Article: Guerin Must Take A Page From the Golden Knights To Retain Kaprizov

[Kalisha Turnipseed]

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[Dean]

I like the thinking in this article 

[MacGyver]

Nice thoughts but lots of moving parts and pieces and ifs and maybes. I don't see Billy changing his spots so drastically in any regard. I think once Billy charts a path it's his path and the only path. Ideally I would think the Wild would like to get Kaprizov signed by the end of the summer but that's not going to happen. The longer it goes into next season the harder it will be, the bigger issue it will become. Won't be long it will be the never ending saga of is Kaprizov going to sign? If Billy thinks getting badgered about signing Fiala was bad that will be nothing if the Kaprizov contract goes into the pressure cooker. We may see a public explosion of a NHL general manager.

If  Kaprizov goes into his ufa season with no contract I would say he's gone. I remember watching a Russian interview of Kaprizov before he came here. The Russian interviewer asked him about all the money he was being offered. Kaprizov responded with (not verbatim) yes they offer this money but does not mean I have to take it. My agent does these things not me. Unless Kaprizov has changed his attitude towards contracts it's going to be interesting. 

Edited April 26 by MacGyver

[Dean]

To me it seems if Billy doesn’t build a playoff team by next year than the following year we will most likely be trading kappy.  He can’t have a Calgary/ Jonny G  happen. Let him walk for nothing.  It’s crazy to even be thinking about kappy leaving. It really makes you question what the hell billy has been doing for 5+ years .  He’s rebuilt the organizations prospects but done nothing to surround kappy.  Kappys whole time here has been a waste of talent. Taking a decade to rebuild with 17th overalls that are years away from being men who can compete at a playoff level .  It really makes me question a lot of the decisions he’s made these past years. Leaving so much draft capital on the table at trade deadline to give his friends jobs so they can have fun together. Meanwhile the best player this state has ever seen is unhappy  he’s surrounded by losers . 

[Protec]

There's a few problems with comparing to Vegas.

The first is the expansion draft and what Vegas was given to start. MN also had the retroactive penalizatuon that has been the biggest/worst buyout combo of the last decade pretty much. There's been some other bad ones but not doubled like MN. Add Fletcher draft blunders and the Wild are not even close to Vegas or other top teams in terms of what they can do to wheel and deal. Plus Vegas, FL, or NY has special attraction no doubt. Knowing Kaprizov's time is coming up, there is some time to deal with the possibilities. 

Just don't get Gaborik'd. If #97 walks away from MN the shame and hurt will be so bad, Guerin may never recover. Kirill seems like a salt of the earth guy and perhaps he'll be able to understand the Wild had to endure these steps to open a window of contention. At the same time, #97 has the potential to be anywhere he wants. MN needs him, not the other way around. Critical that MN gets the trajectory going back towards the playoffs and a series win ASAP. 

If I was #97, the NoJo situation would be nearly a deal breaker. How can anyone have confidence in a GM or coach who plays that guy at any cost. They've totally lost me on that one. Boldy too. This is his third year of "getting there" but when will it reach the level needed? Will it ever for him? 

I wanna see the buy in from the whole group like they did when they were at the top of the Central. Last season was another example of fragments and individuality. If Kaprizov is experiencing that no wonder he's mulling it over. He's already been a winner and knows the difference too well. He's probably going to FL or Tampa if MN delays too long. 

Guerin has gotta be hoping it begins to take shape this season. That is why a Rossi or Spurgeon sacrifice would be worth it IMO.

[Citizen Strife]

A Rossi sacrifice only works if there is a player of equal value coming back.  You're giving up on a guy who is one of the few that gave you the secondary scoring (and a young guy) to take on someone you don't know.  Necas would be an option, but I don't like giving up on a guy without knowing what the full picture is.  You can't bank on "hype" when Yurov, Heidt, etc don't have the actual NHL proof of chemistry.  Maybe there's a risk of dropping in quality (the Gus problem), but EVERYONE has that slump potential.  Isn't stopping people from gifting Faber $9-10M, but Rossi nets a 2nd/3rd C (and Top C injury call), 20 goals, and just "nah.  This other guy in another country or this super young guy is just better, sorry."

I want to pay someone who actually proved it WITH the Wild first.

[Citizen Strife]

Note: not saying Faber isn't worth the money or praise.  Just saying tomorrow, you can't predict if he'll be a same, better, or worse player.  Everyone is responsible for playing up to their standard and Rossi has earned some rope that seems ridiculous that x player elsewhere in a different league is just "a better" option without seeing Rossi through next year.

That is unless you can get a Necas, Cozens, new Top 10 pick dart, etc from Rossi and it's just there for the taking.  I don't know if that's out there.  Do the due diligence, but Rossi is one of the least of my problems right now.

[Protec]

That's quite reasonable.

I would use NoJo as an example of somebody who "proved it" with the Wild at the end of the season he played with Boldy. So there's some argument to be made that you might have to take a big risk.

I mean currently it looks like the NHL has it rigged for Vegas so Kirill probably likes the idea of Florida or the desert oasis. Rossi wouldn't have to be the guy to go necessarily but look at the obvious truths. He's a smaller player in a big man division. Hockey isn't all skill and scoring to be ultimate winners.

The Wild have just a few potential assets. Both are little guys who command good salaries. The Wild have just enough money to sign like one 5-6M type guy or a couple 2-3M guys. That's it as of now. Spurgeon money, Gus money, or the potential to package Rossi with something to pick up Necas or a similar player who makes the team better right away is why MN has already apparently given it consideration.

Here's the UFA list and a bunch of upgrades I highlighted. Skipped the ages but there's nearly 50 guys who the Wild could upgrade with easily. I think it's time to consider some big moves to retool. The Wild can't afford much but it's time they figure out how to rearrange their makeup to be more competitive and tougher along with getting Boldy or Gus to work harder this off season and make the team better with the full buy in. Otherwise trade those guys too.(Keep Knudi, Shaw, and Rossi.) If the Wild are gonna win, you better weed out the guys who are soft and can't step up to win big games. MN absolutely sucked in every big Central division game this year. I don't care they beat Boston or FL in what ended up being meaningless regular season. I just don't care. MN has been choking them away against Dallas, Colorado, Nashville, Winnipeg, St.Louis, and Chicago their whole existence. This year was like the worst ever.

Kirill is 100% right to look around and say, "I'm gonna wait and see what happens." That doesn't even factor into the equation that Kirill has been beat up and targeted in MN with a less than impressive response from his teammates if you asked me.

It seems like MN could get a UFA or two. If they traded guys out for futures, or just one player, they could add higher quality UFAs & upgrades to improve now. (* = Needs a tendy) Could any teams want Gus? MN could backfill with a backup-type.

[Protec]

17 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Note: not saying Faber isn't worth the money or praise.  Just saying tomorrow, you can't predict if he'll be a same, better, or worse player.  Everyone is responsible for playing up to their standard and Rossi has earned some rope that seems ridiculous that x player elsewhere in a different league is just "a better" option without seeing Rossi through next year.

That is unless you can get a Necas, Cozens, new Top 10 pick dart, etc from Rossi and it's just there for the taking.  I don't know if that's out there.  Do the due diligence, but Rossi is one of the least of my problems right now.

I think the Wild want more of a Boone Jenner type guy. Complainers will say, "Ope that's too old, Rossi should get a better return!" The point is that the Wild need to be better and harder/tougher now. Rossi is a skill guy. Hard-worker, yeah of course. Has NHL future scoring/skill guy career, yes. He's not a Marchesseault speed-wise, or a Tofolli scoring and experience-wise. Now those guys are both UFAs but if you keep Rossi and bank on him making you a winner, it means passing on a chance to get proven Cup winners. The Wild aren't empty on prospects anymore so getting players like that or Guentzal, Skjei, Tarasenko, are at least equal to Rossi even if they're older and more expensive.

The Wild got man-handled in the Central. They absolutely need to look at all the guys and not get attached to who they drafted or who deserves to play in the NHL cause they got nominated for Masterson. "It's about eff'n winning" To me that means, Spurge is gone, Rossi gone, Merrill gone, Nojo GONE!!! Boldy on golf-probation and the Happy Gilmore batting cage method for any other softies that remain.

[MacGyver]

I'm not sure how the NHL has it rigged for Vegas. Everyone has Vegas envy. They weren't handed the players they got in the expansion draft. Some teams made errors in who they exposed and who they protected and Vegas took advantage. I still cringe when I think of how the Wild exposed Tuch to protect Dumba. Tuch was exactly the kind of player the wild needed then and still needs now. Dumba was already starting his decline. Can't hang that one on Billy. 

Vegas is the honey badgers when it comes to rolling the dice like they did with Eichel. The Wild were quite interested as well but didn't have the guts to pull the trigger. And it's probably just as well. I doubt Eichel would be the same player here as he is now with Vegas. 

 

Edited April 27 by MacGyver

[Citizen Strife]

Boone Jenner (outside of size) hardly seems like a guy I'd want as a 2nd line center.  40-45 pts, eight years older, and not playing all the games each year doesn't scream worth giving up a 22-23 year old guy with a year or two away from improving or not from a 40 pt guy into a 60-70 pt guy.  Rossi played every game last year, went from an NHL crutch to a viable NHL center in one offseason, and that's even with his small size and lack of speed.  If all Rossi is forever is a 40-45 pt guy, sure.  But that's more his problem than the Wild just dumping him without knowing that's what he's gonna be.

The Wild need more goal scoring, not bottom 6 centers.  If the Wild need size, get people around Rossi first and see if that helps.  

Edited April 27 by Citizen Strife

[Pewterschmidt]

15 hours ago, MacGyver said:

If Billy thinks getting badgered about signing Fiala was bad that will be nothing if the Kaprizov contract goes into the pressure cooker.

Is it to simple to say BG’s future as GM of wild hinges on 97 resigning?   Even if worst case scenario of prospects underwhelming over next few years, if 97 resigns Guerin gets another 5 yr extension?

[Protec]

I'm just saying the NHL is full of shit sometimes. Vegas or Tampa using LTIR, refs, the draft lottery, penalizing MN retroactive, it's a joke sometimes. 

I've been saying for many years OCL has got to get his bribe-game in order. He's not even close to CHI, NY, or Vegas levels. 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

 

A Rossi sacrifice only works if there is a player of equal value coming back.

 

Maybe this explains why Wild are considering trading Rossi.  It’s 100% to get 97 a legit line 1 linemate to keep him happy and encouraged so he’ll resign   This actually makes some sense to me.  If the return is David Perron it’s a fail, but if return is a Jesper bratt type (young, offensively gifted) who comes in and has chemistry with 97 (impossible not to have chemistry with 97 if player can keep up with 97) i can get on board for Rossi trade

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Is it to simple to say BG’s future as GM of wild hinges on 97 resigning?   Even if worst case scenario of prospects underwhelming over next few years, if 97 resigns Guerin gets another 5 yr extension?

If Kaprizov blows town that would set this team back indefinitly. Part of the fallout would certainly have to be Billy. I think Leipold is already giving Billy the look of disapproval for not making the playoffs this year. I have always felt that part of the buyout deal was Billy had to promise Leipold they would still make the playoffs the next few years after the buyouts. No guarantees once they were in however. 

Also consider the other reverberations Kaprizov leaving would bring. How do you then attract other talent to come here? Players are having increasing control over where they go and when as we are experiencing ourselves. What makes Minnesota a destination franchise? The winning culture? Minnesota's exorbitant tax rate? The weather? Kaprizov not only controls his own future and legacy but he controls this franchises long term future and legacy. I wonder which one is his priority? 

[Protec]

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

Boone Jenner (outside of size) hardly seems like a guy I'd want as a 2nd line center.  40-45 pts, eight years older, and not playing all the games each year doesn't scream worth giving up a 22-23 year old guy with a year or two away from improving or not from a 40 pt guy into a 60-70 pt guy.  Rossi played every game last year, and that's even with his small size and lack of speed.  If all Rossi is forever is a 40-45 pt guy, sure.  But that's more his problem than the Wild just dumping him without knowing that's what he's gonna be.

The Wild need more goal scoring, not bottom 6 centers.  If the Wild need size, get people around Rossi first and see if that helps.  

I didn't mean Jenner has to be the guy. Zach Hyman is the same type of player although way more expensive and unavailable but the point is the same. Tuch, or previously Greenway. Big guys can muscle or reach to the net when needed. Big guys can endure the punishment of the playoffs. Big guys can intimidate and deter attacks on your Russian superstar. 

The Wild also lack Big game and playoffs guys. They got #97, that's it. Faber has shown some. Fiala, when he was here was a gamebreaker in the regular season. Still waiting to see him do it in the playoffs but he is dynamic. Rossi is skilled and has shown good things but he's not Eric Lindros or Auston Matthwes. 

Guerin made a big mistake on Foligno and NoJo. Spurgeon getting hurt was a big curveball. Put those three players together with their cost and the 14M in penalties and the Wild are getting a measly 50pts last season for ~ 25M. Other teams with that money allocated to a mixture of forwards could afford Nylander and Kucherov or MacKinnon, Rantaannen, and Lehkhonen.

The Wild's timing and proof to Kaprizov is the greatest challenge yet. It's not gonna happen by simply hoping the current roster gets way better over the Summer turning into Vegas or FL where they just know they can win and do. 

MN's defense is too soft, slow, or small. Central losses prove that. 

MN's forward group lacks size, speed, and power, not skill or scoring. 

Goaltending isn't the best but not horrible, it's the roster in total that lacks depth and balance. 

[mnfaninnc]

I love watching Martin Necas play. He would be an upgrade, he's got size, speed, reach, but is not really physical. He also doesn't get hit that often because nobody can catch him.

But, if we're talking about changing things up, and Kalisha is trying to upgrade a lot of pieces, I think the key here is Brady Tkachuk. Trading for this guy, even overpaying for this guy, will change the direction of the franchise for good. If there was a scenario for us to grab Tkachuk and draft Lindstrom, that would be so huge.

I'm sure all we'll hear is that Tkachuk is simply not available. But, if there's a chance he is able to get pried loose, we've got to take that chance. And, Ottawa was once again near the bottom of the league, has a first round pick penalty coming up soon, and NEEDS to get back to the playoffs. If we gave them quantity of players, they'd have to look at it. I would have to say Rossi would be one of those players.

With Brady's brother, it took almost a full season for FL to recalibrate, but once they did, look at their playoff run. Tkachuk is built for the playoffs. Even though he gives everything he's got in the regular season, there is still another gear he's got for the playoffs. And if Johasson didn't want to compete some night, he'd probably end up stuffed in a locker after the game.

We have Foligno as an intense big guy. But Tkachuk brings a whole different level and can score. 

Getting back to the article, one thing I don't hear Kalisha mentioning is the use of LTIR. This has been Vegas' calling card and why they are so deep in the playoffs. Currently, we have 1 guy who could qualify for this in Spurgeon. We used his LTIR to bring up players. We could have used Foligno and Spurgeon's LTIR to fill NHL roles if we'd shut down Foligno earlier to get the surgery. Heck, Stone, essentially, is a playoff guy. He's their captain but only plays a few games/season + playoffs. Do we have money to do such a thing? That's what TBL did with Kucherov one year. That's what Chicago did with Hossa. Yet there's no mention of using this in the article.

Of course, if we did, we'd probably figure out a way to get penalized for it much like the cap penalties for Suter/Parise. And, yes, of course, the rule would be applied retroactively to us.

[greg]

Lots of great comments regarding the Wilds problems.  My frustration lies in the fact the NHL didn't have to penalize the Wild like they did.    I love watching the NHL and the Wild.  But outside of hard-core hockey fans thr league looked at like a joke.  I love watching the playoffs but the officiating also conti ues to be a joke.  Plus it appears they are content to bring back the goonery/thug style of play of the 1970s. Hard hitting and checking is fine but yhe sticks, fighting, cheap shots is so unnecessary.  The heavy hitters the Wild have employed recently have done very little to protect Kirill and the other smaller players.  All they seem good at I'd taking up space on the ice and collecting needed penalties.  The fact that the NHL condones teams to manipulate their payroll by putting players on long term injury lists and then letting them be added to the playoff roster with out any salary cap penalties is further proof that they pick punishing teams a targeted game.  Why is teams like Vegas, Tampa and others allowed to run up payroll and others can't.  I still love hockey but the NHL seems determined to  ruin it.

 

Rd

[FredJohnson]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:12 AM, Pewterschmidt said:

Is it to simple to say BG’s future as GM of wild hinges on 97 resigning?   Even if worst case scenario of prospects underwhelming over next few years, if 97 resigns Guerin gets another 5 yr extension?

For starters...GMBG's employment hinges on retaining KK97. After that, anything else can happen.

[Lovehockey]

Too bad Florida is playing against TB. Whoever loose will be thinking about changes and I have a feeling the Florida decision in general will be very attractive for Kaprisov 

[Protec]

1 hour ago, Lovehockey said:

Too bad Florida is playing against TB. Whoever loose will be thinking about changes and I have a feeling the Florida decision in general will be very attractive for Kaprisov 

No State income tax. Sunny and nice all the time. Winning hockey, but also specifically playing on a team with guys like Tkachuck, Verhaege, and Barkov. Less travel distance.

MN's biggest problem is they have no Justin Williams, no Mark Messier, no collective group of underappreciated stepper-uppers for big games. None other than #97 or #7. All the Boldys, Folignos, Fleurys, and Eks MN has under contract are not showing they can do it in the biggest moments. Maybe one day, but who's it gonna be for MN???

There's something obvious missing in MN and it's true toughness and fortitude. I've been saying for a long time, "when the going get's tough." MN has pretty much forever except the Vegas series a few years ago rolled-over and shrinked away with their tail between legs. Come on Bill Guerin, shit or get off the pot. Kirill isn't gonna hang around in MN hoping little Euros and lazy neck-beards are gonna become Marty St.Louis and Tomas Holmstrom or Patric Hornqvuist. It's never gonna happen. The Wild are little and soft and only a tiny bit better than Arizona, and neck and neck with the Philadelphia Flyers somehow after getting Chuck Fletcher'd.(Standings-wise.)

Winning solves everything and Kirill probably wasn't thinking about it too too much when they were a playoff team. If they have another shit year with the same roster composition and only minor changes with NoJo getting 2nd line minutes again. I think #97 is gonna be convinced to go elsewhere.