Article: The Chickens Have Come To Roost For the Wild

[Sean Flick]

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[Dis-allowed display name]

Quote

 I know I went on a tirade about some of the things that got us here: the system, playing along the boards, and coaching. And I still stand by that.

Maybe, but the obvious problem is lack of available cap, and lack of talent.  This team has too many players (signed to recent extensions) that would be fourth line on a good team and we are relying on them to be regular contributors.

I am positive on our long term future, but we are still pretty screwed with at least another full year of this.  Even if we have fewer major injuries next year, I think our ceiling is advancing one round in the playoffs at most. 

At their peak last year, they had goal scoring out of the Kaprisov line, the Boldy line, and the GREEF line.   Mix in an occasional fourth line goal and they were tough to beat.   They folded like a cheap suit in the playoffs without a whimper and that was this roster's best.  Now they struggle to score and are frankly boring to watch them try to grit out a goal over 60 minutes.  Ohgren and Yurov can't arrive soon enough.

[FredJohnson]

18 minutes ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

Maybe, but the obvious problem is lack of available cap, and lack of talent.  This team has too many players (signed to recent extensions) that would be fourth line on a good team and we are relying on them to be regular contributors.

How good of a 2nd line can 15MM buy?? Boldy/Zucc/JEE are making 16MM next year FYI.

I beg that they get Nojo off the team and put Freddie (maybe Foligno) on the 4th line next season.

[Pewterschmidt]

36 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

put Freddie (maybe Foligno) on the 4th line next season.

We've beat this horse to death but we've got 4+ years more to watch these two stiffs so here goes some more:  If Guerin is the insightful 'hockey guy' that we're all told he is, how does he fail so badly with these multi year extensions.  A genius hockey guy should be able to spot a bubble NHL'r (Fred) and a one trick pony (Foligno who's trick is a physical glue guy) well into the back nine of their careers and not give 4+ yr extensions.  Just no excuse for this unforced error.

[Dis-allowed display name]

33 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

How good of a 2nd line can 15MM buy?? Boldy/Zucc/JEE are making 16MM next year FYI.

I beg that they get Nojo off the team and put Freddie (maybe Foligno) on the 4th line next season.

If Boldy is about an $8m a year player, get two more Boldys.   :)

This talk about possibly trading Rossi is just so dumb because you actually notice the guy in a positive way all the time.  Not notice him in a Dumba-fumbled-a-pass-in-the-offensive-zone-and-now-the-other-team-has-a-breakaway  kind of way.   

Two more $7ish million dollar players and a couple cheap young guys on low deals would make all the difference on this team.  I also understand we have a couple young guys that will eat up the cap money once it is available, but the team has more dead money than just Suter and Parise.  I love Flower as much as the next guy but is $4m on an aging backup goalie a good use of cap?

I propose a new rule, absolutely ZERO no movement clauses on anyone that is not one of your top eight players or over 32 years old.

[MNCountryLife]

56 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

I beg that they get Nojo off the team and put Freddie (maybe Foligno) on the 4th line next season.

If it takes begging to get Nojo off the team... tell me where.  I'll beg for that as well.    Unfortunately he has an NTC so he can't be sent down and has to wave his no trade clause.  We may have him next year as well... ugh.

[MrCheatachu]

57 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

If it takes begging to get Nojo off the team... tell me where.  I'll beg for that as well.    Unfortunately he has an NTC so he can't be sent down and has to wave his no trade clause.  We may have him next year as well... ugh.

That's not what an NTC means....you might be confusing that with a NMC.  No trade clauses does not prevent movement (waivers + AHL).  You, however, would expose him to waivers and only be able to bury $1.125M of his $2M salary in the minors.

That being said...who are you finding <$1.125M who would be better than MoJo?  I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Jujhar Khaira, Sammy Walker, or Adam Raska are better players that Mojo...

At the end of the day MoJo has 28 points through 74 games making $2m per year...you want to see more of Lucchini's 5 points through 36 or maybe Shaw's 3 points in 17?

[MNCountryLife]

20 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

That's not what an NTC means....you might be confusing that with a NMC.  No trade clauses does not prevent movement (waivers + AHL).  You, however, would expose him to waivers and only be able to bury $1.125M of his $2M salary in the minors.

That being said...who are you finding <$1.125M who would be better than MoJo?  I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Jujhar Khaira, Sammy Walker, or Adam Raska are better players that Mojo...

At the end of the day MoJo has 28 points through 74 games making $2m per year...you want to see more of Lucchini's 5 points through 36 or maybe Shaw's 3 points in 17?

I do get them mixed up.  So he can't be traded without consent but he can be waived or reassigned.  

[MNCountryLife]

22 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Jujhar Khaira, Sammy Walker, or Adam Raska are better players that Mojo...

Not sure I would agree with that.  Nojo gets Line 2 minutes.  The others do not.  Tough to compare them by number of games.  I'm not a fan of his play at all.  He completely fails the eye test for me.  Shaw and Luchinni seem to at least pressure the puck.

[FredJohnson]

1 hour ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

This talk about possibly trading Rossi is just so dumb because you actually notice the guy in a positive way all the time.

Yes, thank you!

[MrCheatachu]

25 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

Not sure I would agree with that.  Nojo gets Line 2 minutes.  The others do not.  Tough to compare them by number of games.  I'm not a fan of his play at all.  He completely fails the eye test for me.  Shaw and Luchinni seem to at least pressure the puck.

Thats the whole point, you're getting bent out of shape about a guy making $2M/year.  

You have to think if the coaching staff thought Lettieri or Lucchini would be putting up more points, they'd be getting 15 min/night over MoJo.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, MrCheatachu said:

That's not what an NTC means....you might be confusing that with a NMC.  No trade clauses does not prevent movement (waivers + AHL).  You, however, would expose him to waivers and only be able to bury $1.125M of his $2M salary in the minors.

That being said...who are you finding <$1.125M who would be better than MoJo?  I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Jujhar Khaira, Sammy Walker, or Adam Raska are better players that Mojo...

At the end of the day MoJo has 28 points through 74 games making $2m per year...you want to see more of Lucchini's 5 points through 36 or maybe Shaw's 3 points in 17?

Thanks for the clarification on NMC vs ntc as I know there are subtle distinctions

 also as much as I hate NoJo, and I do, there are few better alternatives at his price

[Need4speed99]

2 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

Thats the whole point, you're getting bent out of shape about a guy making $2M/year.  

You have to think if the coaching staff thought Lettieri or Lucchini would be putting up more points, they'd be getting 15 min/night over MoJo.

It's not the money he makes, its the spot he takes up. And we have yet to see what walker or even marat could do with 2nd line minutes.

Next year what about ohgren or yurov, that's where the real problem lies. And if freddy, foligno, and Hartman continue to put up subpar numbers and be liabilities the best we can hope for is 4th line time then the other problem is how much you are paying for 4th liners.

At that point, money does become an issue and the contracts.

Edited April 10 by Need4speed99

[Sam]

The game last night was very disappointing. Especially those breakaway goals for MacKinnon. He made Middleton and Bogosian look like fools. It seems like we need help defensively. 

 

[MrCheatachu]

3 hours ago, Need4speed99 said:

It's not the money he makes, its the spot he takes up. And we have yet to see what walker or even marat could do with 2nd line minutes.

Next year what about ohgren or yurov, that's where the real problem lies. And if freddy, foligno, and Hartman continue to put up subpar numbers and be liabilities the best we can hope for is 4th line time then the other problem is how much you are paying for 4th liners.

At that point, money does become an issue and the contracts.

Marat is a Center, so it's not MoJo getting 2nd line minutes its (checks lineup card) Rossi/Ek. 

And Walker?  You want to replace MoJo with Sammy Walker, who's on a blistering 0.65 points per game pace in the AHL and has been invisible in his 4 games with the big club this year?  MoJo isn't blocking Walker, Walker is blocking Walker.  

As tacky as it sounds, you have to play yourself into a position where you can't get sent back down.  Look what Boldy did...

You can throw a stone in the AHL and find a bunch of 'high energy guys' who can forecheck like mad, are likable by teamates, but can't put the biscuit in the basket.  You can find your next Dewar/Duhaime pretty easy, but its much harder to replace a 30 point guy on a $2M salary with only a single year remaining.

But this is a lot of ink being spilled on a guy who has 1 year left on his $2M contract.  All those AHL guys you want up instead of MoJo have had a shot this season, and nobody has looked better than Mojo...you want them up here, they have to play better.

Long story short, is MoJo is here because nobody is playing better than him.  And that, my friend, is the core issue.  Just be greatful it isnt  V1Ctor Rask 2.0 with his $4M cap hit...

[Protec]

You can't get caught by MacKinnon the way MN did last night. That's a gap and position thing. Reading the play and being extra careful. MN's defense isn't as bad as it looked there. It indeed looked bad, but I think there's some grace getting burned by that player.

In terms of Nojo, gotta agree that he's not getting bumped by amazing prospects or grinders. He's got tons of experience. He's not too expensive. He just plays such a weenie-finesse game that it rarely works in the West. He makes some plays and scores on quality chances at least as often than Zucker ever did. For 2M it's not the deal that's so bad, it's hard to watch and difficult to admit the Wild can't do any better currently. I do think they could get more or equal productivity from other guys given those minutes. No proof though cause the wrong guys got injured and NoJo always gets the 2nd line role. Cup ring Vs. AHL, I get it but I think NoJo doesn't get credit enough for making the Wild slower, apathetic, and easier to play against. 

[Pewterschmidt]

12 hours ago, Need4speed99 said:

And we have yet to see what walker or even marat could do with 2nd line minutes.

Walker is done.  He’s failed his audition for third or fourth line minutes.  I like the way hynzy is handling the rat.  Putting him in different situations (pp, pk) with different line mates.  He’s not ready for top six imo, but I like this kids potential

 I cannot believe I’m defending NoJo.  

[Pewterschmidt]

8 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

Just be greatful it isnt  V1Ctor Rask 2.0 with his $4M cap hit...

This is a good comparable for the middling players In our lineup (Fred, Foligno, NoJo, 4th line Mario bros, Beckman).  I remember when Beckman was getting held back because he wasn’t getting the opportunity.  I’d rather have pitlick.  Beckman needs two summers at mnfan’s thickness camp

[Protec]

Need to make changes during the off-season. This year's plan to rely on vets was a semi-fail. Sure the Wild have experience but the last Colorado game and the heavy Central teams dominating the Wild all year is a wake-up call. They couldn't stay healthy and the talent/production drop-off is significant after the Wild's top 5 guys.

[MrCheatachu]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

 I cannot believe I’m defending NoJo.  

President of the MoJo fan club → Pewterschmidt

Marcus Johansson's #1 fan → Pewterschmidt

Guy most likely to donate kidney to MoJo → Pewterschmidt

 

Why don't you two kiss already, and get it over with.

[Protec]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Beckman needs two summers at mnfan’s thickness camp

Add about 45-55lbs and we're talkin...

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

You can throw a stone in the AHL and find a bunch of 'high energy guys' who can forecheck like mad, are likable by teamates, but can't put the biscuit in the basket.  You can find your next Dewar/Duhaime pretty easy, but its much harder to replace a 30 point guy on a $2M salary with only a single year remaining.

But this is a lot of ink being spilled on a guy who has 1 year left on his $2M contract.  All those AHL guys you want up instead of MoJo have had a shot this season, and nobody has looked better than Mojo...you want them up here, they have to play better.

Long story short, is MoJo is here because nobody is playing better than him.  And that, my friend, is the core issue.  Just be greatful it isnt  V1Ctor Rask 2.0 with his $4M cap hit...

And, that AHL player/prospect must be able to truly beat out Johansson to be able to justify sending $2m down to the AHL (or possibly out with waivers) and keeping the prospect/AHL player instead. It's got to be a true couple of rungs up the ladder, and, Johansson might not even be the guy who's taken out. It might be a guy like Shawzy. 

[mnfaninnc]

Quote

The chickens have come home to roost.

IMO, the biggest mistake that was made this season was Shooter not leaving enough wiggle room in the cap to be able to account for injuries. I think this really sank us early on.

This has nothing to do with the 3 resignings at the beginning of September. Those don't kick in until next season. This was a calculated bet that the Wild could once again roll the dice and be healthier than average AND that their stars would not get hurt. 

Under almost any circumstances, with the buyouts, if our stars, or maybe the better phrase would be "cap stars" would get hurt, there was not immediate help in the organization. The downgrade of a Spurgeon getting hurt and being replaced in the lineup by a Daemon Hunt was dramatic up and down the pairings. We simply did not have the depth needed to adapt to such an injury.

If you then look at Boldy missing time, Kaprizov nursing himself back to health starting at about 70%, Brodin missing time twice, Ek missing some time, Foligno missing a large portion of time + not being healthy when returning, Goose2 missing time, it was far too much for the thin depth of the club to handle. 

What came home to roost was -$14.7m in cap penalties. It's not an excuse. It's a reason. And it's not a stand alone reason. We could have been competitive with the penalties, but it required better than average player health. When you add those things together, and the fact that Guerin left himself no room to call up the best prospects he had, this added up to a lot of losses. 

So, what exactly came home to roost? Rolling the dice that we could have beaten the odds again with a basement salary team. It doesn't always work out the way it was planned. I guess another way of explaining it is that you don't always roll a Yahtzee every game you play. Sometimes, there's just a 0 in that slot.

 

[Willy the poor boy]

Now it's a reason and not an excuse. Hmmm...

[Pewterschmidt]

3 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

President of the MoJo fan club → Pewterschmidt

Marcus Johansson's #1 fan → Pewterschmidt

Guy most likely to donate kidney to MoJo → Pewterschmidt

 

Why don't you two kiss already, and get it over with.

I will admit I’ve grown out my neck beard