Article: The Wild Are Becoming An Immovable Object

[mnfaninnc]

I don't know what all is involved in the WAR stats, but I'm a little surprised that those 4 guys only contribute 1.79. I assume this is last year's stat, and that all 4 were probably better the previous year? I also believe they will be better, collectively, this year.

Speaking of resigning, Winnipeg just signed a pair of 30 year olds to $8.5m contracts. I don't believe they will age well. 

I don't so much mind the NTC clauses, but it's the NMC clauses that bother me. Some of the NTCs can be buried in the A. Yes, it costs the team more, but if an ELC beats out a vet, it's pretty much just a roster switch then. 

On blockbuster deals, though, Tony's got an excellent point. Flexibility is important, especially if you're bringing in some elite talent. Are these guys considered our core though? I don't think they are, they're just solid pieces that contribute in leadership/locker room/character that Shooter thinks is important in team chemistry. 

With the 4 guys, would it be better to look at the resignings collectively? Instead of $4 + 4 + 4.1 + 2.1m = $14.2m, what if we just looked at the $14.2m for 4 solid roster guys? I think the way Shooter is looking at it is he paid these 4 guys and expects that together they will bring him $14m worth of solid success. The sum of these guys may end up being greater than their $ worth. Of course, the main question will then be, will they age well?

 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

(Pavelski missed multiple games)

Who else was banged up for the Stars?

The Wild had JEE, Shaw, Kaprizov, Hartman, Zuccarello, and Foligno all either out of the lineup or quite a bit below 100% due to playing through injury.

When they put Boldy and Johansson together last year, it was clear that Eriksson Ek was the one center on the team who could make that work. Johansson is a major liability on defense if you don't have an excellent defensive center.

Kaprizov at 75% is not nearly as good as Kaprizov at 100%, and Shaw had become an important part of the roster by the time he went down. Pavelski can be a very impactful player, but he's not more impactful for the Stars than JEE is for the Wild, and he was technically available for more of that series than JEE.

Johansson will be replaced in the top 6 by a high skill player before 25-26 begins.

[vonlonster67]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Can go a step further and add Shaw, Duhaime & Dewar to this list as well.

I didn't include them, but agree they deserve note.

I was pointing out great or elite talent that would cause a team to displace a regular vet/line in the top nine (or resign to a contract) and have a daily, consistent impact in scoring, defense/offensive 200 foot game.

If your just good, and not scoring a point a night or impacting the game somehow, your probably not going to displace anyone and at best be on the 4th line. So is  your talent you bring to the team belong or even fit on the fourth line.

Shaw and the Dewey brothers are specialist in our PK and do very good as our 4th line disrupting the flow. They are all like little Wild Energizer bunnies out there with an attitude.

[Protec]

The Wild might be a little bit of an immovable object but they aren't too far from an unstoppable force either.

We don't think the Wild will go 82 with no injuries do we? If a guy goes down before playoffs, don't you all think Beckman, Khaira, or Walker will wanna prove themselves when their number comes up? I'm just not worried. When the old guys fizzle out there will be young players to replace them. The timing is going to be a moving target on the way.

I'm seeing the Wild's moves and signings as mostly positive. Trajectory is good, and the young players are developing. That's what that means, taking the time to play some seasons and build the NHL strength. Yurov and Knudi don't need to rush in and they won't by default now. They'll have moderate but not overwhelming pressure. The Wild aren't gonna rush things, they don't need to. Again, prospects should prove it over time, not like Addison or others who want an easier path. That's an instant ticket to Guerin's doghouse if you asked me. He's the GM trying to put the best NHL team out there, not the most participation awards and gimmysums to rookies who look good in the AHL.

[vonlonster67]

6 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

It is more the reality for our prospects. We are sending the message if you want a shot go elsewhere and that will kill our prospect pool in a hurry. This team hasn't just had one kick at the can, the core has had several. The only way we improve is through the draft, that is exactly why we brought Jude in. What is the point of having a prospect system that is rated so well when we stuff the team full of NMC's for middling players. If everybody wanted to be here so bad, why did we pay a premium for a player like Foligno? And for the fact that we handed everyone(or close to) trade protections, why didn't we see more of a discount?

The guy I really feel for right now is Sammy Walker. Guerin is constantly saying "prove it" and the guy goes out and pots 2 goals, 2 assists and is all over the ice in preseason. His reward? He might be first call up when someone gets injured depending on our salary cap? Guys want a chance at the NHL, knowing there is no opportunity or even if you do make it up Deano is going to put you under a microscope while ignoring the failings of those around you really puts a damper on that.

 

This "core" isn't good enough and it is damn hard to get more talent added when we have next to zero opportunities for new guys, traded or drafted. BTDT makes a really good point above; Those Russian prospects are probably reevaluating whether or not to resign in the K right now, especially with the pressure the K likes to put on to keep guys there. They make substantially more in the K than the A and with little room for advancement to the big show, I don't see much motivation for them not to sign that next contract in the K. While some our best prospects stay elsewhere or try to chart their own path to the show we will be busy blowing the budget on walkers and wheelchair for our geriatric core. Prospects don't owe the Wild their loyalty and expecting them not to look out for themselves is a fool's errand. 

Dino get traded today to Sochi today so he's not resigning with SKA.  So we'll see him stateside in '24 with KK n Yurov 😎🏒.....🥅

...

 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Just now, vonlonster67 said:

Dino get traded today to Sochi today so he's not resigning with SKA.  So we'll see him stateside in '24 with KK n Yurov 😎🏒.....🥅

...

 

 

That is some juicy news right there. Now we just have to worry about making room for those two.

[vonlonster67]

Just now, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

 

That is some juicy news right there. Now we just have to worry about making room for those two.

4th line shuffle to plug them in the top 6

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

3 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

4th line shuffle to plug them in the top 6

Hate to see either of the Dewy Bros go

[vonlonster67]

15 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Hate to see either of the Dewy Bros go

Me2, but with the contracts that were signed this last week, talent needs room with the prospects coming unfortunately. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

58 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

Me2, but with the contracts that were signed this last week, talent needs room with the prospects coming unfortunately. 

PK might be looking a little lackluster at that point.

[vonlonster67]

9 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

PK might be looking a little lackluster at that point.

Remember when Fiala played PK, maybe Dino, Haight, or Heidt could plug in a spot

[Up North Guy]

7 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Speaking of resigning, Winnipeg just signed a pair of 30 year olds to $8.5m contracts. I don't believe they will age well. 

Those are a major gamble by Winnipeg. I just don't see them getting better with age. (both contracts and players)

[mnfaninnc]

4 hours ago, Protec said:

That's what that means, taking the time to play some seasons and build the NHL strength. Yurov and Knudi don't need to rush in and they won't by default now.

What I noticed when Kaprizov came over, and granted he was 24, he was completely ready to make the jump. It seems like some of the Russian training these players get may actually be better than we give them over here. 

I think they may be more serious about their gym training too. I wouldn't be surprised if both Dino and Yurov are both physically more mature than the others in their draft classes.

[vonlonster67]

20 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

What I noticed when Kaprizov came over, and granted he was 24, he was completely ready to make the jump. It seems like some of the Russian training these players get may actually be better than we give them over here. 

I think they may be more serious about their gym training too. I wouldn't be surprised if both Dino and Yurov are both physically more mature than the others in their draft classes.

They both have been playing against men 25-35 years old as 19-20 year-old's in the second best league in the world!

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, Up North Guy said:

Those are a major gamble by Winnipeg. I just don't see them getting better with age. (both contracts and players)

It's Winnipeg, probably the worst run Canadian Hockey team.....those contracts are ridiculous, no wonder our league is in financial ruins up North of the border other than God's capitol city in Toronto.

[Up North Guy]

5 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

It's Winnipeg, probably the worst run Canadian Hockey team.....those contracts are ridiculous, no wonder our league is in financial ruins up North of the border other than God's capitol city in Toronto.

Not sure The Peg is the worst run Canadian team (hello Vancouver) but I get your point.

[vonlonster67]

4 minutes ago, Up North Guy said:

Not sure The Peg is the worst run Canadian team (hello Vancouver) but I get your point.

At least Vancouver fixed there issues with a legit GM and they have young players, look who's coaching was beens in the Peg?

[Protec]

Knudi to team up with Michkov. Cool!

[Been There Done That]

23 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Can go a step further and add Shaw, Duhaime & Dewar to this list as well.

Tony's original post was referring to current contract extensions and the current prospect pool. As was my affirmation. (None of the names you list are current prospects.) So looking ahead to 2027, when the first of these current core extensions expire. The current prospect ages discussed will be...

Walker-28, Beckman-26, Marat-25, Yurov-24, Ohgren-24.

Again, I really hope for the best. GO WILD!

[Been There Done That]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:42 AM, vonlonster67 said:

So please correlate this theory on how KK, Boldy and Faber cracked the lineup?

Tony's original post was referring to current contract extensions and the current prospect pool. As was my affirmation. (None of the names you list are current prospects.) So looking ahead to 2027, when the first of these current core extensions expire. The current prospect ages discussed will be...

Walker-28, Beckman-26, Marat-25, Yurov-24, Ohgren-24.

Again, I really hope for the best. GO WILD!

[vonlonster67]

15 minutes ago, Been There Done That said:

Tony's original post was referring to current contract extensions and the current prospect pool. As was my affirmation. (None of the names you list are current prospects.) So looking ahead to 2027, when the first of these current core extensions expire. The current prospect ages discussed will be...

Walker-28, Beckman-26, Marat-25, Yurov-24, Ohgren-24.

Again, I really hope for the best. GO WILD!

The names I gave you didn't have to wait to crack the lineup as prospects. If your good enough, you play. NOW

It's ridiculous that you think they're gonna keep Dino, Yurov, and Ohgren down in the AHL until the end of those cobtracts.

Our fourth line will get dumped before that happens.

[FredJohnson]

No one wants to leave Seattle??

T-1. Seattle Kraken, 13
T-1. Pittsburgh Penguins, 13
3. Toronto Maple Leafs, 12
4. Detroit Red Wings, 11
T-5 MINNESOTA WILD, 10
T-5. St. Louis Blues, 10
T-5. New York Islanders, 10
T-5. Vegas Golden Knights, 10
T-9. Five teams with 9 trade-protected players

[Tony Abbott]

2 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

No one wants to leave Seattle??

T-1. Seattle Kraken, 13
T-1. Pittsburgh Penguins, 13
3. Toronto Maple Leafs, 12
4. Detroit Red Wings, 11
T-5 MINNESOTA WILD, 10
T-5. St. Louis Blues, 10
T-5. New York Islanders, 10
T-5. Vegas Golden Knights, 10
T-9. Five teams with 9 trade-protected players

Four of those deals weren't signed by Francis, but that's quite a bit still.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

On 10/10/2023 at 6:24 PM, vonlonster67 said:

It's Winnipeg, probably the worst run Canadian Hockey team.....those contracts are ridiculous, no wonder our league is in financial ruins up North of the border other than God's capitol city in Toronto.

Not sure what you mean here. Montreal and Toronto are some of the league's most valuable franchises(2+3). Vancouver is no 13 and Edmonton is in the top ten at no 7. Ottawa, Calgary, and Winnipeg are a little lower (24, 21, 27) but the league has literally been subsidizing Arizona for the past 5-6 years. That hardly seems like financial ruin especially considering Winnipeg is probably the most remote location in the league with the smallest population to draw on.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/12/14/nhl-team-values-2022-new-york-rangers-on-top-at-22-billion/?sh=418411277deb

It should also be noted we have the highest operating income in both MTL and TOR, and even our lackluster teams blow American teams out of the water. Our least valuable team(Winnipeg) has 4 times the operating income of the lowest(Panthers)

Edited October 12, 2023 by TheGoosesAreLooses
Operating Incomes

[Been There Done That]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:16 AM, vonlonster67 said:

The names I gave you didn't have to wait to crack the lineup as prospects. If your good enough, you play. NOW

It's ridiculous that you think they're gonna keep Dino, Yurov, and Ohgren down in the AHL until the end of those cobtracts.

Our fourth line will get dumped before that happens.

Okay, Let's try this for the third time. No one, except you, is referring to the past. Again, the post was about the current extensions and current prospect pool. So all the names you keep bringing up are irrelevant.  (From the past. Not current.) So the facts (contract years and current prospect ages) as stated in the original post and my affirmation are all correct. I'm not sure what else we can do to help you understand. If you need the rest of us to slow down so you can catch up. Just say so.