Article: Guerin Saw All the Cards In the Original Addison Trade and Still Folded

[Tom Schreier]

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[Protec]

These moves are all kicks at the can while on a budget. Jost, Steel, Addison, Sturm, Kakhonen, Pitlick, Guadreau, Khaira, Mojo, Bogosian, etc. are all efforts to get guys who will fit.

It worked with Middleton and Guadreau. Kinda with Mojo last season's end. The team isn't in a full rebuild or trying to add a final piece to win a Cup. 

It's a dynamic situation which is not easy to master and I think we can be glad Guerin is working. Not sitting in his ass or throwing up his hands in disgust. The Wild are struggling but hopefully they can work through it. What other option do they have? Suter, Parise, and Fiala were all impossible keeps. The change isn't a full breakdown but the Wild needed to take a step back to move forward. Right now, I think the lack of big steps by young guys is more detrimental than the retention of solid vets. Dewar, Duhaime, Boldy, Gus, and Addison were all expected to boost the Wild. They aren't doing nothing but they're not leading a youth movement either. 

Let's see the young guys really prove it and earn their money & positions as core guys...

[Citizen Strife]

Win now to me would be having no future cards to play at all (the Fletcher method).  Addison may not have worked out, but Guerin has yet to give away firsts or seconds.  He even gained one by jettisoning Greenway.  This season may suck, but keeping those golden tickets may pay off someday.

[Burnt Toast]

Wild management must believe in the older players they gave longterm extensions to. These extensions will be in effect after the buyouts starting in the 25-26 season. These players are full members of their core, hand picked over the last few years. These are identity, prioritized players for the Wild. Looks like we’re all going to have to wait a few years to see if that’s a good strategy for a deep playoff run or maybe even a SC. I sure hope so! 

[Pewterschmidt]

Positive results cover a lot of warts, but if this team continues to slide the whispers on BG will get louder

[Pewterschmidt]

Addy just had no dog in him

[mnfaninnc]

It's assumed that Addison became expendable because of our young defenders in the A. I think Lambos makes it soon, and he scored his 1st goal in the A recently. 

However, I think the real thing that made Addison expendable is probably Faber. Faber leapfrogged him on the depth chart late last year. You cannot argue that Faber hasn't been dramatically better than Addison this year. Because Faber worked out, you could see the 3rd pairing hole. Addison was simply too small and the odd man out. 

Guerin did have inside knowledge of Addison. Addison came here and played some nice offensive hockey for awhile in Iowa. But, the year before he was called up, he was demoted to 3rd pairing there too. Guerin was certain he'd learned as much in the A as he could, but nobody ever insisted or taught Addison how to play defense. Perhaps they tried and he just wouldn't listen?

Addy wouldn't bulk up, Addy wouldn't learn his gaps, Addy wouldn't engage physically. All of this adds up to Addy doesn't fit in. Maybe he fits in with San Jose, but here, he plateaued and wasn't really getting any better.

Now, some on here have thought that Faber can run the PP. I haven't seen this aspect in his game, but it's worth a try. Faber obviously has more offensive instincts than I thought he had.

[Beast]

We need defense to help our goalies.  So, we trade for a guy who can’t play defense and racks up penalty minutes to make the goalies face an extra attacker.

Solid logic, Guerin.  

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

49 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Addy wouldn't bulk up, Addy wouldn't learn his gaps, Addy wouldn't engage physically. All of this adds up to Addy doesn't fit in. Maybe he fits in with San Jose, but here, he plateaued and wasn't really getting any better

Addison spent all summer working out with the likes of Rossi. He was part of the young group that was seen out enjoying themselves together including Dewar and Shaw. He was down to 7% body fat and working out daily.

Addy's defense clearly improved this year from what it was last year. You can't expect a 5'9" dude to stand up 6' forwards or the like. You can't expect him to be something he just doesn't have the build for. In fact, statistically Addison is a far better defenseman than Bogosian in every metric including defensively in spite of his size.

I get it MNFan, you like the move for the sandpaper it brings. What sense does it make to ditch a developing young defenseman for an older, slower, player who is a proven liability on defense and even more so on offence though? 

[Dean]

No offense but IMO bill isn’t working hard . When I heard about those extensions my first thought was it’s back to the Minnesota wild country club . Bill did his work for next 2-5 years by signing these guys and giving them nmc s . Nmc s means you can’t even put on waivers or send to minors. . So he has nothing to do for 2-5 years with roster except for little things on the margins. Judd does the drafting and scouting. So Bill will spend all his time trying to find another30 yr old  Fred, mermis or letteri. Not what real GMs work on. Are those 3 even the best players bill could find for the money? Or is it because he’s friends with Fred from pit , letteri and mermis have family ties to Minnesota. Great grifting opportunity  on latter ..He repeatedly shoots  himself in the foot with every extension he’s signed and not one them looks good. So I don’t see hard work I see a new gm making tons of mistakes that’s going to make for hard work in future to fix . 
     IMO addy is a bust. He’s 23 and can’t play d . How many more years would he need to get you a 3 rd round pick . He’s Mike Reilly. We’ were never going to get anything for him. So if bill really thinks this team makes playoffs I get why he traded for bogo. 
    IMO bill has worked really hard to ruin this team. He’s broken kappy and sucked the life out of him by making him carry this team without getting him any help. He’s WASTED kappys prime with his ahl supporting cast.  Bill took an exciting up and coming team and made it small, old and slow with  nmc s . He worked hard to suck the excitement and hope out of this team. 5 years of Billy gets you another 5 years of old and slow with a sprinkle of a 20 th overall once in awhile that may or may not be a nhl player. 
Way to go bill. You’re a genius for making yourself and the team not have to work hard. They don’t practice or morning skate and you sign all your players so you can take a few years off . Winning culture! 

[Dean]

Does Merrill have a nmc? Is that why he’s never been sent down. I’ve got read up on who has them. That’s messed up you can’t even send them to minors if they’re not playing well or age well. Another unnecessary hand cuff ! 

[cloddish]

5 hours ago, Protec said:

The team isn't in a full rebuild or trying to add a final piece to win a Cup. 

So we are content to have another year of being a middling bubble playoff team with another early 1st round exit left holding another year's bag of a 20-ish round draft pick? Why do we keep paying old geezers to prop up this mediocre team?

If we are bad, can we just be bad for once?

Schreier is correct when he suggests, "If anything, Minnesota should use the next few cap hell years to see what they have in their farm system to contend before Kaprizov’s contract is up."

[Up North Guy]

2 hours ago, Dean said:

Does Merrill have a nmc? Is that why he’s never been sent down. I’ve got read up on who has them. That’s messed up you can’t even send them to minors if they’re not playing well or age well. Another unnecessary hand cuff ! 

No he does not have a NMC. He can be put on waivers and if he clears he can be sent down. If he is nothing but the 7th D then he should be sent down to save cap. At some point Goose will be back off LTIR and he does have a NMC or NTC.

[Beast]

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

It's assumed that Addison became expendable because of our young defenders in the A. I think Lambos makes it soon, and he scored his 1st goal in the A recently. 

However, I think the real thing that made Addison expendable is probably Faber. Faber leapfrogged him on the depth chart late last year. You cannot argue that Faber hasn't been dramatically better than Addison this year. Because Faber worked out, you could see the 3rd pairing hole. Addison was simply too small and the odd man out. 

Guerin did have inside knowledge of Addison. Addison came here and played some nice offensive hockey for awhile in Iowa. But, the year before he was called up, he was demoted to 3rd pairing there too. Guerin was certain he'd learned as much in the A as he could, but nobody ever insisted or taught Addison how to play defense. Perhaps they tried and he just wouldn't listen?

Addy wouldn't bulk up, Addy wouldn't learn his gaps, Addy wouldn't engage physically. All of this adds up to Addy doesn't fit in. Maybe he fits in with San Jose, but here, he plateaued and wasn't really getting any better.

Now, some on here have thought that Faber can run the PP. I haven't seen this aspect in his game, but it's worth a try. Faber obviously has more offensive instincts than I thought he had.

Faber doesn’t make Addison expendable.  They’re two completely different skill sets.

A lot of assumptions are being made about Addison.  Everyone is now saying he wouldn’t or couldn’t do this or that.  We have no idea.  

People just have different skill sets.  It takes a special kind of skater to defend like Brodin, Spurgeon, and Faber.  A guy not playing defense like they can (which almost nobody can) doesn’t mean they are unwilling to do it, or don’t understand what they’re supposed to do.  Same reason why a guy like Foligno doesn’t just go out and score 40 goals.  It doesn’t necessarily mean he is uncoachable or refuses to do it.

I think it’s debatable what’s happening here.  Something strange.  Addison is not a worse player than Bogosian or Klingberg.  Internal issues with Dean or other players?  Maybe.  Agent told Bill get me a more prominent role here or trade me somewhere I can play and earn a contract?  That’s probably the most likely scenario.  Probably more likely than a guy playing hockey his whole life and making it to the NHL as a defenseman refusing to try and play defense.

The one facet of this situation that doesn’t get talked about enough:  what an awful trade by Guerin.  The bad moves are adding up.  If anyone needs to be thrown under a bus, I’d nominate him over Addison.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Beast

[Dean]

Zucc - ntc , nmc … foligno- nmc…. Jo Jo - ntc…

hartman- nmc…. Maroon-ntc… Spurg -nmc … Brodin - nmc…. Gologoski -nmc … Freddy g - nmc, ntc. 
 
That is crazy. A nmc means no waivers or can you send them  to minors.  Vegas has 3 players with nmc. Eichel, stone petrianglo . Even if you could trade a player you already lose the value on them with that stupid nmc.. Who gives nmc to bottom 6 30 +year olds ?  There is no reasonable argument for giving Fred , moose, hartman  zucc or goose a nmc. I didn’t know the difference of nmc to a ntc until listening to 32 thoughts Yesterday.  That really makes me lose all respect for the job bill is doing.  So Fred in 5 years is on your roster like it or not. There is absolutely NO accountability due to Bills nmc /ntc handouts. What a joke!  He has terrible people advising him and has ruined this team. No one can give a legit reason Fred gets a ntc, nmc?  Bill is a fool for taking away any accountability.  The lazy players are paying him back for his foolishness. Unreal bill ! 
 

[Protec]

We might not like it but trading a smaller guy who gets pushed around and is not hard to play against for a cement-head with beard type is not nothing. We can debate the quality of the players but they are different kinds of guys. Guerin is making these decisions so in the end if they turn out to be dud-moves then hopefully he’ll learn and make corrections. 
 

I don’t know if it’s really that serious or something you fire a GM about it. The cap penalties aren’t nothing either. Yes, MN’s choice but living with that means they have expectations for proven players and young guys equally because everyone knows the roster is set. Two years of quality hockey in a row should be plenty of proof they CAN do it.

Let’s just pretend for a minute they didn’t sign Foligno, Mojo, or Khaira. Who could they have signed that would have made MN so much better? Goligoski is in his last year and Fleury too but what better plan could there be? I don’t think it’s that simple. If the Wild were 8-5 rather than 5-8 would it still be the same thing. At this point we just have to take our lot. The Addison Bogo day is sorta a nothing burger in the big picture.

[punch_cut]

14 hours ago, Dean said:

Zucc - ntc , nmc … foligno- nmc…. Jo Jo - ntc…

hartman- nmc…. Maroon-ntc… Spurg -nmc … Brodin - nmc…. Gologoski -nmc … Freddy g - nmc, ntc. 
 
That is crazy. A nmc means no waivers or can you send them  to minors.  Vegas has 3 players with nmc. Eichel, stone petrianglo . Even if you could trade a player you already lose the value on them with that stupid nmc.. Who gives nmc to bottom 6 30 +year olds ?  There is no reasonable argument for giving Fred , moose, hartman  zucc or goose a nmc. I didn’t know the difference of nmc to a ntc until listening to 32 thoughts Yesterday.  That really makes me lose all respect for the job bill is doing.  So Fred in 5 years is on your roster like it or not. There is absolutely NO accountability due to Bills nmc /ntc handouts. What a joke!  He has terrible people advising him and has ruined this team. No one can give a legit reason Fred gets a ntc, nmc?  Bill is a fool for taking away any accountability.  The lazy players are paying him back for his foolishness. Unreal bill ! 
 

Come on Dean. You took the time to look it up and you still didn't write down correctly. 

[mnfaninnc]

20 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

I get it MNFan, you like the move for the sandpaper it brings. What sense does it make to ditch a developing young defenseman for an older, slower, player who is a proven liability on defense and even more so on offence though? 

It's not just sandpaper, it's gap control, it's clearing the front of the net, it's being able to defend on a PK, it's being able to battle in the corners. For me, analytics points to strengths and weaknesses we should be watching, but the eye test says that Bogosian is a better defender than Addison ever will be.

But, Bogosian is simply the placeholder replacement as Lambos is not ready yet. I'd suggest that Hunt may have drawn even to Addison. Addison's reduction in body fat to 7% does not mean that he gained strength, it suggests he actually lost weight, but was conditioned better. My comparison to Ryan Murphy is actually pretty spot on. Murphy was a 7th overall pick, could skate like the wind but was just too small. We saw him for his cups of coffee, he was, well, about like Addison, maybe more willing to get run over. 

My prediction is that he does not make it in San Jose either, and is just as abused defensively. I never really felt like he was that good or special to begin with, though. He had some nice attributes, but it never seemed like he could put it all together.

[Will D. Ness]

What is it about Addison that warrants all this continued talk about him like he was some sort of mistreated and wronged future hockey messiah?  The guy was a late 2nd rd pick who was given the opportunity of a 1st rd pick and repeatedly failed to find the most basic level of competency of his position.  

I mean bringing up 7% body fat stinks like red herring.   Are we talking about a hockey player here or a model in a photo shoot?  

I don't get why so many people here are so invested in this guy.  He sucked.  He was given plenty of opportunity and guidance and failed to meet the basic standard.  If he is in the league next year, it will be for tanking purposes.

We got so many bigger fish to fry than the 2nd fiddle of the Zucker trade.

[mnfaninnc]

17 hours ago, cloddish said:

So we are content to have another year of being a middling bubble playoff team with another early 1st round exit left holding another year's bag of a 20-ish round draft pick? Why do we keep paying old geezers to prop up this mediocre team?

If we are bad, can we just be bad for once?

Schreier is correct when he suggests, "If anything, Minnesota should use the next few cap hell years to see what they have in their farm system to contend before Kaprizov’s contract is up."

I would rather do Tom's method too, and see what we have in the kids. They need opportunity. However, our opinion doesn't matter, OCL's does, and he wants to be invited to the playoffs. So, Guerin is a bit handicapped in this.

 

[mnfaninnc]

17 hours ago, Dean said:

Zucc - ntc , nmc … foligno- nmc…. Jo Jo - ntc…

hartman- nmc…. Maroon-ntc… Spurg -nmc … Brodin - nmc…. Gologoski -nmc … Freddy g - nmc, ntc. 

It's all in the fine print. Some of these guys have short term designations, some have nmc's turn into m-ntc's later. Essentially, any player can waive the designation but they have a say in where they get to go. To my knowledge, only Goligoski has refused to go anywhere (and he should have retired this summer and taken a front office job).

[Willy the poor boy]

32 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

 but the eye test says that Bogosian is a better defender than Addison ever will be.

 

The last game I saw was the Buffalo game. Bogo was throwing Greenway around like a rag doll most of the night.

The problem I have with the Addy trade was he was getting better (he was never gonna live up to the hype everyone was throwing at him since the trade, remember the Suter comparisons? He was gonna take his place). But I digress, what I didn't like was BG selling short once again. It's definitely a trend.

[Willy the poor boy]

20 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

 So, Guerin is a bit handicapped in this.

 

As was Fenton and Fletch, but they are still the butt of many jokes.

[mnfaninnc]

Fenton for other reasons. Fletcher sold off his cupboards and then had nothing. At least we can still look in the refrigerator and see some meat marinating almost ready for the grill!

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Will D. Ness said:

What is it about Addison that warrants all this continued talk about him like he was some sort of mistreated and wronged future hockey messiah?

Agree.  I would have rather BG rode him out (during these cap hell years) up until trade deadline with possibility of getting more than pack of gum in return, but not going to lose too much sleep.