Article: Wild Are Still Hanging Around

[Thomas Williams]

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[Protec]

Like putting down a dog you love. Sometimes it drags out longer than it should. Just get it over with and start moving on. You're not doing any good putting off the inevitable.

[Pewterschmidt]

2023-2024 Wild = Old Yeller

Bright spots: The Iron Ranger and Kooz.  Kooz playing PP#1 is an interesting development.  It telegraphs that the coaching staff has higher hopes than a middle six grinder, and I'd say he's shown flashes as 21 years old that give hope to the fan base.  Chisolm makes mistakes but that's how highly skilled players gain confidence and learn.  Remember watching Fiala fight the puck during his early years.  He never got discouraged because he's got a giant ego and self confidence.  I think that's what we're watching with Chisolm.  

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Mason Shaw getting his game back to a high level could be a huge development for next year. He didn't get an assist on the game winner because it banked off defender sticks, but he scored the first goal and was instrumental in the game winner as well last game. Bogo showing some offense too.

[Protec]

Bury 2023-24 and turn the page. Need to upgrade a little bit in every area. Bigger, faster, more skilled, better on defense, more consistent goaltending.

I think they could get a pretty great D or F they can afford for Rossi & Gus combo trade.(2 birds with one stone suggestion.) There's also going to be UFAs available except that jams up the roster even more. With veteran guys, depth and injuries, AND a batch of prospects looking to make an impact, will the Wild have room for all of them? Will a trade, buyout, or LTIR move make a difference?

How much do the Wild want to insulate or slow-cook the prospects? Could a buyout on NoJo be acceptable to add cap penalties? To open a spot for a league min. guy would actually cost like 1.6M against the cap if that was a consideration. For Beckman, Heidt, Firstov, Yurov or RazKam, would the Wild be better off? I would rather have a young, hungry, more durable player. (Which is why Ohgren didn't get my consideration here.) You could argue, Beckman with just a few points over a twenty-pack of NHL 4th line minute games could be close to NoJo level production if given a chance. 0.25 points/game for Beckman in 9mins of ice isn't far off from NoJo 0.40 points/game for 15mins avg. TOI. I think this season really shows how older players are less durable and have less fire in their belly. The Guerin safe bets backfired somewhat and the Wild got burned. Need better balance with young injections of energy and talent to go with the old dogs who can't pull the sled like they used to but still know the trails. 

I really wanna see a Knudi to Beckman goal. Been waiting. Saw them on the ice together a bit against Ottawa. Perhaps tonight? Beckman's been getting about 9mins a game so not a lot of time but he's shooting the puck. Only one game of the last five he hasn't registered a shot. Better balance throughout the lineup with skill and experience would be great. The Wild need Beckman to come into next year's camp with the mnfaninnc-muscle. Seriously...

Edited April 4 by Protec

[Willy the poor boy]

42 minutes ago, Protec said:

Beckman's been getting about 9mins a game so not a lot of time but he's shooting the puck

And what a shot it is.

[viper3119]

1 hour ago, Protec said:

I think they could get a pretty great D or F they can afford for Rossi & Gus combo trade

just stop with the Rossi trade talks.  Yes he's smaller but he's been one of the best players in a long time and you want to trade him? (he's out scored Marian Gaborik's rookie point total)

[Willy the poor boy]

24 minutes ago, viper3119 said:

just stop with the Rossi trade talks.  Yes he's smaller but he's been one of the best players in a long time and you want to trade him? (he's out scored Marian Gaborik's rookie point total)

This team has perennially need scoring and there goes Fiala and now Rossi? Let's hope they come to their senses soon.

[Protec]

9 minutes ago, viper3119 said:

just stop with the Rossi trade talks.  Yes he's smaller but he's been one of the best players in a long time and you want to trade him? (he's out scored Marian Gaborik's rookie point total)

This is a great argument IMO. I do want to trade him. The Wild haven't had a quality asset to trade in forever. Always a cast-off or deadline-dump.

Over the years, I've had many Rossi criticisms. Mostly size and Euro insufficiency. He's put up some points, but I have never seen him take over a game, lead a charge, battle a Tkachuk, etc. It's just not the kind of player he is. He could get there one day, but can he defend against the Blues, Stars, Knights, Avs? Maybe? I suppose we've seen a nice step this year, I'm not denying that. 

This is a bigger issue which is that MN has upgrades and corrections to make. Guerin, Brackett, Evason, who really cares who's fault it is today. It's that group most likely. The bigger thing is how to make it better from here. Rossi is good, but is he the answer to the Wild's future hump-ascension and ultimate victory? Should the Wild commit long-term money to Rossi? They selected him so it seems wrong somehow to trade him but how can you get something good if you don't give up something good?

The Wild have screwed up so many times keeping the wrong guys, picking the wrong guys, trading at the wrong times, and the list of goofs goes on. I ask myself, will trading Rossi become a huge regret? Would it be as bad as losing Gaborik for nuthin, Burns for nuthin in the end after Coyle became Donato, became a late round pick. Trade Leddy, give away Tuch, acquire Hanzal & White, draft P.Johansson, trade Neiderietter, let go of Bjugstad, sign Johansson, elevate expectations for Gus, wait on Addison & Rossi.

I'm saying the Wild should perhaps try to take the value they've gained through the draft and areas they've done well to make progress and try to multiply it if possible. Otherwise, you're only keeping pace with teams who also want to get better.

I just don't see Rossi as being an untouchable guy who's impossible to replace. He's inexpensive and young with potential so that's outstanding, but an alternative player could be great for MN too, that's all.

 

[Pewterschmidt]

16 minutes ago, Protec said:

Would it be as bad as losing Gaborik for nuthin, Burns for nuthin in the end after Coyle became Donato, became a late round pick. Trade Leddy, give away Tuch, acquire Hanzal & White, draft P.Johansson, trade Neiderietter, let go of Bjugstad, sign Johansson, elevate expectations for Gus, wait on Addison

Ooof, i thought I'd buried these memories forever.  I need to take a knee and re-group after reading this.

[Protec]

23 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

This team has perennially need scoring and there goes Fiala and now Rossi? Let's hope they come to their senses soon.

I think this was true pre-Kaprizov. Earlier this year and at times with Fred, or previously Greenway, Donato, Kunin, Reaves, and similar guys of the past who don't give you enough, now the Wild see more scoring from Ek, Hartman, Boldy & Zuccarello. Heidt, and Yurov who haven't arrived in the NHL yet both look like they'll be offensive guys. So it's fair to ask where they'll all fit, cap management, etc. Does Rossi qualify as a core guy or complimentary guy. Is he a top-six center or just a very good center.

Is anyone suggesting giving him away, or would you need to trade a good player to get a good player? I think there's needs the Wild have today where scoring is less a priority and a trade off to gain size and hardness would be a net gain for the team. I didn't make this up out of nowhere. I've been saying this kind of thing for years and the recent Rossi rumors are Russo reports I'm pretty sure. Seems to me like a smoke & fire anology which is being spun into foolishness to even consider. I disagree and think the Wild could make what seems like a lateral move to make another small gain for the overall. 

[Pewterschmidt]

22 minutes ago, Protec said:

I just don't see Rossi as being an untouchable guy who's impossible to replace. He's inexpensive and young with potential so that's outstanding, but an alternative player could be great for MN too, that's all.

I'm not opposed to this, but my vote is to hold on to Rossi at least one more season and see how he progresses.  Worst case: He's plateau''d and we've got a 20 goal scorer, which is a valuable trade asset.  Best case: he takes another stair step (30 goal scorer), a more valuable trade asset if we choose to trade.

I agree that come playoff hockey, as Rossi's game is today, he'll become a player for the Mark Stone's of the league to easily neutralize.

Rossi's small frame (lack of thickness) make him more susceptible to injury as he logs more NHL miles, so it'd be nice to get ahead of that.

Edited April 4 by Pewterschmidt

[Citizen Strife]

The main issue is what are you getting back?  The unknown quantity could be Granlund into Fiala and onto Fiala into Faber, but when do you just have 20-goal scoring rookies fall into your lap?  I get that Faber has more upside, but ditching Rossi for an unknown carries just as much risk as signing him for too long or too much.  I would venture to guess a 2-3 year, $4.5-5m per deal might suffice until they know his known quantity.

[viper3119]

46 minutes ago, Protec said:

Should the Wild commit long-term money to Rossi?

Who says it has to be long term money? why not just a 2-3 year bridge deal and save the big long term money for Faber this summer? Your argument hinges on the hope that our other prospects or return on a trade hopefully pan out better than what we have in a known asset (Rossi).  What you are proposing smell the same as the Rask for Nino trade.

[viper3119]

34 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Rossi's small frame (lack of thickness) make him more susceptible to injury

Rossi maybe short (5' 9") but he definetly doesn't lack thickness as after the last summer he was almsot 190 lbs which is 20 lbs more than Spurgeon and the same weight as Chisholm who has 4 inches in height on Rossi.

[Protec]

Good points which is why I like this argument. Rossi could stay in MN and become the ultimate Austrian NHLer. "LETS THROW ANOTHER SHRIMP ON THE BAR-B!" 😃

Or not.

He could get traded and we could debate the results later, but I 100% think you gotta justify the move if it happened. A top four defenseman or a bigger forward who can score too would make sense. We don't know if Guerin plans to sign a UFA like Elias Lindholm. In that case could Rossi be a guy that helps the Wild move up in the draft if packaged together with another prospect or pick? The needs have changed since 2020 right? Spurgeon and Brodin didn't carry all the water on defense for a change.

I'm okay with Rossi continuing in MN. Another year could be good? It could also be viewed as a missed opportunity if anything goes poorly. Since the Wild are getting so close to the cap penalties ending, they really need to setup the roster for the 25-26 season. If Rossi is not 100% part of your long-term plan or if it's been decided a bigger team is the goal, then explore the possibilities. 

[Pewterschmidt]

31 minutes ago, Protec said:

Austrian NHLer. "LETS THROW ANOTHER SHRIMP ON THE BAR-B!"

Lloyd Christmas??

[Citizen Strife]

Yeah sorry.  If Rossi becomes a 30-goal scorer, good luck trying to convince anyone he's going anywhere.

[Protec]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Lloyd Christmas??

[mnhockeyfan03]

Rossi should be traded for a bigger center or top pick.  His trade value will never be higher than this summer after this season.  Other teams in the eastern conference will see upside.  He can’t compete against the big teams in the west in the playoffs.  We need to build for a championship and he is not what we need to do that.  Gus and Spurgeon should also be traded.  Also Faber is good but not great yet.  He is worth 5-6mm per  year contract extension.  Nothing more. He looks great compared to the rest of our dmen because we only have 1-2 good ones the rest are just not that good.  On a good team he is a second pair guy.  He doesn’t have the strength or shot to command $7-8mm per year.  Against the big teams he still gets pushed around.  The last thing you want is another spurgeon type contract that looks very bad right now.  

[Willy the poor boy]

4 hours ago, Protec said:

Heidt, and Yurov who haven't arrived in the NHL yet both look like they'll be offensive guys.

I just don't think it's wise to count your chickens before they're hatched. Addison was a sure fire Suter replacement not long ago. Rossi is now a known commodity. He put in the work and did what was asked of him. I think you know as well as I that's rare with younger guys this day and age.

[mnfaninnc]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:13 PM, Citizen Strife said:

I would venture to guess a 2-3 year, $4.5-5m per deal might suffice until they know his known quantity.

Did we not learn anything with the Goose resigning? It was too much money for the production of a rookie. He should have been signed in the 2-year $2m area. His contract simply put too much pressure on himself so when things went south, there was more of a monkey on his back. 

Rossi is a rookie coming off an ELC. He has little leverage. A $2ishm 2 year deal will be fine. It's a 100% raise and sets him up to be both hungry and prove it for a big deal. It's the same way we went with Haula, with Dumba,  and with Ek. 

I'd include a bulk up bonus in there too, almost mandating what is expected. Rossi has had a fine year. It's one year. Let him do it again a couple more seasons before backing up the brinks truck to him. Even Boldy was a little too soon (even though it will age well). I'd be leery of doing this with Faber too, though I'm more confident in his skills. 

[Citizen Strife]

I don't think $3.5m is backing up the truck on Gus.  It is paying for a goalie who is hopefully looking for future rewards, but a smart enough number to back out of if it blows up.  Kinda did this year...so wait and see.

Rossi scored 20-goals, and did so while being responsible on any line.  He busted his ass and put himself as the defacto second behind Ek until someone either says they are better or he slips.

If Faber is going to be afforded a Brinks truck, I think a half-bridge/substantial contract is hardly a problem.

 

 

 

Edited April 5 by Citizen Strife

[mnfaninnc]

Playoff Updates:

Metallurg is tied 1-1 in its 3rd round. Yurov no points so far.

Oshawa is up 3-2 in their series, Kumpulainen is on the sheet 1-1-2. He also takes the most faceoffs for Oshawa.

Saginaw swept Owen Sound, so Petrovsky watch is now on. I'd say sign him and give him a PTO for the A right now.

Prince George and Moose Jaw swept their opponents. Heidt had a couple of apples, and led game 4 with an elbowing penalty to get things going. Parker had no points but a nice +5 in the final 2 games.