring 40 points in 48 games during his contract year to only 37 in 65 games. Considering the way these contracts tend to get worse as they go along: Woof.

    But we know what happened next, this deal suddenly became fine, maybe even good. Zuccarello exploded for 181 points in 190 games over the next three years, improbably matching or exceeding his previous career-high in points per game during each campaign. Of course, superstar Kirill Kaprizov's presence is a factor, but Zuccarello clearly helped maximize his linemate's potential. 

    Imagining the Wild wanting to extend Zuccarello seemed like a far-fetched scenario. Credit to the soon-to-be-36-year-old, though, he's put the Wild in a spot where they've got to consider it.

    Like it or not, the Wild don't have many players in their history who can put up points like Zuccarello. His career scoring average with the team is currently 0.85 points per game. Forget for their Wild careers -- how many players in franchise history have done that for even a single season? Only ten

    Scoring has gone up league-wide over the past two years. But still, Zuccarello finished tied for 63rd in scoring with 78 points last year, tied with Sebastian Aho, Logan Couture, Sam Reinhart, and Brad Marchand. It's not like Minnesota has much offense to spare, either. They were in the bottom-10 in goals scored last year. Maybe it's wise to part with Zuccarello entering his age-37 season. If the Wild do, though, make no mistake, they have to replace his offensive contributions.

    Unless they want to pay the freight to keep him, but what would that cost? Evolving-Hockey's Contract Projections project an extension coming in at three years and a $7.1 million cap hit if it were signed today.

    You might feel some sticker shock. That Average Annual Value (AAV) is more than, say, rising star Matt Boldy. Adjusting for inflation in a world with a soon-to-be-rising cap, though, it's in line with recent deals with aging, high-scoring vets like Claude Giroux (signed 3-year, $6.5 AAV deal in 2022) and Evgeni Malkin (4-year, $6.1 AAV contract in 2022).

    There's no chance that Zuccarello could deliver that kind of value from ages 37-39, right?

    Right?

    It's a silly thing to bet your life savings on, for sure. But the thing is, Zuccarello's already an outlier. Since the salary cap era started, he's eighth among players in terms of points per game from ages 33 to 35 with 0.95 over the past three years. Using a 100-game minimum, only 17 players* have even scored 0.80 points per game at those ages.

    What did those players do at ages 37-39? For many, we have no idea, as folks like Sidney Crosby, Marchand, Giroux, etc. have yet to reach those ages. But for the outliers for which we have any data, we can take a look at how much their scoring held up in their golden years.

    image.png

    Let's get this out of the way: It's an imperfect sample size made up entirely of guys who aged way better than anyone would expect. But it's what we've got. The average rate of decline among these guys sits at around 26-30%, depending on whether you want to throw out the ageless Ovechkin, all the part-time samples, or leave everything in.

    What does that look like for Zuccarello, potentially? We'll have to account for age here. Production is going to generally be higher at age-37 than 38, and age-38 production should be higher than 39. There's a lot survivorship bias and even more sample size issues at play, but by year, these are the average declines from these outliers compared to their ages-33-through-35 production:

    Age-37: 19.2%
    Age-38: 28.4%
    Age-39: 39.8%

    We'll assume Zuccarello is a "survivor." It's far from a slam dunk, but if he isn't, the Wild should be able to make his cap hit disappear via LTIR. Here's our guess of these totals for Zuccarello over 70-game seasons, should he maintain a similar role for all that time:

    Age-37: 54 points
    Age-38: 48 points
    Age-39: 40 points

    That's shockingly solid for an oldster. But go back to that qualifier: "should he maintain a similar role." We're talking about a top-line, first-power play unit player that's stapled to a superstar, all while making around $7 million. A player in that role should probably do at least that, especially toward the tail end of that extension.

    It's not like the Wild can't backfill his role with high-end prospects, either. Zuccarello might be able to out-produce Minnesota's next wave of youngsters in 2024-25, but after that? If none of a 24-year-old Marco Rossi, a 23-year-old Marat Khusnutdinov, or 22-year-olds in Danila Yurov and Liam Öhgren can't ride the Kaprizov wave to 50 points, the Wild have bigger problems than even the best-case scenario of Zuccarello's twilight years can solve.

    You can talk yourself into giving Zuccarello an extension, especially with another productive year. He probably deserves it based on the merits of what he's accomplished in a Wild sweater. That's so much more than anything you could hope to say on Day 1 of his contract. But if Minnesota is going to bet big on something, betting that there's a diamond among their prospects feels like much less risk for a lot more reward than doubling down on Zuccarello. 

    *Kovalev's age-33 production came in 2006-07 and drops him below the 0.85 PPG cut-off.

    All data via Stathead and Evolving-Hockey.

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    I like the Norwegian Hobbit for his part with the Kaprizov duo. He's certainly looked good in that role during the regular season. Can it work in the playoffs? Perhaps but the Wild would need to be deeper and stronger overall because Zuccarello's size and style isn't going to overpower or power through playoff opponents. It would have to be part of a more balanced puzzle.

    Therefore, an extension for Zuccarello could be okay but if his production is very good it becomes a conundrum whether to spend again on an offensively talented little Euro guy. If it was around 3M, the Wild would be somewhat safe. More than that, or for longer than a year would begin to look kinda sketchy. Zuccarello is a nice player for sure, but like you say, he's a bit of an outlier and unique in that he brings something to the table but is it what the Wild have an appetite for when there's options or dietary constraints so to speak?

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    Zuccy has been a great part of the Wild team. His work with KK97 is fabulous. Unfortunately his USE BY Date has passed as it does with all players, great and good. Anything more than a smaller one year deal would be mistake and I would not do that. It is time to see what some of the kids could do or find a way to get a guy like Pettersson. 

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    I have to agree, there is no way BG pays him $7m or $6m.

    Anywhere over $4m for next year and I'm thinking ideally he takes the contract place of Foligno obviously depending on this year.

    I would go for $7 million for 2 years for a team friendly stay with his buddy. Knowing that if he retires/injuries in the last year, we would be protected.

    Zucci, Hartzy, Dewey 1 &  2 resign next year for a salary impact of $8m..and $9m to a player to be named (1c) that's all folks!

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    51 minutes ago, Up North Guy said:

    Zuccy has been a great part of the Wild team. His work with KK97 is fabulous. Unfortunately his USE BY Date has passed as it does with all players, great and good. Anything more than a smaller one year deal would be mistake and I would not do that. It is time to see what some of the kids could do or find a way to get a guy like Pettersson. 

    UNG, I like your idea with the young guys, but know Zucci would be an important piece in the locker room for those young guys on the ice and off.

    I believe his approach with KK over the past few years shows his team investment and that he is willing to be that veteran presence for the learning curve they will all face.

    Most Wild fans do not give Zucci enough cred for his voice in the locker room and have deferred to Reavo and Dumba. They are both gone and well a D-man is great getting everyone fired up, I would rather have a savvy old vet who's a lil crusty to implement the facts of life to the youngens.

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    $6/$7 AAV... Wow.  There were a lot of people on this board excited about the cap room this money gave us in the "is-next-summer-the-time-for-the-wild-to-strike" article.  You pay that kind of money out to a player there is an expectation and usually a proven track record that he can repeat those numbers.  The question becomes, can we get a better player to replace his numbers or does the money get distributed out among multiple players to create a more balanced roster.  At Zuc's age I would tend to move on.  He has been a fantastic player but it is unlikely he can help us get a cup.  I certainly do not want to lose any of our rising young players to limited cap space.  That would hurt us for years to come.

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    Sometimes I just have to wonder what Evolving Hockey is smoking or drinking or both? Their model seems to be way out of whack to reality. What to do with Zuccarello-

    1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
    2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
    3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
    4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

    I'd really rather convert the $5m in savings ($6m-$1m elc) to a center like Pettersson. I do not value the friendship angle very highly as I believe Kaprizov's drive to win > any friendships. Let's go get that dynamic center we need, and I'll say it again, whenever that opportunity presents itself, we need to jump and consider the consequences later. Our prospect pool is loaded with stuff Vancouver needs, and Pettersson would like it here.

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    3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Sometimes I just have to wonder what Evolving Hockey is smoking or drinking or both? Their model seems to be way out of whack to reality. What to do with Zuccarello-

    1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
    2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
    3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
    4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

    I'd really rather convert the $5m in savings ($6m-$1m elc) to a center like Pettersson. I do not value the friendship angle very highly as I believe Kaprizov's drive to win > any friendships. Let's go get that dynamic center we need, and I'll say it again, whenever that opportunity presents itself, we need to jump and consider the consequences later. Our prospect pool is loaded with stuff Vancouver needs, and Pettersson would like it here.

    So for a talking point sake, who would you part with to Vancouver?

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    I’d say thank you for your service Zucc and offer him a role off the ice with the team. Zucc might still want to play but I think we should move on. I think he has a lil gas in the tank left but not anything we can’t cover with prospects. If they do resign him which I hope we don’t do, it can’t be more than a one year deal and has to be 1-3 million max and even then I won’t like it but I’ll hold my tongue and deal with it. We really need to strategize how we want to project for the end of the dead cap while seeing what our prospects have to offer. Please don’t deviate from the plan. I do really like Zucc as a person and hope for him the best but not at the team’s expense.

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    45 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    What to do with Zuccarello-

    1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
    2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
    3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
    4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

    You must mean his market value is in the $4M territory, right?

    Maybe the Wild try to replace him with youth at a $1M contract, but Zuccarello cannot be at that contract value. You later said relatively similar to Dumba, who signed very close to $4M, so that's why I'm guessing you typed it wrong in the 2nd line.

    I believe Guerin will need to look long-term for that replacement as well. I have enjoyed watching Zuccarello play, but it's hard to count on him being at the same level for the next handful of years after this where the Wild will presumably be pursuing a cup.

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    1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Sometimes I just have to wonder what Evolving Hockey is smoking or drinking or both? Their model seems to be way out of whack to reality. What to do with Zuccarello-

    1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
    2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
    3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
    4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

    I'd really rather convert the $5m in savings ($6m-$1m elc) to a center like Pettersson. I do not value the friendship angle very highly as I believe Kaprizov's drive to win > any friendships. Let's go get that dynamic center we need, and I'll say it again, whenever that opportunity presents itself, we need to jump and consider the consequences later. Our prospect pool is loaded with stuff Vancouver needs, and Pettersson would like it here.

    Agreed, and agreed. I'd hope by now Kaprizov knows this is a business, and that that business will serve him well as a superstar player. Guerin will work to reward him with another superstar, we should count on it.

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    We don't know Knudi or Rossi are NHL centers for sure. One of those guys as a wing might be another reason Zuccarello is potentially too expensive AND too old for comfort. Never know. These will be guys to watch in their contract or Swan-song year. What will it mean for the Wild? By deadline time there will be a playoff picture, injuries can factor in, and players will be viewed from a "what have you done for me lately?" scope. When it comes to extentions, I would think a solid year might bring that new deal along before the end of the year. For guys who stink, the Wild will probably let them wait til after a playoff run as a final chance then perhaps let em walk. For me Hartman and Zuccarello have added the most offense but it's hard to argue Foligno or Fleury aren't important. I've always said, better one year too early than one year too late. I think the Wild have a redundancy plan in goal. Who's easiest to replace between Foligno, Hartman, and Zuccarello? The chances all three guys have great seasons and we can't imagine losing any one or two of them is slim. That's why I look at Hartman as potentially the one most worth keeping. Age, offense, toughness, most complete of the three.

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    4 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

    Zuccy has been a great part of the Wild team. His work with KK97 is fabulous. Unfortunately his USE BY Date has passed as it does with all players, great and good. Anything more than a smaller one year deal would be mistake and I would not do that. It is time to see what some of the kids could do or find a way to get a guy like Pettersson. 

    Agreed. I could get on board with a cheap 1yr deal just to get through the last cap strapped year and get the young guns another year of development but I’m with you, anything more than that would be a mistake. 
     

    He’ll be 36 next month so age is definitely a factor. Love the guy but you gotta do what’s best for the team even if it means splitting up PB&J. 

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    3 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

    UNG, I like your idea with the young guys, but know Zucci would be an important piece in the locker room for those young guys on the ice and off.

    I believe his approach with KK over the past few years shows his team investment and that he is willing to be that veteran presence for the learning curve they will all face.

    Most Wild fans do not give Zucci enough cred for his voice in the locker room and have deferred to Reavo and Dumba. They are both gone and well a D-man is great getting everyone fired up, I would rather have a savvy old vet who's a lil crusty to implement the facts of life to the youngens.

    I agree that he has value for everything you're saying. 

     

    But is that worth 3 more years? It's not like these guys won't have a role model on the team. Not to mention, if the staff indeed sees the team lacking a veteran presence, those guys can be bought for cheap on the free agent market. 

     

    Tough decisions need to be made here. He's been better than I would have ever guessed when he first signed. But why use a 37 year old guy at term and expensive dollars blocking a roster spot for a cheaper, younger alternative?

    The leadership and comeraderie is only worth so much, especially if hes falli g off in other areas. And I'm just not willing to pay for it this time.

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    1 hour ago, joebou15 said:

    I agree that he has value for everything you're saying. 

     

    But is that worth 3 more years? It's not like these guys won't have a role model on the team. Not to mention, if the staff indeed sees the team lacking a veteran presence, those guys can be bought for cheap on the free agent market. 

     

    Tough decisions need to be made here. He's been better than I would have ever guessed when he first signed. But why use a 37 year old guy at term and expensive dollars blocking a roster spot for a cheaper, younger alternative?

    The leadership and comeraderie is only worth so much, especially if hes falli g off in other areas. And I'm just not willing to pay for it this time.

    Good points, we can't change this year so $6m it is. I personally like mnfaniac take of $1m, but don't think it'll get him signed.

    I don't believe we're gonna have that many reliable wingers a year from now that would help us in a playoff run. I know we have the prospects,  and I DO NOT want to block anyone's opportunity.

     Why mess with the locker room and bring in someone else at KK expense if your gonna pay someone else $2m. Leadership is valued or you have a locker room like Anaheim with everyone playing their own tune and haven't a clue about team. 

    Edited by vonlonster67
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    1 hour ago, M_Nels said:

    Agreed. I could get on board with a cheap 1yr deal just to get through the last cap strapped year and get the young guns another year of development but I’m with you, anything more than that would be a mistake. 
     

    He’ll be 36 next month so age is definitely a factor. Love the guy but you gotta do what’s best for the team even if it means splitting up PB&J. 

    He's 36, not 38/39. Did you watch the playoffs last year against Dallas.  Pavelski is returning to their lineup at 39. Suter (ugh)at 38, Benn at 34????

    I want him back,  I think this team needs him back, it's just the small detail of the number it takes. I know I first said 3.5 over two thinking about the proposal of $7/yr, ridiculous.  I'm hoping for $2.5/$2.75 and feel it's fair to all.

    It comes down to BG and I believe he pays him after what I saw him do with Goose's contract both times and how much he plays.

    Maybe that's the approach, less games played while we slot in another forward. 

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    4 hours ago, M_Nels said:

    Agreed. I could get on board with a cheap 1yr deal just to get through the last cap strapped year and get the young guns another year of development but I’m with you, anything more than that would be a mistake. 
     

    He’ll be 36 next month so age is definitely a factor. Love the guy but you gotta do what’s best for the team even if it means splitting up PB&J. 

    Sorry, M Nels, my topic got typed quoted to you should have been a general reply :classic_wacko: below

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    2 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

    He's 36, not 38/39. Did you watch the playoffs last year against Dallas.  Pavelski is returning to their lineup at 39. Suter (ugh)at 38, Benn at 34????

    All good on the double quote. 
     

    One big thing in those guys favor is their size. Pav’s is the smallest at 6’ 195lbs where Zucc is 5’8” and 180lbs on a good day. Not saying Zucc isn’t in as good of shape as those guys but it is a factor. 
     

    Seemed like late in the season he was a tad off in his decision making. Telegraphing passes, trying to force pucks into bad areas and those blind passes to no one were frustrating to watch. Hope for his sake and the teams sake he comes out this season firing on all cylinders. The guy is absolutely impossible not to like but if his cap and roster spot can be filled with cheaper, younger players but the production stays the same then it’s hard to justify the big money. 

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    Trade him at the deadline, take a salary dump player back retaining half his salary and a, idk second round pick (not sure the value he could get)? He’s has to be the player that can bring the highest return at the deadline that isn’t off limits. 
     

    all this “oh no kaprizov won’t know how to skate without the hobbit” business is crap. He’s been awesome and a big reason why kaprizov ascended to super star so fast. But kaprizov is a super star, and he needs long term line mates which as of today aren’t here. find out what you have post deadline in Iowa and gear up for next year. Signing him to term unless he takes a major pay cut is not helpful, because in my eyes it continues this notion that he has to keep playing with kaprizov. 
     

    As you can tell, I don’t see this season through Rosie colored glass. I think this is a dump at the deadline what you can move, or aren’t resigning kind of year. Back fill with youth for 30 games to see what stick for the long term. Replace zuccy in house or next summer 

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    19 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

    So for a talking point sake, who would you part with to Vancouver?

    I wrote on another thread where I'd start. Here's what I wrote: 

    Quote

    We were backed into a corner with Fiala and ended up getting a decent return. I would say that Vancouver may also be backed into a corner with Pettersson, and I'd expect the return to be similar but higher for Pettersson due to his position. If we wait a year, we could offer Rossi, our 1st, and maybe a couple of D prospects like Peart and Johansson? Perhaps even Addison fits into that deal? 

    Now, I'm not sure what Vancouver would be looking for, but when a player wants out, or has to go, the owning team is usually at a disadvantage. What helps us in this scenario is that we need to shed cap for the current year, but will have cap room for an extension. A lot of others do not have that. So, I'd look for something in the area of the Fiala deal, but a little higher.

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    15 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I wrote on another thread where I'd start. Here's what I wrote: 

    Now, I'm not sure what Vancouver would be looking for, but when a player wants out, or has to go, the owning team is usually at a disadvantage. What helps us in this scenario is that we need to shed cap for the current year, but will have cap room for an extension. A lot of others do not have that. So, I'd look for something in the area of the Fiala deal, but a little higher.

    I'm thinking a lot more as there will be other teams who would line up to outbid the Wild.

    I'm guessing they would have no interest in Peart or Johansson or Addy. Rossi is probably the throw in based off what he's shown. Our #1 is gonna be in latter half of draft in '24 .It would take #1 in '25 and Lambos to get this done,

    I'd have to think that one through.....not sure at this point with Yurov and Khusnutdinov coming at the same time next year. I'd take a step back from this.

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    19 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    You must mean his market value is in the $4M territory, right?

    Maybe the Wild try to replace him with youth at a $1M contract, but Zuccarello cannot be at that contract value. You later said relatively similar to Dumba, who signed very close to $4M, so that's why I'm guessing you typed it wrong in the 2nd line.

    No, I really meant $1m. What I meant from the Dumba line wasn't what Dumba got but the interest he had and how long it took him to sign. I realize some of this was Dumba's doing since he wanted the Erik Karlsson trade to go 1st and see what happened. 

    When players get to this age, I highly discount the $ value due to the injury risk. Look at what guys like Bergeron and Krecji played for. They were top 6 centers playing well below their talent value. If Zuccarello wants to come back, it would be to win, and if to win, sometimes you just have to be in it for that reason only, not the money. We all saw what Shooter did when he thought there was a guy who just wanted to play out the string. 

    Zuccarello has made his money. Now it's just about if he has something left in the tank that was unaccomplished. 

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    52 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

    I'm guessing they would have no interest in Peart or Johansson or Addy. Rossi is probably the throw in based off what he's shown. Our #1 is gonna be in latter half of draft in '24 .It would take #1 in '25 and Lambos to get this done,

    I'm not sure that it would. Rossi would be the "prospect," Peart, Johansson would be the sweeteners, and a #1 pick. Lambos would have been much like Brandt was for the Kings, the untouchable defender. And, we know that Vancouver needs defensemen. I could see Masters also, but if I'm Guerin, I'm saying no to Lambos and Spacek. 

    In context, this was for '23-24, not '24-25. It was in response to Pettersson not wanting to sign longterm with Vancouver (much like I suspect Fiala didn't want to do with the Wild). In this case, Pettersson kind of gets to pick his destination. I think he would choose the Wild as one of those teams. The team acquiring would want a contract extension in place, much like was done with Fiala. The main thing that is different is that Pettersson is a center not a wing, so his value is higher. 

    I'm also not dumping off spare parts for volume. Peart, probably more than Johansson, are decent prospects. I'd say Johansson is probably farther along. Rossi is an excellent C prospect that could jump right in. 

    Edited by mnfaninnc
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    15 hours ago, M_Nels said:

    Seemed like late in the season he was a tad off in his decision making. Telegraphing passes, trying to force pucks into bad areas and those blind passes to no one were frustrating to watch. Hope for his sake and the teams sake he comes out this season firing on all cylinders. The guy is absolutely impossible not to like but if his cap and roster spot can be filled with cheaper, younger players but the production stays the same then it’s hard to justify the big money. 

    I think we had the reason for this, the core injury. But injury is a way that production bleeds. He played through the injury, though, he wasn't nearly as effective. I thought in late January, he looked like he blew a groin. He was having trouble with his normally crisp turns. Those things tend to linger, especially at that age.

     

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    14 hours ago, Skolwild said:

    As you can tell, I don’t see this season through Rosie colored glass. I think this is a dump at the deadline what you can move, or aren’t resigning kind of year. Back fill with youth for 30 games to see what stick for the long term. Replace zuccy in house or next summer 

    We haven't had Rosie colored glasses for the last 3 years, yet this group has overachieved. So, what do you do if we're in the hunt? What do you do if we've got a pretty good handle on 3rd place in the division which is likely? Selling for youth isn't going to make the owner happy. 

    I like prospects and getting more bullets, but at some point you've got to develop and realize that the future is now. I think we're fast approaching that time and the guys we've drafted the last 3-4 years are the guys we're running with. Extra 2nds aren't really going to move the needle.

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    5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    We haven't had Rosie colored glasses for the last 3 years, yet this group has overachieved. So, what do you do if we're in the hunt? What do you do if we've got a pretty good handle on 3rd place in the division which is likely? Selling for youth isn't going to make the owner happy. 

    I like prospects and getting more bullets, but at some point you've got to develop and realize that the future is now. I think we're fast approaching that time and the guys we've drafted the last 3-4 years are the guys we're running with. Extra 2nds aren't really going to move the needle.

    If they are contending then you do nothing. Let him ride the year out and walk in FA. 
     

    the future isn’t now. The future is in 2025. And really the first true contention year is not the year the following cap relief. Sure they will have ample freed up money, and sign some big names. However, most of the roster will be filled with players of < 3 years of experience most of which are < 2 y. So really when you can expect a true contending team is probably the 26-27 season. How is hobbit in that conversation? He’s a stop gap for the Russians/Rossi/FA signing at best.

    if another first round exit is important to OCL, which history says it is, then Let them get bounced again likely as a wild card (my projected ceiling for the season). 
     

    if not then get something for an aging veteran who has trade able talent who is not in the future. 

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