Article: John Hynes's Top-Heavy Lineup Can Help Identify Minnesota's Roster Holes

[Justin Hein]

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[Citizen Strife]

I spent a few minutes posting a "What the Wild have" post in the Lindstrom feed, only for this exact article to drop a little bit later...lol

[FredJohnson]

John Hynes's Top-Heavy Lineup Can Help Identify Minnesota's Roster Holes
😳

[B1GKappa97]

So anyone still pining for Fiala or Talbot after the Kings went out in 5 games? 

Anyone? Bueller??

[Protec]

10 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

So anyone still pining for Fiala or Talbot after the Kings went out in 5 games? 

Anyone? Bueller??

I pointed this out in the other thread. Fiala with 2pts in 5 games and a -1.

Rittich was between the pipes for the elimination game. 

Glad MN isn't on the hook for that money and playoff no-show.

Time to start finding the kinds of players who play well on the biggest stage.

[B1GKappa97]

1 minute ago, Protec said:

I pointed this out in the other thread. Fiala with 2pts in 5 games and a -1.

Rittich was between the pipes for the elimination game. 

Glad MN isn't on the hook for that money and playoff no-show.

Time to start finding the kinds of players who play well on the biggest stage.

Haha yeah and Talbot averaged giving up over 5 goals per game before he got replaced. I think that Fiala and Talbot trade are only looking better and better for us as time goes on... but fire the GM!!! 

[MNCountryLife]

16 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

So anyone still pining for Fiala or Talbot after the Kings went out in 5 games

That kind of drives the question.... Are there players that we have traded throughout the history of the Wild that you wished we had kept?

[Willy the poor boy]

22 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

So anyone still pining for Fiala or Talbot after the Kings went out in 5 games? 

Anyone? Bueller??

It really isn't that he traded them, it's how it all went down in each instance. But ya, 80 point players are hard to come by, I'd take FiFi...

[Justin Hein]

4 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

That kind of drives the question.... Are there players that we have traded throughout the history of the Wild that you wished we had kept?

Nino 

[B1GKappa97]

3 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

That kind of drives the question.... Are there players that we have traded throughout the history of the Wild that you wished we had kept?

Burns for sure. I hate every time he plays us 'cause I loved him and he seems to score on us every time 😠

Coyle would be a great fit on this team right now too.

I'm not mad that Nino got traded but that was a really bad one in terms of return 😞 

[MNCountryLife]

1 minute ago, B1GKappa97 said:

Burns for sure. I hate every time he plays us 'cause I loved him and he seems to score on us every time 😠

Coyle would be a great fit on this team right now too.

Agreed.  The Burns trade still hurts to this day.

Granlund was sure fun to watch.  But I'm not sure I regret that trade.  We got Fiala and then Faber in turn.  

[MNCountryLife]

5 minutes ago, Justin Hein said:

Nino 

and we got Rask.... ugh.. what a bad trade.

[Pewterschmidt]

8 minutes ago, Justin Hein said:

Nino 

Coyle would make a great bottom 6 C right now

[Pewterschmidt]

2 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Coyle would make a great bottom 6 C right now

What did we get for him?  Donato?  And Coyle is still earning a spot in very good BOS lineup while Donato might be selling insurance next season.  I think this was a Fenton-oscopy if I remember right.

[Protec]

33 minutes ago, Justin Hein said:

Nino 

Still playing well and has been valuable in Carolina, NSH, WPG. Rask, not so much. That was simply terrible. Fenton had one good trade for Fiala, but the others were bad. Signing Hartman, and Zuccarello worked out okay, but Zuccarello found new lease on crud when #97 arrived so only partial credit to Fenton with that. The Nino and Coyle trades were especially doofy. Hence the term Fentonisms. At that time MN was rapidly becoming an joke.

[mnfaninnc]

5 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

I spent a few minutes posting a "What the Wild have" post in the Lindstrom feed, only for this exact article to drop a little bit later...lol

And Lindstrom was on my radar shortly before Kalisha identified him. Sometimes, it just works that way! Apparently we are very progressive commenters!

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, B1GKappa97 said:

So anyone still pining for Fiala or Talbot after the Kings went out in 5 games? 

Anyone? Bueller??

I'd still like Fiala, but am thrilled with the compensation so far.

[mnfaninnc]

38 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Fenton-oscopy

I love this term. Perfectly describes losing Nino, Coyle, and Granlund. I wish we would have traded the old guard instead. These guys never really got a chance. 

But the trade that irks me the most was the deal that sent Tuch and Haula to Vegas in the expansion draft.

[mnfaninnc]

Justin, this is an outstanding article. Now, I've been a proponent of changing out Evason, but I have to give credit where credit is due. He worked some miracles getting a competitive team in the playoffs without having to scratch and crawl the last 2 weeks. What he was very good at was just what Justin has described, putting players together so the sum of the parts is greater than the pieces. 

However, Heinzy is a better Xs & Os guy, and likes to put the best players together and have them find their chemistry. Now, Heinzy also has this tendency, when there's nothing left to tinker with, the bottom of the lineup gets 5-6 minutes TOI. That's leaning heavily on the upper guys in the lineup. It can really burn some guys out late in the season.

Now, about those resignings. There were assumptions made when these guys were resigned. 

1. Evason was the coach, he could work with them
2. They were a good part of the culture and overperformed
3. They were part of the solution
4. The misfits somehow made a difference

When Heinzy came on board, things changed. Roles changed. The way he sees things and puts things together changed. I know that NMCs are there for next year, but after that, we do have some flexibility as far as M-NTCs. I would imagine that an NMC this season at the TDL might be movable, especially if Heinzy is sticking these guys in the bottom 6 regularly. 

2 of these guys can even be buried if need be. I'll be very curious to see what Heinzy comes up with. I'd also be interested in if some of the young guys who played here, like Dino, Ogie, Rossi, Faber, Chisholm are invited to development camp? It might be nice to see who they click with?

[Beast]

The roster holes have been clear for quite some time now.

Foligno proved it by doing everything he could to torpedo the Dallas series by acting like a fool and putting a target on his back for officials.

Gaudreau has never been anything other than a serviceable 4th liner and occasional shoot out specialist (which is irrelevant in the playoffs).

Hartman has never been a top 6 caliber forward/center, and even if he were, he can’t stay out of the penalty box.

Zuccarello has been a minus player in 3 of his 5 years with the Wild.  His positive years are propped up by playing with Kaprisov (who could make me a positive +\-).  He can’t win a face off, and hasn’t even taken one in 3 years.  He registers roughly one hit every 4 games.  He basically has as many giveaways as takeaways.  He starts in the offensive zone nearly 75% of the time.  He doesn’t shoot or score goals.  He’s an aged playmaker who seemingly needs to be paired with elite scorers in order to succeed, and is not a guy built for playoff hockey.  No team with Zuccarello in the top 6 is winning anything.

I don’t even have to say anything other than MOJO.

Our goalies stink.  Gus and Fluery were 42nd and 52nd in the NHL, respectively, in SV%, and 38th and 45th in GAA.  Frankly, I don’t care about watching the death throws of Fluery’s career.

Even with the emergence of Faber, the D core was exposed this year.  Spurgeon and Brodin, while effective, are showing some tread wear and spending more and more time on the injured list.  Declan Chisholm is a fine power play guy, but not the greatest defender and doesn’t play a ton at even strength, averaging about 1 shot per game all inclusive, which is less than Bogosian who is sort of just a guy.  I like Middleton, but he didn’t have a great year.  Goligoski is a corpse on skates at this point, and we resorted to playing Dakota Mermis in 47 games and Merrill in 65 games.

Theres plenty to like here as building blocks.  Obviously, Kaprisov and Faber are elite.  Ek is a well rounded workhorse.  Boldy and Rossi appear to be very good, young, top 6 forwards (although all anyone talks about is trading Rossi for some reason).  I was a little underwhelmed by Khusnutdinov, but there’s some hope there.  Ohgren looks like a solid complementary piece in the top 6.  But, that’s not nearly enough.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure if we can improve on anything.  The dead weight just got signed to multiple year NMCs for some inexplicable reason.  We’re stuck with a bad goalie tandem for at least one more year, and who knows what we’ll get out of Wall in the next couple of years (he’s not ready).  We have zero cap space to bring in anybody, and our top prospect got roped into another KHL deal after he changed his tune about assuredly coming to the US (another master class by Geurin).  Who knows when or if we’ll see him.  Everyone was bent out of shape about Fletcher trading picks….now we’re just using them to draft fourth liners in the first round with multiple top 25 prospects still on the board (Perrault, Musty) and multiple others in the top 100 (Bonk, Gulyayev).  “But we needed a big center.”  David Edstrom is a 6’3” center who is ranked 53 by hockey writers and was taken 32nd by the Knights.  Calum Ritchie, the 72nd ranked prospect and skilled center was also there.

We are still winning enough games to be in the middle of the first round and miss out on the elite prospects, drawing out the timeline.

This thing is an absolute mess right now, and I don’t see how it gets any better.  That could drive Kaprisov to want out, and then we are absolutely up shit creek.  This feels like a house of cards in its way down, and it’s going to take years to rebuild it.  All we have is this pipe dream that OHL/WHL guys like Heidt and Haight continue to develop and make it here within a few years as our prospect pool ranking regresses back to middle of the pack.

Not an easy pill to swallow for the homers right now, but it is what it is.

[Beast]

Nm

Edited May 3 by Beast

[Dean]

I totally agree with beast. Great post Imo! 
    I’m late to this ant game. Been watching some of his past interviews. This guy is amazing! 
    He said when he signed extension that he loved Minnesota because it’s small and he can work on his game. It’s home. He also said he’s always around to talk to kids with single mothers like him. In another interview he’s telling  cat to stop f ing fouling because if he’s not in foul trouble nobody can beat us.  A 22 yr old telling the old face of franchise what to do in a respectful but demanding way. Wow. What absolutely sold me on ant is an interview talking about nba players taking games off on back to backs . He said people might only be able to afford that one game and guys are sitting out. He’s not happy with that  He wants to put on a show for that person that might only get the one opportunity to see him. How unbelievably refreshing to hear . People like him are worth watching no matter the sport 

     Seeing what t wolves are doing team wise and then listening to Billy talk culture change is funny. They have a culture. We have lip service . Billy should go spend time with ant  and t wolves to figure out the secret sauce to culture is. Ant is contagious. His love and respect for the game. His devotion to the fans.  Then there is the winning culture  of the wild who can’t show up for the fans that spend all that money to see some semblance of caring or compete 

[Dean]

The start of year after the extensions I said this team was going to be a dumpster fire due to the guys being to comfortable. It was . Then  at the deadline,  when we didn’t do sh t , I said we’re watching a slow mo car crash.  Then kappy says he’s apprehensive. Which makes the latter comment a real. possibility . 
   My thought is if Billy doesn’t do something at  the draft we’re probably in trouble. I’m looking for him to make a trade to get something or clear cap space for free agency.  If he doesn’t then it probably means he’s doubling down on his guys plus a free agent. I’m sorry but there is no way in hell I can look at Billy as a real gm if he thinks Fred an Jo Jo are part of a winning team. That tells me he has bad people around him or utter cluelessness to what the nhl is now. Fred and Jo Jo mean we aren’t serious about anything.  I wish lapanta and Billy would quit forcing them on the fans. 

[Lern2spell]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

losing Nino, Coyle, and Granlund. I wish we would have traded the old guard instead. These guys never really got a chance. 

All of these guys were given multiple chances throughout the lineup to prove they had another level, and only became the player they are after the reality hit of being traded...Nino and Coyle especially. However, the returns will always be suspect. 

Burns was not going to re-sign with the Wild. 

[Dean]

I’ve been fascinated with Dallas s kids and how they got them to where they are so quick. I then look at our stable of prospects and how they will get developed.  It seems to me an I don’t understand why every young talent gets tied to Fred when coming into league. What does Fred teach them? It looks like Jamie benn is a good teacher but not Fred imo . So they get taught to skate in circles , avoid contact, don’t battle, dump puck and get off ice for 82 games. That gets you 5 yrs with clauses . Don’t worry you can be bad for 82 games and you won’t lose your job. Why? Because we have a pr department to make excuses and tell heart warming stories about you.  In seriousness these kids are valuable and honestly what benefit do they get from Fred. None in my opinion. I’d actually say it’s a disservice and hindrance to there development.  Part of developing kids is having good mentors . We’ve obviously identified Fred as that guy and he isn’t.