Article: The Wild Are Doubling Down On Past Mistakes

[Pewterschmidt]

8 minutes ago, Protec said:

Previously MN was getting Winnick, Fehr, Stoll, Bergenhiem, etc.

I remember when Guggenheim joined the Wild (and I feel like we gave up alot to get him) and watching his first few games wondering Why TF we needed to add this dolt to the roster.  Just not good at hockey.  He got around the ice well be it never translated into a hockey play.

Come on Guerin, get that GUS trade done and give the faithful a 26 yr old diamond in the rough who can take that middle six wing spot from nojo/fred.  Someone like Tai Domi's kid a couple yrs ago when it wasn't obvious yet that he belonged in the lineup every night.  Brings some jam + hockey sense.  Go find that guy Guerin & Co.  Not a 'me too' off season move, but a 'that kid is going to be a fan favorite in couple years'.  Our next Midzy, but at the forward position.  

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, joebou15 said:

It can be argued the penalties of cap recapture were not the Wild's doing at the time they signed the biggest names in free agency 12 years ago. But since the decision to bite the bullet and buy those 2 out, there have been, at best, questionable moves that pushes that light at the end of the tunnel a few more years back. And this because of their own doing.

It's a classic bait and switch.

So, Joe, in your opinion, do you not see the flexibility of the NMCs becoming M-NTCs when it appears that the kids will be arriving? These guys wouldn't have gotten market rates, or maybe even above market rates making up for their original signing which may have been handshake deals, had we not been able to afford it with the cap penalties.

Do you not see or think that the placeholders will be traded once they are overtaken by the kids on ELCs, or much lower cap hits? At some point, if we have an influx of these kids, we'll still need to hit the cap floor. 

Assuming that Ohgren and Dino make the team, they will still be on ELCs. If The Wall makes the roster, he'll be on the last year of an ELC, and really not due much of a raise (he'll probably get the 1-way deal as his carrot). We'll still have Buium, Lambos, maybe Hunt moving up. At this point, I'd think Hunt has to beat out Chisholm, 2 different skill sets. 

As guys drop off, which could happen this year with training camp being a completely new coach and a new system expected, they may be voicing their opinion that they don't like their new roles. I could see that with Zuccarello if he drops out of the top 6. I could see that with Hartman also, though, I think he'll get used in the middle 6. Foligno probably stays, but if Bogosian is pushed to 7D, I think he could be moved. I really don't think Johansson or Gaudreau are going to like their roles and could be passed on the roster outright. 

The main thing to consider is this: Heinzy wasn't enamored with a lot of the vets. I would say he likes Trenin (helps that he is Kaprizov's friend) and he likes Middleton (who answered the bell almost every game regardless of his health condition). I think the jury is still out on Zuccarello, Hartman, and Foligno. I suspect that he will like Hartman and Foligno's games as they can play heavy. I'm not sure he liked Hartman's end of the year suspension for javelin throwing. (Hartman seems to me to be a guy that absolutely can not stand losing)

Even with term, I could see these guys getting switched out. They were all signed prior to the coaching change, so that changes the way they see their role. Nothing will be public, but I could see Zuccarello moving on at the TDL. 

[mnfaninnc]

18 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Lundell signs for 6 years @ 5 mill.

Any ideas on how that may affect Rossi's deal?

Stat wise I think Rossi had a better year in a much worse situation than Lundy...

Lundell also has 3 NHL seasons under his belt, Rossi has one where he was good and one where he was not ready. For me, I'm thinking bridge deal. 

[mnfaninnc]

16 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Kap I'm capping at 11 mill. I don't think you can give him more than Pastrnak from Boston can you? I'd actually say a mill less is fair.

Yes you can, and will probably have to because of capflation. 

[mnfaninnc]

15 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I mean pretty fun perspective there on the Reddit link but the 25-26 scenarios depend on 6 rookies to be NHL ready.  (Wall, Yurov, Heidt, Ohgren, Hoos, and Z)

Tough sell.

That may be the wrong 6 as Lambos and Buium could also be on this list. And, we have no idea how Spurgeon will look, he may get LTIR'd through the rest of his contract after taking 1 big hit and wrecking his back an hip surgeries.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I remember when Guggenheim joined the Wild (and I feel like we gave up alot to get him) and watching his first few games wondering Why TF we needed to add this dolt to the roster.  Just not good at hockey.  He got around the ice well be it never translated into a hockey play.

Come on Guerin, get that GUS trade done and give the faithful a 26 yr old diamond in the rough who can take that middle six wing spot from nojo/fred.  Someone like Tai Domi's kid a couple yrs ago when it wasn't obvious yet that he belonged in the lineup every night.  Brings some jam + hockey sense.  Go find that guy Guerin & Co.  Not a 'me too' off season move, but a 'that kid is going to be a fan favorite in couple years'.  Our next Midzy, but at the forward position.  

Or Zuccy.  Get this guy moved for some rough neck who's had a cup of coffee in the pro's.  Sort of a Lauko with a little more offense.

[mnfaninnc]

59 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Come on Guerin, get that GUS trade done and give the faithful a 26 yr old diamond in the rough who can take that middle six wing spot from nojo/fred.  Someone like Tai Domi's kid a couple yrs ago when it wasn't obvious yet that he belonged in the lineup every night.  Brings some jam + hockey sense.  Go find that guy Guerin & Co.  Not a 'me too' off season move, but a 'that kid is going to be a fan favorite in couple years'.  Our next Midzy, but at the forward position.  

I like the idea of who to bring in, but am not in favor of trading Goose. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt and hope for a bounce back year. That could be really good, and if needed, we could trade him at a high point, not a low point. 

Let's just say the Goose has a real good defense in front of him again? Maybe he needs that to perform better? Wouldn't he be a good trade candidate then? 

I still like the idea of a Goose/The Wall battery next year. I think it will be very solid.

[Pewterschmidt]

22 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Lundell also has 3 NHL seasons under his belt, Rossi has one where he was good and one where he was not ready. For me, I'm thinking bridge deal. 

Lundell has also played a regular shift playing big boy hockey on a Stanley Cup winning team.  These two players are apples and oranges right now.  I'm glad we have Rossi but these two are not comparable right now.  If Rossi pots 30G, 30A next year they're comparable because Rossi brings more offense but cannot play Lundell's playoff brand of hockey. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 minute ago, Pewterschmidt said:

If Rossi pots 30G, 30A next year they're comparable because Rossi brings more offense but cannot play Lundell's playoff brand of hockey. 

For Rossi to play that playoff brand of hockey, he merely needs to add 10-15 more lbs. this offseason. With that, he'll be like a bowling ball going into the corners. 

Personally, I believe 5 lower body and 10 upper body would be best for him, especially in the chest area. His arms looked very thick in a late interview last season. This is how Ek did it. And, we all saw Ek as a beast in his 3rd season. 

[Pewterschmidt]

9 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Or Zuccy.  Get this guy moved for some rough neck who's had a cup of coffee in the pro's.  Sort of a Lauko with a little more offense.

I will say that Lauko + Trenin > Malachi Crunch Bros. AND Dew Drop Twins

Malachi's were middle six tweeners and Dewy's were bubble 3rd liners.

Hoping new guys play a sturdier bottom six game.  

[Pewterschmidt]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

For Rossi to play that playoff brand of hockey, he merely needs to add 10-15 more lbs. this offseason. With that, he'll be like a bowling ball going into the corners. 

Personally, I believe 5 lower body and 10 upper body would be best for him, especially in the chest area. His arms looked very thick in a late interview last season. This is how Ek did it. And, we all saw Ek as a beast in his 3rd season. 

Even if he could add that kind of weight and not let it affect his athleticism I think he'd still need a heart/brain/soul/motor transplant with Marchand/Domi/Marsschy.

Whatever it is that makes these little guys so GD tough, Rossi needs some of that so he doesn't go the Granlund route when playoff hockey begins. 

[mnfaninnc]

3 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Even if he could add that kind of weight and not let it affect his athleticism I think he'd still need a heart/brain/soul/motor transplant with Marchand/Domi/Marsschy.

I thought his play last year had a lot more heart in it. He had the confidence he wouldn't be owned in the corners. I think with the added strength, he'll be even more engaged.

As for heart, the 2 goals he scored against St. Louis late in the season said a lot. The fight sticking up for Kaprizov was all I needed to know about the kid's heart. He didn't even hesitate to drop 'em either. 

It is also rumored that many of the guys down in Iowa see him as an inspiration. Perhaps they take a page out of his book and all come into camp ripped 15 lbs. heavier? I'd love to see that from Mikey Milne, and Bankier! Some hungry guys who simply mug Johansson in the corners making him expendable. 

[mnfaninnc]

I know we've focused pretty much on the Wild these past few days, but has anyone noticed what the Canes have done? They lost some really big names from their team and have decided to replace them with more bottom 6, grindy type players (except for Jost). They look like they are taking a page out of Guerin's book, except they get Carrier for 6 X $2m instead of Trenin. 

For all the criticism Shooter has taken over Trenin, it is possible that this was the one guy that Heinzy wanted, and that they had competition to get him. 

Also, Mason Shaw signed on with Winnipeg. Not sure if it was a 1-way or 2 way deal, but his NHL salary is $775k, or league minimum. I'm surprised we did not offer him that type of deal if it is 2-way.

I also like the way Iowa is shaping up, as Guerin added plenty of size down there. While it's not my money, I would hope that Leipold would see the need to really renovate the training facilities in Iowa to get these young guys properly trained. That is something he can do that is outside of the rules for salary cap. 

[Burnt Toast]

On 7/3/2024 at 11:49 AM, Will D. Ness said:

If you got top 6 talent playing in the bottom 6, on ELC then you win the cup

Exactly. Case in point Brockmeister. 1M this year, 8-9M next year. Getting high value talent on ELCs rocks. Slow rolling prospects is costing the Wild a mint. Next up JW. If Gus isn’t traded he’s not playing many games on his ELC. I know each player has their own developmental timeline but there has to be a better way of managing new players. That’s because there is a bunch of young players coming, hopefully. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

10 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

give the faithful a 26 yr old diamond in the rough who can take that middle six wing spot from nojo/fred. Brings some jam + hockey sense.

Isn't that kind of what he was trying to do with Trenin?

He's 27, but kind of lines up with your request.

[Pewterschmidt]

10 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Isn't that kind of what he was trying to do with Trenin?

He's 27, but kind of lines up with your request.

Trenin is described as a “4th liner (think heavier Duhaime) who can play 3rd line minutes” (think Dewar).  I want a player who can someday work into middle/top six.  Y’MCA isn’t that guy 

[Pewterschmidt]

43 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Trenin is described as a “4th liner (think heavier Duhaime) who can play 3rd line minutes” (think Dewar).  I want a player who can someday work into middle/top six.  Y’MCA isn’t that guy 

I’m looking for a 3rd liner who can play 2nd line minutes

[Will D. Ness]

On 7/4/2024 at 8:36 AM, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Yurov has been highly successful in the best league short of the NHL.

Buium has been highly successful in the top non-pro league, and should be considered to be around Faber's level(when he entered the NHL).

Wall, Ohgren, and Khusnutdinov(Dewar replacement) already made it to NHL ice and will play bigger roles this year. Heidt is the largest question mark there, but the Wild don't need him to hit. They can afford someone else in that spot.

I don't think translating into the NHL is so cut and dry.  I'm not sold on Wall, Ohgren and Hoos yet and they have had a little time here.  There is optimism and potential for all these guys, but writing them in is a fantasy.

[Protec]

I think it's more about balance and utilization.

Yes, MN ha some talented young prospects on the NHL cusp. Ogie and Knudi got to test the waters with some success. Yurov played 85 games last season with 59pts and was a +31.

The Wild have a core and they've locked in the next 3-4 years with cost certainty and role players. There's been complaints about no top six winger but MN can get the results they need with balance. Think about these lines for example. There would be room to improve and it will be a requirement when the contracts end for 2024-25. Yes, MN will have to sign RFAs and rely on rookies but with another year to evaluate and prepare, MN can again upgrade or make moves to improve.

L1: Boldy - Ek - Kaprizov

L2: Ogie - Rossi - Trenin

L3: Zuccy - Hartman - Foligno

L4: Lauko - Knudi - Fred/NoJo

Unless a player like Heidt or somebody stuns the coaches at camp, this lineup is already improved from last season. It's safe to say the younger players should be better than last season and there's some depth if players get injured. The trade deadline or in-season moves could boost the lineup too. Given this dynamic and expiring players there should be motivation for everyone to win and get better and prove they've got what it takes to win. I think this scenario could be less about top-six/bottom-six and more balanced line that can roll out effectively similar to what Florida was doing or Dallas before they lost. When Edmonton was winning, it was the same thing but it helped to play with a lead. When the Oilers were down a goal and going too much McDavid/Draisaitl it became too easy to defend and therefore hurt the team. It's gotta be balanced and bought-into. MN is better positioned to do that now this season. Last year MN essentially had L1, L3, and two L4s with injuries on defense.

[Protec]

17 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

I don't think translating into the NHL is so cut and dry.  I'm not sold on Wall, Ohgren and Hoos yet and they have had a little time here.  There is optimism and potential for all these guys, but writing them in is a fantasy.

I don't think the Wild have much choice. I think they gave the auditions and moved the players they did to message Ogie and Knudi, be ready.

There's some depth with Lauko, Clarke, Sop, Raska, but it's clear MN wasn't in on 4M+ UFAs this season. Tarasenko signed for around that number but MN held off.

It seems pretty obvious by now that they're being patient and pushing for internal solutions. Yes they're expecting a significant step from a couple guys. I'm not doubting Ogie & Knudi can combine for the equivalent to the Dewey's production from last year which added up to a whopping 31pts.

Wallstedt might need to stay in the AHL partially to prevent him from needing a big extension too soon. That's a low-key advantage to signing Fleury one more year. Now that MN has Buium who looks way better as a prospect than Brodin overall, MN can potentially trade a pick or prospects to further improve.

I'd like to see more focus on MN's potential than the ultra-negative trash-talking about failures and contracts that rewarded player's solid seasons for the Wild. I agree, if young guys or vets don't perform it could be a playoff miss. That's less likely IMO than Rossi and the youth getting better AND I think some of the vets can bounce back nicely. NoJo sucks but maybe he'll find a way to suck less with it being the final year of his deal? That's more of an unknown than Knudi & Ogie for me.

[Protec]

2 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I’m looking for a 3rd liner who can play 2nd line minutes

I think MN has one of these guys, we've just not seen the proof yet.

[Will D. Ness]

23 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

That may be the wrong 6 as Lambos and Buium could also be on this list. And, we have no idea how Spurgeon will look, he may get LTIR'd through the rest of his contract after taking 1 big hit and wrecking his back an hip surgeries.

I'm going to give Spurg the benefit of the doubt that he comes back to a relative form for his age.  Yeah the surgeries were major but look how Parise and Kane rebounded from their major surgeries.

[Will D. Ness]

38 minutes ago, Protec said:

I'd like to see more focus on MN's potential than the ultra-negative trash-talking about failures and contracts that rewarded player's solid seasons for the Wild. I agree, if young guys or vets don't perform it could be a playoff miss. That's less likely IMO than Rossi and the youth getting better AND I think some of the vets can bounce back nicely. NoJo sucks but maybe he'll find a way to suck less with it being the final year of his deal? That's more of an unknown than Knudi & Ogie for me.

Me too, but it seems that the MO on this forum is to swing that club on the horse carcass over and over and over and I want my turn.

I do think the Middleton signing was kind of a last straw for me, but don't let my criticism fool you... I am highly optimistic about these young guys and the team.  I'll bet anyone here that we make the playoffs next year.  I wish we had some sort of forum currency to gamble with.

But the criticism for BG is warranted, especially since it has now become clear that he is not concerned about creating any free market opportunities here but rather is playing a pretty simple formula with tendencies that are more dogmatic than dynamic... maybe even apathetic?

I'm getting the sense that BG is more of a whoopie cushion guy than an aces up the sleeve type of guy here.  Next year will expose him fully either way.

Anyways, when this season gets closer... my mood will change for sure.  Gametime changes it all.

[Pewterschmidt]

5 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

I'm getting the sense that BG is more of a whoopie cushion guy than an aces up the sleeve type of guy here.

This is a great hot take.  What do you mean by this sentence?

[Will D. Ness]

1 minute ago, Pewterschmidt said:

This is a great hot take.  What do you mean by this sentence?

Think Shooter McGavin meme with fart sounds instead of laser beams?  If I had Protec's skills I would make it.