Article: I've Been Watching Hockey Forever, and I Know When It's Time To Tank

[Sean Flick]

View full article

[Citizen Strife]

"See what you can get for any of those guys not named Faber, Boldy, Wallstedt, Rossi, and Kaprisov"

Add Ek to that list.

 

[mnfaninnc]

Sean, it looks like we're in the same age group! My how things have changed! Grain Belt to Sprite, in my case, it's a Sprite Zero!

The conundrum that is watching the Wild this season. I found myself completely conflicted watching the Wild-Pens game on Saturday morning (yes delayed). I was blacked out of the Blackhawks game.

I have really been wanting to finish between 6-8 for the draft. I think we'll get a great talent that way. However, when the Wild are on the ice playing, I am taking a coach's/player's mentality of playing (watching) to win. Am I sad if they lose? No, not really, I am filled with the hope of a top prospect. But, when watching, while emotions are tempered, cheering for the goals and thumping my chair for the goals against still happens. 

So, like you're saying, anything that isn't tied down needs to be presented on the front lawn for sale. We need positions/opportunities lined up for the kids the last 20 games or so. We need to see what Dino looks like. We need to give Yurov hope that he can sign and play here immediately. We need signal to Firstov and Ohgren it's time to come back. 

This only happens if Shooter can trade out what I would consider some dead weight. Fleury played absolutely brilliantly, but Fleury won't help us much going forward unless he's coaching. He deserves another shot at a cup! Goligoski and Merrill are doing us no favors, and if Merrill isn't moved at the TDL, to Iowa he should go and we'll see if he's claimed. Should Goligoski choose to stay, I picture a name plate on one of the ProssBox chairs with his name on it and a serving of nachos placed on the table right at gametime. 

Duhaime is a player I like, but Duhaime can help another team. Maroon also. Bogosian also. We need to see what Chisholm and Hunt bring even if they are undressed by superior forwards. They have to learn. We need to see what Beckman can bring and he needs to see his need for strength. Should Shawzy get a chance? I'd still leave him down. I'd give that chance to Dino. I'd also look heavily into the college free agent pool and see if we can't find another Sturm or defender and most specifically, a goalie!

Does this mean tank? I'm not so sure it does. I think the right word for it is transition. Chicago, AZ, Buffalo, Edmonton all chose the tank method. San Jose and Anaheim are added to that list this year. CBJ could be, but Ottawa is just having a terrible year. So, a youth movement is not the same as a tank. The results may look similar, but it is rooted in transition not losing on purpose. 

I also remember watching the 1980 USA games, as much as I could on tv. I remember the 1st 2 periods being blacked out against Russia (or, at least most of the 2nd). I remember listening to it on the radio while playing ping pong in the basement, taking a few breaks. I remember getting excited for the players coming to the North Stars after the Olympics were over. 

I remember that influx of young talent and the youth that made that an extremely fun team to watch. I remember being stacked at center with Bobby Smith, Tim Young, and Neal Broten all of a sudden. I remember a solid undrafted player in Dino Ciccarelli finally getting a chance and Steve Payne having such a solid run in that post season. Those were fun times filled with hope. 

I think we've got another opportunity to see the influx of the younger players make a huge impact on the club again in these next 2 seasons. It's time to embrace the transition, we all knew it was going to have to come!

[Up North Guy]

Really well written and enjoyable. Also, it is spot on.

[Will D. Ness]

Right now our best option to tank is to play Goligoski and Merrill.

[Dean]

Great article. For a life long fan this year has been a turning point. It’s obvious this team is not a playoff team or near it. Let alone win a round. 
    I get your point on knowledgeable fans. I see it a little differently. I think Canada and the east coast have knowledgeable fans. We’re kinda in the middle. We spend more time with kids hockey than invested in the mediocre wild . We keep going to games when the team doesn’t want to show up and play. That wouldn’t fly in other markets in my opinion. We get sold a bill of goods every year and believe it unlike in Canadian markets.  We have no media that isn’t a pr machine for the team . Everything is always rah rah it’ll be better next year we’re so great. 
    Bill may or may not know what it takes to build a Stanley cup team. However doing it is another story . You can’t build a team if you can’t manage cap. You can’t build a team if you think bottom 6 guys deserve clauses. You can’t build a team with only your friends. 
    If the wild were smart they would pay attention to Philly. Jones and brier are building the right way. They got there hard ass coach to implement a good system. They are in the playoffs yet still going to sell because they have there eye on the prize. The Stanley cup! Not like Craig. His prize is the two home games for  ticket sales in playoffs. That’s all he cares about. 
     This year has definitely been a turning point. The extensions signaled bill has no clue how to negotiate contracts. That we are going to have the same mediocre team for 4 more years. Tuning into a game will be another 4 years of fred, Hartman, zucc, foligno .playing for nothing. Just taking up a roster spot . 
   Bill has done nothing good this year except for getting bogs . When Montreal is getting a 1st for Monahan , bills extensions look terrible.  It’ll be a trade deadline of shoulda , coulda , woulda because bill handcuffed himself. That isn’t a good gm. Maybe a mistake but a bad one! This team won’t get better until it gets better leadership 

[Burnt Toast]

Thanks for the article! IMO BG’s hardest years as Wild GM aren’t behind him, they’re coming, quickly. Locking up BF, MR, at fair value, getting KK resigned, then integrating the top prospects asap. He’s got to move quickly because the Wild need to push while the newer players are still on their ELC’s. If everything goes smoothly, having the cap space to keep what should be a very competitive team will be another hurtle. If the Wild can add a couple top 10 picks these next 2 years…. well wouldn’t that be something. 

[mnfaninnc]

I just took a look at the prospects. 

1. Heidt seems to be losing some steam. He's still at 1.7 ppg, but that's down from 2 and you could call it a slump.
2. Haight, Kumpulainen, Petrovsky all are still hovering around the ppg mark.
3. Yurov got to 47 points, so he's tied Tarasenko.
4. Firstov with a couple of apples and he's at 17-17-34.
5. Beckman scored in Iowa.
6. There has been some defensive fallout. With the acquisition of Will Butcher, it looks like Kyle Masters was the odd man out and was sent down to the E. He is performing well there. Lambos and O'Rourke seem to be the best of the kids right now, and Spacek is getting time. Simon Johansson is also getting time, but one has to wonder if his timer is about to ding? He's a -24, and that's Addison territory. 
7. Stramel continues to not put up points. I sure hope something clicks for the kid!
8. Dino had an assist last week too.

[MrCheatachu]

22 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

This only happens if Shooter can trade out what I would consider some dead weight. Fleury played absolutely brilliantly, but Fleury won't help us much going forward unless he's coaching. He deserves another shot at a cup! Goligoski and Merrill are doing us no favors, and if Merrill isn't moved at the TDL, to Iowa he should go and we'll see if he's claimed. Should Goligoski choose to stay, I picture a name plate on one of the ProssBox chairs with his name on it and a serving of nachos placed on the table right at gametime. 

Duhaime is a player I like, but Duhaime can help another team. Maroon also. Bogosian also. We need to see what Chisholm and Hunt bring even if they are undressed by superior forwards. They have to learn. We need to see what Beckman can bring and he needs to see his need for strength. Should Shawzy get a chance? I'd still leave him down. I'd give that chance to Dino. I'd also look heavily into the college free agent pool and see if we can't find another Sturm or defender and most specifically, a goalie!

1. Interesting to consider if Flower is looking to get into coaching after his run.  Clearly the dude loves the game and loves the boys in the room, but who knows if he has what it takes to be a good coach.  Typically, I think players generally take a couple years between retirement and heading to the administrative side.  What I think we do know, is that Billy would move mountains to give Flower whatever role in the org he wanted to try out.
2. I thought I read somewhere that Maroon recently had back surgery and was out 4-6 weeks?  Not sure what that does for his value, but I would assume it isnt increasing him towards a contender unless it's Tampa and they are going to LTIR him until he magically recovers right as the playoffs start...
3. Bogosian - talk about a successful reclamation project.  It would be absolutely criminal if he isn't gone at a price significantly better than the 7th Billy spent to acquire him.
4. Which brings me to the rest of our defense.  I know we see Merrill and Goose as huge liabilities, but nobody from Iowa has stepped up and taken a spot from them.  Chisholm is going to get his shot, but for these roles it's going to be a performance based call.  If you cant take a spot away from Merrill or Goose, not sure if you make a good argument for being in the NHL.    That said, I think Goose still has something left in the tank if you can provide him sheltered minutes.

[mnfaninnc]

6 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Which brings me to the rest of our defense.  I know we see Merrill and Goose as huge liabilities, but nobody from Iowa has stepped up and taken a spot from them.  Chisholm is going to get his shot, but for these roles it's going to be a performance based call.  If you cant take a spot away from Merrill or Goose, not sure if you make a good argument for being in the NHL.    That said, I think Goose still has something left in the tank if you can provide him sheltered minutes.

With Hunt, I think he got sent down because of roster space and that we could without waivers. I think his play was better than Merrill and Goose, but it wasn't so much better that you would risk losing Merrill to waivers, or maybe even Mermis. 

If it were me, though, I'd find Merrill a home with someone and try to find one for Goose. Bogosian deserves to be on a playoff team. If Guerin is still holding on to an outside shot at playoffs, he probably keeps Bogosian until deadline day. You're right, he has been a huge reclamation project, and played well with elevated minutes. 

[Will D. Ness]

46 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

 risk losing Merrill to waivers

There is no risk, just hope.

[Will D. Ness]

Bogosian has shown his value.  I think somebody in need would pick him up for a 5th or so.

[Pewterschmidt]

18 hours ago, Dean said:

We have no media that isn’t a pr machine for the team

This is one drawback to the Ryan Carter/john king podcast getting Bought out by Wild.  It’s no longer independent.  It’s an extension of Wild mktg dept.  (ie zero coverage of Guerin investigations).  Even Russo lapanta podcast is not independent (lapanta gets a check from Wild).  Judd’s hockey show is independent

[cloddish]

19 hours ago, Dean said:

We spend more time with kids hockey than invested in the mediocre wild . We keep going to games when the team doesn’t want to show up and play. That wouldn’t fly in other markets in my opinion. We get sold a bill of goods every year and believe it unlike in Canadian markets.  We have no media that isn’t a pr machine for the team . Everything is always rah rah it’ll be better next year we’re so great. 
    Bill may or may not know what it takes to build a Stanley cup team. However doing it is another story . You can’t build a team if you can’t manage cap. You can’t build a team if you think bottom 6 guys deserve clauses. You can’t build a team with only your friends. 
    If the wild were smart they would pay attention to Philly. Jones and brier are building the right way. They got there hard ass coach to implement a good system. They are in the playoffs yet still going to sell because they have there eye on the prize. The Stanley cup! Not like Craig. His prize is the two home games for  ticket sales in playoffs. That’s all he cares about.

Spot on breakdown of our hockey team. You will never hear hardly anyone critical of this team on anything media related in Minnesota that is not Brandon Mileski's "Beyond the Pond" once a week. Minnesota media is always an apologist for this team and it has become incredibly annoying that we can never hold this team to a higher standard. This team's PR/marketing goal isn't to win a cup, it is to keep selling out every night at any cost and that will always be good enough for the front office.

[FredJohnson]

I've Been Watching Hockey Forever, and I Know When It's Time To Tank

Only if Gary "The Penguin" Bettman allows it.

[Will D. Ness]

So on the tank watch front the Wild have moved down to #8 by winning the last 2 games.  If we beat Vegas tonight then we will probably move up another 2 ahead of Arizona and Seattle to #10.

Calgary is on the tank train but their team is not cooperating.  I do think eventually we will surpass them.  Capitals still might try to make the playoffs especially if #8 keeps scoring so not sure what is going on there.

Even though everyone knows it is time to tank, let's face it... we probably will not be able to gain much without major sabotage from FO.  

Also, bringing in young defense could actually make us better.  Chisolm is probably an upgrade and we all seem to agree Hunt is an upgrade.

[Pewterschmidt]

16 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

BG’s hardest years as Wild GM aren’t behind him, they’re coming, quickly.

The can't miss prospect need to make the big club in top 6 contributor roles (eventually).  This will demote Fred, Foligno, Hartzy into bottom six grinder roles, where they now belong.  If any of the apathetic old core is still in top six roles (ever) then BG has failed.  Can't hide behind the stealth rebuild/cap hit hell much longer Benito.  Now Brackett's pick's need to come thru.

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, cloddish said:

Brandon Mileski's "Beyond the Pond"

Would listen to this show if it weren't for Michelletti.  It's a tie between his "tile saw" voice (can someone tell him to turn away from Mic when he coughs) or his lack of any insight.  ie - Pat what do you think?  Pat: It's hard to know....Thanks Pat.

[MNCountryLife]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:51 AM, Citizen Strife said:

Add Ek to that list.

Are you kidding?  He is probably our best player.  We let him sail the Wild better get a host of picks including a couple of #1s.  He is also a steal right now because of his low cap hit.  We lose him and this team won't win 30 games next season.

[cloddish]

3 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

Are you kidding?  He is probably our best player.  We let him sail the Wild better get a host of picks including a couple of #1s.  He is also a steal right now because of his low cap hit.  We lose him and this team won't win 30 games next season.

I think you misunderstood "Citizen Strife"...they meant add Ek to the list of names NOT to be bargained away.

[MNCountryLife]

4 minutes ago, cloddish said:

I think you misunderstood "Citizen Strife"...they meant add Ek to the list of names NOT to be bargained away.

Whoops.  I think you are right.  I read that wrong.  My bad.

[Protec]

Wild currently drifting rudderless and forlorn.

Guerin has lost all flexibility. The team is so far from contending, you'd have to be nuts to think this is the group that can run the table and both make the playoffs and go deep with average everything. Lose 6 of every 10 face offs, special teams aren't special, and depth is missing altogether. Draft picks and prospect pool has lost lustre cause three of them have already joined the Wild team that is just 500%. 

It's not as bad as the Fenton year but momentum appears to be lost. Regroup required, especially if the Wild get pounded by Vegas tonight.

[manbearpig]

4 hours ago, cloddish said:

Spot on breakdown of our hockey team. You will never hear hardly anyone critical of this team on anything media related in Minnesota that is not Brandon Mileski's "Beyond the Pond" once a week. Minnesota media is always an apologist for this team and it has become incredibly annoying that we can never hold this team to a higher standard. This team's PR/marketing goal isn't to win a cup, it is to keep selling out every night at any cost and that will always be good enough for the front office.

Locked on Wild Podcast can be critical but almost to a depressing point that makes you not even want to listen sometimes, same goes for Judds hockey show

[mnfaninnc]

On 2/12/2024 at 10:53 AM, Will D. Ness said:

There is no risk, just hope.

I have to disagree. I haven't liked Goligoski or Merrill in our lineup, but, having a vet defender who can step in and hold down the fort has some value. Merrill can do that. He's got a larger frame, he is willing to be kind of physical but won't throw the big hit, he plays a simple, conservative game. 

That is precisely the type of depth defender a playoff team needs. But, why are we afraid of him being claimed? Well, because Guerin is not convinced that Hunt is that much better at this present time. You can sit Merrill for a long time, watch mold grow on him, and rust hanging off his shin pads, but you put him in and he's a notch below what Prosser could do. My bet is he doesn't complain about ice time either. He's a good #7,8. 

I don't think we're getting a 2nd round pick for him, and it'd probably be a late round pick, but his value is being able to sit there and not get worse because he's not playing. Hunt, on the other hand, as with probably Lambos, need to be playing....somewhere. 

We were fortunate to pick up Chisholm for free. Even if you get a stack of giftcards, at least you'll get something for Merrill.

[Will D. Ness]

29 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I have to disagree. I haven't liked Goligoski or Merrill in our lineup, but, having a vet defender who can step in and hold down the fort has some value. Merrill can do that. He's got a larger frame, he is willing to be kind of physical but won't throw the big hit, he plays a simple, conservative game. 

That is precisely the type of depth defender a playoff team needs. But, why are we afraid of him being claimed? Well, because Guerin is not convinced that Hunt is that much better at this present time. You can sit Merrill for a long time, watch mold grow on him, and rust hanging off his shin pads, but you put him in and he's a notch below what Prosser could do. My bet is he doesn't complain about ice time either. He's a good #7,8. 

I don't think we're getting a 2nd round pick for him, and it'd probably be a late round pick, but his value is being able to sit there and not get worse because he's not playing. Hunt, on the other hand, as with probably Lambos, need to be playing....somewhere. 

We were fortunate to pick up Chisholm for free. Even if you get a stack of giftcards, at least you'll get something for Merrill.

I don't know.  I think Hunt is actually better than Merrill.  He has more speed.  Better hands.  Better skill.  I don't know what BG is doing but I've been bothered by it for a while now.  

Hunt needs ice time and that ice time is worth more than any return Merrill could bring.  Bogo was worth a 7th to put it in perspective.