Article: Minnesota's Injuries Highlight Why They Must Hold Onto Their Surpluses This Summer

[Tony Abbott]

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[Willy the poor boy]

Oh Tony, Tony, Tony! You get a 10 minute misconduct for this one...

[Will D. Ness]

I'm thinking the only reason we would explore trading Rossi is we need more physical "Ek" type of centers and have a surplus of finesse speedy small centers.

[Citizen Strife]

I think Rossi is safe.  A guy who went from an NHL chump to a 20-goal scorer in a season is worth keeping around.  Hartman and Gaudreau aren't true center options. They are security blankets in case of emergency.  Hartman has done well in Ek's absence, but I highly doubt Guerin is dumb enough to cast Rossi off unless someone came with a good offer.  Rossi strikes me a Granlund type guy.  He's too good not to give multiple chances at staying center or wing.  I think Granlund topped out at 70 pts one year.  Give Rossi Ohgren or Yurov instead of Johansson, and you have a killer second line.

Guerin is probably going to backfill with Khusnutdinov and Yurov, push Hartman and Gaudreau down, and then hope this injury bullshit is done.

Spurgeon is too valuable.  Give him a mulligan and see what happens next year.

 

 

Edited March 21 by Citizen Strife
Edit

[mnfaninnc]

This is another good article by Tony. His conclusions are solid.

Has Rossi earned a huge contract extension? No. That's why a bridge deal is best for him. It should be affordable, and Rossi needs another monster offseason and must improve on 3 aspects: Strength/weight, edge work, winning faceoffs. All 3 things are doable, and a bridge deal is good for him. I wouldn't be opposed to going year by year with him. I think his size makes going this way almost the best way.

I wouldn't trade Rossi at this point, even in the "right deal." I think he's more important to the franchise. He was challenged by Guerin in the offseason and he has delivered. He needs to be challenged again, and I believe he'll deliver again. I believe he'll reach 40 points this year, not bad for a rookie.

As for Spurgeon, unless we are giving a terribly good discount, I can't see any team really biting on him with the injury uncertainty. I am pessimistic that we will get the same player back, and I do believe that he will spend some more LTIR time on the roster. Can we plan for 40-50 games from him? I believe he'll start out on LTIR this season as he rehabs. That has value for the team to create some cushion. It is also decent in giving a prospect a nice runway to ease into the lineup. Our problem is that we don't have an abundance of RHS defenders who can do that. 

Every one of the skaters that was referenced above as similar skaters aren't really comparables. It's Spurgeon's size that makes a difference. All those guys were much larger, and a larger body should be able to endure more. Spurgeon's lack of size, especially surgically repaired, to me, leads to a risk that A) he won't be the same player or B) that he won't be as available. But that doesn't mean you give him away. I also think he will have a great deal of rust to shed when he gets back next season. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually took 3rd pairing minutes. 

Now comes the part that Tony didn't really expand upon, and I think is a key point in the article. 

1. Shooter has got to go get another cap guru. He needs one he can trust.
2. Shooter rolled the dice and failed to give himself wiggle room to even call up much of his A roster at the beginning of the season. This must be acknowledged as a mistake, and with aging players on the roster, he's got to give himself a cap cushion, even with the steep penalties.
3. There has been a huge reluctance by this organization to use LTIR to their benefit. This philosophy must change. I'm not suggesting they go the Vegas route, but even in the spirit of the rule, the Wild have not taken advantage of LTIR rules and intricacies to their best advantage. 

One other item that Tony mentioned was Heidt coming into camp and making a statement that he belongs. To this point, unless Heidt has put on 15 lbs. since last year, he is not ready for the N, and I believe he is not eligible to play in the A. He does play an aggressive game finishing checks and getting involved in scrums, but he's got to be stronger than he is now for the N. I still believe he is a few years out. 

I do like Tony's point about Dallas. Playing all those centers means they can truly play positionless hockey with the forwards and any of the forwards can cover like a center going back. This is a real good advantage. We've got responsible wings, but they simply aren't centers. Having a lot of centers is not a problem.

[mnfaninnc]

8 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Give Rossi Ohgren or Yurov instead of Johansson, and you have a killer second line.

Both Freddy and Johansson can get buried in the A. If you're filling the roster spot with an ELC, it's about a wash.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Tough loss to the Kings. With 40% of the Wild's cap not taking the ice, it certainly puts them at a disadvantage. Sounds like the Kings have gotten healthy lately and they took advantage of a weakened Wild roster.

[mnfaninnc]

For the past few seasons, the Wild have gone through Evason's training camps. He was generally light on the vets and hard on the kids. To climb the ladder, you had to clearly defeat the vet, of which you had little chance to do unless there was a roster opening. I wonder how Heinzy runs a training camp? Will he be open to a free competition for spots?

This is a part that I have not liked about Evason. I do understand that it's a long season and keeping as much tread on the tires for the vets can be helpful, but when you've got a pipeline like we've got, the kids deserved a chance to unseat the vet. 

My hope is that Heinzy will be fairer in this, and maybe even run a little longer camp. It would also be nice if Heinzy sat down with even the kids and explained to them the opportunity they have in front of them and the absolute need to bulk up. This offseason is really important for almost every prospect, and they simply don't get to take it off and play golf and do other fun stuff. They really need to focus on their careers and come into camp in the strongest/best shape of their lives. 

It is also important that they realize that with almost $15m in cap penalties, they offer a great value to an organization who needs overperforming value in their players. Daemon Hunt and Carson Lambos really need this talk in ALL CAPS. So does Spacek even though he is at least another year away. He could eventually replace Spurgeon if we go in that direction. And please, get a defensive coordinator that can help these guys grow! Right now, I do not believe there is a guy in Iowa who can really coach these kids up.

[Protec]

If Spurgeon or Rossi were traded, there should be a fair return.

What you can get for either guy is my question? Spurgeon is elite but aging after injury. Rossi was passed over and finally proving to be an NHL player but the ceiling is unknown.

The problem I see most, is that both guys don't make the Wild bigger or harder to play against. They contribute but in a smaller, less physical way. 

Are the Wild/Guerin looking to move away from that and being the smallest team in the Central? Or are they truly happy with the depth on defense or at center. Do they count on Fred or Yurov or Heidt to fill those roles? Could they be looking at RasmuKampu for a 4C slot?

[raithis]

39 minutes ago, Protec said:

If Spurgeon or Rossi were traded, there should be a fair return.

What you can get for either guy is my question? Spurgeon is elite but aging after injury. Rossi was passed over and finally proving to be an NHL player but the ceiling is unknown.

The problem I see most, is that both guys don't make the Wild bigger or harder to play against. They contribute but in a smaller, less physical way. 

Are the Wild/Guerin looking to move away from that and being the smallest team in the Central? Or are they truly happy with the depth on defense or at center. Do they count on Fred or Yurov or Heidt to fill those roles? Could they be looking at RasmuKampu for a 4C slot?

This is the only reason I would trade either of them.  It would have to be for a player that would be an upgrade.

For Spurgeon, this player would also have to be a RHS, larger AND stronger, younger, and if not at the same production, that he be a player who is an NHLer now but has a trajectory to be around Spurgeon's level in less than 2yrsif not already there.

For Rossi, this player would have to be 21-25, larger AND stronger, be a top 6 NHLer at Rossi's level now or better, be at least 50% or better at faceoffs, and would look like he hasn't reached his ceiling.

If we had to throw in a draft pick or prospect in, I'd be fine with it, but how much would depend on what we were getting.

That all said, I honestly don't think we get a return that would be what I would consider an upgrade unless someone specifically likes the player AND wants the pick or prospect, something that seems unlikely.  Most teams hold on to the players that would be upgrades, meaning we'd come out worse off.

What teams would likely be willing to give is draft picks or prospects, but none of those help us quickly and all set us back even further with more unknowns.  Unless, there is a trade that upgrades us in the short term, all this means we shouldn't trade them - mainly for all the reasons Tony and others already cited.

[mnhockeyfan03]

Spurgeon and Rossi should definitely be traded if they can.  Don’t ask for to much for Spurg as the cap space and ability to use that towards other players would be enough.  This team needs to get much bigger and stronger.  Against any of the larger teams they just get pushed around.  You saw that last night against the Kings.  Going into the corners a Kings player would just push our small wild player down and away like a pesty fly.  Also they need to be careful how much they sign Faber for.  He is not worth $8m a year.  Do a 3 year bridge deal at $4-5 per.  Once this team has Hartman, Foligno and Freddy G as their 4th line then they will be good.  Until then it will just be the same team year in and out. 

[Patrick]

100% Agree. Rossi just tied Gaborik's rookie year goals with 18. It would be borderline insane to move on from him. It speaks volumes about the direction of the franchise that Rossi isn't getting A LOT more attention.  Subtract Kaprizov, Boldy and Faber and Rossi would be the best rookie we have seen in 20ish years.  It's too bad BG gave NMC to all the old guys. Outside of that unforced error I believe the Wild are in great shape for the next 5 years.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

48 minutes ago, raithis said:

For Rossi, this player would have to be 21-25, larger AND stronger, be a top 6 NHLer at Rossi's level now or better, be at least 50% or better at faceoffs, and would look like he hasn't reached his ceiling.

I don't think it's likely the Wild would trade for that type of player. Much more likely in my mind they would trade for a high level player around 28-30 years of age where Rossi's youth would be a key component the new team is looking for, and I think it would be more likely that would happen leading into 25-26 rather than next season because the other guy would likely have a larger cap hit.

It's all just speculation. There probably isn't a good reason to trade Rossi this year, but lots of people(fans) seemed to be done with him last year, and I imagine Guerin may have considered it as well prior to the summer of work Rossi put in.

That being said, Rossi does only have 14 points(7G, 7A) in 38 games since Christmas, so it's not like he's been lighting the lamp frequently in 2024.

[Protec]

If there's an idea to go bigger & stronger, you would trade Rossi or Spurgeon when you estimate the value and return are highest. It's possible after next season both guys could look great. It's possible with some regression both guys could become less valuable trade pieces. If you have already decided bigger is better than you'd be gambling with the timing.

Both guys could have effective, even great seasons but they're not getting much bigger or heavier to play against. If that is a concern for the GM, and I think it could be, will Guerin look at the big picture and do unpopular moves like this? They did well to get Faber and Chisolm ahead of other teams who tried to claim him. Could the Wild have their eyes on RFAs or prospects who are similar? 

Having played okay without Spurgeon, it's a proof that life for MN can go on without their elite undersized defenseman.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, raithis said:

For Spurgeon, this player would also have to be a RHS, larger AND stronger, younger, and if not at the same production, that he be a player who is an NHLer now but has a trajectory to be around Spurgeon's level in less than 2yrsif not already there.

For Rossi, this player would have to be 21-25, larger AND stronger, be a top 6 NHLer at Rossi's level now or better, be at least 50% or better at faceoffs, and would look like he hasn't reached his ceiling.

🚨🚨🚨

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!

reads the headline this summer. 2 deals Guerin has been able to pull off:

1. Jared Spurgeon is traded to Columbus (how they weren't on his list nobody knows), for David Jiricek.
2. Marco Rossi in another move is traded for Anton Lundell.

How would you feel about those deals? As a purely fictional hypothetic headline, would either of those have you happy, sad, indifferent? 

On the one hand, you've got a topish pick who got sent back down to the A, and on the other hand, you've got a larger center about the same age. Would either of those be considered the "right deals?" 

Please don't comment that neither other team would do it, just for argument's sake, let's just say they did. I, like you doubt heavily that either team involved would do it. But, isn't this the kind of thing we're talking about?

[Dango]

What would be expected from Rossi stat wise ,  im thinking  22-25 goals  ,22-25 assists  ,  Johnathon Toews averaged about 28 goals and assists throughout his career so i dont expect Rossi to equal  that yet anyways   maybe 3-4 years from now when the team has more flexability .

[Dean]

Rossi is granlund 2.0 . Granny had Temuu sellanne saying he was the next great one . It  didn’t work out that way. We’ve read this story before. Koivu -granny. Ek - Rossi. . Waiting around for undersized center with lots of hype that doesn’t live up to it. Just wasting time . Rossi is a good player but imo he’s not a top 6 center on a playoff team. It’s taken years for teams to figure out granny isn’t also. That’s why he’s on sharks and wasn’t  traded for a playoff run.  I agree with wild if there thinking of trading him. . Get what you can while his value is high. I don’t see him matching up to the top centers around the leauge . His demeanor reminds me of granny so cut bait . 
   As far as spurg. I’d love to see him traded to get out of the contract and start rebuilding the d core around Brodin and Faber.  He’s an undersized defensive defenseman on the wrong side of 30. . He needs his body to do his job an I don’t think he can take it anymore. This season proves this  speedy undersized team can’t take hits. They drop like flys when someone bumps them. Spurg isn’t offensive and if his body can’t take the punishment then hes  not defensive. So every year the excuse will be Spurg got hurt. Plus what good does a captain do if he lives on ir. . So yeah trade him but I don’t think it will happen. Billy won’t trade his friend. That would be embarrassing for both . Plus Billy would have to admit he was wrong. Billy pounds square pegs in round holes . He doesn’t admit sh_t. . On top of that the return would be embarrassing. Spurg, his contract and health  wouldn’t get much unless it was at trade deadline. That’s not happening with his contract . 
    I hope the wild see the writing on the wall with Rossi and trade him. Same with spurg but I doubt that one . LA proved once again the wild aren’t close to a competitive playoff team. Everyone knows how to beat wild, especially in a series. . Let the wild dance around then punch them in face. Once they start hitting wild , half the team goes into fetal position and the other half lose their minds. F-ing embarrassing. Little kids getting bullied while big brother makes fool of himself. 
   I get others will use reg season stats or analytics to say both players  are needed. To me those reg season stats mean nothing. Anyone can find whatever nugget to make a point. It’s interesting info but tells you nothing about the type of player they are in playoffs. The goal is to win cup. We need playoff type players to do that. Not regular season entertainment. I don’t care if kappy gets hat trick against sharks. Do it to La. , Winnipeg, St. Louis, Nashville , etc in games with meaning .  Oh yeah he can’t because his supporting cast  can’t  handle size and strength due to Billy’s roster construct. . 
     If the wild run back this team it will be another wasted year . Wasting another year to find out Rossi isn’t the answer and that the vets are fading fast . More holes are being created waiting on youth to fill the holes you have now .  Sounds like the last 20 years. This clown show needs to change course on this roster . A few more undersized over hyped kids isn’t going to do it. More Pr fantasy land is all the wild have. 

[MNCountryLife]

I am a big fan of Spurgeon.  He seems to do all the right things.  With Spurge and Brodin out Faber is the only D man we have left that is able to consistently defend top line talent and transition the puck stick to stick up the ice.  You don't win games with only one of these on your bench.  

[Tony Abbott]

41 minutes ago, Dean said:

Rossi is granlund 2.0 

Marco Rossi has as many goals as Granlund did in his first 150+ games, so I wouldn't agree with that.

[Protec]

8 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

Marco Rossi has as many goals as Granlund did in his first 150+ games, so I wouldn't agree with that.

I think the point might be more that in the long run, a smallish center who scores 60-80 points isn't pushing around other team's top centers to win a Cup. If that is the conclusion, then the waiting and hoping is probably unwise.

[Tony Abbott]

5 minutes ago, Protec said:

I think the point might be more that in the long run, a smallish center who scores 60-80 points isn't pushing around other team's top centers to win a Cup. If that is the conclusion, then the waiting and hoping is probably unwise.

Even then, Granlund's not a center. Rossi's playing center better than Granlund ever did. 

I also want to push back that Rossi's smallish. He's short. I don't think he's small. He controls possession. He gets to the dirty areas. There are a lot of differences compared to Granlund, Rossi certainly plays bigger than his size.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

16 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

Marco Rossi has as many goals as Granlund did in his first 150+ games, so I wouldn't agree with that.

Yes, Granlund was more of a setup man than goal scorer. He had 39 assists in his first 90 games compared to Rossi's 18 assists in 89 games the last 2 years. Rossi has had about twice as many assists as goals in most of his seasons since his draft year, so he likely is more similar to Granlund than his current stats suggest, but if he is more like Daniel Briere than Granlund, that could obviously be a very useful player.

[Protec]

I'm not necessarily advocating a trade, just that there's a theme or pattern from Cup winning teams. Experience mixed with youth, but depth and build for playoff grind is important. When we look at Spurgeon, Rossi, NoJo, Fred, and Wild players like Zuccarello who all have skills or qualities you want, but together don't make up an imposing enough group, you gotta ask the question.

Even Knudi, do you build with these guys or do you try to upgrade with similarly skilled players who are bigger, harder players? 

Isn't it also true that if the Wild have successful drafts, they'll need to let some assets go to? Let's say Heidt outshines Rossi and Knudi at camp? That's not really a problem but it could present a challenge. I.e. where do you commit the money & contracts?

[Fezig]

The only reason you trade Rossi is because you need a defenseman capable enough to fill the skates of a traded / retired Spurgeon. 

[Protec]

1 hour ago, Fezig said:

The only reason you trade Rossi is because you need a defenseman capable enough to fill the skates of a traded / retired Spurgeon. 

Not the only reason. If the Wild can trade both guys for futures and plug in cheap or young defense, that would work. At the same time, the Wild should get bigger and limit guys like NoJo or Fred as soon as possible.

Personally I'm most offended by NoJo and I can't believe Bill Guerin isn't totally frick'n pissed because he gave the guy a new contract and the Swedish neck-beard just took full advantage and is doing close to nothing. What surprises me and what I don't like about Guerin, is he certainly has guys he likes and others he doesn't. That is a fault for sure, because NoJo will be a total waste unless he pulls his head out of his ass, for a contract year next season. Hard to imagine, but if Guerin isn't pissed, I don't know what he's thinking at all. Neck-beard value?