Article: John Hynes's Top-Heavy Lineup Can Help Identify Minnesota's Roster Holes

[Lovehockey]

Agree with the Beast 100 %. And if Kaprizov thinks the same way it is even worse

[B1GKappa97]

14 hours ago, Beast said:

This thing is an absolute mess right now, and I don’t see how it gets any better.  That could drive Kaprisov to want out, and then we are absolutely up shit creek.  This feels like a house of cards in its way down, and it’s going to take years to rebuild it.  All we have is this pipe dream that OHL/WHL guys like Heidt and Haight continue to develop and make it here within a few years as our prospect pool ranking regresses back to middle of the pack.

Not an easy pill to swallow for the homers right now, but it is what it is.

It gets better with positive regression toward the mean. We just had a season where pretty much anything that could go wrong often did. Its unlikely that happens in back to back years. 

I think you're taking an overly fatalistic, and short-term, view on the team, personally. You don't think Yurov is coming over ever? They've clearly been in communication with him. He is in their future plans.

There's still Ohgren and Khusnutdinov who are injecting youth and, hopefully, talent into the club's bottom-6 in the meantime. We also have a great chance to add either a top-6 forward or a top-4 defenseman in this upcoming draft.

If its a blue liner, that player will likely be big. Tankathon has us projected to take Silyayev, who is a 6'7'' 207 lb Russian monster. At worst he can play the Bogo role most likely. There's an outside chance that he's not at #13 and we're "stuck" selection a potential top-line quality player who only falls because he's not 6'+ 200 lbs. A guy like Konsta Helenius would definitely upgrade the top-6. I'm hoping that a guy like Catton falls due to his size, because he's got undeniable top-line talent. 

Guys like Zuccarello, BOGO and Mojo are just placeholders until we have more cap-space to add another top-6 forward, or top-4 blue liner, because none of the AHL guys are ready and I doubt Heidt is going to jump from the OHL to a top-6 role immediately.  

And honestly, in regards to #97, if Kaprizov wants out... well, its not like he's taken us any further than we've already gone, right? He's a great player, I hope he stays, but somehow other franchises are finding ways to win Stanley Cups without Kirill Kaprizov on their team.. 

[mnfaninnc]

CHL Update:

Last night it was the OHL's turn. Oshawa lost in double OT, Kumpulainen no points but was pretty good in the dot.

Saginaw hangs on with another win, now down 3-2 to the London Knights. Haight-hat trick!

Keeping an eye on these guys, both in the O and W, and Yurov's run in the K has been a little weird. Usually, after a season, the prospects get a PTO with the A club. However, none of the big clubs are playing, just the prospects. 

It looks like Beast and Dean are going to need an intervention soon as the sky is falling for them. Yes, there are holes on the roster. Holes are the best thing for young guys to fill. They are opportunities. I think some tempered expectations are needed. Even if we traded for Tkachuk and landed Lindstrom in the draft, we still weren't a contender for next season. We're not now, either. 

As the young guys develop, the team that Guerin is building will be getting better. The "dead weight" that is seen now, will be moved down the lineup and some moved out. I'd love to shake the roster up a bit and insert more young players, but some, especially the defenders are simply not ready yet. 

BK is right, everything that could go wrong went wrong last season. I do think we'll end up with better luck, and have a better chance at filling injury vacancies with the youth 1 season older. My main thing that Heinzy's got to address here is effort. I found it lacking last season at key times and this has to change. On that front, a player may need to be sacrificed or made an example of. Top of the list here is Johansson, who has had 2 lackluster stints here, sandwiching a 20 game hot streak. 

Let's take Heinzy at his word, though. Slate is clean coming into camp. All players must earn their spots and roles. I expect a vigorous camp and a spirited developmental camp. 

Does anyone have word if we are doing that showcase thing again? I think it had expanded to include the Blues? 

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, Lern2spell said:

All of these guys were given multiple chances throughout the lineup to prove they had another level, and only became the player they are after the reality hit of being traded...Nino and Coyle especially. However, the returns will always be suspect.

I'm not so sure I agree with them really getting a full shot. The "important" minutes were dominated by Parise, Suter, Koivu, Staal. The younger guys never really had the opportunity to own the team, or own the outcomes. Koivu, Parise, Suter were usually your starting trio in OT, often times losing it on the 1st shift. When it came to trying to tie it up, it was Parise, Suter, Koivu, Staal on the ice 6-5. The younger guys were treated like 2nd class on the team. 

Of course, these were also the guys wearing letters. 

[Pewterschmidt]

15 hours ago, Beast said:

Zuccarello has been a minus player in 3 of his 5 years with the Wild.

Zuccy really got exposed this year when he was moved off of 97’s line.  Without 97 he brings almost nothing to the table

[FredJohnson]

18 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

It really isn't that he traded them, it's how it all went down in each instance. But ya, 80 point players are hard to come by, I'd take FiFi...

7 year , $55,125,000 contract with the Los Angeles Kings, including $16,000,000 signing bonus, $55,125,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $7,875,000

29 goals - 44 assists - 73 points- +/- 1

Fifi is an older Matt Boldy.

[FredJohnson]

GMBG gonna lace 'em up and cull the roster like this. (I'm joking, everybody)

[Protec]

Many of the negative points made here are good. There's positive hope too but there's good reason to be concerned with obvious shortcomings related to the roster. 

The Wild are handicapped so hard with lost money, injuries, and veterans either fizzling-out or being total blowbags that it's fair to allow some excuses. 

Putting it together for an overview from 30K feet, there are clearly things that need to be done sooner than later. There's half a dozen guys who need to be upgraded. There's half a dozen more who need to take another step or find themselves again. If the roster doesn't overperform in a few areas, the Wild will be looking at year two of lateral movement or worse. 

The goalies are gonna need that and Spurgeon getting traded is almost required at this point. The cost and size factors combined with seeing a Wild defense core without him gives Guerin an idea how to formulate a new group. Chisholm is learning, Mermis, Middleton, Merrill, and Bogo are all pretty basic players. That chunk of guys aren't stopping VGK or competing on paper with Peiterangelo, Whitecloud, Hanafin, McNabb, etc. 

It's time to forget about feelings or stoicism. Let go of players who are just average and bring in better quality players. Period. Don't care how likable Foligno is in the PR vids. Not worried about generating new nicknames when the Norwegian Hobbit is gone. Guerin needs to shitcan NoJo if he wants to "rebuild trust". Otherwise, a static off-season with a return to the same stale veterans should at least be transparent as a throwaway year. That way at least we'd understand what's happening instead of making it look like they're trying to win a Cup but serving fans the laziest #90 Swedish meatball with a hairy-neck cold.

[Up North Guy]

17 hours ago, Beast said:

The roster holes have been clear for quite some time now.

Foligno proved it by doing everything he could to torpedo the Dallas series by acting like a fool and putting a target on his back for officials.

Gaudreau has never been anything other than a serviceable 4th liner and occasional shoot out specialist (which is irrelevant in the playoffs).

Hartman has never been a top 6 caliber forward/center, and even if he were, he can’t stay out of the penalty box.

Zuccarello has been a minus player in 3 of his 5 years with the Wild.  His positive years are propped up by playing with Kaprisov (who could make me a positive +\-).  He can’t win a face off, and hasn’t even taken one in 3 years.  He registers roughly one hit every 4 games.  He basically has as many giveaways as takeaways.  He starts in the offensive zone nearly 75% of the time.  He doesn’t shoot or score goals.  He’s an aged playmaker who seemingly needs to be paired with elite scorers in order to succeed, and is not a guy built for playoff hockey.  No team with Zuccarello in the top 6 is winning anything.

I don’t even have to say anything other than MOJO.

Our goalies stink.  Gus and Fluery were 42nd and 52nd in the NHL, respectively, in SV%, and 38th and 45th in GAA.  Frankly, I don’t care about watching the death throws of Fluery’s career.

Even with the emergence of Faber, the D core was exposed this year.  Spurgeon and Brodin, while effective, are showing some tread wear and spending more and more time on the injured list.  Declan Chisholm is a fine power play guy, but not the greatest defender and doesn’t play a ton at even strength, averaging about 1 shot per game all inclusive, which is less than Bogosian who is sort of just a guy.  I like Middleton, but he didn’t have a great year.  Goligoski is a corpse on skates at this point, and we resorted to playing Dakota Mermis in 47 games and Merrill in 65 games.

Theres plenty to like here as building blocks.  Obviously, Kaprisov and Faber are elite.  Ek is a well rounded workhorse.  Boldy and Rossi appear to be very good, young, top 6 forwards (although all anyone talks about is trading Rossi for some reason).  I was a little underwhelmed by Khusnutdinov, but there’s some hope there.  Ohgren looks like a solid complementary piece in the top 6.  But, that’s not nearly enough.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure if we can improve on anything.  The dead weight just got signed to multiple year NMCs for some inexplicable reason.  We’re stuck with a bad goalie tandem for at least one more year, and who knows what we’ll get out of Wall in the next couple of years (he’s not ready).  We have zero cap space to bring in anybody, and our top prospect got roped into another KHL deal after he changed his tune about assuredly coming to the US (another master class by Geurin).  Who knows when or if we’ll see him.  Everyone was bent out of shape about Fletcher trading picks….now we’re just using them to draft fourth liners in the first round with multiple top 25 prospects still on the board (Perrault, Musty) and multiple others in the top 100 (Bonk, Gulyayev).  “But we needed a big center.”  David Edstrom is a 6’3” center who is ranked 53 by hockey writers and was taken 32nd by the Knights.  Calum Ritchie, the 72nd ranked prospect and skilled center was also there.

We are still winning enough games to be in the middle of the first round and miss out on the elite prospects, drawing out the timeline.

This thing is an absolute mess right now, and I don’t see how it gets any better.  That could drive Kaprisov to want out, and then we are absolutely up shit creek.  This feels like a house of cards in its way down, and it’s going to take years to rebuild it.  All we have is this pipe dream that OHL/WHL guys like Heidt and Haight continue to develop and make it here within a few years as our prospect pool ranking regresses back to middle of the pack.

Not an easy pill to swallow for the homers right now, but it is what it is.

Beast, i see your points and don't really disagree. But i am too old to be that negative so i guess I will just watch and enjoy what i can and hope for the future.

[Protec]

23 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

7 year , $55,125,000 contract with the Los Angeles Kings, including $16,000,000 signing bonus, $55,125,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $7,875,000

29 goals - 44 assists - 73 points- +/- 1

Fifi is an older Matt Boldy.

I'm looking at Boldy already and wondering if he's peaked? One more similar off-season golfing full-time, ho-hum regular season or if the Wild make the playoffs and he shrinks, I'm saying trade him. Fiala, Zucker, and even Nino have never become anything different than what we saw in their time here. 

Boldy has progressed somewhat but I'm about ready to say either he's a complimentary guy on a good team like Coyle. NOT a leader who carries a team or is a gamebreaker by himself. Worth 7M, sure if properly fit on a solid roster but currently it's at to pay for another one-trick offensive skill pony. 

Look at Suegin for example. Peaked early and has been just decent over the length of his expensive deal. NOT like Kucherov, MacKinnon, or others who appear to keep getting better. MN guys are almost always seen as better than they really are. Especially by MN fans with the exception of #97.

[Protec]

39 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

GMBG gonna lace 'em up and cull the roster like this. (I'm joking, everybody)

I'm not necessarily saying it's great but that's an instinct or temper or passion that MN lacks. Is that the way to harness the energy and feel the flow. Definitely not in the playoffs but the point is, MN has guys like NoJo who Guerin likes for some reason and is the most apathetic hockey player I've ever seen. 

That completely flies in the face of what Guerin was and perhaps still is. Oxymoron seems like. Maybe the head injuries are catching up to Bill. Be watching for his eyes to go even more crossed. That's an indication and maybe he doesn't see NoJo the way we do. Literally.

😁

Edited May 4 by Protec

[Will D. Ness]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Zuccy really got exposed this year when he was moved off of 97’s line.  Without 97 he brings almost nothing to the table

It's hard to be effective on a line when 90% of zone entries are NoJo skating to a corner and turning over the puck.

Just think if you went from KK97 to NoJo.  It's like going from prime rib to spam.

Zucc might still have a little in the tank... I hope.  Hard to say.

[Willy the poor boy]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:42 AM, FredJohnson said:

7 year , $55,125,000 contract with the Los Angeles Kings, including $16,000,000 signing bonus, $55,125,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $7,875,000

29 goals - 44 assists - 73 points- +/- 1

Fifi is an older Matt Boldy.

Only in MN. would fans not want an 80 point player on their team.

[Mateo3xm]

I noticed there is an incredible amount of huge dman in this draft, way more than what usually seems to come along, so I made this list of potential players to grab after the first round since most are rated to go after the first. It’s crazy how many quality Right handed Defenders are in this draft.

The Wild are in desperate need of getting bigger on the backend so I sincerely hope they get at least a couple of these guys because of how rare the quantity and quality are.

 

 

Charlie Elick RHD

Projected at pick 22-49

RHD 6’3, 198lbs (one of best skaters in draft, very physical, not a lot of offensive but good D)https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/597844/charlie-elick

 

Adam Kleber, RHD 

Projected at picks 34-93

6ft 5in, 209lbs (Not a lot of offense but good defense, skating needs work)

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/597574/adam-kleber

 

Dominik Badinka RHD 

Projected at picks 23-48

6ft 3, 190lbs (solid/average in every area good blend of offense and defense) https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/727927/dominik-badinka

 

Adam Jiricek RHD

Projected at picks 12-30

6ft 2in to 6ft 3in 168lbs (very good defensively, very physical and punishing despite being listed at 168lbs, hasn’t shown a lot of offense but has the skill to, injured)https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/755151/adam-jiricek

 

Matvei Shuravin LHD

Projected at picks 19-70

6ft 2in 172lbs (solid/average in every area good skater, has potential for good offense)

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/618880/matvei-shuravin

 

E.J. Emery, RHD

Projected at picks 22-62

6ft 3in 185lbs (defensive D that skates well, can shut down, not a lot of offense thou)

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/618957/ej-emery

 

Stian Solberg LHD

Projected at picks 21-58

6ft 2in 201lbs (he plays a heavy, old-school game and is a menacing hitter with a clinical hip-check”, good skater, has offense, well rounded) https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/619175/stian-solberg

 

Tomas Lavoie RHD

Projected at picks 38-83

6ft 4in 225lbs( physical, strong, good skating for size 225lbs, shut down D, big shot but limited offense) https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/610512/tomas-lavoie

 

Jesse Pulkkinen LHD

Projected at picks 24-42

6ft 6in 216lbs (unicorn, physical, good skating for size, high offensive numbers, responsible defensively, late bloomer, over ager(19yrs) https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/709399/jesse-pulkkinen

 

Spencer Gill RHD

Projected at picks 44-80

6ft 3in 179lbs (moves the puck really well, high hockey iq, two way defender, good skating for size, good passer, needs work on defense area, needs more strength) https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/716274/spencer-gill

 

Will Skahan LHD

Projected at picks 39-83

6ft 4, 212lbs (excellent shape, big hits and sound defensively, high hockey iq, good speed, hard to play against, not a lot of offense)

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/597634/will-skahan

 

Luca Marrelli RHD

Projected at picks 40-92

6ft 2in, 179lbs (good offense two way defenseman, great skater, good passing,good pts production in the ohl (57) good vision, https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=248728

[Protec]

1 hour ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Only in MN. would fans not want an 80 point player on their team.

What's the point if they're a playoff no-show? IF Fiala had stayed in MN and signed, the Wild would be stuck with that contract, no Faber, and the likelihood MN would be any closer to a Cup doesn't change. 

Not like they traded an affordable guy who wanted to be here and is a playoff beast.

[Willy the poor boy]

44 minutes ago, Protec said:

What's the point if they're a playoff no-show? IF Fiala had stayed in MN and signed, the Wild would be stuck with that contract, no Faber, and the likelihood MN would be any closer to a Cup doesn't change. 

Not like they traded an affordable guy who wanted to be here and is a playoff beast.

I'm not convinced they're a playoff no show with Fiala on the team. Simply put you need players that can put the puck in the net. Fiala is a guy that can put the puck in the net.

[Protec]

^^^

I'm just saying he doesn't do it enough in the playoffs. KF ratio of points/production for regular season Vs. playoffs is totally different. Zucker was that way. Boldy has kinda telegraphed that. 

You just can't have that and expect to win when EDM, DAL, COL, VGK, and some of the East teams have serious playoff guys doing it every year and getting better at it while MN or Fiala are out real quick. My attitude is that you're wasting your time with skill, and finesse, and guys who can't get it done in the biggest moments.

Now I'm not saying I have the answer for that but I know MN doesn't have those guys right now. 

[Willy the poor boy]

37 minutes ago, Protec said:

^^^

I'm just saying he doesn't do it enough in the playoffs. KF ratio of points/production for regular season Vs. playoffs is totally different. Zucker was that way. Boldy has kinda telegraphed that. 

You just can't have that and expect to win when EDM, DAL, COL, VGK, and some of the East teams have serious playoff guys doing it every year and getting better at it while MN or Fiala are out real quick. My attitude is that you're wasting your time with skill, and finesse, and guys who can't get it done in the biggest moments.

Now I'm not saying I have the answer for that but I know MN doesn't have those guys right now. 

The thing in common with those teams is they have multiple high end scorers. They don't rely on one guy and the others chipping in here and there. I get what your saying about doing it in the playoffs and 'maybe that's true with Fiala, I don't know. Just like the DE will never win a 1'st round playoff series I just find it hard to believe that someone who can excel in the regular season can't come through in the post season all things being equal.

[Protec]

4 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

The thing in common with those teams is they have multiple high end scorers. They don't rely on one guy and the others chipping in here and there. I get what your saying about doing it in the playoffs and 'maybe that's true with Fiala, I don't know. Just like the DE will never win a 1'st round playoff series I just find it hard to believe that someone who can excel in the regular season can't come through in the post season all things being equal.

I can tell ya for a 100% fact there are "playoff guys". Justin Williams had that nickname but look at Wyatt Johnston. MN took Wallstedt, that's cool but Dallas got Johnston a couple picks later and the guy does nothing but score big playoff goals as a kid. Opening goal tonight already. Individual play and one to capture momentum at home.

That's exactly what every good playoff team needs. MN might have capable scorers but you're right there's no depth for the Wild and certainly no Verhaeghe, Zibanejad, Stone, Tofolli,  MacKinnon, or Draisaitl who truly elevate for playoffs and are always getting on the scoresheet. Boeser looked really good for Vancouver too besides JT Miller. 

I will not miss Fiala. The Wild have problems but they need to fix it with character and guts. You might say, well they can't afford it or that teams don't part with those kind of players. Guerin had better figure out a way cause the guys MN has right now like NoJo can't even backcheck. Other than Ek and Kaprizov who drive their line, it's a steep drop-off without any dangerous players who are playoff performers except maybe Hartman who's had some really good games. He's had some poor ones too so I'm not arguing he's in the playoff-guy category but if MN gathered and cultivated more of that element, there's a few current players who could be more effective than they are with the current lineup. 

The sum of parts is still needed but MN is missing two or three key guys. 

[Mateo3xm]

On 5/4/2024 at 10:17 AM, Protec said:

I'm looking at Boldy already and wondering if he's peaked? One more similar off-season golfing full-time, ho-hum regular season or if the Wild make the playoffs and he shrinks, I'm saying trade him. Fiala, Zucker, and even Nino have never become anything different than what we saw in their time here. 

Boldy has progressed somewhat but I'm about ready to say either he's a complimentary guy on a good team like Coyle. NOT a leader who carries a team or is a gamebreaker by himself. Worth 7M, sure if properly fit on a solid roster but currently it's at to pay for another one-trick offensive skill pony. 

Look at Suegin for example. Peaked early and has been just decent over the length of his expensive deal. NOT like Kucherov, MacKinnon, or others who appear to keep getting better. MN guys are almost always seen as better than they really are. Especially by MN fans with the exception of #97.

Boldy is 23 years old..

that should put things into perspective. That JEE, Boldy and Kap line was relatively new correct? That line was one of the best lines in hockey from a production standpoint. Can you imagine what his production would be if he played on it all year? I’ve said it before but statistically players don’t enter their prime till 24-26 years old. 
The fact that you are suggesting we trade boldy is absolutely ludicrous. He’s one of the last players you should be worried about. I legitimately think he’s capable of 70-90pts with talented line mates.

[Protec]

14 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

Boldy is 23 years old..

that should put things into perspective. That JEE, Boldy and Kap line was relatively new correct? That line was one of the best lines in hockey from a production standpoint. Can you imagine what his production would be if he played on it all year? I’ve said it before but statistically players don’t enter their prime till 24-26 years old. 
The fact that you are suggesting we trade boldy is absolutely ludicrous. He’s one of the last players you should be worried about. I legitimately think he’s capable of 70-90pts with talented line mates.

That's a persuasive argument and perhaps Boldy's 1 playoff goal in 12 games will improve. 

That was kinda my point which is the Wild lack real playoff depth and big game guys. Boldy could become one, maybe. Or that line can get loose in the playoffs with some other threat to draw the enemy fire to some degree.

It's been cool to see that line succeed, but I give most of the credit to 95pt #97 who was on a tear late in the year. Do I really dislike Boldy, no. I am watching guys like Lundell, Jarvis, and Johnston who keep scoring and setting up playoff goals nearly every game. The important part is the Wild need that and have to find it somewhere. 

NSH tried to ride their top line and it wasn't enough to beat VAN. MN is in the same spot. Too top heavy a line with Ek driving it. No second layer of attack or balance. Boldy is a nice player but it would be much better if he could drive a line or was a clutch guy or powerful force. Let's hope he doesn't like last season's start and end. If he determines to come into 24-25 on fire and prove me foolish to question his big-game-ness, then that would be fantastic. The top line in the league stats you use don't mean squat though if the team still comes up short. Obviously it's more important the team wins than individual or line stats.

[FredJohnson]

On 5/4/2024 at 10:28 AM, Protec said:

Maybe the head injuries are catching up to Bill. Be watching for his eyes to go even more crossed. That's an indication and maybe he doesn't see NoJo the way we do. Literally

😂😂😂

[FredJohnson]

10 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Only in MN. would fans not want an 80 point player on their team.

We wanted him. We couldn't afford him.

[FredJohnson]

10 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Only in MN. would fans not want an 80 point player on their team.

And he didn't get 80 points.

[B1GKappa97]

19 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

I'm not convinced they're a playoff no show with Fiala on the team. Simply put you need players that can put the puck in the net. Fiala is a guy that can put the puck in the net.

Fiala in 23-24 playoffs - 5 games, 1 goal

Fiala in 22-23 playoffs - 3 games, 1 goal

Fiala in 21-22 playoffs - 6 games, 0 goals

Fiala in 20-21 playoffs - 7 games, 1 goal

Just sayin'...

Edited May 6 by B1GKappa97