Article: Rossi Will Start Training Camp Still Looking For A Prime Opportunity

[Tony Abbott]

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[vonlonster67]

This is disappointing to see Foligno projected on this line. Not the line that is going to help Rossi succeed. If they really think by putting two wings that are not looking to score with Rossi, it will make it worse and he's going to try to do to much instead of relax and let the game come to him.

I have some confidence in Freddy to help balance the line, but Moose with Rossi who depends on break outs with speed? Not gonna happen with Moose tracks. Why not put Duhaime in this line to generate more offense? This is just DE being DE, gotta stay (with what doesn't work). 

The best of all the ideas I heard was putting him with Boldy as they have previous chemistry, but why screw up another line that was hot last year. This would mean Ek moving to 1C, which again, didnt work last year.

This is the perfect example of setting Rossi up to fail again by forcing a square peg in a round hole. DE says flexibility, I say same ol' stuff, different season.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

I hope Rossi succeeds, but I don't think the future of the Wild is dependent upon it him reaching even Granlund levels of success.

Quote

represents a large chunk of the franchise's long-term hopes.

Khusnutdinov, Yurov, Wallstedt, Faber, Lambos, and the rest of the prospects on the way seem just as important, if not more so, to the long-term success of the Wild.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

8 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

This is the perfect example of setting Rossi up to fail again by forcing a square peg in a round hole. DE says flexibility, I say same ol' stuff, different season.

Seems like the right move for balancing lines and being hard to play against.

They'll play around with different options, and likely give Rossi PP2 minutes to allow for scoring there, but Gaudreau has shown an ability to score when setup in high danger situations, and Foligno has scored a bit in the past. If Rossi is a great skater and passer, he should be able to help them succeed.

If it doesn't work, they'll pivot to other options they tinker with along the way, but who else would you put between Gaudreau and Foligno to help them reach 20 goals in the upcoming season?

Also have to consider who they are going to pair on PP and PK opportunities when they are formulating what lines they'd like to try 5v5.

They exceeded preseason expectations each of the last 2 seasons, so "same ol' stuff" might not be the worst thing to some fans. If they can enter a postseason healthy, results could change significantly from doing the same.

[Will D. Ness]

I'm actually getting kind of psyched to see if he means business.  15 lbs?  Nice.

[mnfaninnc]

50 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

The best of all the ideas I heard was putting him with Boldy as they have previous chemistry, but why screw up another line that was hot last year. This would mean Ek moving to 1C, which again, didnt work last year.

Ek did not play on the #1 line last season, he played on the Kaprizov line for a few games early in 2021. The line didn't click, but, since then, they have played together fairly successfully on PP1. I would say that it deserves another look at some point. 

If Hartsy gets off to a slow start, why not move Ek up, Rossi up, and Hartsy down to Foligno and Gaudreau? I, for one, would like to see Ek with Kaprizov and Zuccarello again.

[vonlonster67]

45 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I hope Rossi succeeds, but I don't think the future of the Wild is dependent upon it him reaching even Granlund levels of success.

Khusnutdinov, Yurov, Wallstedt, Faber, Lambos, and the rest of the prospects on the way seem just as important, if not more so, to the long-term success of the Wild.

Agreed, but are we setting up Rossi to fail with his ability to make plays and score.

[vonlonster67]

6 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

I'm actually getting kind of psyched to see if he means business.  15 lbs?  Nice.

The kid gave up being at his sister's wedding to work out here...that's some stone cold chit....Me2

[vonlonster67]

38 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Seems like the right move for balancing lines and being hard to play against.

They'll play around with different options, and likely give Rossi PP2 minutes to allow for scoring there, but Gaudreau has shown an ability to score when setup in high danger situations, and Foligno has scored a bit in the past. If Rossi is a great skater and passer, he should be able to help them succeed.

If it doesn't work, they'll pivot to other options they tinker with along the way, but who else would you put between Gaudreau and Foligno to help them reach 20 goals in the upcoming season?

Also have to consider who they are going to pair on PP and PK opportunities when they are formulating what lines they'd like to try 5v5.

They exceeded preseason expectations each of the last 2 seasons, so "same ol' stuff" might not be the worst thing to some fans. If they can enter a postseason healthy, results could change significantly from doing the same.

So why wouldn't Duhaime balance that line and Moose the 4th line? I like all your other points on PP and PK. I'd put Rossi on the PK like they did Fiala a few back.

[mnfaninnc]

Rossi on the Gaudreau/Foligno line is not the worst thing in the world. However, how do you grade Rossi? I would suggest that results are important, but the true grades should be high danger scoring chances that Rossi provides whether or not they are converted.

The issue here may be conversion, and if Rossi isn't producing assists, it may look like a fail. It's not if he's producing the HDSCs. Another grade could be the net goals at 5v5. If this is a strong line that doesn't get scored on and chips in a little offense, that is a good thing to help the team win. 

Now, if we're grading Rossi with chances instead of points, does that mean that Addy deserves the same type of grading? I'd say yes he does. Last season we saw Addison deliver a team worst goalie sv% while he was on the ice. This would be a stat I'd watch, but also the net HDSCs to see what is happening. 

Of course, for both of these players, the statistics here are mainly a focus, the eye test must also be passed. I'm hoping that Von is going to be attending preseason games and giving us a summary after each of what he saw from the young kids.

[mnfaninnc]

5 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

So why wouldn't Duhaime balance that line and Moose the 4th line? I like all your other points on PP and PK. I'd put Rossi on the PK like they did Fiala a few back.

I would love to see Duhaime moved up. His speed would help. But, in determining the 3rd and 4th lines, I think a lot of these players are interchangeable and can be tinkered with.

[vonlonster67]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

Rossi on the Gaudreau/Foligno line is not the worst thing in the world. However, how do you grade Rossi? I would suggest that results are important, but the true grades should be high danger scoring chances that Rossi provides whether or not they are converted.

The issue here may be conversion, and if Rossi isn't producing assists, it may look like a fail. It's not if he's producing the HDSCs. Another grade could be the net goals at 5v5. If this is a strong line that doesn't get scored on and chips in a little offense, that is a good thing to help the team win. 

Now, if we're grading Rossi with chances instead of points, does that mean that Addy deserves the same type of grading? I'd say yes he does. Last season we saw Addison deliver a team worst goalie sv% while he was on the ice. This would be a stat I'd watch, but also the net HDSCs to see what is happening. 

Of course, for both of these players, the statistics here are mainly a focus, the eye test must also be passed. I'm hoping that Von is going to be attending preseason games and giving us a summary after each of what he saw from the young kids.

Going to camp a few days next week

[mnfaninnc]

9 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

The kid gave up being at his sister's wedding to work out here...that's some stone cold chit....Me2

That's a nice gesture, but it must translate to the ice. At this point, extra credit points don't count unless we see a real difference.

Sadly, I'll bet his sister planned the wedding to the offseason just so he could attend. I hope he doesn't regret that decision later in life.

[mnfaninnc]

2 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

Going to camp a few days next week

and those will be golden nuggets you can pass along.

[MNCountryLife]

Did I miss it?  The article mentions that Rossi will start with Freddy and Foligno.  It doesn't say if Freddy or Rossi will be center.  I hope they keep Rossi at Center.  Someone with his skill will eventually make the players around him better.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, vonlonster67 said:

So why wouldn't Duhaime balance that line and Moose the 4th line?

I'm not saying he couldn't, but I think they want to keep Dewar and Duhaime together, particularly to work together on the PK. Close friends and Dewar sets up some good chances as well. Duhaime isn't exactly known as a scorer, and certainly isn't known as a clever passer(12 assists in 131 games; just 1 last year).

In looking at Duhaime's last 2 seasons compared to Foligno's last 4 seasons(trying to use as large a sample as seems applicable), Duhaime has shot the puck around 50% more frequently than Foligno.  On the other hand, Foligno has scored goals around 50% more frequently than Duhaime, on a per minute basis, and scored more than twice as frequently per shot attempt. On a per attempt basis, Duhaime was better last season than his first season with the Wild, but still fell well short of where Foligno traditionally sits.

I believe Foligno may have been playing through some injury last year that reduced his shooting ability, but the prior 3 seasons had him scoring much more frequently, per shot, than Duhaime was able to muster last year.  If Foligno doesn't get back to how he played 2 seasons ago, I could certainly see him moved to 4th line.

I'm not opposed to them trying other options, I just fully expected them to go into training camp with the lines that we now know they are considering using.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

Did I miss it?  The article mentions that Rossi will start with Freddy and Foligno.  It doesn't say if Freddy or Rossi will be center.  I hope they keep Rossi at Center.  Someone with his skill will eventually make the players around him better.

Evason quote from The Athletic regarding Rossi, "He’ll start, which you’ll see at the start of camp, with (Marcus) Foligno and (Freddy) Gaudreau on the right side."

I interpreted that as Rossi centering the two of them, but if they got the punctuation wrong, I suppose it could be interpreted the other way.

That line should be solid on faceoffs because Gaudreau is pretty good and can handle them if Rossi is struggling or gets thrown out of the circle.

[vonlonster67]

5 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I'm not saying he couldn't, but I think they want to keep Dewar and Duhaime together, particularly to work together on the PK. Close friends and Dewar sets up some good chances as well. Duhaime isn't exactly known as a scorer, and certainly isn't known as a clever passer(12 assists in 131 games; just 1 last year).

In looking at Duhaime's last 2 seasons compared to Foligno's last 4 seasons(trying to use as large a sample as seems applicable), Duhaime has shot the puck around 50% more frequently than Foligno.  On the other hand, Foligno has scored goals around 50% more frequently than Duhaime, on a per minute basis, and scored more than twice as frequently per shot attempt. On a per attempt basis, Duhaime was better last season than his first season with the Wild, but still fell well short of where Foligno traditionally sits.

I believe Foligno may have been playing through some injury last year that reduced his shooting ability, but the prior 3 seasons had him scoring much more frequently, per shot, than Duhaime was able to muster last year.  If Foligno doesn't get back to how he played 2 seasons ago, I could certainly see him moved to 4th line.

I'm not opposed to them trying other options, I just fully expected them to go into training camp with the lines that we now know they are considering using.

So comparing them head to head may not be fair as Duhaime has had limited opportunity compared to Moose who has played with much better talent.

I believe Dewey is on the brink of improving significantly if give the opportunity. Bottom line, Dewey vs Moose. Dewey still has age, grit, physical, speed, can score if given the opportunity and belongs on the penalty kill.  He is our future.

DE can work out the rest. 

[Beast]

Oh good.  Throw him on another checking line, which clearly isn’t his game, then send him back to Iowa when he’s not producing and blame it on his game.

Put him with somebody that can score and let him be a playmaker.  Makes much more sense to give him a shot on the first line and get Hartman where he belongs.  You can always adjust if it doesn’t work throughout camp.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

6 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

Dewey still has age, grit, physical, speed, can score if given the opportunity and belongs on the penalty kill.  He is our future.

I appreciate Duhaime's game, but his past doesn't make me all that hopeful for offensive output. He hasn't topped 15 goals in 1 season at any level the last decade.

And while Foligno has played on a higher line, Eriksson Ek had not been a high level passer. He had not topped 23 assists in a season prior to last year(when he played more PP than ever before). To be fair, Eriksson Ek did lead the Wild in even strength assists last year, playing with Boldy.  Greenway recorded 0 assists in 17 games for the Sabres last season, 5 for the Wild, and also had not been a major factor in the passing game.

Dewar was actually a playmaking scorer in the WHL. Dewar had 81 points(36 goals, 45 assists) in 59 games his last year of WHL play--he led the entire team in scoring and they were the top team in their division. Reaves tallied 10 assists last year with the Wild. Duhaime recorded 1 assist.

I really like Duhaime's energy on the 4th line, I'm just not sure he has the all around game yet to elevate him, likely not above an alternate captain from last season. I think we'll see how they both do this season. At some point, Foligno may miss games due to injury and Duhaime makes sense filling in there and they could backfill the 4th line someone else. If he thrives, maybe he sticks there.

Nothing is set in stone, and Duhaime may show off some skills he's never flashed before if given more opportunity. We'll see how it all plays out.

[vonlonster67]

1 minute ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I appreciate Duhaime's game, but his past doesn't make me all that hopeful for offensive output. He hasn't topped 15 goals in 1 season at any level the last decade.

And while Foligno has played on a higher line, Eriksson Ek had not been a high level passer. He had not topped 23 assists in a season prior to last year(when he played more PP than ever before). To be fair, Eriksson Ek did lead the Wild in even strength assists last year, playing with Boldy.  Greenway recorded 0 assists in 17 games for the Sabres last season, 5 for the Wild, and also had not been a major factor in the passing game.

Dewar was actually a playmaking scorer in the WHL. Dewar had 81 points(36 goals, 45 assists) in 59 games his last year of WHL play--he led the entire team in scoring and they were the top team in their division. Reaves tallied 10 assists last year with the Wild. Duhaime recorded 1 assist.

I really like Duhaime's energy on the 4th line, I'm just not sure he has the all around game yet to elevate him, likely not above an alternate captain from last season. I think we'll see how they both do this season. At some point, Foligno may miss games due to injury and Duhaime makes sense filling in there and they could backfill the 4th line someone else. If he thrives, maybe he sticks there.

Nothing is set in stone, and Duhaime may show off some skills he's never flashed before if given more opportunity. We'll see how it all plays out.

We're gonna need Dewey as I'm guessing Moose still isn't healed yet which is why we saw Jujhar Khaira signed.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

Put him with somebody that can score and let him be a playmaker.  Makes much more sense to give him a shot on the first line and get Hartman where he belongs.  You can always adjust if it doesn’t work throughout camp.

So, put Hartman with 2 guys who need a playmaker to be dangerous, and put Rossi with 2 guys who don't need a playmaker to be dangerous?

I can see how that would benefit Rossi's scoring stats, but why would that be beneficial for the Wild?

Who do you park in front of the net to screen when Kaprizov, Rossi, and Zuccarello are on the ice together?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 minute ago, vonlonster67 said:

We're gonna need Dewey as I'm guessing Moose still isn't healed yet which is why we saw Jujhar Khaira signed.

Possible.  Evason hinted that someone wasn't 100%, but he thought he'd be good to go by the start of the season.  He did not disclose which forward it was though.

[Velgey]

14 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

So, put Hartman with 2 guys who need a playmaker to be dangerous, and put Rossi with 2 guys who don't need a playmaker to be dangerous?

I'm firmly in the camp that wants Rossi to be given a better opportunity than a checking line to see if he can make the jump, but this comment gets to the heart of the quandry: Rossi, even if he can be a proper 1C, is not bringing the missing ingredients to a line with KK and Zucc. Hartman has worked reasonably well with KK and Zucc because he is a good triggerman and has some sandpaper in his game. Rossi doesn't look like he'll be a goals-first scoring center, which is fine. High-level playmaking is a wonderful quality, especially in a top 6 center. It's just not what's needed for the center playing with KK and Zucc.

Now if EEK developed good chemistry with KK and Zucc, that would be wonderful for that line AND it would open up a good role for Rossi on the line with Boldy and MoJo. MoJo can help secure offensive zone control, Boldy is a scorer, and Rossi can be the playmaker. That would be an ideal scenario. Unfortunately, EEK hasn't demonstrated that chemistry with KK and Zucc. Not to mention it seems foolish to disrupt the MoJo - EEK - Boldy line that looks to be very effective.

And to huckleberry's last point, it's possible Rossi help Foligno and Gaudreau become better offensive contributors. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Velgey

[TCMooch]

I am not a fan of Evason as a coach. I think he stifles prospects and has no idea on how to develop them properly.

Why the fuck would you not start a top 10 picked prospect on the first line and set him up to succeed? He is already defensively responsible. This is an idiotic plan.