Article: How Will the Wild Get More Secondary Scoring Next Year?

[Protec]

9 hours ago, Wanderinginmn said:

What is with this Rossi trade crap?

You really want to trade a 22 year old kid who just tallied 41 points in his rookie year?  A possible Calder finalist, and you want him to go because why?  He isn't 7' tall and can't skate the rink in 2.7 seconds and "TAKE THE BODY" of the biggest bruisers in your imagination?  Seriously? 

Hrmm, let's look back a few years, ah, yes, Eriksson Ek played 75 games in 17-18 and scored, oh, 16 points.  I guess we should have traded him, he's obviously worthless. 18-19 14pts, 19-20 29pts, wait it took him 6 years to develop?!?!?!?!  BLASPHEMY!!!  He should have been gone years ago.

I get that Rossi is not the natural superstar talent of KK97 and Faber, but that is not the point.  He is solid and obviously developing into a damn good player through hard work that hits notes the Wild have been missing (aka secondary scoring.)  Fucking quit it with the trade tripe.

On another note, why isn't there an article about Faber playing with fractured ribs?  https://www.startribune.com/wild-season-brock-faber-fractured-ribs-filip-gustavsson-jesper-wallestedt/600360321/  I seriously cannot imagine the pain that kid played through this year.  Damn.

 

-I.

 

 

22 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Yeah I don't get the dishonorable discharge of Rossi. A young center who is developing quickly who actually wants to be here. He is on record stating he owes his life to the Wild medical staff. Some people might recognize this as a motivation, a drive, a desire to succeed and he is proving he has all that.  But for some reason we want to run him out of town in exchange for whatever we can get and start over again. The crazy thing is I can see it happening because I don't think he is one of Billy's boys. He is not old enough and has no Penguin ties and he has never given another  teammate or opposing player a double handed chop on the back of the neck with his stick, in other words no grit. So yeah he probably needs to go. I mean the kid couldn't grow a neck beard if he wanted to he just doesn't fit in. Rossi has proven much more than the Knut Russian but we love the Knut right? Why exactly? I haven't seen much from him. He's small and fast in a league of big and fast. But if a trade rumor existed about him this board would melt down.

 

Nice arguments here gentleman!

I disliked Rossi early on because I thought he had been obligated to get experimental medical injection passports or had been attacked by man-made genetically modified flu. Either way, peer-reviewed data on those subjects was conclusively negative overall. We can be honest about this now, I thought Rossi's heart was a huge concern. There have been promising efforts to expel spike-proteins with theraputics, so thankfully for Rossi he's healthy and will stay away from Big-Farma deceptions as we all should.(Euro soccer players dropping like flies.) Combine that with just one great OHL season and timid early showing, I wasn't convinced.

Now that he's healthy and has had a great rookie season, we've seen some really positive stuff. At the same time Rossi is a small, offensive guy. Like a Granlund or PMB, or less lizardly Zuccarello. That's where I think some Wild fans will say, "I've seen this one before"...

That's what gets the wheels turning and debate fired-up. MN finally has some assets and has had time to evaluate a "top prospect group" according to NHL pundits.

At this point there are potentially a ton of decisions to make for the team's true window to win and contend. NoJo, Fred, Foligno, Merrill, Zuccarello might catch the early part of it, but the bigger picture view includes more of the younger core.

In that context, what does GMBG do with all the young players that will need to plug into the group and at what costs? By now MN has seen a few years from a bunch of nice draft selections and the cream has risen to the top for the most part. To the point you guys made, Knudi has now had some serious NA hockey to gauge his future too. Would I be super upset if he was traded? Not as long as the Wild get a good return.

Summary of the Rossi argument for me is that he's a nice offensive player, but not a dominant complete player. The suggestions of a trade could include a bunch of young players, but Rossi would likely have the greatest value. Therefore, Rossi or Knudi & Gus would allow the Wild to get an important player back and manage their cap future. It is not something to do if you're desperate for offense, but MN has been okay scoring. There's other areas to improve so now that the Wild see things shaping up, what happens with their youth movement has to be determined. Rossi, or Knudi having good showings puts them in a category of valuable young players you need either way to improve the roster. I'm less rigid about how that happens. 

[Dango]

I'm curious as to where Faber got his cracked ribs and if it was from a dirty hit or accidental etc  i see some players are messing with Kaprizov  and this is why i think Foligno is an important piece .   No i don't think he's needed to fight the staged fights of the past but rather police the after the whistle  stuff .

[Pewterschmidt]

Yardbarker has an article where Russo says a Rossi trade is very real possibility.  Question: if Guerin trades Rossi is that an admission of failure for a 9th overall pick?

i guess it’ll depend on what we get back.  People say faber for Fiala by itself is a win for Wild, so trading Rossi could lead to a net positive

 but it’s fair to point to a Rossi trade after a 21 goal rookie season and ask who fkd up here?  Did scouts think he was going to grow taller?  21 goals proves he’s got nhl skills.  What doesn’t he do well enough that makes you want to deal him?  
#trollingbrackett

[MacGyver]

Getting Faber in return for Fiala was a pure gold luck of the draw. Nobody knew including Guerin he was going to have the year he did. No way would the Kings have dealt him had they known.  

Rossi was an intentional pick. So I think trading him now after the growth he's shown this year would be bad optics for Guerin. An admission of failure if you will and a bit of a slap in the face to Rossi.  Guerin has been more lucky than good in his dealings so this kind of a deal could really leave a mark for Guerin. Good or bad.  I have no idea how Rossi is viewed by his teammates. If he is a locker room favorite you run the risk of further disrupting the locker room and having players wondering what the hell is going on. Given what he has been through  I would guess he is at least respected by his teammates much like Shaw is. That kind of drive, determination and mental toughness is hard to come by. It would be one thing if he wasn't producing but this kid had a breakout year and this could be just the start. He's finally becoming what they wanted and what they thought they were getting. Trading him now is like saying we don't know what we really want. 

This could turn into sellers regret rather easily. 

[Will D. Ness]

53 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

What doesn’t he do well enough that makes you want to deal him?  
#trollingbrackett

Maybe it was that fight. 

[mnfaninnc]

20 hours ago, Need4speed99 said:

Love those lines! I think you have the best idea of any line combos I've seen. The only changes I could see happening is zucc moving down and ogie going up if he can outperform and really grow his game. 

The reason I put Ogie down with Dino is because I noticed some unordinary chemistry between the 2 players. They seem to work together really well. Honestly, that was the only reason.

[mnfaninnc]

I'm seeing one camp here being convinced that Rossi is too small and, therefore, cannot be an effective #2C, let alone a #1. 

There's another camp that says he's about to be a superstar, look at his rookie year and we've been begging for productive Cs for years.

Rossi is short, not small. He's got room for more growth too. If he can put in the same work and gain similar muscle weight, the kid is going to be very big for his height. And, I fully respect that Rossi, so far, is the only prospect to get the "bulk up" message. I think he's a winner. And I think he can be the top 6 center we've been looking for. That is not the question.

What's at stake here isn't whether or not Rossi will be good. It's can Rossi bring us something within the organization which we A) Currently don't have and B) makes the team better. The 2nd part to what's at stake is do we have the internal talent to fill Rossi's role?

When you look at Heidt, Haight, Yurov, Dino, these guys could also be very good centers. We haven't even discussed Stramel and Kumpulainen in here. If the projection is that they will be, and are ready, then what else do we need?

I see 2 positions where we are lacking, both on the big club and in the organization: Big shot RHS wing, Big shot, large body RHS defenseman. That defenseman could have the potential to be in Ovechkin's office on the PP, but we also need a guy like that on the wing.

Some might say Hartman potted 20, and 34 a couple of seasons ago. Hartman is not that guy, he's got a decent shot but shanks and whiffs to much. When he catches it, he's good. It would be nice if the guy was a bit unproven, thus a bit of a cap value, but we need that RHS threat.

Jiricek could be the answer. I'm not sure what his issue in CBJ was, and that organization is going through huge turnover right now. It's said that he has a canon of a shot. At 6'4" 207 he's got room to grow, and probably some skating to perfect. That would be one guy we simply don't have. 

I'd rather keep Rossi, I do think he'll put in the hard work again this offseason, and will be a good player for us. I don't think he's too small to play against the Central division, especially if he puts on more muscle. I would like to see him be a bit more physical, we've seen that side from Dino already. But, if he can control the puck and not get bumped off of it, and get to the net he should be good. One thing I noticed about him this year was suddenness. He had explosion he didn't have the previous year. Extra muscle will add to that.

However, if it takes Rossi to get what we need and don't have in the organization, I'd be alright with that too. Sometimes you have to give up something good to get something you need that's better. If those guys coming up are ready, we may be able to get similar production from them while filling a need in another area that we simply don't have. 

This is not an indictment on Rossi not being good enough, this is a reality of simply not having every piece that's needed. Who knows why? Maybe Brackett missed a guy he should have taken? Maybe the draft just never fell the way it needed to to get that piece? Maybe someone else has a glut at a position and has needs we can fill from a glut? 

Rossi being traded isn't about trading him out, it's about trading a piece in that we need. I don't think anybody's suggesting we're unhappy with Rossi so let's just get rid of him for "best offer." 

Now, while we're on this subject, it seems to me that our "glut" areas are in LHS puck moving defenders, and LHS left wingers. I would prefer we traded from there.

[Protec]

7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Getting Faber in return for Fiala was a pure gold luck of the draw. Nobody knew including Guerin he was going to have the year he did. No way would the Kings have dealt him had they known.  

Rossi was an intentional pick. So I think trading him now after the growth he's shown this year would be bad optics for Guerin. An admission of failure if you will and a bit of a slap in the face to Rossi.  Guerin has been more lucky than good in his dealings so this kind of a deal could really leave a mark for Guerin. Good or bad.  I have no idea how Rossi is viewed by his teammates. If he is a locker room favorite you run the risk of further disrupting the locker room and having players wondering what the hell is going on. Given what he has been through  I would guess he is at least respected by his teammates much like Shaw is. That kind of drive, determination and mental toughness is hard to come by. It would be one thing if he wasn't producing but this kid had a breakout year and this could be just the start. He's finally becoming what they wanted and what they thought they were getting. Trading him now is like saying we don't know what we really want. 

This could turn into sellers regret rather easily. 

There's always the argument for drafting the best available player. When Rossi fell to 9th, many of us have theorized MN picked him due to being the best available in that moment. I thought the Wild were looking at Lundell, Mercer, or Jarvis since they also had great potential but were projected to be available at 9th.

Looking back, since those players have done well, the Wild could have potentially stuck to that type of plan successfully. By getting Rossi, they ended up with a nice player and good character but the agenda in 2020 was one that sorta didn't include Ek as 1C yet. There were moving parts now hindsight make the pick both good and bad. The player needed now is more of an Ek or Lundell type guy. If you took Lundell then, it would have been need more than best available.

The draft is a weird spot because you've got what you think will happen and what does happen. With best available you're kinda gambling that your guy isn't the ideal fit down the line or go for need and your gamble shifts to hope the selection works out ideally.

That's my take, and why a trade isn't necessarily any type of statement or indictment of anyone. Summer of 2024 is a few years down the road from when Rossi was selected and a lot has changed or happened since then. Just how it goes. I would rather not get too attached or begin to predetermine things because again, we've seen MN GM's do that to a fault. Guerin has rewarded and kinda anointed some guys. Perhaps he's feeling/seeing/sensing some of those consequences and is gonna be more careful not to get trapped or bogged down in similar snags. In some ways, keeping Rossi for the optics, guts he's shown, pressure, or stoic sense of duty is exactly the kinds of situations that led to Goligoski, Fred, NoJo, Foligno, Fleury, Zuccy, and Hartman which weren't all bad, but there's some heartburn there. No shame in recognizing and admitting not every deal or decision is great. 

 

[PNW Wild]

16 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Nothing against Rossi as he is very talented but in the division and conference we play in we need bigger centers that are fast.

Kind of miffs me that for so long Wild fans have been mourning not keeping the pick that TB used on Brayden Point, then complain because we have a center that is 1" shorter and a few pounds heavier and is developing into a solid option down the middle. And Point's age 21 season looks similar to Rossi's 22. He isn't that far off. And Brad Marchand is the same height but a few #'s less, and he wasn't even in the NHL at Rossi's age.

I am not trying to say that Rossi is the next Brayden Point. But, he is on a solid trajectory and has the potential to fill a role we have needed for this franchise's entire history. We need to chill and not exaggerate his small stature. The guy goes to net, unlike many players that are bigger.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

I see many saying trade Rossi based on what we have in the pipeline coming up. Let's not slot in players until we see them at this level. We would do ourselves a big disservice trading Rossi and expect, say, Heidt to explode. Nothing is to say that Heidt or any other prospect isn't a bust. We have a known quantity in Rossi right now, let's not take that for granted bearing in mind the years and years we had with terrible depth at center. 

Bottom line is projections aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Let's not write off a 20 goal rookie and send him down river on the projections of what we may have coming up. I would rather see our unproven prospects traded than Rossi, the guy has come leaps and bounds in a year and clearly has the drive and dedication to have a long career. That is not something to be undervalued. Jiricek might be bigger, he does not have the character or drive of Rossi from everything I have seen. He has also yet to prove anything in this league.

[Citizen Strife]

That's the big thing.  Rossi has proven to hit 20 goals.  Hartman has, but he's older, prone to penalties, and more of a jack of all trades than a pure scorer/playmaker.  Rossi solves issues that the Wild didn't have before.  Ek at #1 is not a bad thing.  But I would trust Rossi at #2 (and floating to #1) more than Hartman at this stage.  

If the Wild have a surplus of potential options, but none of those guys have proven Rossi expendable, then don't be foolish yet.  Yurov might do great in Russia, but he hasn't scored an NHL goal or played an NHL shift.  What I saw from Khusnutdinov is he and Ohgren should be a fine 3rd/4th line for now, but I don't want to push Khusnutdinov to Rossi's old post unless giving Rossi means the Wild get back a Top 4 D or high quality scorer in return.  

Edited April 22 by Citizen Strife

[Pewterschmidt]

51 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Bottom line is projections aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Let's not write off a 20 goal rookie and send him down river on the projections of what we may have coming up. I would rather see our unproven prospects traded than Rossi

100% agree.  And I believe Guerin feels same way.  I'd be surprised to see Rossi traded.  That said, if he is traded that opens Guerin up for new unforced error accusations. 

This assumes that Wild org aren't privy to detrimental Rossi health info that fanbase doesn't know about.  But if trading Rossi is simply about getting bigger, than a trade opens Guerin up for more second guessing criticism. 

[Willy the poor boy]

On 4/21/2024 at 8:56 AM, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Both Rossi and Spurg would be good in the East but the west just needs a different type of player and now is the time to start making big changes so people don’t get comfortable and earn a spot.

For the more thrifty world wide web researchers in the Wilderness Do you have any info on Eastern Conference Vs. Western Conference The last year or 2 or 3? It could interesting to see what the results actually are/were. I tried to no avail, but I'm just a lowly peasant in computerland.

[mnhockeyfan03]

Why is everyone so attached to Rossi and Spurg?  Please watch the top teams in the playoffs right now in the west.  Neither one of those guys are going to help us playing those teams.  The goal is to win a Stanley cup!  Well start building for it and it takes hard decisions from the GM.  The GM should not be able to be close friends with the players as there should be no emotional attachments. This is a business and the goal is to win the cup.  Rossi, Spurg, Freddie, Gus, Middleton, any of the 4th liners this year are not going to get us there.  Start making changes now to get us there.  Enough with the friend zone.  Get some competition and some f you in this lineup.  If you aren’t going to compete you aren’t going to play weather a veteran or rookie.  Get after it.  It comes from the top to set that tone!

[Protec]

11 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Why is everyone so attached to Rossi and Spurg?  Please watch the top teams in the playoffs right now in the west.  Neither one of those guys are going to help us playing those teams.  The goal is to win a Stanley cup!  Well start building for it and it takes hard decisions from the GM.  The GM should not be able to be close friends with the players as there should be no emotional attachments. This is a business and the goal is to win the cup.  Rossi, Spurg, Freddie, Gus, Middleton, any of the 4th liners this year are not going to get us there.  Start making changes now to get us there.  Enough with the friend zone.  Get some competition and some f you in this lineup.  If you aren’t going to compete you aren’t going to play weather a veteran or rookie.  Get after it.  It comes from the top to set that tone!

Yeah, I agree with this cause when Guerin showed up there was a new sense of uncertainty for everyone and it brought out a natural competition to prove value from individuals. That has fallen off it seems. I'd like to see Guerin buyout NoJo cause it would be a two-birds with one stone statement. Admission he was wrong and show that veteran apathy is unacceptable. 

Somehow I don't think that will happen cause NoJo got 14mins TOI all the way to the final game. 

Your overall point is strong. It's the same pattern Wild fans got into before. Players endear themselves and then it becomes unthinkable to trade them. Meanwhile Vegas moves everyone always. During Fletcher MN put all their eggs in the Coyle, Zucker, Granny basket for years with veterans. Didn't work out. I think the Wild have a good core. Guerin has been creative picking up inexpensive guys. I'm a fan of the UFA options this year. 

My biggest question is why do the Wild value #90 Johansson so much? 

The Wild need guys who are hungry and show up to play every night for starters. NoJo is not one of them. Beyond that is team toughness. I'm not gonna define what I think that is specifically but Faber playing with broken ribs qualifies in a way. Atta bois, but the Wild need that quality to impose on teams or use to battle back and get even. Why have MN star players been getting mugged for over a decade??? 

Nothing against Rossi or Spurgeon as high quality players. That's what makes them valuable to be traded.(possibly) They're just never gonna be big, mean, scary players. They play specific roles. They require strong AAV numbers. 

It's pretty tempting to imagine what MN could do with the returns from trading these players. You could replace the 20 goals and the Wild survived without Spurgeon. Maybe GMBG just holds off and doesn't do anything much this Summer? Then 20 games into next season maybe there's a move. Right now, it's probably most important to get Faber and Kaprizov AAV allocated.

Edited April 23 by Protec

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Jiricek might be bigger, he does not have the character or drive of Rossi from everything I have seen. He has also yet to prove anything in this league.

TGAL, what do we really know about Jiricek's character? That he complained about being told to get a place in Columbus and then got sent down? Now he wants out?

I'm not sure that is a hit in his character or thinking he's been betrayed. At any rate, the same thing we did with Rossi (send him down to the A for a year) was done to Jiricek. However, the only time I heard "get a place up here," was with Shaw when he came up and performed well for a few weeks. I don't know that Rossi was given the same promise. It appears that Jiricek was.

If you've got more information, please share.

[mnfaninnc]

18 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

This assumes that Wild org aren't privy to detrimental Rossi health info that fanbase doesn't know about. 

If they do trade him because of this, I'd expect that the new team would find this in a physical and void the deal.

[mnfaninnc]

56 minutes ago, Protec said:

My biggest question is why do the Wild value #90 Johansson so much? 

I don't think I'd buy him out. I do think that Johansson is a perfect candidate for prospects to jump him on the ladder, though. My thought is simple, if/when he gets beaten out, that is when you trade him/or simply put him on waivers to head to Iowa. Either way, you are preserving a small amount of cap room for the following 2 years. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

36 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

TGAL, what do we really know about Jiricek's character? That he complained about being told to get a place in Columbus and then got sent down? Now he wants out?

I'm not sure that is a hit in his character or thinking he's been betrayed. At any rate, the same thing we did with Rossi (send him down to the A for a year) was done to Jiricek. However, the only time I heard "get a place up here," was with Shaw when he came up and performed well for a few weeks. I don't know that Rossi was given the same promise. It appears that Jiricek was.

If you've got more information, please share.

He was told that for a week then his results left things to be desired. The guy didn't buy a place although he was looking. 

He had a very tough 23-24 season full of defensive mistakes and yet when the coaches pointed it out he publicly argued with them instead of taking the comments to heart and working on his shortcomings. 

“They told me the last game was not good enough for me,” Jiricek said. “I told them I don’t think so, but that’s your opinion. I was out of the lineup after that. A whole month now, it feels like I haven’t played.”

“He does a lot of good things with the puck, but he’s got to learn to defend better. He needs to learn that on an NHL level, but if he’s not playing here, he needs to play in the American League because he needs to play.” (Kekäläinen)

Compare this to Rossi's attitude getting sent down. Rossi's reaction was to work his a$$ off to get where he wanted to be not just to exclaim that he deserved to be in the league. I can understand some frustration with his deployment but it is a very contrasting attitude to the one Rossi took. 

To me Rossi's work ethic and reaction to advice from coaches was exactly what you want to see from a young player. There is zero entitlement but a whole lot of drive in that kid. 

Rossi also surpassed Jiricek in every way statistically in his first 40 games.

Rossi- first 47- 9G-8A-17pts -3

Jiricek- first 47- 1G-9A-10pts -8 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

“They told me the last game was not good enough for me,” Jiricek said. “I told them I don’t think so, but that’s your opinion.

For the record, I've downgraded my confidence in Guerin to 'trust but verify'

If he trades Rossi (9th overall) for a malcontent Cam Barker 2.0 I will downgrade once more.  Next level down is 'room for improvement'.  Level below that is 'no confidence'.

Your move Guerin.  No more tough guy posturing or front office drama.  Time to deliver results thru net positive trades and lightning-in-a-bottle prospects.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

2 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

“They told me the last game was not good enough for me,” Jiricek said. “I told them I don’t think so, but that’s your opinion. I was out of the lineup after that. A whole month now, it feels like I haven’t played.”

“He does a lot of good things with the puck, but he’s got to learn to defend better.

Sounds like a bigger version of Addison.

When the coaches tell you that your game isn't good enough, maybe instead of disagreeing, you could ask what you can do better?

Then take the attitude that you're going to focus on doing that better rather than acting like they don't know what they are talking about. Sometimes coaches don't have the right answers, but usually have to try to see/do things their way in order to assess what does or does not work.

[Protec]

Good grief, who is this Jiricek guy? A Euro cross between Addison and Peir Luc Dubai.

[mnfaninnc]

22 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

He was told that for a week then his results left things to be desired. The guy didn't buy a place although he was looking. 

He had a very tough 23-24 season full of defensive mistakes and yet when the coaches pointed it out he publicly argued with them instead of taking the comments to heart and working on his shortcomings. 

“They told me the last game was not good enough for me,” Jiricek said. “I told them I don’t think so, but that’s your opinion. I was out of the lineup after that. A whole month now, it feels like I haven’t played.”

“He does a lot of good things with the puck, but he’s got to learn to defend better. He needs to learn that on an NHL level, but if he’s not playing here, he needs to play in the American League because he needs to play.” (Kekäläinen)

Compare this to Rossi's attitude getting sent down. Rossi's reaction was to work his a$$ off to get where he wanted to be not just to exclaim that he deserved to be in the league. I can understand some frustration with his deployment but it is a very contrasting attitude to the one Rossi took. 

To me Rossi's work ethic and reaction to advice from coaches was exactly what you want to see from a young player. There is zero entitlement but a whole lot of drive in that kid. 

Rossi also surpassed Jiricek in every way statistically in his first 40 games.

Rossi- first 47- 9G-8A-17pts -3

Jiricek- first 47- 1G-9A-10pts -8 

Obviously Rossi would have outperformed a defenseman in points (though Faber did have more). I don't think that's an exciting stat line. -8 can be explained by it being CBJ.

However, what can't be explained are the quotes you have listed above. It has me questioning my opinion on the matter. Thanks for backing up your supporting evidence TGAL! 

With that, it would appear as if a player character check mark goes into the Rossi column.