Article: Bill Guerin Is the Right Person To Get the Wild Over the Hump

[Brendan Johnson]

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[MacGyver]

Enumerating the number of times a team has made the playoffs loses its significance when you stop to realize half the teams in the league make the playoffs every year. What happens after that is what really matters. Although Geurin has not been there the entire time the Wild are one of only 11 teams to have never won the Cup. 

Guerin is obviously not without his flaws. He apparently is a hot head who can be difficult to get along with and has a good deal of responsibility in the disruption in the front office this year. Don't think I heard him accept any accountability for that but yet he demands it from everyone else? If the front office is dysfunctional it has to bleed into the locker room. Guerin has what I refer to as Billy's boys. All those aging vets who were dealt contracts with no trade clauses all are in the club. As well as Fluery who will get at least a one if not two year extension. If you are not in the club (Rossi) you are on the outside. Billy is an emotional guy and that's not always a good thing. Calling him the best GM in the world is quite a stretch. 

Speaking of those 11 teams here is the list. Three on the list are in the dance this year and Nashville will likely make it four so  odds are pretty fair that the list might shrink to ten this year. Be an interesting discussion on which of those teams will be off the list before the Wild.

• Buffalo Sabres
• Vancouver Canucks
• San Jose Sharks
• Florida Panthers
• Arizona Coyotes
• Nashville Predators
• Winnipeg Jets
• Minnesota Wild
• Columbus Blue Jackets
• Ottawa Senators (1992 incarnation)
• Seattle Kraken

 

 

Edited April 8 by MacGyver

[Dean]

20 + years of playoff appearances and flameouts isn’t anything to be proud of. End of season excuse making and projecting playoff success from prospects not in nhl yet is the norm . It’s time to demand more and quit patting yourself on the back for participating in the nhl .  Playoff hockey is the best and we don’t get it in Minnesota because of bad management! 
    Spitting chicklets this week had an interview with a former player that knows Billy. He said after the Dallas playoff loss he asked Billy about it.  Billy said he loved his team , loved his guys . He had the right guys but they made the wrong decisions.  That was 3 years ago . His guys don’t make the right decisions so he extended them . Then he gets another flame out and a non playoff season with his guys he loves.  That tells me he’s flawed in evaluating players.  His ego and his friendships get in the way of proper evaluating or holding others accountable. 
    To say Billy knows accountability is ridiculous. He’s the guy as ast gm in Pitt had a coach come to him about another coach molesting his wife. Billy did nothing , swept it under rug and acted like it wasn’t his job . The good ole boys let him off like they did with. Chicago whose coach was raping players . Then Billy comes to minny and berates some supposedly salt of the earth guy out of the wild plus a few other staff. Did the media get an apology or any accountability out of him ? No but they do write fluff stories about how great he is for doing nothing!  Yes he may be a good gm in time , he has a good pedigree but hasn’t done anything as a gm yet. He’s ridden on the coattails of others for his Stanley cups as player and front office . Not because he was the man.  He also inherited a playoff making team. He didn’t build them into a playoff team. He’s building them out of a playoff team with all his undersized weak players he adores so much. 
  Does Colorado, Winnipeg Vegas etc. have a 2 million dollar player sitting in press box season after season because there to old to play . No but Billy does . Do they give 5 years clause laden contracts to guys that score 13 pts in a season ?  Do the other teams have cap guys ? Yep everyone in nhl does except billy . 
    He’s not a great gm. He’s learning on fly and making mistakes .  It’s great the good ole boy club picked Billy for USA gm. We will definitely see what his idea of hockey is with the team he builds . My guess is undersized speed team. .

[Burnt Toast]

I’m waiting to see how things unfold for the Wild, say 3 more years. At that point nobody’s opinion is going to matter. Either they are a a top team with a legitimate SC roster or…. To be fair this is BG’s first go as a GM so even he can’t know conclusively if his plan will work. He’s going to have to wait and see along with the rest of us. 

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Don't think I heard him accept any accountability for that but yet he demands it from everyone else?

Great point. This is a classic bully move.  Do as I say not as I do hypocrisy.  
i think Guerin still has lots of runway from OCL, but he eventually needs to win and that’ll come down to brackets picks.  Also have to believe Guerin has used all his get out of jail from Human Resources cards.  Anymore front office drama + middling on ice performance gets Guerin fired

[joebou15]

Guerin came in embroiled in controversy, and it hasn't left. People liked that he stood up to Parise and Suter. And, frankly, given the chance to do it again, I'd probably do it all again. 

That said, he's willing to stare down star quality players, but becomes a total softy with aging, past-their-usefulness players by doubling down on the smallest of sample sizes to hand out no-trade clauses.

The Wild fired Tim Army after he got his Iowa team back in the post season for the 2nd time in 4 seasons, and had his teams on the brink during the COVID seasons. Mind you, Brett McLean has taken the team into the shitter. They can't play defense, and guys that were on an upward trajectory have taken a step back.

Dean Evason was allowed to get outcoached in the playoffs each year and only after a shitty start this year did he feel the need to make a move. He then hired Hynes, who hasn't inspired any confidence coming in, and doesn't seem like he is the guy going forward.

He berates the logistics guy in the front office to the point a formal complaint had to be filed and an investigation was conducted. 

He runs a front office where a long time AGM has to leave because there was a cap mistake and the NHL had to intervene. Not to mention, had to then handle the books for the team because he is incapable, and doesn't have anyone that can step in.

On-ice product? Sure, it's been mostly exciting. Cap buyout penalties be damned, but the team has been competitive and have had the season derailed by injuries. But it's also been derailed by ineptitude. 

I cannot, in good faith, endorse the job that Guerin has done, nor give him a vote of confidence that he can lead the team to a Stanley Cup. 

He'll get his chance to do his thing by ownership. And while my issue is mostly with fans that believe Guerin is infallible, it's plainly clear that he can and does make a myriad of mistake, and is not held accountable by fans or media.

All because he bought out Parise and Suter, and because he appears on their podcast.

Well, I'm not buying it from the snake oil salesman. 

Edited April 9 by joebou15
Sentence clarity

[Up North Guy]

Brendan, I hope you have your flak jacket and helmet on after writing this. I see a lot of incoming shrapnel headed your way.

[mnfaninnc]

I, like Joe, am not willing to endorse Bill Guerin either. However, I'm also not willing to throw him under the bus. I didn't see much of XGMDR, but the last 5 years were just brutal for him. Fletcher came in and left the team in better shape than when he got there. But he had flaws and when it came to cap management, something he should have been good at, he wasn't.

Fenton was a disaster and what he got for the young guys he traded away, except for Granny which was more of an inside job, was pathetic. 

And then, enter Guerin. He had a prospect in Boldy in college, and a prospect in Kaprizov in Russia and little else in the pipeline. He had some aging vets who thought they were running the show, and a couple of nice younger guys. He also took over after the draft of that year.

Like it or not, he had to begin a complete rebuild without using that word. I assume that OCL starts twitching when he hears that word. We all know the pressure OCL has put on Guerin to make the playoffs, that is his starting demand. He also wants to win. So, Guerin built a competitive roster and has made the playoffs in all seasons except this one. 

He had to do 2 things: Build a competitive team, and build organizational depth to build a contending team. To date, he bought a lot of time for his contending candidates. His competitive teams have been that. Notice the language because a competitive team is typically a WC team eeking into the playoffs. But, instead, he didn't just become a WC team, he was in the top 3 of the division in each year.

But, with overperforming players and the need to outwork everyone every night, he had a team that had already hit 5th gear and had nothing left to ramp up to. And, we knew this going into each season. We knew they were not as good as their point totals indicated. And, we knew that the way they got points was feasting on the bottom dwellers.

Shooter has done well in spots and not so well in spots. He has made some rookie GM mistakes, hopefully he learns from them. But nobody can complain about his desire to win. I get that when we're losing, he is a bear to be around, that's simply his competitive nature. I'd much rather have a competitive GM in place than one who doesn't care. He loves to win, and we fans love to win too.

Shooter has also done something the other 3 GMs haven't really done. He's protected his prospects. He hasn't traded them away unless he knows he can't sign them. He also hasn't traded them away for rentals. He's let them develop without a whole lot of demands on them to make the jump before they're ready. To do this, that means he is committed to them getting the proper developmental time, and has thought of the long term plan. 

We are hungry for successful playoff hockey. We want deep runs. He knows the guys that are placeholders aren't the most skilled players in the league. He also knows that they have flaws. But as they keep grinding away, the young guys are developing. The first players of his first draft class are arriving. Faber can be argued to be part of that class too, since he picked him up before his NHL debut. Transition is tough, and has speed bumps often in them. 

We've got a couple more years of this mushy middle stuff before the transition is complete. We're on the back 9 of a rebuild. And, probably most importantly, we have not had to suffer the pain of tanking seasons. We've been able to pull this off without being historically bad. 

I am willing to ride a little farther with Guerin at the helm. He's shown enough to at least warrant that. Patience is a must during this time with tempered expectations. We've got some real exciting players marinating and it will be fun to watch them grow. It needs to be repeated: He has not traded away his prospects for rentals, and he has not rushed his prospects to the NHL. These were the mistakes of his predecessors. 

[Lovehockey]

Absolutely useless article. Seems like the writer took BG resume and for whatever reasons trying to sell him the the fans 

[Protec]

Some people know that GMs aren't gonna be perfect and they're under a microscope. Lots of things they can't control, etc.

When it's really time for them to go, you know it.

Guerin has his fans and critics for sure with polarizing statements or moves but the Wild aren't doing too bad. Certainly not a burn it all down situation so watching Ek, Faber, Kirill, and even Wallstedt beat Chicago shows me the Wild aren't in fire the GM mode. Maybe in a few years if things go South.

[MNCountryLife]

Nobody is perfect.  Everyone makes mistakes.  Guerin is no different as a GM.  He made a mistake keeping Alex, NoJo and Freddy.  He made a mistake letting Nyquist go to Nashville.  His next couple of years are important.  Will he effectively use the extra cap room or squander it on bad signings.  More importantly, can he really turn IA into an actual feeder.

[Pewterschmidt]

17 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

More importantly, can he really turn IA into an actual feeder.

I think it’s time to have a clear eyed conversation about Brett McLean in Iowa.  Wasn’t he in charge of special teams when he was in St. Paul.  It was a disaster and he was ‘promoted’ to Iowa.  Might be time to promote him again

[FredJohnson]

Bill Guerin Is the Right Person To Get the Wild Over the Hump

Missing a question mark??

[Outskated]

The problem that Billy and all GM's have is they get too attached to certain guys.  They end up keeping them longer than they should, overpaying them, NTC's and all the other fails.  Every new GM comes into their new team and it's easy for them to ditch guys and they look tough with the I'm cleaning house vibe.  Then, when they need to clean house again they double down because he 'knows' these guys and it will be too hard to replace them.  This is what costs GM's their job.

The other issue is with the owners.  The NHL is a very heavy gate driven league.  Fans want the teams to tank so they can get some generational talent coming in with top picks, but the owners don't want to tank because it costs them millions in lost ticket revenue and corporate sponsorships.  Craig Leipold has shown over the years he has zero appetite for rebuilds or tanking.  You can bet your bottom dollar he has told Billy to keep the team competitive year after year.  

Until people stop showing up at the X for this middling, one and done team, nothing is going to change.  I only buy second hand tickets at half price after some dummy has already taken the loss on em and don't pay for that overpriced beer.  Leipold isn't getting any money from me.  

[Imyourhuckleberry]

15 hours ago, Dean said:

interview with a former player that knows Billy. He said after the Dallas playoff loss he asked Billy about it.  Billy said he loved his team , loved his guys . He had the right guys but they made the wrong decisions.  That was 3 years ago .

Sorry Dean, but that wasn't even 12 months ago. The Wild have only lost to Dallas in the playoffs once in Guerin's time as the GM and that was at the end of April in 2023.

Guerin took over a difficult situation that began back in 2012. He may not have optimized every decision along the way, but would Suter and Parise be helping the Wild today if he kept them around? Most of the other decisions have been influenced by that cap hell. Until the Wild are out of it, free agents probably aren't flocking to MN at a discount. He's been focused on 25-26 since he's been here, building towards that.

I think he deserves to get to that season and then we'll see how the team he built can compete. By that point, a high percentage of the contracts will be from his tenure as the Wild GM.

[FredJohnson]

Haight! Haight! Haight! Haight! Haight!

[FredJohnson]

(OT winner by Brunette above reminds me about Sergei Zholtok) RIP Sergei. Still can't believe he's gone.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I think it’s time to have a clear eyed conversation about Brett McLean in Iowa.  Wasn’t he in charge of special teams when he was in St. Paul.  It was a disaster and he was ‘promoted’ to Iowa.

I think we should start that conversation.

1. McLean was given the keys to what looked to be an exciting Baby Wild team. His best players were gutted by the Big Wild due to injuries.
2. While this has been a transition year for the D, having so many new faces hasn't gone so well. What is the problem there? One thing I see is no respected defensive coach on the team.
3. My biggest problem: The players are not bulking up to be competitive in the NHL. How is this not being stressed?
4. Has there been improvement in the 2nd half? I say no!
5. When hired, was it too late to get good assistants? Maybe.
6. One must wonder, are McLean's messages getting through to the players? At this level, a great amount of teaching needs to be done. Is this happening?

That should get the conversation going. For the most part, the commenters have not watched Iowa Wild hockey. We look at stats and results. Unless we live there to watch it live, the camera work is not good enough to give us a true picture of the team. Maybe one of the writers here has had eyes on the team?

I am not opposed to moving on from McLean, but, I doubt we'll want to swallow a coaching contract at that level.

Edited April 9 by mnfaninnc

[Outskated]

39 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think we should start that conversation.

Just think where they would be if Wallstedt wasn't there.  The kid has a winning record on a horrible hockey club.  

[mnfaninnc]

11 minutes ago, Outskated said:

Just think where they would be if Wallstedt wasn't there.  The kid has a winning record on a horrible hockey club. 

Just looking at McIntyre's sv%, The Wall is about .3 better in sv% in twice as many games. McIntyre's was about tied with him last season, and McIntyre was the #1 until playoff time. 

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

 

1. My biggest problem: The players are not bulking up to be competitive in the NHL. How is this not being stressed?

The thing that everyone can do that comes with no trade-offs in terms of speed, flexibility, or time spent developing other skills.

[Lovehockey]

Here is what BG inherited when he started as a GM. Plus Kaprisov and Boldy were coming. And exactly the current team any better? Goalie maybe? 

 

 

[WIWild]

Would love to be a fly on OCL's wall. Maybe he didn't know about the assault cover up allegations at the time of BG's hire. Maybe he thinks, ok sometimes these allegations are false. But then the two known public issues with employees this year... that's a pattern. If a person is exceptional, a lot of garbage is overlooked. But if I'm OCL, BG does not have the character, the face of the organization that I want. Instead, he's the 800 pound gorilla - and he's been mid, not exceptional. As positions become available in the organization, how many quality people stay away from the headache? I wonder if OCL had that employee allegation officially looked into, trying to get out of BG's contract. People do make mistakes, like oversleeping, or being late to meetings - not the level of garbage Joe spelled out above.

[mnfaninnc]

16 hours ago, WIWild said:

Maybe he didn't know about the assault cover up allegations at the time of BG's hire. Maybe he thinks, ok sometimes these allegations are false. But then the two known public issues with employees this year... that's a pattern.

Shooter was exonerated with the investigation when his coach told him about the assault on his wife. What exactly were you thinking he should have done that he didn't do?

The accusations within the organization, the way I read them, were not 2 allegations against Shooter, but 1 HR complaint by a disgruntled employee who sacrificed his career, and 1 allegation that was investigating O'Hearn. 

I guess you could ask if Shooter was hard to work for? I do think he is very grumpy when the team is losing and very patient when it's winning. I know many mock his comment about it's about winning, but you cannot mock that he really cares about it. 

And, to date, based upon the experience of 4 GMs, he's been the best one we've had. 

If the argument is that you're unhappy with the way details were kept inside the organization and not made public, that's a fair yet delusional argument. In all of business, most of that stuff stays within the company and you have to hack HR records to get the real story. The most HR departments will give someone inquiring about a fired employee is confirmation that he/she worked there and the dates. 

To put this quite simply: We, the fans, do not have a right to know everything that goes on in the organization. And, since it's been locked in the vault, we have really only heard 1 side of the story which was the accusation. And, even that is a bit obscure. 

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, Lovehockey said:

Here is what BG inherited when he started as a GM. Plus Kaprisov and Boldy were coming. And exactly the current team any better? Goalie maybe? 

That looks old and slow. I see quite a bit of not caring attitudes on that roster too.