Article: The Wild's Core Issue? Their Front Office Thinks Like A Coach

[Tony Abbott]

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[MNCountryLife]

You'll see that the Wild went out and acquired four of these players in just over four years: Nic Deslauriers, Rem Pitlick, Ryan Reaves, and now Bogosian

That is a pretty big statement in this article.  Not a good sign from our GM.  It represents a GM that doesn't understand that skill and productivity are more important than plastering someone against the wall.  Based on this... is the next questions that arise:  Is the team improving or getting worse?  Can we declare BG a failure?  Is the cap space the real issue?

[TCMooch]

Been saying it for awhile. Guerin sucks ass and is making this team worse

[Citizen Strife]

Leipold won't let the team get better.  If Guerin thinks like a coach, then Leipold thinks like a stockholder for a company and just wants all the money, quality product be damned.

Guerin still has some leash due to Rossi and Faber, but the season itself is a lost cause.

[Dean]

Addison is a bust just like Mike Reilly!  Our power play was and is terrible. We changed coaches because of it  Addy isn’t a power play stud. I’ve watched every San Jose game since trade  and he’s terrible in all aspects with top minutes and power play.. He was never going to get a good pick for you.   Bill identified he was a Mike and got rid of him for something we needed.. a big defenseman that doesn’t get pushed around unlike every other d man we have. 
   Lately and last playoffs Spurg looks like a kid carrying daddy’s hockey stick. He got destroyed by strength last night. Exactly why he needs a Middleton not a brodin as a partner. You’re starting to see it with Faber and Brodin . They are small and big teams take advantage of that..   Spurgs contract already looks bad. He’s not a great shutdown d man anymore. He’s a little kid getting bullied every game . His leadership gets you to the golf course quick. Not worth 8 mill ntc . He needs a big partner better than middles which we don’t have and can’t get. So bill getting bogo at least tells me he sees his weak our d core is. 
    I’m not saying  he needs to go get mindless fighters but he needs to get guys with strength and size. You can have guys with size strength and skill . This idea of a team full of little kids getting pushed around year after year is ridiculous. It’s fine for reg season but when the games get important and the space gets smaller, our little kids disappear .  Why can’t the state of hockey get some leadership from top down and build a legit team? Quit with the 30 yr old ahl ers and get real players ! 

[MacGyver]

2 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Leipold won't let the team get better.  If Guerin thinks like a coach, then Leipold thinks like a stockholder for a company and just wants all the money, quality product be damned.

Guerin still has some leash due to Rossi and Faber, but the season itself is a lost cause.

One thing Minnesota hockey fans have proven is the X will be full every game and season tickets sold out every year regardless of the product on the ice. It's PTSD from losing the North Stars. If we don't fill the seats and buy all the season tickets every year it could happen again. Leipold knows this. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

If Leipold will never let our organization take a step back or even rebuild on the fly we will always be mired in mediocrity.

The move of Addison instead of Merrill to pick up the dreadful Bogosian sealed this front office for me. I've been quite vocally critical of both Dean and Guerin at times but this move took the cake. 

Contrary to the opinions above I don't think we need to add weight and grit. We are the lightest team in the league but you know who else is? Colorado, Florida, Carolina and New Jersey. The only difference between us and them is they are getting younger while we continue to load up on aging vets. It is not a winning combination. If you want to play a lighter game you need to be faster but we seem to love bringing in older slower players. 

What it comes down to is playing a game that is suited to your roster. The fact that our coach hasn't looked at our roster and figured out that maybe we should stop emphasizing grit is so tone deaf. Getting the smallest team in the league into a grinding match is a losing combination. It results in plentiful injuries and losses. 

It is on Dean to get the best from his players, something he has not done. It is on Guerin to give him a winning roster, something he seems bound and determined to undermine. They are two peas in a pod in terms of the way they played and the mantra they expect. It does not work with the roster they have. Full stop.

[Greenbean]

Man, I really thought Guerin had a decent plan when he blew up fletchers failed aging team. He lost me when he replaced it with his own failed aging team. Maybe when Kaprizov forces his way out the door fans in this state will pull their heads out of their a$$'s and quit filling Leopolds pockets. #EMPTYTHEX

[Eddy]

Could anyone please define long term contracts for me I can’t seem to find any by the names of these players listed except maybe moose’s and Freddy but Freddy’s is so team friendly how could you complain and moose is only a 2 year no trade clause….sorry I don’t see where Tony’s coming from 🤷‍♂️ 

I will say Addi had many shots and we need someone that can play defense with some size NO team was lining up with anything better than a 5th which pretty much shows you his worth and the only thing keeping him did was block our young defenders that didn’t look bad being called up and force a bad decision at seasons end Bogo doesn’t. We didn’t need to waste any longer on Addison sorry hard truth we have a lot of defensive prospects and he wasn’t worth a bad contract. The merril argument is terrible btw because you’d need a team to want him 🤣🤣🤣

From what I honestly see you have some vets on team friendly deals for 2 years that will help transition yurov, Khus, Heidt, and possibly Height. To assume 4 outta these 4 walk into the Wild organization and our top 6 material would be phenomenal but a better bet is on 1 making the wild year 1 and 2-3 year 2 and from what I see there seems to be plenty of openings with 4 forwards and 3 defenders having there contracts expire at years end although dewar is restricted so he’ll get an another contract. 
 

This team doesn’t have the luxury of FA to fill out a roster due to cap penalties, so better to know what you have and transition a team into a winning culture then to watch KK97 walk and start over finding another superstar because if your gonna tank for 2-3 years that’s probably what your doing. Hard truth!

 

[MrCheatachu]

5 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

You'll see that the Wild went out and acquired four of these players in just over four years: Nic Deslauriers, Rem Pitlick, Ryan Reaves, and now Bogosian

That is a pretty big statement in this article.  Not a good sign from our GM.  It represents a GM that doesn't understand that skill and productivity are more important than plastering someone against the wall.  Based on this... is the next questions that arise:  Is the team improving or getting worse?  Can we declare BG a failure?  Is the cap space the real issue?

I'll defend the first two...Pitlick was a waiver claim, so the Wild gave up nothing for him.  He burned brightly (hat trick game) and then burned out so the Wild put him back on waivers.  Taking a flyer on a waiver claim and cutting bait on him the same season (after 20 games in a wild sweater) seems like EXACTLY what you want your GM to be doing after handcuffing us with the dead-cap.

DeLo was a TDL pickup after watching Foligno be the teams face-puncher.  DeLo literally stated his role was to keep Foligno out of the sin-bin because Foligno was too good of a hockey player to be off the ice with fighting majors/suspensions.  The wild were trying to go on a playoff run, and trading a 3rd for a guy (who they didn't resign) to keep Foligno on the ice seems reasonable.

And, for what it's worth, at least BG wasnt dumb enough to offer the $1.35Mx3 years that Toronto gave Reavo.  That's roughly 2 to 2.5 years too long...

[JRR]

Biily needs a wake-up call the Coaching  has lost the room,  you could see 97 roll his eyes on the bench as the coaches gave advice. Evason is dumbfounded and the assistants are ineffective to put it nicely. 

[Outskated]

Guerin gets his marching orders from Leipold.  'Ol Craiger has zero interest in 'losing' or 'tanking' as that would cost him millions in gate receipts and corporate sponsorships.  I am not a STH, but hit games here and there when we can fit them in with my kid's hockey schedule.  With the product we are witnessing right now, I am not wasting my money going.   

But here's the real truth.  We have all of these prospects coming, but none are either here or ready to play full time in the NHL.  It's usually always a better idea to let these kids bake in the AHL for awhile also unless they are Brock Faber.  Guerin messed up signing Foligno to a 4 year deal with NMC, but signing the 29yr old Hartman for 3 years and old man Zuc for 2 years is not going to block any of these guys coming up that aren't even here yet.

[M_Nels]

14 hours ago, TCMooch said:

Been saying it for awhile. Guerin sucks ass and is making this team worse

You've been saying it for awhile but from what I've seen you've never laid out why. Genuinely curious why you think he "sucks ass" instead of just saying it without anything to back it up. Again, I don't agree with moves he's made but think the prospect pool is strong and the future will be bright after the buyouts.

[Luke Sims]

When Guerin broke up the Suter-Parise Country Club, it was not about purifying the locker room for the betterment of the team. Guerin just wanted to make his own country club. Guerin dug his grave and had his buddies grab the shovels. Now, he has to lye it in. And so do all the fans.

[kapislife]

All the dumb contracts for old, washed, players told me everything I needed to know about Guerin.

[MNCountryLife]

10 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

I'll defend the first two

I thought the article was interesting. Most of my comment was stated with questions as I am undecided as to how I feel about BG.  I felt a lot better about him last spring.  I've thought that most of his little moves were good and improving the team in small increments.  The beat down against Dallas in the playoffs was eye opening.  What did I see:  Filip was solid but no Oettinger.  Our PK style was flawed and we lacked scoring punch.  None of that was addressed.

BG's signings this summer surprised me.  There have been a few things that I have definitely not liked.  We should have found a way to sign Fiala.  You just do not let snipers like him go... they are way too rare and they win games for you.  You also do not let go of high quality D-men like Dumba.  Dumba got a lot of haters on the boards but Dumba was extremely solid and had a way of sparking the team with a big check when we needed it.  He is definitely an above average defender.  I accepted the loss of Fiala because I thought it meant we got to keep Dumba.  We lost both.... and it is showing this year.  We only have 1 true goal scorer and our PK is still a mess which is a sign that our coach DE may not be capable of resolving real strategy problems.

Okay... I've kicked on BG pretty hard.  But there are some positives with him as well.  He managed to snag Brock Faber.  Faber has been fantastic ...especially for a rookie... he may vie for the best defender to dawn a Wild jersey.  So while we lost Fiala we did gain a prize.  Rossi's development has been transforming.  We also have several centers in the pipeline that should find a way on this roster in the next couple of years.  We have Walstedt coming up as well.  There is a glimmer of hope with our prospect pool. BG has done a lot of good things here.  Are we as fans simply not patient enough to let the rebuild of the roster take place before we execute the GM?  I'm not sure about that.  BG has shown a preference to veterans over rookies.  What good is a prospect pool if you don't develop them.

As for this year... I think the players know that the PK system is flawed and they no longer believe in it.  That fear of the PK is leaking into every aspect of our game.  Dean seems unable to fix it.  If he can't.. this team will not only miss the playoffs.. expect to see them at the very bottom.  I have little hope that Dean can fix it.

[MNCountryLife]

2 hours ago, Outskated said:

But here's the real truth.  We have all of these prospects coming, but none are either here or ready to play full time in the NHL.  It's usually always a better idea to let these kids bake in the AHL for awhile also unless they are Brock Faber.  Guerin messed up signing Foligno to a 4 year deal with NMC, but signing the 29yr old Hartman for 3 years and old man Zuc for 2 years is not going to block any of these guys coming up that aren't even here yet.

That is the only reason that makes those old guy signings make sense.  It gets us out from under the dead cap and the young guys should be entering the NHL cycle.  If that is truly the plan... than BG may have hope.  

[TCMooch]

4 hours ago, M_Nels said:

You've been saying it for awhile but from what I've seen you've never laid out why. Genuinely curious why you think he "sucks ass" instead of just saying it without anything to back it up. Again, I don't agree with moves he's made but think the prospect pool is strong and the future will be bright after the buyouts.

I don't think he has any long-term vision for this team. I also think his signings and trades show he values grit and veteran experience more than trying to set this team up for success in the long term. Between him and Evason, we're going down a path to getting the oldest NHL team and a strong collection of bottom 6 forwards and bottom 4 dmen.

We are already in the top 10 for oldest teams in the NHL and I see us trending more and more to the top of that list in the next 3-4 years.

His Zucker trade is extremely questionable now seeing as he let Addison go for next to nothing only to sign a journeyman dman with size and grit in this place. The only thing not making this trade a flat dude is the promise (not guarantee) of Carson Lambos.

Foligno and Zuccarello signings were absolutely foolish. I can excuse Zucc but I can't overlook both.

Acquiring Bogosian and Maroon is stupid. He only did this because he has a certain type of player he wants on this team and that certain type is absolutely NOT "young and possessing skill".

I think his drafting has been fine but how much is that him and how much is that actually Judd Brackett.

That enough reasons for why I hate Guerin as GM of this team? To put it more plainly: do I believe this team is better off with Guerin or without? I 100% think its without.

[mnfaninnc]

Quote

The solution? Last week, it was more short-term, coach-like thinking from the GM. Out goes Addison, a puck-moving 23-year-old with a track record of putting up strong numbers on the power play. In comes Bogosian. The Wild could've easily moved or waived Jon Merrill (31) or Dakota Mermis (29) to create room for Bogosian. But both players are older and perceived as more dependable. Instead, they sacrificed the younger, learning-on-the-job Addison.

I'd say this is the most telling statement of the article. As Dean describes up top, Addison is a bust just like Mike Reilly. I prefer Ryan Murphy as my comparison. 

I'll give Addison credit that he paired down his BFI to 7%. But if that's what he did, he completely missed the directive. He was supposed to add a bunch of muscle on top of this. He added nothing significant. 

Addison's play, while slightly improved was still brutal in his own end, even though it was harder to see with others looking worse, but Addison was not an NHL defenseman at this point. 

But, as the above statement says, and a paragraph later suggests, a longterm outlook on Addison wasn't to let him stay, it was to get what he could for the player and cut bait because this was not a good fit for him. Shooter then gained a player who was the right fit, a big nasty RHS defender which we haven't had in a long time. And this was the right fit for the team because a player like this has been missing and come playoff time we pay the price for not having him.

This is also not about trading experience for youth, this is about recognizing that the undersized Addison was too much of a liability in his own end, at 5v5, and anywhere else not on the PP to be effective. And even on the PP, he was barely better than a forward when defending needed to be done. 

I also find it a bit funny that there really isn't a mention of the expectations of Leipold in the article. The owner's expectations are to be invited to the playoffs every year. This is who Guerin works for, not us. Addison likely also needed the change of scenery, because it was obvious that he wasn't fitting in here. He was never a game changer, and his points QBing the PP were mainly basic passes that could be made by anyone. 

I'm not fully sour on Addison. I thought his effort was better this season, but he had a long way to go. Overall, I thought Mermis outplayed him, and essentially took his spot. It would also appear as if Spacek and Masters are having difficulty in the A. I'd suggest they do not make Addison's mistake and they get into the gym and bulk up. Both have only played 7 games. I hope they're using their scratch time wisely!

[M_Nels]

1 hour ago, TCMooch said:

I don't think he has any long-term vision for this team. I also think his signings and trades show he values grit and veteran experience more than trying to set this team up for success in the long term. Between him and Evason, we're going down a path to getting the oldest NHL team and a strong collection of bottom 6 forwards and bottom 4 dmen.

We are already in the top 10 for oldest teams in the NHL and I see us trending more and more to the top of that list in the next 3-4 years.

His Zucker trade is extremely questionable now seeing as he let Addison go for next to nothing only to sign a journeyman dman with size and grit in this place. The only thing not making this trade a flat dude is the promise (not guarantee) of Carson Lambos.

Foligno and Zuccarello signings were absolutely foolish. I can excuse Zucc but I can't overlook both.

Acquiring Bogosian and Maroon is stupid. He only did this because he has a certain type of player he wants on this team and that certain type is absolutely NOT "young and possessing skill".

I think his drafting has been fine but how much is that him and how much is that actually Judd Brackett.

That enough reasons for why I hate Guerin as GM of this team? To put it more plainly: do I believe this team is better off with Guerin or without? I 100% think its without.

Thanks for expanding and clarifying, always like to hear reasoning instead of just "they suck" without any basis. That is definitely enough reasons.

Maroon & Bogo are just stop-gaps, if he extends/signs one of them to term ala Toronto w/Reaves then yeah I'll be in the fire Billy camp but 1yr rentals in cap hell is no big deal IMO.

Moose signing is puzzling and I don't really agree. I'm thinking that is Billy's solution to the 1yr grinders he is signing now. Once the young guys come up Moose will be a 4th liner/locker-room/grinder guy IF he can stay healthy. That's actually my biggest qualm with his deal is the term, hard for a guy that plays his style to stay healthy/effective that long, especially with his injury history already. Zucc is signed until the buyouts come off and doubt he will be extended.

I think Judd has done a fantastic job of scouting and finding guys but Guerin has the last say. Now whether any of their picks work out is yet to be seen but IMO after the buyouts come off the books the future is looking brighter, will have young guys coming in and cash money to throw around for high profile F.A's. Dean-O's seat is already warm and I doubt he'll see anything past this year (hopefully), his message has gotten stale and we need some new blood in the whole coaching staff.

[Quebec1648]

Owner Craig Leopold gave Guerin an extension and promotion, so Guerin appears to be doing what the owner wants. If the owner is pushing a win now mentality like he did with Fenton, then I can understand Guerin making a short term game plan, as opposed to a long term plan. 

With that said, Guerin did persuade Leopold to allow him to buy out Suter and Parise, so I see no reason he can't get rid of aging guys like Foligno.

The Wild should clean house on defense, by trading Spurgeon while he still has some value, then get what you can for the others. I would keep Faber and Brodin, but move out the others. Rebuild the defense corps, with Brodin as the Veteran leader, and then Faber and some Iowa guys or future draft picks to fill the other spots.

Faber and Brodin both work well together, so that can be the top pairing, while using this year's draft pick (likely a high pick) to acquire a top shelf defenseman. If you did that combined with existing draft picks, the defense will be much better.