Article: Are the Wild Playing 3D Chess By Extending Zuccarello and Foligno?

[Brevan Bane]

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[vonlonster67]

With this trifecta of signings we are keeping the 1st line in tact until Rossi, Dino or Yurov jump in and providing a chance to sign KK. DE will be elated bonus??

After that, I'm guessing we lose one of the Dewey brothers as Hartzy and Moose get relegated to the 4th line. Outside chance Hartman could go to the 3rd line for a physical presence.

I still feel the late impact is going to be the loss of those last two years of Foligno's salary to sign a $8M impact player when we would have had $4M to start to work with per year.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

With the salary cap expected to jump $4M for 24-25, and another $4.5M for 25-26, my guess is that $4M isn't going to feel like nearly as much in 26-27 as if feels for a Wild team that has been cap-strapped for the last couple of seasons. Foligno is a key team leader and keeping him in MN is a good thing.

The final 2 years will not have full no-trade clauses, so could trade him, but hopefully his play will have the Wild wanting to keep him around throughout.

Per Bleacher Report -- 

Quote

The salary cap is projected to rise by $4 million for 2024-25 to $87.5 million. It could even exceed that expectation given significant increases in league revenue under its new broadcasting and sponsorship agreements, the rise in attendance since the pandemic, and the addition of the Seattle Kraken in 2021.

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Imyourhuckleberry

[vonlonster67]

9 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

With the salary cap expected to jump $4M for 24-25, and another $4.5M for 25-26, my guess is that $4M isn't going to feel like nearly as much in 26-27 as if feels for a Wild team that has been cap-strapped for the last couple of seasons. Foligno is a key team leader and keeping him in MN is a good thing.

The final 2 years will not have full no-trade clauses, so could trade him, but hopefully his play will have the Wild wanting to keep him around throughout.

Per Bleacher Report -- 

 

This is immaterial as every team gets that $4M extra and whether we absorb it or not, its a negative to the bottom line. The teams that made the smart signing will be there with the extra cash.

We need to use the same/similar strategies we been doing through cap hell, be smart, not wasteful! We all know Moose would have signed his same deal $3.1M X 3 and maybe I could live with that.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

22 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

We all know Moose would have signed his same deal $3.1M X 3 and maybe I could live with that.

Actually, none of us know it. The reason it is material is that Foligno's agent knows the cap is going up and he's fairly confident he can get him something close to a $4M deal after this upcoming season, maybe more if he has a great year.

How many great defensive players are team leaders who work in all of the hard areas, can fight, and also get you 14-24 goals(in 76+ games)?

Once the cap goes up, and every team has an extra $4M or $8.5M(in the 2nd year), how many of those guys can you get for substantially less than $4M per year.

[vonlonster67]

2 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Actually, none of us know it. The reason it is material is that Foligno's agent knows the cap is going up and he's fairly confident he can get him something close to a $4M deal after this upcoming season, maybe more if he has a great year.

How many great defensive players are team leaders who work in all of the hard areas, can fight, and also get you 14-24 goals(in 76+ games)?

Once the cap goes up, and every team has an extra $4M or $8.5M(in the 2nd year), how many of those guys can you get for substantially less than $4M per year.

Great, sign him to a 3yr deal then to meet in the middle. Not finish the contract when he's 39.

[mnfaninnc]

Quote

stating that “[Zuccarello is] a leader in our dressing room, and he’s somebody that all the guys look up to and respect, and from my perspective he’s a perfect fit for all those reasons. Zuccy, he’s just a great guy.” 

Brevan, did you kind of chuckle when you included that quote? Only the Pee Wees look up to Zuccarello at this point!

But, I'll agree that they do respect him!

I still don't like that deal and hate it more than the Foligno deal. I realize it's the K, but I feel like Khus^&*( has done enough in the K to grab that spot. I also believe that Yurov is the real deal, and could help that line too.

[Protec]

If Knudi and Yurov come over next year they should start in the AHL pretty automatically. Early season or a call up maybe but unless they’re unbelievably good, they should do what all the other guys do. Two of them together in IA can work. That will complete a good looking talent group overall going into the year penalties end. Have them play a year in NA and be able to work on getting used to the change. Get them some TOI and familiar with Minnesota. The Wild won’t need to rush their prospects. They’ve got age groups that offer options to mix contracts and extension dates. The Wild are in really nice shape.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, vonlonster67 said:

Great, sign him to a 3yr deal then to meet in the middle. Not finish the contract when he's 39.

I have stated a couple of times that I would have preferred a 3 year deal at $3.75M, and maybe that's what it should have been, but Guerin agreed to a little more.

On the other part, Foligno just turned 32. His current contract will be over by the time he turns 33 next August. New contract pays for age 33, 34, 35, and 36 seasons.

[Pewterschmidt]

16 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I have stated a couple of times that I would have preferred a 3 year deal at $3.75M, and maybe that's what it should have been, but Guerin agreed to a little more.

On the other part, Foligno just turned 32. His current contract will be over by the time he turns 33 next August. New contract pays for age 33, 34, 35, and 36 seasons.

Finally some positive spin on the Foligno contract

[MrCheatachu]

4 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

Great, sign him to a 3yr deal then to meet in the middle. Not finish the contract when he's 39.

Which one of these contracts makes the Moose one seem way out of line?

2023:

Jordan Staal (34) $2.9M x 4 years

Erik Haula (32) $3.15M x 3 years

Ryan O'Reilly (32) $4.25M x 4 years

J.T. Compher (28) $5.1 x 5 years

Alex Killorn (33) $6.2M x 4

Evan Rodrigues (29) $3M x 4 years

2022:

Trevor Moore (28) $4.2M x 5 years

Reilly Smith (31) $5M x 3 years

Evander Kane (30) $5.125M x 4 years

[Sviginak]

Right on Pewter, no sense going negative, none of us can see the future, although it appears some of us believe they can. Everyone gets their opinion, mine is I will watch the games and find out how it works out for us. I wasn’t thrilled with the Moose deal but it is time to live with it and find out how it works out/

[vonlonster67]

20 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Which one of these contracts makes the Moose one seem way out of line?

2023:

Jordan Staal (34) $2.9M x 4 years

Erik Haula (32) $3.15M x 3 years

Ryan O'Reilly (32) $4.25M x 4 years

J.T. Compher (28) $5.1 x 5 years

Alex Killorn (33) $6.2M x 4

Evan Rodrigues (29) $3M x 4 years

2022:

Trevor Moore (28) $4.2M x 5 years

Reilly Smith (31) $5M x 3 years

Evander Kane (30) $5.125M x 4 years

None, we need to right our own ship or sink.

We cant worry about other teams who overpay or cannot manage their cap. There are examples every year of teams overpaying and then selling the farm or going upside down the following year, no stability.

[DHockey]

3 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I have stated a couple of times that I would have preferred a 3 year deal at $3.75M, and maybe that's what it should have been, but Guerin agreed to a little more.

On the other part, Foligno just turned 32. His current contract will be over by the time he turns 33 next August. New contract pays for age 33, 34, 35, and 36 seasons.

.....And his no move clause comes to an end after his age 34 season.  The Wild can still move on from him at that time if the young guys are just so awesome we don't need him around anymore.  Or if they find someone they like better for that role it is setup for them to move him when the penalties comes off if they need/want to.

Not sure why we are so stuck on the term when they can get out of it if they need to.

[Been There Done That]

The article states twice that Foligno comes to 97's defense. I don't recall Suter looking too scared while cross checking 97 repeatedly.  Where was Revo or Moose? Did I miss Suter plastered into oblivion? Put on his a$$? Nada, zip, nothing. I do remember moose making an a$$ out of himself and complaining rather than stepping up and leading. So no, I cannot get on board with his extension.  And I  bet if you asked 97, he'd agree with me. 

[Been There Done That]

Just now, Been There Done That said:

The article states twice that Foligno comes to 97's defense. I don't recall Suter looking too scared while cross checking 97 repeatedly.  Where was Revo or Moose? Did I miss Suter plastered into oblivion? Put on his a$$? Nada, zip, nothing. I do remember moose making an a$$ out of himself and complaining rather than stepping up and leading. So no, I cannot get on board with his extension.  And I  bet if you asked 97, he'd agree with me. 

And just cause I enjoy beating dead horses, this was the perfect year for BG to put his money where his "beer soaked lips" is by seeing if 2022 Foligno was indeed an injury and head up his a$$ year, or if he could redeem himself both on the ice and with the team. (I've got a bunch of Folugno clips all ready to show my pee wee team this year how NOT to conduct yourself on and off the ice) Plus not extending Foligno now sends the correct message to the youngsters that even for the geriatrics it's about hard work and doing it the right way. Also, letting Foligno hit the open market would let the franchise REALLY see how much he wants to be here. Don't think for a second he wouldn't chase the money. Sorry folks, there is simply no hockey sense in the Foligno signing.

[vonlonster67]

Agreed,  I've beat the dead horse also, but it's time to put the pitchfork away and move on. 

I watched Wild on 7th last night with Moose featured on it. He offered up some heartfelt review of his season and this was before his signed contract. His words made me rethink this signing.

We can't change anything now as fans, but I know we have a genuine human being at the end of the day in that #17 jersey.

So, my pitchforks are down, my Moose jersey is still on, and I'm moving on in support of him, good and bad for the next two. We'll have to wait for the rest of the story.

 

[MrCheatachu]

15 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

None, we need to right our own ship or sink.

We cant worry about other teams who overpay or cannot manage their cap. There are examples every year of teams overpaying and then selling the farm or going upside down the following year, no stability.

Those weren't meant to be cherry picked examples of overpaying.  I went to cap friendly and sorted contracts signed by players 28 and over in the past 2 years of 3-5 years long.

I guess my point is that while I agree that Moose is probably longer and more expensive than I would have like to see, it's not super egregious from what the 'market-rate' is.

And I'm presenting a challenge for all those saying the money could have been better spent pursuing someone in FA to tell me which one of those contracts would have been worth swapping Moose for.

[vonlonster67]

5 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Those weren't meant to be cherry picked examples of overpaying.  I went to cap friendly and sorted contracts signed by players 28 and over in the past 2 years of 3-5 years long.

I guess my point is that while I agree that Moose is probably longer and more expensive than I would have like to see, it's not super egregious from what the 'market-rate' is.

And I'm presenting a challenge for all those saying the money could have been better spent pursuing someone in FA to tell me which one of those contracts would have been worth swapping Moose for.

See my last comment above yours.

[Protec]

Foligno losing his marbles about being 1000% screwed by crooked refs is totally excusable to me. Great optics, no. Good example to kids, no. But is it unforgivable, no. 

The Wild should learn from the past and make improvements. There are two ways you can look at that. For Guerin or Foligno. Guerin took a small risk on older players and it's possible this goes good or bad. Same for Foligno, he can turn the page or get bogged down in decline after the Dallas series but my instinct tells me he's already moved on and wants to prove he's still worth the money and valuable to the Wild.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

None, we need to right our own ship or sink.

We cant worry about other teams who overpay or cannot manage their cap. There are examples every year of teams overpaying and then selling the farm or going upside down the following year, no stability.

I get the sentiment here, but I think what Mr. C is getting at is these players are comps on the open market. Market value gets determined by that. While we might have wanted to pay Foligno 3 X $2.5m, that was not market value. Shooter's got to deal within that reality.

I'll agree with you that we need to worry about ourselves, but the facts are that Shooter thought these guys (including Hartman) are priority signings, and he didn't want them to walk. It's too high for me to go that way, especially on Zuccarello where the policy should be 1 year deals for 35+ players, we talk about the next deal at the end of the year. Zuccarello has 1 year left, so at the end of this season would be when it is discussed.

I sure hope we have like 3 AHLers who pot 40 this season to get the attention of management here. If they ask what more must they do? This is the answer. They'd better be playing with tremendous urgency and efficiency. My guess is there will be a lot more smashed sticks this season!

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Protec said:

Foligno losing his marbles about being 1000% screwed by crooked refs is totally excusable to me. Great optics, no. Good example to kids, no. But is it unforgivable, no. 

I'm sure everyone knows by now how I feel about this and the next steps the team NEEDS to do! My hope is Maroon is just the kind of guy who can go sideways in a moment's notice.

[Protec]

The fact NHL refs apologize nullified Foligno's off-flight from the handle. It was a bad look and didn't help the Wild. Dean was losing his shit too. 

That doesn't define the team. Vegas, they almost broke through. With Fiala and the career-year club, they couldn't beat STL, and last year losing Ek and Shaw was a tough break. 

There's some wiggle room for argument there but the Wild need to be better. They need more from Foligno & Hartman offensively. More grit and consistency from Boldy. Anything from Rossi and the same from Zuccarello and Fred. That's a solid group but they have to play as a group and get performers beginning in April. Mojo, Brodin, Faber. That's what I like about that pair is Brodin can jump in but has always been the anchor for another guy. I'm happy the Wild can switch up their roster at will in the bottom lines/pair.

[IllicitFive]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:55 AM, vonlonster67 said:

We need to use the same/similar strategies we been doing through cap hell, be smart, not wasteful! We all know Moose would have signed his same deal $3.1M X 3 and maybe I could live with that.

Do we though? You think they said oh 3.1 x 3 sounds good. Forget that lets give you a 4x4? While we may not like the deal, which could end up being 2 year with the dropping off the NTC lets not pretend those running the team financials are idiots haha.