Article: What Can the Wild Get For Duhaime, Dewar?

[Luke Sims]

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[Citizen Strife]

Get what you can.  See if other GMs want to be stupid.

[mnfaninnc]

I wouldn't be impressed with 4th rounders, but who says we need them in the 2024 draft? 

I'd be willing to get 2026 2nd rounders when some of our kids have already moved up to the NHL level. 

Typically, each year out gets you one round better. So, you'd have to wait, but you'd get the better selection. What kinds of teams might do this?

Teams where they don't have much assets the next 2 years in draft capital. Teams that have come out of nowhere this year and are not particularly deep for a playoff run. 

At least, if I were Shooter, this is where I'd target. The other option is trying to pick off a prospect they really liked in the last 2 drafts. These would be guys who aren't near ready yet and may still be playing in jrs.

Also, one other item, while this article focuses on Duhaime and Dewar, what are we going to do with Firstov?

[Pewterschmidt]

"Dewar and Duhaime are similar players."

Disagree.  Duhaime is a smaller less effective version of Foligno, with a similar inability to make hockey plays.  The Lafferty 5th rounder compare has managed expectations.  Now I think we should be happy for a return above a 4th for Duhaime.  A 4th rounder is the expectation at this point.

Dewar is smaller but much more equipped to make hockey plays (aka offense).  Given the flashes he's shown and his youth I'd like to keep him for one more year.  See what he can do next season, trading him at next years TDL if he's expendable.

 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

7 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

"Dewar and Duhaime are similar players."

Disagree.  Duhaime is a smaller less effective version of Foligno, with a similar inability to make hockey plays.  The Lafferty 5th rounder compare has managed expectations.  Now I think we should be happy for a return above a 4th for Duhaime.  A 4th rounder is the expectation at this point.

Yeah, Duhaime is also 2 years older. Dewar potentially still has some development ahead, and playing him with Shaw and/or Khusnutdinov could deliver better results than he gets with Duhaime.

Duhaime was a 4th round pick and a low skill guy, so a 4th rounder for him now seems reasonably good. Dewar was a 3rd round pick with some skill and I wouldn't let him go for less than a 3rd rounder as a return.

Dewar is definitely more valuable for the Wild, and I'd like to see him on the ice with Mason Shaw again, but if they get offered a 2nd rounder for Dewar, the Wild have enough talent in their prospect pool that I'd probably have to let him go for that return.

[Willy the poor boy]

Nothing like not showing up when you need one...What a dud. So much for the culture change. The team packs it in in the most important game of the season. 

[B1GKappa97]

At this point I would take a bag of pucks for each 😠

[Luke Sims]

2 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Yeah, Duhaime is also 2 years older. Dewar potentially still has some development ahead, and playing him with Shaw and/or Khusnutdinov could deliver better results than he gets with Duhaime.

Duhaime was a 4th round pick and a low skill guy, so a 4th rounder for him now seems reasonably good. Dewar was a 3rd round pick with some skill and I wouldn't let him go for less than a 3rd rounder as a return.

Dewar is definitely more valuable for the Wild, and I'd like to see him on the ice with Mason Shaw again, but if they get offered a 2nd rounder for Dewar, the Wild have enough talent in their prospect pool that I'd probably have to let him go for that return.

All true.

[MacGyver]

Are we really in a bargaining position? Teams know we need to make room for the next Fedorov and Konstantinov that are coming. BG has a history of taking whatever is offered and hope for the best. 

[Dean]

Maybe the coach shouldn’t come out before the  biggest game of season and say it’s not a big deal. They have lots of games to go. Yeah go win 5 more games then every team your chasing  with 20 to go . Ridiculous.  Then to have hey Anthony , talk about how every wild player has had the best season and they can  do things no other nhl player can do is even more ridiculous. Listening to the  blatant pr machine of walz while watching a bunch of babies who don’t want to work or get hit is so Minnesota hockey . Just ridiculous! 
    They need to clean house on some of these low character players who don’t feel the need to show up for games. They need to bring in some size because they just can’t hang with bigger teams. Like the whole central division . I’m glad Marat is coming and hope he’s good but another 5’9 guy isn’t what this team needs.  They can’t defend the middle or get to the middle. They can’t even defend themselves let alone their teammates.  This so called speed team can’t beat strength.  There’s nothing wrong with smaller players but a team of them is . 

[B1GKappa97]

1 minute ago, Dean said:

Maybe the coach shouldn’t come out before the  biggest game of season and say it’s not a big deal. They have lots of games to go. 

I mean I get why he was doing it. Obviously you don't want guys to grip their sticks too tightly just because its a big game. It is definitely a bad look when they don't show up to play playoff hockey in essentially a playoff atmosphere after you downplay the importance though. 

Turns out they haven't tuned out Hynes! 

[Protec]

Nashville has zero guys under 5'11". Dallas, zero under 5'11". Winnipeg, one guy @ 5'11", zero under 5'11. STL has three under 5'11" one is Torey Krug, who's kinda a unicorn on defense like Spurge.

The Wild have 8 players 5'11" or smaller. Not sure if that seems like an obvious theme to you guys, but it's worth pointing out given MN can't handle any of those teams.

 

Is Dewar or Duhaime putting the Wild over the top? Probably not. Is there a market for those guys? Maybe, but is it gonna net a huge gain? I too think Dewar can fit in the long-term. We'll see what Knudi can do in North America, but do the Wild intend to win a Cup beating big teams like Vegas with 90% NA players and just one guy under 5'11"??? The cap penalties are a handicap, but it's painfully clear the Wild are small and easy to push around. When they shrivel up or throw in the towel mentally, does it really surprise anyone? There's some guts and toughness on the Wild roster but it's not enough to overcome the obvious.

 

[Willy the poor boy]

I just hope Middzy didn't hurt his right hand last night...

[Dis-allowed display name]

Oh yeah?  Charlie Stramel and his few goals will fix that!

[Imyourhuckleberry]

12 minutes ago, Protec said:

Nashville has zero guys under 5'11". Dallas, zero under 5'11". Winnipeg, one guy @ 5'11", zero under 5'11. STL has three under 5'11" one is Torey Krug, who's kinda a unicorn on defense like Spurge.

The Wild have 8 players 5'11" or smaller. Not sure if that seems like an obvious theme to you guys, but it's worth pointing out given MN can't handle any of those teams.

You aren't measuring these teams equally, so it's hard to know what to make of it.

For other teams, you include only guys under 5'11". For the Wild, you include all guys 5'11" and under. The Wild had a bad game against Nashville in this one, but played decently against them in the other 2 games. The goal differential for Wild vs. Nashville on the season is 10-9 in favor of Nashville.

Nashville has 4 players 5'11 or shorter. It's certainly true that the Wild have more.

[MrCheatachu]

Honestly, Duhaime has been putting on a masterclass of how to be a guy who want's to move to a contender.

1. Stories in the press about how great of a locker room guy he is (see: Athletic article on Wild player polls)
2. Being the only player on the ice the past couple games who's looked like they've gived a damn (dude is on a point-per-game pace the past two games)
3. Log solid time on the kill
4. Skate your ass off at all times

Sounds like the scouts for a number of clubs have been to Wild games the past couple.  The way the guy has been playing the past couple weeks, he's definitely been noticeable in a good way.

Maybe I'm setting myself up for a disappointment...

[Dean]

I do get why coach was saying the Nashville game wasn’t a big deal. It makes sense for a normal team but not one that is always looking for an excuse. Nashville canceled a u2 team concert because they were losing a lot. Now they are on a heater. The wild don’t give any effort for 20 games and they get to go on vacation, cancel practices and skip morning skates .  This is the entitled team coach is dealing with. So don’t help them with excuses. 
    One of the problems I’ve seen this year is Freddy s contract is really going to hurt team next 4 years . He is taking opportunities away from others because of that contract. He has been given More opportunities than any wild player in history of franchise. No other player has been given more un earned opportunities than him and he’s not done anything with it . He’s played 1st 2nd 3rd 4th line center and wing for years now and hasn’t found a line he helps. He makes every line he’s on worse and yet because of his contract he’s taking that opportunity from others to do his job better . If he was on a two way or league min then coach would bench he or send to minors. Because of that contract coach now has to figure out something for him to do because Billy signed him . Not because he’s good at his job.  4 more years of Freddy’s line sucks 

[bisopher]

Why the Wild won't make the playoffs this year, in one sentence:

Their current record against the top four teams in the Central (DAL - WPG - COL - NSH) is 1-9-0.

[Lovehockey]

It is very good discussion on what we can get for Dewers. But when I look at our roster not sure if it is mater much.

maybe I am wrong but to me we have very good first line, we have very good but aging Zuccarello, we have young Rossi who I think reach his ceiling (I really hope I wrong here). And we have Folino who are proving what he can for not big and not physical Wild team. 

after this everyone else is expendable replaceable. I understand  we cannot have 20 + players being star but to be team in conversations we need 3-4 bigger players, and at least 2 more skill players.

can this done? With contracts we were given unlikely. The best bet move Hartman/Freddy to 4th line and build second (maybe partially) and third with prospects (don’t see any options for trades).

[Protec]

3 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You aren't measuring these teams equally, so it's hard to know what to make of it.

For other teams, you include only guys under 5'11". For the Wild, you include all guys 5'11" and under. The Wild had a bad game against Nashville in this one, but played decently against them in the other 2 games. The goal differential for Wild vs. Nashville on the season is 10-9 in favor of Nashville.

Nashville has 4 players 5'11 or shorter. It's certainly true that the Wild have more.

Just using that as a breakpoint. Equal to or greater than VS. equal to and less than. The Wild are NOT a big, strong, fast team that wins draws and has good special teams. They're not the worst in the league perhaps, but they're a small, average team in many metrics, that get pushed around. They can't defend as well against a bigger team. The 8 seconds later goal last night was a great example. Lose the draw. NSH forwards win all the physical battles and they hammer in a greasy one, while the Wild players appear shocked.

It's time, in my opinion to admit this year is lost. Sure there's games to play out but the situation is pretty hopeless if your ultimate goal is a Cup. Guerin himself said a round one win is not the ultimate goal. It looks like the WIld won't even reach round one to lose.

2 hours ago, bisopher said:

Why the Wild won't make the playoffs this year, in one sentence:

Their current record against the top four teams in the Central (DAL - WPG - COL - NSH) is 1-9-0.

100% agree. This is the coffin nail for the Wild. Who cares if you can beat Boston or FL for a few wins. The chances of MN winning a series against a Central team is near zero.

[Backwoodsbob]

45 minutes ago, Protec said:

The 8 seconds later goal last night was a great example. Lose the draw. NSH forwards win all the physical battles and they hammer in a greasy one, while the Wild players appear shocked.

If I remember right, didn't they have a similar issues with face off against Dallas last year?

[Burnt Toast]

The players know what a beat down they’re facing on any given night better than any of us. My guess is that’s why some of the secondary players on the Wild coast around a lot. I think management has tried hard to build a tough team but the bigger skilled guys cost more money. We have some small tough guys, a couple big not too skilled guys and we have Ek. 

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, Protec said:

Just using that as a breakpoint. Equal to or greater than VS. equal to and less than. The Wild are NOT a big, strong, fast team that wins draws and has good special teams. They're not the worst in the league perhaps, but they're a small, average team in many metrics, that get pushed around. They can't defend as well against a bigger team. The 8 seconds later goal last night was a great example. Lose the draw. NSH forwards win all the physical battles and they hammer in a greasy one, while the Wild players appear shocked.

It's time, in my opinion to admit this year is lost. Sure there's games to play out but the situation is pretty hopeless if your ultimate goal is a Cup. Guerin himself said a round one win is not the ultimate goal. It looks like the WIld won't even reach round one to lose.

While these things are true, I am not against the smaller roster. The main trouble is the way the Wild play, they get in these funks where they are perimeter only. We've got to start playing down the middle. Perhaps this is a problem with the coaching change in the middle of the season.

Essentially, Heinzy was pretty much forced to use Evason's system and make minor tweaks. It won't be until training camp where he can implement his own system....if he lasts that far. There is a very serious chance that the Pens miss the playoffs, and if that happens, it could be the end to Mike Sullivan over there. I believe if Sully becomes available, Guerin scoops him up quickly. My speculation is that Heinzy will be moved upstairs in a quasi-promotion, but will remain with the team. I believe Guerin likes his hockey mind. I could see him as AGM and over Iowa. 

I know I get kidded a lot about bulking up, but that is the reality with the players we've got. With so many shorter players, they have to be strong to get through traffic, compete in the dirty areas, etc... But, yet, they're coming in at 170-180. That won't get it done. They need to be short little tanks, take advantage of the lower center of gravity and be able to dart in and out like sports cars. It's not terrible to have a shorter team if they can do that.

Yet, our shorter/smaller team is not fast, nor particularly experts at edges. There's far too many button hooks once the zone is entered. There's very little taking it to the net. And they do get bounced around way too often. Strength/weight will conquer some of that, but it's the combination of this + edge work. Quite honestly we need a lot of speed which we don't have in all directions of the compass + strength to compete and not get knocked around. 

That is why I was pleased to see that Dino had grown 2" and put on at least 11 lbs. That is why I was pleased to see the same from Petrovsky. There's not much difference in 5'11" and 6', even in reach. But, those 5'11" guys can easily get under 6'-6'2" guys and knock them around. I think where the real comparison should have been in Protec's model is in the weight class area. The question would be, how many guys are playing >200 lbs. We don't have many of those guys.

[Willy the poor boy]

19 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

Honestly, Duhaime has been putting on a masterclass of how to be a guy who want's to move to a contender.

1. Stories in the press about how great of a locker room guy he is (see: Athletic article on Wild player polls)
2. Being the only player on the ice the past couple games who's looked like they've gived a damn (dude is on a point-per-game pace the past two games)
3. Log solid time on the kill
4. Skate your ass off at all times

Sounds like the scouts for a number of clubs have been to Wild games the past couple.  The way the guy has been playing the past couple weeks, he's definitely been noticeable in a good way.

Maybe I'm setting myself up for a disappointment...

Russo say's quite a few teams are interested. He also mentioned (not sounding very confident) how he hopes BG will leverage that, parroting something I've been saying for a couple years now.