Article: Extending Three Trusty Veterans Will Help Minnesota's New Core Develop

[Kalisha Turnipseed]

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[Up North Guy]

Not sure the math works. I like all those players but I do believe their time has passed. Moose and Hobbit are on the wrong side of the curve. Also, signing players over 35 in the NHL brings contract requirements that can be pretty bad. Hartman is young enough and flexible enough to resign at a reasonable price. The young guys have been blocked for too long (though not really that many of them) and more are coming that need slots. It is time to start rolling the roster over.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Replacing Dewar and Duhaime with Mojo and Freddy? Why would we send young talent with the possiblity to continue growing and getting better down the road to load up the forth line with pensioners who have hit their ceiling and are likely to regress? 

UN Guy hit the nail on the head. At some point we need to graduate some of the guys in IA.

There is a ton of speculation around Kap being unhappy if Zucc goes elsewhere. From the interviews Kap wants to win. He can see Zucc slowing down just as well as anyone else, would he really hold it against the Wild that they are trying to get better and younger in their quest for the cup?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Quote

The Athletic’s Michael Russo, reported that Öhgren is coming to Minnesota to be further evaluated by the team’s doctors to determine the severity of his back injury. This means he’s likely out indefinitely, which is a stunt in his development, but rest assured Öhgren will be ready to make the team in 2024-25.

That's only 1 year away. Due to this injury, I would guess it will be 25-26 before Öhgren might be pushing his way up to the Wild roster.  He could be in the AHL next season, but this injury is likely going to set back his development.

 

[vonlonster67]

Not a big fan of the salary numbers your throwing out, and no way I give up on Dewar and Duhaime. 

• Zucc - 3M max - one year
• Moose - 2M max - two year
• Hartzy - 2.5M max - three year
• Dewey - 1.75 - two year
• Duhaime - 2M - two year

I like what you did with the lines, but I also know you would need to convince DE of this plan. He'll be happy that you are keeping these three, but if the price isnt right they need to walk.

If Öhgren loses a year that could impact these lines also as one less body to start with (start in IA).

No way you hold Walker back again next year, something has to give and if I had to pick, Moose would be my choice. Zucci on year and Hartman to the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[MNCountryLife]

Hmmm.  From what I have seen from Walker, he is ready now.  How do you sit him in IA when we need goal scorers in MN.  I think BG will act on Walker sometime before xmas.  Once Walker plays up... DE and BG will not want to send him down.  Since we can't afford him up when everyone is healthy a trade  (or cut) will happen....similar to Jost.  Whoever is not playing well is likely gone to another team.

Beckman may make a similar case this year.  Although I am less confident on him.

[FredJohnson]

2 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

Not sure the math works. I like all those players but I do believe their time has passed. Moose and Hobbit are on the wrong side of the curve. Also, signing players over 35 in the NHL brings contract requirements that can be pretty bad. Hartman is young enough and flexible enough to resign at a reasonable price. The young guys have been blocked for too long (though not really that many of them) and more are coming that need slots. It is time to start rolling the roster over.

So very much this! I'm sick and tired of this team overpaying aging players on the HOPE they continue to be productive or worse hoping they become productive AGAIN. If we need veterans, get guys that are at least young enough to have a chance of playing out 80% of their contracts.

Edited September 28, 2023 by FredJohnson
Grammer

[FredJohnson]

1 hour ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:There is a ton of speculation around Kap being unhappy if Zucc goes elsewhere. 

Fine, keep the Lizard King but jettison the rest of the geriatrics.

[FredJohnson]

13 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

Hmmm.  From what I have seen from Walker, he is ready now.  How do you sit him in IA when we need goal scorers in MN.  I think BG will act on Walker sometime before xmas.  Once Walker plays up... DE and BG will not want to send him down.  Since we can't afford him up when everyone is healthy a trade  (or cut) will happen....similar to Jost.  Whoever is not playing well is likely gone to another team.

Beckman may make a similar case this year.  Although I am less confident on him.

Yeah, Sammy will be up and down this year.

[vonlonster67]

8 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

Fine, keep the Lizard King but jettison the rest of the geriatrics.

We need Hartzy for the 4th line if Maroon and Moose are gone next year, there is no one in IA that helps with that much skill and grit. I think he would be a nice compliment to Duhaime and Dewar and also flexible as to who you have at 4C.

I sure not looking to put Walker on the 4th line island. He needs to be on the 3rd line next year.

[MNCountryLife]

The article states that Yurov, Khusnutdinov, Öhgren may be ready next year... and we are potentially adding Rossi, Walker and Beckman as forwards  as well.  Add in Faber, Hunt and Masters as D-men by next year. 

So a total of 9 prospects playing up on the roster by 24-25?  That would be a massive WOW!!!  It would also require a loss of 9 veterans... ouch.

[vonlonster67]

4 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

The article states that Yurov, Khusnutdinov, Öhgren may be ready next year... and we are potentially adding Rossi, Walker and Beckman as forwards  as well.  Add in Faber, Hunt and Masters as D-men by next year. 

So a total of 9 prospects playing up on the roster by 24-25?  That would be a massive WOW!!!  It would also require a loss of 9 veterans... ouch.

Dont forget Lambos! He may be seen this year...for a game or 2. Also, Spacek.

Edited September 28, 2023 by vonlonster67

[Up North Guy]

14 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

Dont forget Lambos! He may be seen this year...for a game or 2. Also, Spacek.

Bottom line is the Wild have a large group of players ready or nearly ready to move up. Resigning older injury prone players is a bigger risk. There will surely be growing pains with all the new guys but there is only one way to know if they can make the grade at the NHL level and that is to promote and play them. Fans always have their favorites that they do not want to see leave (I am old enough to still be pissed that Harmon Killebrew ended his career in Kansas City). BG's job is to separate that fan feeling for the good of the team. Players never know that their expiration date has passed until it is too late.

[Backwoodsbob]

17 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

The article states that Yurov, Khusnutdinov, Öhgren may be ready next year... and we are potentially adding Rossi, Walker and Beckman as forwards  as well.  Add in Faber, Hunt and Masters as D-men by next year. 

So a total of 9 prospects playing up on the roster by 24-25?  That would be a massive WOW!!!  It would also require a loss of 9 veterans... ouch.

I'm not so sure that this number would be the turnover. Faber is already in the mix. Rossi, we'll see. Ohgren sounds like he'll be set back at least a year. I agree that there will be a good sized turnover but I can't see half the team in one year.

Hunt, Masters, Lambos and Spacek will be auditioning to take over Goligoski, Merrill and possibly Addison's spots. Someone will likely be out of the mix.

I'm also in favor of bringing up young prospects vs signing relics with the exception of Grizzle.

[Sviginak]

Looks like good news on Ohgren; checked out by Wild doctors and given the OK to start skating when he gets back to Scandahoovia.

[Greenbean]

1 hour ago, Sviginak said:

Looks like good news on Ohgren; checked out by Wild doctors and given the OK to start skating when he gets back to Scandahoovia.

That's the best news for this team I've read in a few minutes!

[vonlonster67]

3 hours ago, Backwoodsbob said:

I'm not so sure that this number would be the turnover. Faber is already in the mix. Rossi, we'll see. Ohgren sounds like he'll be set back at least a year. I agree that there will be a good sized turnover but I can't see half the team in one year.

Hunt, Masters, Lambos and Spacek will be auditioning to take over Goligoski, Merrill and possibly Addison's spots. Someone will likely be out of the mix.

I'm also in favor of bringing up young prospects vs signing relics with the exception of Grizzle.

Bob, in regard to the D. I'm hoping they move Goose or Merrill and give us some breathing room this year.

I'd rather take our lumps and get a multitude of D-men from IA playing time rather than see inconsistent play from one of the vets, injury, or hitting a wall due to age or talent.

[mnfaninnc]

21 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

The article states that Yurov, Khusnutdinov, Öhgren may be ready next year... and we are potentially adding Rossi, Walker and Beckman as forwards  as well.  Add in Faber, Hunt and Masters as D-men by next year. 

So a total of 9 prospects playing up on the roster by 24-25?  That would be a massive WOW!!!  It would also require a loss of 9 veterans... ouch.

As already mentioned, Lambos would be in the mix, probably replacing Faber on this list. But, how does anyone forget The Wall??? That would be 10 if we're counting. 

Based upon that, I really only see room for 1 vet to stay. Foligno is my guy on that list.

Zuccarello is getting to that age where he can fall off the cliff hard. Hartman may be younger, but he's like a 2018 vehicle with 200k miles on it. It looks newer but has been used heavily. Highway miles? Nope, they were grinding it out, tough miles. Foligno's had some tough miles too, but his frame can handle more than Hartman's. 

[MrCheatachu]

Quote

That means he agrees to a two- to three-year deal worth $4.5 million per season. Kaprizov’s contract expires in 2026-27, so that means that Zuccarello will need to sign at least a 2-year contract.

Zuccy just signed 2 years, $8.25M (4.125AAV) with NMC both years... 

Sounds like wheels have started for Hartzy and Moose too:

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by MrCheatachu
moose/hartzy news

[mnfaninnc]

The premise of this article I wholeheartedly disagree with. If our roster was unlimited, perhaps we could entertain this, but it's not, it's capped at 23. 

Here are my problems:

1. Keeping Zuccarello, Hartman, Foligno while letting the Dewey's go.
2. Blocking the kids from coming up.
3. Holding on to past glory thinking it will come again.
4. That Kaprizov has to have Zuccarello on the team or he strikes.
5. Have we not learned our lesson with Alex Goligoski?

Let's look at Goligoski. He signed a 1 year $5m contract and looked real good next to Spurgeon. Spurgeon has that affect on a lot of people and we all saw that Goligoski was much faster than Ryan Suter. However, with about 40% of the year left, suddenly Goligoski hit a brick wall. 

Goligoski was never the same after that. That wall is obvious to the spectators-it's the wall of age. Every player hits that wall. When? It's different for everyone, but the signs are similar.

With Pominville, it was the swing and whiffs on one timers. With Heatley, his speed decreased tremendously. With Parise it was the injury toll. With Suter, it was the same thing and lack of speed. And, with Goligoski it was speed. 

Zuccarello was having a decent season last year, until an injury to Kaprizov interrupted it. But, was it Zuccy stepping up in the absence? No, it was Boldy who elevated his game. Zuccarello, it turns out, was also dealing with a core injury and gutting it out. The affect: He looked slower and was injured. Does this have a similar pattern to the above? Absolutely!

The sky will not fall in Kaprizov's world if Zuccarello is traded or not resigned. He wants to win more than anything and he knows that players age out. He's been in contact with Yurov, telling him he's waiting for him. That is who Kaprizov likely sees himself playing with. 

Hartman is another player with a lot of miles on him. Let's face it, he performed his full 3 year contract in the 1st year. He got hurt last year, right shoulder/arm and knee. He gets hurt a lot. If he has a decent year this year, he'll be do a nice raise. But, he stayed here because it felt like home to him and took the team friendly deal to be a part of this. 

Foligno did not take the team friendly deal, but he performed most of his contract in its first year too. I believe Foligno will age better than Hartman, even though Hartman likely has more skill. What Foligno brings we do not have in Iowa. Stramel might be able to replicate it, but is probably 2 years off, and it won't be replicated right away. I truly value the heavy game, or at least the ability to have that heavy shift if needed. Foligno provides that much better than Hartman, though I believe Hartman is a bit chippier. Remember, it was Hartman who reverse hit Ehlers in response to Kaprizov's injury the last time the 2 teams had met. 

In this case, I'd prefer Foligno, but I could settle with Hartman. The thing is, it really can only be 1 of them that stays. The Dewey's give way too much value not to be resigned. And, as a team, we do need to get younger.

[MNCountryLife]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

As already mentioned, Lambos would be in the mix, probably replacing Faber on this list. But, how does anyone forget The Wall??? That would be 10 if we're counting. 

Based upon that, I really only see room for 1 vet to stay. Foligno is my guy on that list.

Zuccarello is getting to that age where he can fall off the cliff hard. Hartman may be younger, but he's like a 2018 vehicle with 200k miles on it. It looks newer but has been used heavily. Highway miles? Nope, they were grinding it out, tough miles. Foligno's had some tough miles too, but his frame can handle more than Hartman's. 

It's a really good problem to have.  With an excess number of players coming in it allows us to trade players away and collect more future draft picks.  Essentially growing the pool and even trading up in the draft for better prospects.  The trick for BG is to bring those players in and still have a playoff contention team.  All within the constraints of a our Cap.  Thankfully that lets up after 24-25.  Will be one heck of a dance if BG can pull it off.  IBGIT.

[mnfaninnc]

5 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

With an excess number of players coming in it allows us to trade players away and collect more future draft picks. 

My hope is to see a draft pick traded to us that is like a 2029 1st rounder for an average player. It's so far out there that maybe a GM would do it figuring he may not be around by then.

[mnfaninnc]

It's as if Kalisha is a clairvoyant today!

[vonlonster67]

• Zucci - $4.5 2-3yrs = $4M/2 yrs ✅️ 😎
• Foligno - $1.5 - 1.75  3yrs = $4M/4yrs ❌️ 🤯
• Hartman - $3M  2-3yrs = ❓️🤔 🤢

 

[Been There Done That]

Sorry. None of what you hope for makes any hockey sense from either the on ice, or business side. The simple fact is these three have gone from being over priced placeholders to over priced talent blockers. These types of contracts get coaches and GMs fired. And top talent wanting out. Yikes!! I can already see the horror in Kalisha's eyes watching our geriatric team chase Bedard are Xcel energy center the next four years. Oh the humanity.