Article: The Zach Bogosian Trade Is Bill Guerin Doubling Down On Grit

[Protec]

7 hours ago, Lovehockey said:

The only thing is I am absolutely sure that Addison is happy to be out. Wait for more young players not willing to play for MInnesota. 

That's not really how it works. Go around the leauge and look at other teams and their prospects. The guys who make it to the NHL rather quickly are two kinds, high-end prospects for teams who are building or players who step up to NHL level and contribute right away. There's plenty of young players held up in "development" and do you think a GM really cares about giving everyone gold stars or putting the best team on the ice? Just sayin, I don't think other MN prospects are sour that Addison moved out. Spacek, Masters, Hunt, and Lambos are all hoping they'd get three years worth of NHL opportunity and see the example of what happens when the team asks you to do something and time runs out.

Addison's 3-year experiment in MN where he was the worst, schmedium-size defenseman is history. He got NHL time three different seasons. He was a one-faceted player and never evolved in that length of time.

The Wild have had a rough start but there's plenty of reasons. GM in the pros is not an easy job. The Wild have maintained a series of small gains from a management perspective and have been a good team after the buyouts. Are they at the top of the power rankings according to a bunch of writers, no. Does that mean anything after a dozen games, sure for Vegas and Boston but let's not pretend the Wild got the entry to the NHL Vegas had, or has had the prototypical 1C until this season like Boston.

There's plenty not to like about this year's start but this organization isn't lost, or screwed. The sideways shift, and old placeholder players is a concern.

I think Mojo sucks again but he's not the only reason the Wild have lost more than they've won this year. Multiple players have had crummy starts or been hurt. The guys who got extended aren't really the ones who are the problem. 

Special teams haven't got the job done. No confidence or synergy has been built. Zero momentum. Lack of discipline. There's only one way out of this and it's to put your head down and work. Period. Nobody is gonna do it for you or bail you out. Blue collar, disciplined hockey is the baseline. Special teams execution and production is the next priority. Team defense. While the Wild aren't Vegas, they're better than this. They just need to put it ALL together.

 

[M_Nels]

9 hours ago, Lovehockey said:

Boldy was drafted by Falton and not BG. Rossi is ok but nothing exceptional. He actually is FIala replacement in the Guerin view but he is not even close. Everyone else (even Walstad) are unproven. So nothing makes any sense 

My mistake on Boldy, thought he was Billy’s. 
 

I don’t see Rossi as Billy’s view of a replacement Fiala, I’d say that’s more Yurov or Ohgren My whole point of the reply was to a poster that said we are drafting guys that only “fit Deans & Billy’s image” (talking about grinders) which is blatantly false. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by M_Nels

[Up North Guy]

17 hours ago, Lovehockey said:

Rossi is ok but nothing exceptional. He actually is FIala replacement in the Guerin view but he is not even close

And how good was Fail his rookie year? Was he the same as the guy that signed with LA? Rossi may never be as good but comparing the two's performance this year is not realistic.

[Dango]

Once the cap hits are gone we can get a solid Fiala replacement  and a good center  im thinking maybe a Nylander if hes available depending what type of contract he signs before then . 

[Lovehockey]

8 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

And how good was Fail his rookie year? Was he the same as the guy that signed with LA? Rossi may never be as good but comparing the two's performance this year is not realistic.

Yes agree. But my point is different . With Kaprisov, Boldy, Ek and Fiala you had a 4 elite players. Add couple years of Zuccarello and you have 

team that can win the games, be entertaining and compete. With this u could wait coupe of years till  salary cap situation improves. And u lucky with the others than u even could have some success. This could have happened but it did not. And yes this is just one player but he would make a huge difference. BG bet on a Rossi to be Fiala replacement (in terms of contract and BG attitude) but Rossi is not. And maybe he will (which I highly doubt) but Wild had what they needed. Everybody else (I am talking about offense) would be additions and subtractions, none of other players makes any significant difference. 

[MacGyver]

I don't view Rossi and Fiala to be the same type of player and not interchangeable. Fiala is considerably faster and a better puck handler at least for now. Rossi has shown a dramatic change from last year. Can he sustain and improve upon it remains to be seen. Had he not shown this level of improvement this year I think he would have been on the same BG list as Addison. 

Kaprizov is showing signs of coming around but I think the league has seen enough that they are catching up to him. He really needs to work on hanging onto the puck though. I don't think he's a 100 point player this year. When they show him on the ice after a whistle he looks frustrated and unhappy. His entire hockey career has been on elite teams where he is the elite player. His NHL experience has not been that. He did not come over here to play for the Minnesota Wild he had no choice in that he came here to put the Stanley Cup on his resume. I don't see him sticking here regardless how much money BG can throw at him after the cap hell is over. It's not about the money for Kaprizov, never has been. But given the agent he has it will be contentious negotiations for sure either way.  The only way he stays is if this team is knocking on the door for a Cup and will that happen in two years? 

Edited November 12, 2023 by MacGyver

[Up North Guy]

11 hours ago, Lovehockey said:

Yes agree. But my point is different . With Kaprisov, Boldy, Ek and Fiala you had a 4 elite players. Add couple years of Zuccarello and you have 

team that can win the games, be entertaining and compete. With this u could wait coupe of years till  salary cap situation improves. And u lucky with the others than u even could have some success. This could have happened but it did not. And yes this is just one player but he would make a huge difference. BG bet on a Rossi to be Fiala replacement (in terms of contract and BG attitude) but Rossi is not. And maybe he will (which I highly doubt) but Wild had what they needed. Everybody else (I am talking about offense) would be additions and subtractions, none of other players makes any significant difference. 

You are assuming that Fiala wanted to stay in Minnesota. I do not believe he did. He wanted a place with brighter lights and media attention. We could not provide that. I am not sure Rossi was drafted to be a FiFi replacement and don't see how you can make that statement. They are different kinds of player at very different points of their careers. Rossi was drafted because he was a very high scoring center in juniors. Hopefully he will become a very high scoring center in the NHL for the Wild as his game matures.

[Protec]

13 hours ago, Lovehockey said:

Yes agree. But my point is different . With Kaprisov, Boldy, Ek and Fiala you had a 4 elite players. Add couple years of Zuccarello and you have 

team that can win the games, be entertaining and compete. With this u could wait coupe of years till  salary cap situation improves. And u lucky with the others than u even could have some success. This could have happened but it did not. And yes this is just one player but he would make a huge difference. BG bet on a Rossi to be Fiala replacement (in terms of contract and BG attitude) but Rossi is not. And maybe he will (which I highly doubt) but Wild had what they needed. Everybody else (I am talking about offense) would be additions and subtractions, none of other players makes any significant difference. 

There's a lot here that we can agree on, but Fiala was not going to resign in MN. The demand for him and his RFA status was an impossible scenario. The Wild had a plan and got good assets back. That part is pretty much beyond argument because the alternative would have been to move players out and be committed to Fiala long-term at simply too high a cost.

 

We all agree the cap crunch is costing us a high end forward, nobody loves that but the Wild have some talent. These roster players need to be better. #97 has already set the bar for himself. Foligno could chip in a goal more frequently. Johannssonn, and Duhaime are also kinda non-factors more than I think GMBG would like. The Wild are just going to need more production by committee.

[Protec]

8 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Had he not shown this level of improvement this year I think he would have been on the same BG list as Addison. 

Yup. There just isn't endless waiting for players. You gotta move on at some point. As an asset or as a personal matter, the best thing is to give a player a new start. Better one year too early than one year too late.

Since GMBG showed up, he's moved players out and none have gone on to be standouts elsewhere. They've all gone on to be just what we thought they were. Soucy being the worst loss in the expansion, and to a lesser degree Talbot has been good this season. Still, that was unique because his Wife talked-sh*t and the Wild had Wallstedt in the future plans.

[Quebec1648]

Guerin knew Addison from his time with the Penguins and traded Zucker to get him. Therefore, Guerin should take full responsibility for Addison not finding success with the Wild. Maybe Evason didn`t always give Addison the right opportunities, but Guerin could have stepped in and demanded Evason do more to help out Addison.

Either the Addison who played for the Wild was totally different from the Addisson who played in the Penguins system, or Guerin did a terrible job with talent evaluation. 

Guerin builds the roster, so I place the blame on him, when the young talent fails to produce results. Many folks like to blame coach Evason, but I start with the GM.

[Lovehockey]

21 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

You are assuming that Fiala wanted to stay in Minnesota. I do not believe he did. He wanted a place with brighter lights and media attention. We could not provide that. I am not sure Rossi was drafted to be a FiFi replacement and don't see how you can make that statement. They are different kinds of player at very different points of their careers. Rossi was drafted because he was a very high scoring center in juniors. Hopefully he will become a very high scoring center in the NHL for the Wild as his game matures.

agree on both