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  • The Wild Can't Underestimate the Value Of Centers


    Image courtesy of Nick Wosika - Imagn Images
    Tony Abbott

    The Minnesota Wild are coming up on another offseason, and you know what that means:

    It's time for Marco Rossi trade rumor corner.

    The Wild's young center has been in the rumor mill for each of the past two offseasons, and it appears his 22 goals and 54 points in 70 games (so far) may not save him for a third round of rumors.

    After a trade deadline reprieve, the speculation machine started firing up again on Thursday's "Worst Seats in the House" Podcast with Michael Russo.

    Quoting Russo:

    Somebody asked [The Athletic colleague] Joe Smith on his podcast that he believes it's 70% [likely] that Marco Rossi is traded this summer. A person asked if I agreed with that, and I would actually say it's higher. I genuinely think that, reading the tea leaves, I think that they're gonna move him this summer...

    They are so far apart on what Rossi's camp his value is versus the Wild, it's not even funny. They're in different universes right now.

    Here we go again.

    There's the possibility that Rossi is on the Matt Dumba track, always available for a perfect return that will never arrive, presenting no one reason to worry Rossi could be on the move. However, Rossi is a restricted free agent this offseason, which means he's in line for a big raise that the Wild simply don't want to pay, perhaps even via offer sheet. It's a situation that at least has the potential to force the Wild's hand.

    Whether any trade is a good idea depends on the return, and we don't know what that might constitute. However, if Minnesota is looking for a center-for-center trade, it will be tough to upgrade from Rossi. As of Sunday, his Standings Points Above Replacement has been 4.1, which leads the Wild and puts him in the top-15 league-wide among regular centers. 

    Let's just say that Jack Eichel, Leon Draisaitl, or Wyatt Johnston ain't walking through that door. That means the Wild can either try buying low on a formerly elite center like Elias Pettersson or make a lateral move, at best, in a center swap. The former may be a long shot, and the latter doesn't make much sense. 

    That's fairly concerning because if a center-for-center swap isn't possible, then trading Rossi will put them, by definition, down a center. If that happens, the Wild will have become alarmingly cavalier about giving away talent down the middle.

    This happened, to a lesser extent, at the trade deadline when Minnesota shipped out Marat Khusnutdinov in a trade for winger Justin Brazeau.

    Khusnutdinov had few NHL accomplishments. Still, flipping a 22-year-old, speedy center for a slow, 28-year-old fourth-line winger was an odd choice, to say the least. Especially given how Rossi's recent injury scare showed how close the Wild's center depth is to running on fumes. Maybe Khusnutdinov wouldn't have helped with that, but he at least offers more upside than the Wild's current options.

    You don't have to look far to see how other teams value -- and honestly, hoard -- centers. The Colorado Avalanche traded premium draft capital to land Brock Nelson and Charlie Coyle at the trade deadline. The Dallas Stars go six-deep with Johnston, Matt Duchene, Roope Hintz, Jamie Benn, Maverik Bourque, and Sam Steel. Heck, they're throwing Mikael Granlund at the pivot before resorting to a Brendan Gaunce-type.

    Honestly, even with a healthy Rossi and Eriksson Ek, the Wild's center room will have difficulty keeping up with the sheer depth of the Western Conference's top teams. So what happens if they remove Rossi from the equation?

    Outside of a center-for-center deal, John Tavares is the only high-end free-agent center. Tavares is having a productive season (29 goals, 60 points in 62 games), but he'll also turn 35 before next season starts. It's also worth wondering whether a player who's played in New York and Toronto will see Minnesota as a desirable landing spot when the franchise has historically struggled to attract free agents without local ties. 

    If the Wild strike out on an established center, then the franchise's eggs all go into the Danila Yurov basket. Yurov is a top prospect, but the Wild just saw a 21-year-old prospect in Khusnutdinov struggle to transition to the NHL after putting up solid numbers in the KHL. Yurov has advantages Khusnutdinov doesn't: he's bigger and has a better shot than Khusnutdinov. Regardless, pinning their hopes on a young player immediately adjusting to a bigger, faster league halfway across the world seems dubious.

    There's also a difference between shifting from wing to center in the KHL and doing so in the NHL. There's reason to think that Yurov can make the transition -- he has the size, skating, and skill to stick at the position. Still, even lifelong centers are sometimes better suited for the wing. Without Rossi, Minnesota could easily be left without a Plan B if Yurov can't stick down the middle. 

    And even if Yurov is an NHL-caliber center and does make a seamless transition to the position... since when is it bad to go three-deep at center? It's almost becoming a requirement to win now. The Cup Champion Florida Panthers are another team with more centers than spots for centers. The runner-up Edmonton Oilers have two of the best five centers of the league, and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is behind them on the depth chart. Dallas made the Conference Finals last season, and we've already talked about their situation.

    Up to this point, Russo and Smith's belief that the Wild will trade Rossi has come up bust, but it's never wise to dismiss someone as plugged-in as Russo. It feels like there's got to be fire to accompany this much smoke. Still, unless the Wild can pull off something huge, Wild fans should hope this round of Rossi rumors don't pan out. Centers are gold in the NHL, and the Wild have two high-end, Under-30 centers on their roster, with the chance to get a third in Yurov. Trading Rossi (likely) wouldn't just be a misunderstanding of the NHL's economy; it'd be a failure to properly read the Wild's map to a Stanley Cup.

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    12 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Was he worth a mid-late 1st round and some filler? We'll see but he has a ton of upside and adds coveted size to the back end. He's up with the big club to spend time with Andy Ness and get practices with the big club. 

    we can discard Jiri - but it does show the lack of forecast and planning for Bill. if we are patient with our assets (and Jiri cost a lot) and willing to be players for big game (Ranty, Miller) then we may not be talking about Nyquist and Braz and wondering when is Jiri's time. Braz got us size - is that going to be helpful for us in the PO? not likely - his time will be very slim and he won't deter any thing from our top 6 since he is not on the ice for that. It will be like Reaves on the bench barking but not actually doing anything. Actually not even Sure Braz is a feisty one or just big. And to use him as a screener - you have to play him and do we really want to play him in crucial situation?? And yes, Andy Ness is this dude that teaches kids to skate....but there is a skating coach with every club - are we really going to pretend that we have the best one out there? 

    As far as Lauko and Marat for Nyquist and Braz, it's a lateral move with 1 foot forward. Lauko was never in long-term plans, Khus evidently wasn't either because of salary and lack of production. but did we have to pay that much for so little? and yes this was an overpay. braz was nowhere near the most coveted commodity and we gave boston way too much. 

    The 4th & 6th are basically nothing picks so I'm not crying myself to sleep over those. but when you add it all together - we could likely combined these assets and look for a much better suited piece. these types of random moves show that there is no plan, there is no vision,  there is a constant delay - what did Bill say "not our time yet"......right, we'll wait patiently until another 5-10 years and reset

    I have tried to make sense of the Lauko, Khus, 6th pick trade looking at it from a gm perspective.  Looking to our lineup next year, with Kap, Ek, Boldy, Zucc, Foligno, Freddy, Trenin, Hartman, and Vinnie signed, that is nine forwards.  Add in Yurov and Ohgren we would be at 11.  Whether number 12 is Rossi or a FA, there wasn’t room for Lauko or Khus to make the team, even if we resigned Rossi and traded one of the above players to make room for a FA or in a trade.  So I feel like we tried to get something.  Not sure if Braz is that player or not.  Maybe they wanted to see if he could fill the Trenin role and move on from him to save some money next year?  I doubt Braz is going to command a huge raise.

    Time will tell I suppose.  

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    7 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Excellent way to refute that he has no defensive game. You have little basis to back up your opinion, so why should anyone care, right?

    I don't know if Heidt will be a solid PK player at the NHL level. I do know that Khusnutdinov was one of their worst PK performers based upon actual results and that the Wild are getting better overall results after making these trades.

    The Wild also have Kumpulainen and Stramel in the pipeline as 2nd round pick types of centers. They do have other 3rd and 4th line option prospects at C.

    your claim that he is an all-around player is that he played PK for his junior team? have the questions about his speed, physicality and lack of defensive game been answered? how? just by him playing some minutes in PK? I think those were legit questions that he has to answer in the professional league, not in CHL. has he played one game in AHL or Wild? no = so all that is noise until he actually suits up and shows that he has a future in the NHL and not just another Beckman

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    5 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    I have tried to make sense of the Lauko, Khus, 6th pick trade looking at it from a gm perspective.  Looking to our lineup next year, with Kap, Ek, Boldy, Zucc, Foligno, Freddy, Trenin, Hartman, and Vinnie signed, that is nine forwards.  Add in Yurov and Ohgren we would be at 11.  Whether number 12 is Rossi or a FA, there wasn’t room for Lauko or Khus to make the team, even if we resigned Rossi and traded one of the above players to make room for a FA or in a trade.  So I feel like we tried to get something.  Not sure if Braz is that player or not.  Maybe they wanted to see if he could fill the Trenin role and move on from him to save some money next year?  I doubt Braz is going to command a huge raise.

    Time will tell I suppose.  

    so why not just put Marat in the AHL (not like you are bursting with talent there now) give him a chance to lead the team along with Ohgr and then if you really are that in love with Braz, then go ahead and give him Lauko and 6th. Billy is starting to waste picks just like many of the previous GMs towards the end of their tenure.....which is not good for the team success. 

     

     

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    5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    so why not just put Marat in the AHL (not like you are bursting with talent there now) give him a chance to lead the team along with Ohgr and then if you really are that in love with Braz, then go ahead and give him Lauko and 6th. Billy is starting to waste picks just like many of the previous GMs towards the end of their tenure.....which is not good for the team success. 

     

     

    Yea, I don’t know.  Possible that they had talked a contract with Khus and didn’t want to pay him what he wanted to play in the A, or were worried about an offer sheet and lose him for nothing?  I am only speculating, but trying to figure out what may have went into the decision.

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    1 minute ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Yea, I don’t know.  Possible that they had talked a contract with Khus and didn’t want to pay him what he wanted to play in the A, or were worried about an offer sheet and lose him for nothing?  I am only speculating, but trying to figure out what may have went into the decision.

    i guess, but then why do we have to talk to a player and/or agent at every opportunity - it's business - get your ass to AHL and work on this and that and be ready next year. it's silly to give up on someone that you were just recently speaking glowingly about. it's not the end of the world - but it may lead to Kap thinking = what da F is Bill doing here? seems like a panic move with no logic. 

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    1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

    i guess, but then why do we have to talk to a player and/or agent at every opportunity - it's business - get your ass to AHL and work on this and that and be ready next year. it's silly to give up on someone that you were just recently speaking glowingly about. it's not the end of the world - but it may lead to Kap thinking = what da F is Bill doing here? seems like a panic move with no logic. 

    I hear ya.  But looking at what Braz has done in his career, 84 games, 16G, 12A, if he signs next year and Trenin is gone and he puts up those types of numbers for a year, then it might be a decent trade.  If he is a rental, then even I who like to see the positive in anything, would be scratching my head a little, wondering if we could have gotten something more.  A lot of ifs, but time will tell.

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    2 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    I hear ya.  But looking at what Braz has done in his career, 84 games, 16G, 12A, if he signs next year and Trenin is gone and he puts up those types of numbers for a year, then it might be a decent trade.  If he is a rental, then even I who like to see the positive in anything, would be scratching my head a little, wondering if we could have gotten something more.  A lot of ifs, but time will tell.

    where is trenin going? 🤔 i think he is signed Longterm....

    i just hope we don't end up with trenin and braz and nyquist and a resigned MJ! 

     

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    2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    where is trenin going? 🤔 i think he is signed Longterm....

    i just hope we don't end up with trenin and braz and nyquist and a resigned MJ! 

     

    I am not sure he is, but my thinking was that Braz was on a trial run to see if he could replace him at a lesser contract.  Only speculation on my part.  I can’t see room for both next year.

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    2 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Simply an offset to all of the people whining about Khusnutdinov scoring a couple of goals for the Bruins--he still only has 5 shots on goal in 8 games. Dino had 550 minutes of even strength play with the Wild and posted only 2 goals. He had a lot of opportunities to do more.

    The Wild gave up goals at a higher rate when Dino was on the ice than with the new players. It's quite possible the trade that so many were upset about is actually working out fine for the Wild in the short term.

    Dino wasn't even going to be with the Wild after the Nyquist trade due to his salary cap hit. The trade doesn't really seem so bad when you look at how the Wild might have been looking to replace him next season with more talent on the way.

    I tuned into the Bruins v Kings last night to spot shadow on Khuz.  He played on the first line with Middlestadt and Pasta.  He looks good on the wing.  Wild should have moved him around our lineup to see what he was capable of, not simply make him a shut down 4th line C.  He looked fast AND capable last night.  Which makes me still wonder why the urgency to unload a 22 year old 2nd rounder for a 27 year old lumber wagon.  He came and went on that line.  Not sure coach was unhappy or if it was a match up thing.

    This may play out as a net neutral trade, but that will be the best case scenario for bill.  Maybe bill understood he was sending away more potential/talent than he was getting back and the move was for a player who can be more effective in post season this year and next, but I think it's another example of bill outsmarting himself.

    I will check in on Bruin games and Khuz's development.  Laukzy was Laukzy.  4th liner with jump and reach, which I guess we figured we had in spades (Gaunce? Shore?)

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    1 minute ago, SkolWild73 said:

    I am not sure he is, but my thinking was that Braz was on a trial run to see if he could replace him at a lesser contract.  Only speculation on my part.  I can’t see room for both next year.

    good news - trenin is signed for next 3 years at 3.5 hit

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    Just now, Pewterschmidt said:

    I tuned into the Bruins v Kings last night to spot shadow on Khuz.  He played on the first line with Middlestadt and Pasta.  He looks good on the wing.  Wild should have moved him around our lineup to see what he was capable of, not simply make him a shut down 4th line C.  He looked fast AND capable last night.  Which makes me still wonder why the urgency to unload a 22 year old 2nd rounder for a 27 year old lumber wagon.  He came and went on that line.  Not sure coach was unhappy or if it was a match up thing.

    This may play out as a net neutral trade, but that will be the best case scenario for bill.  Maybe bill understood he was sending away more potential/talent than he was getting back and the move was for a player who can be more effective in post season this year and next, but I think it's another example of bill outsmarting himself.

    I will check in on Bruin games and Khuz's development.  Laukzy was Laukzy.  4th liner with jump and reach, which I guess we figured we had in spades (Gaunce? Shore?)

    ARGH! 

    but i bet he misses his time with Jones and Shore!

    thanks for the scoop Pewty!

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    12 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    I am not sure he is, but my thinking was that Braz was on a trial run to see if he could replace him at a lesser contract.  Only speculation on my part.  I can’t see room for both next year.

    I think Brazo's deficiencies are making Trenin look pretty good.  3.5M good?  No.

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    1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Khusnutdinov is a good skater. His NHL skills seemed to be below average outside of skating right now. Perhaps the Wild could have gotten something more in return, but I think they'll be okay given the prospect pool they have to add more talent in the not too distant future.

    I do not disagree with your assessment of Khuz right now.  I do get bothered when the faithful continue to say the "our lead pipe lock prospect pool is so deep we can (effectively) piss away assets, and not get comparable assets in return".  this is something bill does, combined with overpaying (ie: Trenin, NMC's). 

    That GM'ing strategy is like saying we lose money on every widget we sell but we make it up in volume.  That is not a sustainable strategy bill!

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    The Wild Can't Underestimate the Value Of Centers

     

    The organization may not have underestimated the value of centers, BUT they sure haven't had any number 1 centers.

    None. Zip. Nada.

    Just a long list of 3rd, a few 2nd and occasionally 4th line centers that have to play on the 1st line because they are the best we got. 🤮

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    1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Not sure if Braz is that player or not.  Maybe they wanted to see if he could fill the Trenin role and move on from him to save some money next year?  I doubt Braz is going to command a huge raise.

    This is a plausible justification that makes the most sense, if it plays out like this.

    Again, if this is the justification it sure feels like bill is trying to play chess, when checkers is the game right now.

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    1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Billy is starting to waste picks just like many of the previous GMs towards the end of their tenure.....which is not good for the team success. 

    I'm picking up on this too.  bill's moves are starting to feel a little desperate

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    17 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Here we go indeed....

    Just pay the guy.

    I have a feeling GMBG will have to. Otherwise, Rossi will be traded for pennies on the dollar. Other GMs know what's up with what's going down.

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    6 hours ago, Patrick said:

    Russo is a drama queen. I don't put too much credibility on any of his "reporting".

    He is. I'm also sure he's being fed this information. I agree with you, Patrick, that this may be a bluff... a bluff via reporters to get Rossi's side to lower their numbers.

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    1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Marat in the AHL

    He didn’t want to play in the AHL, that was one reason he got moved. He’s a fun fringe fourth liner. He needs to develop some more skills because he lacks size/ weight. It will be fun watching him, could he maybe have a Sam Steel kind of career? It will be interesting to see how Boston handles him as he’ll still be an RFA. Thanks for your posts BTW. Like you said getting KK extended is priority uno. 

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    3 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Dino wasn't even going to be with the Wild after the Nyquist trade due to his salary cap hit. The trade doesn't really seem so bad when you look at how the Wild might have been looking to replace him next season with more talent on the way.

    It's still way too early to tell.

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    1 minute ago, Burnt Toast said:

    He didn’t want to play in the AHL, that was one reason he got moved. He’s a fun fringe fourth liner. He needs to develop some more skills because he lacks size/ weight. It will be fun watching him, could he maybe have a Sam Steel kind of career? It will be interesting to see how Boston handles him as he’ll still be an RFA. Thanks for your posts BTW. Like you said getting KK extended is priority uno. 

    cheers mate 🍻 

    He didn’t want to play in the AHL, that was one reason he got moved. that's the thing - we need to get these players to understand that this is the reality. there is a process to this. so if he wanted NHL or nothing, then i get the move. but that is an unknown, unless he flat out said so in the media. none of these players want to be demoted, but it's business and a necessary move for variety of reasons. i also disagree a bit on fringe fourth liner and steel comparison (i know i am in the minority) but he has very good skills hidden and just need to unlock them - they were there in KHL - i did look at a ton of his highlights and really liked him as a prospect. We should have taken a bit more time to see who he can be. But oh well. Too late. 

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    19 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

    they sure haven't had any number 1 centers.

    I’d love to see them add one after extending KK. Rossi has been improving every year, maybe he can fill that role. Any examples of players his size fitting the bill?

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    2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Riley Heidt is an all offense prospect - Beckman style of player - whose game is not the same responsive game that Marat had in his underused tool bag. So Heidt is out.

    I was looking in the direction of Bankier and Milne. While Milne is a winger, Bankier adds a better scoring touch and size and is progressing nicely. Really, all MaRat added was excessive speed that he was always downshifting from. 

    But, before dumping him, why not see if he has any chemistry with someone like Boldy?

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