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  • The Wild Are Starting To Look Like the Team Bill Guerin Blew Up


    Image courtesy of Jerome Miron-USA Today Sports
    Tony Abbott

     

    When Bill Guerin took over the Minnesota Wild in 2019, he inherited a club that was long on experience and short on success. Led by long-time veterans like Mikko Koivu, Zach Parise, Ryan Suter, Eric Staal, and Devan Dubnyk, the Wild’s roster had an average age of 29.4 years old. That was tied for second in the NHL. The group hadn’t won a playoff series in five seasons. Critics around the State of Hockey called it a “country club” atmosphere.

    It did not take long for Guerin to figure out how to handle the situation. He blew that roster up. Within a year, Staal, Koivu, and Dubnyk were out, with Guerin hustling to navigate the former’s no-trade clause in dumping him. Sentiment be damned. In less than two years, out goes Parise and Suter in bold moves with ramifications that will still be felt over the next two seasons.

    Was it audacious? Yes. It’s hard to imagine Chuck Fletcher kicking so many guys to the curb. A world where Fletcher would let Koivu play games for the Columbus Blue Jackets instead of retiring as a Wild is unfathomable.

    But was it all necessary? Yes. An aging club with a rapidly closing window and a limited ceiling to begin with is no recipe for winning in the NHL. And as Guerin memorably said, “It’s about winning.”

    It’s that kind of brash bravado that got fans on board with a new vision for the Wild. The Wild are done playing it safe? They’re sick of the first-round losses and want to build a contender? A youth movement is on the way? Sign us up.

    Two weeks before the start of Year 5 of the Bill Guerin Experience and nine months before the Wild could finally start having some cap room with $24 million in cap space, that bold new vision became much murkier. So murky, in fact, that this team is looking a lot like the one he blew up. And if it is, it’s staying that way for a while.

    The Wild are old. Sure, they have young faces in prominent places. Kirill Kaprizov and Joel Eriksson Ek are both 26. Matt Boldy is 22, with Calen Addison (23), Marco Rossi (22), and Brock Faber (21) hoping to take big roles. But there’s no denying the Wild’s age. 

    Here are the top-ten oldest rosters entering the season:

    1) Pittsburgh Penguins: 30.7
    2) Washington Capitals: 29.5
    3) Minnesota Wild 28.9
    4) Dallas Stars: 28.8
    T-5) Toronto Maple Leafs: 28.6
    T-5) Seattle Kraken: 28.6
    T-5) New York Islanders: 28.6
    T-8) Colorado Avalanche: 28.5
    T-8) Carolina Hurricanes: 28.5
    10) New York Rangers: 28.4

    Just like the team Guerin took over, his Wild enter the season as one of the three oldest teams in the league. The rest of that list falls into one of four bins. There’s Pittsburgh and Washington, whose mission statement is Screw it, we’re getting as many miles out of our aging star players as possible. There’s the Kraken, which was all but forced to have an aging team due to their expansion draft rules. Then there are the Stars, Leafs, Avalanche, Hurricanes, and Rangers, all who fancy themselves Cup Contenders.

    Then there’s the “Just Plain Old” bucket, where the Wild and the Islanders sit.

    It was hard to care about the team’s average age before this past weekend, given their circumstances. Minnesota needed bargains to tide them over to a deep prospect pool and the Parise/Suter shackles to loosen. Being old was a necessary evil, or so we thought.

    After signing Mats Zuccarello and Marcus Foligno to contracts that take them to their late 30s, the Guerin and the Wild front office have committed to being an old team. Their security blankets are likely to form a new type of shackle.

    Minnesota has 14 players under contract next season, slated to have an average age of 29.1 – and that’s after 35-year-old Patrick Maroon joins 38-year-olds Marc-Andre Fleury and Alex Goligoski in coming off the books. In 2025-26, the mythical year when $13 million of dead cap vanishes, the Wild are locked into nine contracts with an average age of 30.9 and as much job security as the old Old Core enjoyed.

    Seriously, look at who will be under contract in  2025-26.

    • Mats Zuccarello: Age-38 season; pending UFA; $4.125M AAV; Full No-Move Clause
    • Jared Spurgeon: Age-36 season; one year to UFA; $7.575M* AAV; 10-team No-Trade Clause
    • Marcus Foligno: Age-34 season; two years to UFA; $4M* AAV; Full No-Move Clause
    • Jonas Brodin: Age-32 season; two years to UFA; $6M AAV; Zero trade protection
    • Freddy Gaudreau: Age-32 season; two years to UFA; $2.1 million; 15-team No-Trade Clause

    And no, this doesn’t account for the Ryan Hartman (32 in 2025-26) extension that appears destined to happen.

    Obviously, prospects will start taking some spots, which might help bring that average age down a touch. But remember: Everyone else on this team is older than they’ve ever been. And now they’re even older. By the time these deals start coming off the books, Kaprizov and Eriksson Ek will be 29, with Kaprizov currently slated for UFA status. Boldy will be in Year 4 of his contract. Many ELCs – from Rossi and Faber (and more) – will expire.

    That’s assuming, of course, that the Wild won’t find themselves with a similar problem as they did in the Koivu/Parise/Suter days. The ones where young players didn’t get prominent spots in the lineup because aging, entrenched veterans with a lot of job security are soaking up vital roles. 

    The team is showing little urgency to turn their roster over to their deep prospect pool in hopes of icing a younger, faster team with more upside. Instead, Guerin seems satisfied with his group and close-knit locker room culture, despite this team being 0-for-4 in postseason series on his watch. “I get [the criticisms],” he told the media Friday when explaining why he committed to paying Foligno $19.1 million over the next five years. “But you know what? I like our team with Marcus Foligno way better than without him.”

    It can not be ignored that Guerin has watched Foligno for 23 playoff games, where he’s only scored one goal and six points. Instead of being bold, Guerin’s habitually settled for what he knows, perhaps for the fear of the unknown. “Teams would step up for somebody like Marcus,” said Guerin. “We didn’t want to see it get to that.”

    You do that for a half-dozen or more veterans on the brink of their 30s, and you get a roster that’s going to be contending for the oldest in the league over the next several years. So close to the finish line of being able to turn over the team to a new look and feel, Guerin’s front office is delivering a team that threatens to look similar to the aging team he blew up.

    Now, one with a superstar in Kirill Kaprizov, and which seems to like each other? Sure. But the Wild are sticking to the status quo, hoping the same old team won’t deliver the same old results.

    *An earlier version misprinted the AAV of Jared Spurgeon and Marcus Foligno. We regret the error.

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    46 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    You still haven't learned have you Tony.

    Those are ALL on Deano.

    Repeat after me, everything bad Deano, everything good BG.

    This is a more accurate statement in regard to who impacted what...DE

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    58 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    You still haven't learned have you Tony.

    Those are ALL on Deano.

    Repeat after me, everything bad Deano, everything good BG.

     

    1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

    I'm not going to argue Guerin's a bad GM or that he should be fired or anything, but that doesn't strike me as a terribly honest list of his flaws. Just off the top of my head.

    1. Signing Alex Goligoski to a bad two-year extension. Wild have no flexibility this season in part because their 7th defenseman is soaking up $2.5 million.
    2. The only reason they dumped Greenway is because they signed him to a three-year extension in the first place, only to flip him at the low point of his value.
    3. Losing Fiala is as much as a minus as a plus to me, personally. Had a dynamic team with loads of offense, couldn't suck it up and his team immediately goes from top-five in offense to bottom-ten. His contracts to replace him (Greenway, Jost, Steel) mostly flamed out.
    4. Constantly rejecting any sort of upside for the playoffs. Not using Boldy in 2021 against Vegas, even with injuries. Not having a single game where Kaprizov/Fiala/Rossi/Boldy are in a lineup in 2022. Not playing Rossi last year even after Ek got hurt.
    5. Poor handling of Rossi in general in favor of tired old center options that haven't gotten it done.
    6. Five year extension for Freddy Gaudreau that no one else on earth would have signed. 
    7. John Klingberg wasn't expensive, but tanking their power play in the playoffs to make a point to Calen Addison fizzled.
    8. Blocking his own rebuild with contracts to mid-30s guys in Zuccarello and Foligno

     

    And from the "Remains to Be Seen" category:
    1. How bad is this Hartman extension going to be?
    2. If His Team doesn't win, how good is it going to look sticking with a coach that hasn't won a playoff series since he was in Juniors?
    3. The Kaprizov contract situation. If Guerin bites the bullet and gives Kaprizov 10-11 million, it sounds like he signs an 8-year deal. Instead, he gives him a five-year deal that gives him the power to pick his spot, should he want to, in Year 4 (next year!). 

    This is a more accurate statement in regard to who impacted what...DE

     

    See!

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    I don't know how Dean Evason can be cast as a fall guy when it seems that Guerin's endorsed every decision, given all of his toys long-term extensions, and has Evason in town for two more years. They're on the same page. 

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    1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

    I don't know how Dean Evason can be cast as a fall guy when it seems that Guerin's endorsed every decision, given all of his toys long-term extensions, and has Evason in town for two more years. They're on the same page. 

    DE is a temporary fix, as BG says, if I can make the team better. I will

    BG cant be on the bench for DE's lacking. They may be on the same page but DE needs to execute, adjust and adapt; not his strong suit.

    BG is smart enough to not upset the applecart too soon based on direction.

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    18 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

    I don't know how Dean Evason can be cast as a fall guy when it seems that Guerin's endorsed every decision, given all of his toys long-term extensions, and has Evason in town for two more years. They're on the same page. 

    Billy and Dean can be on the same page, that's what makes a coach/GM relationship work. You don't want your GM publicly denouncing your coach or publicly questioning his decisions. The discussions going on behind the scenes or how Billy actually feels about DE is something none of us will know. Coaches get fired midst contract all the time. 

    That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win.

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    2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

    Billy and Dean can be on the same page, that's what makes a coach/GM relationship work. You don't want your GM publicly denouncing your coach or publicly questioning his decisions. The discussions going on behind the scenes or how Billy actually feels about DE is something none of us will know. Coaches get fired midst contract all the time. 

    That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win.

    Which is EXACTLY what they've been doing.

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    On 10/4/2023 at 9:51 AM, Willy the poor boy said:

    Which is EXACTLY what they've been doing.

    Is a first round loss every year winning? What does the regular season success mean if we habitually tank in playoffs year after year. Doesn't running the same roster, a year older, and expecting different results seem like insanity? 

    We doubled down on last year's mistakes and I don't see us being close to cup this year. To extend those same players and not try to inject some form of youth is a losing formula.

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    8 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    Is a first round loss every year winning? What does the regular season success mean if we habitually tank in playoffs year after year. Doesn't running the same roster, a year older, and expecting different results seem like insanity? 

    We doubled down on last year's mistakes and I don't see us being close to cup this year. To extend those same players and not try to inject some form of youth is a losing formula.

    I didn't point it out in that post, but my response was to this line in particular: "That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win."

    I think they've out performed every year DE has been coach. The common line is they haven't moved past the 1'st round, but I bet I could pull posts from everyone that says that, where at the beginning of the season, they would be saying it's doubtful they can even make the playoffs. Then they get there and they're supposed to win.

    They outplayed Dallas, but ran into a hot goaltender. That's not unusual in the playoffs.

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    15 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    I didn't point it out in that post, but my response was to this line in particular: "That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win."

    I think they've out performed every year DE has been coach. The common line is they haven't moved past the 1'st round, but I bet I could pull posts from everyone that says that, where at the beginning of the season, they would be saying it's doubtful they can even make the playoffs. Then they get there and they're supposed to win.

    They outplayed Dallas, but ran into a hot goaltender. That's not unusual in the playoffs.

    2020- Knocked out by Vancouver 1-3 Record, 2021 Knocked out by Vegas 3-4 record, 2022 Knocked out by the Blues 2-4 record, 2023 Knocked out by Dallas 2-4 record. 

    Don't act like this has been only one year that Dean has coached here. He has a proven record of losing playoff series in the NHL and AHL. Don't play it off like it was a single hot goalie that knocked us out the past 4 years. They did not outplay Dallas, hot goalie or not. 

    Most of us didn't have the expectation of playoffs because we expected an on the fly rebuild, not building at the deadline like we were a contender. As stated in Tony's most recent article, that is not what we have seen. 

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    19 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    2020- Knocked out by Vancouver 1-3 Record, 2021 Knocked out by Vegas 3-4 record, 2022 Knocked out by the Blues 2-4 record, 2023 Knocked out by Dallas 2-4 record. 

    Don't act like this has been only one year that Dean has coached here. He has a proven record of losing playoff series in the NHL and AHL. Don't play it off like it was a single hot goalie that knocked us out the past 4 years. They did not outplay Dallas, hot goalie or not. 

    Most of us didn't have the expectation of playoffs because we expected an on the fly rebuild, not building at the deadline like we were a contender. As stated in Tony's most recent article, that is not what we have seen. 

    They certainly did outplay them. The Blues series was lost because DE had to play Flower to support BG's decision to trade for him.

    2020 was Covid, it was anyone's guess as to how that whole playoff scenario would play out. They took Vegas who had tons more talent to 7 games.

    If anyone is playing anything off it's you. They are far behind the 8 ball in talent. 

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    2 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    They certainly did outplay them. The Blues series was lost because DE had to play Flower to support BG's decision to trade for him.

    Tell that to the -12 overall plus/minus rating for our team and the -7 goal differential. 3 of the games we were defeated by 3 goals or more. Those aren't close games. Couple that with them getting under our skin and us taking 121 penalty mins and it looks pretty grim. We can talk about the hypothetical of what if so and so wasn't injured all day but we were soundly defeated by the Stars.

    As for the goalie choices, this isn't politics. I don't care how it would look to the public, you run the hotter goaltender. Guerin said himself "this is about f**king winning". I think he'd forgive Evason if it got us to the second round.

    2 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    If anyone is playing anything off it's you. They are far behind the 8 ball in talent. 

    Yeah, we have a cap hit and that hurts but I am not playing off anything. Stats don't lie when it comes to our post season record.

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    Guerin is basically switching Fletchers old players for new old players, albeit ones Guerin picks. I supported keeping Zuccarello, but giving four years to foligno was a mistake. Guerin has allowed Brackett to draft a lot of young talent, but has been very hesitant to give them a pathway to the NHL.

    The Wild need a balance of young and old, so maybe 4 older forwards, 4 younger ones and 4 in between. Same for defenseman, 2 older, 2 younger and 2 in the middle. Keep Brodin and Spurgeon as the older defenseman, and then give the other for spots to younger guys. 

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    On 10/2/2023 at 10:12 PM, vonlonster67 said:

    What else has he done that's been so terrible? 

    1. Sign KK out of Russia AND extend him after initial contract?
    2. Clean house of the past regime and actually make legitimate trades: Zucker for Addison/Lambos; Kunin for Bonino/Khusnutdinov
    3. Buyout Parise/Suter and save the franchise of 7 more years of cap heist toil
    4. Change the culture and expectations of the Wild
    5. Trade Fiala for Faber/Öhgren draft pick and then use our pick to take Yurov 
    6. Trade for Middy and dumping a goalie who is never gonna make it in the NHL (Kahkonen)
    7. Trade up for a franchise goalie in Wallstedt
    8. Sign Hartman to 3yr $1.75M/yr. deal
    9. Sign Ek to a team friendly contract for 8 years
    10. Sign Boldy to a cost savings contract to 7 years
    11. Trade Talbot for Gustavsson and develop a starting goalie
    12. Dump Greenway for a legitimate 2nd round pick in Riley Heidt.
    13. McBain traded to Arizona for a 2nd for Hunter Haight
    14. Sign Sammy Walker as a UFA
    15. Trade nothing for late season additions to keep us afloat in the playoff rounds. Fleury; Middleton; Reaves; Nyquist; Johannsson

     

    1.  SIGN MARCUS FOLIGNO TO A $4M/4YR DEAL - TERRIBLE

    Well besides that...nothing! (Sarcasm)

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