Article: Extension Watch: What Should the Wild Do With Mats Zuccarello?

[Tony Abbott]

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[Protec]

I like the Norwegian Hobbit for his part with the Kaprizov duo. He's certainly looked good in that role during the regular season. Can it work in the playoffs? Perhaps but the Wild would need to be deeper and stronger overall because Zuccarello's size and style isn't going to overpower or power through playoff opponents. It would have to be part of a more balanced puzzle.

Therefore, an extension for Zuccarello could be okay but if his production is very good it becomes a conundrum whether to spend again on an offensively talented little Euro guy. If it was around 3M, the Wild would be somewhat safe. More than that, or for longer than a year would begin to look kinda sketchy. Zuccarello is a nice player for sure, but like you say, he's a bit of an outlier and unique in that he brings something to the table but is it what the Wild have an appetite for when there's options or dietary constraints so to speak?

[Up North Guy]

Zuccy has been a great part of the Wild team. His work with KK97 is fabulous. Unfortunately his USE BY Date has passed as it does with all players, great and good. Anything more than a smaller one year deal would be mistake and I would not do that. It is time to see what some of the kids could do or find a way to get a guy like Pettersson. 

[vonlonster67]

I have to agree, there is no way BG pays him $7m or $6m.

Anywhere over $4m for next year and I'm thinking ideally he takes the contract place of Foligno obviously depending on this year.

I would go for $7 million for 2 years for a team friendly stay with his buddy. Knowing that if he retires/injuries in the last year, we would be protected.

Zucci, Hartzy, Dewey 1 &  2 resign next year for a salary impact of $8m..and $9m to a player to be named (1c) that's all folks!

[vonlonster67]

51 minutes ago, Up North Guy said:

Zuccy has been a great part of the Wild team. His work with KK97 is fabulous. Unfortunately his USE BY Date has passed as it does with all players, great and good. Anything more than a smaller one year deal would be mistake and I would not do that. It is time to see what some of the kids could do or find a way to get a guy like Pettersson. 

UNG, I like your idea with the young guys, but know Zucci would be an important piece in the locker room for those young guys on the ice and off.

I believe his approach with KK over the past few years shows his team investment and that he is willing to be that veteran presence for the learning curve they will all face.

Most Wild fans do not give Zucci enough cred for his voice in the locker room and have deferred to Reavo and Dumba. They are both gone and well a D-man is great getting everyone fired up, I would rather have a savvy old vet who's a lil crusty to implement the facts of life to the youngens.

[MNCountryLife]

$6/$7 AAV... Wow.  There were a lot of people on this board excited about the cap room this money gave us in the "is-next-summer-the-time-for-the-wild-to-strike" article.  You pay that kind of money out to a player there is an expectation and usually a proven track record that he can repeat those numbers.  The question becomes, can we get a better player to replace his numbers or does the money get distributed out among multiple players to create a more balanced roster.  At Zuc's age I would tend to move on.  He has been a fantastic player but it is unlikely he can help us get a cup.  I certainly do not want to lose any of our rising young players to limited cap space.  That would hurt us for years to come.

[mnfaninnc]

Sometimes I just have to wonder what Evolving Hockey is smoking or drinking or both? Their model seems to be way out of whack to reality. What to do with Zuccarello-

1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

I'd really rather convert the $5m in savings ($6m-$1m elc) to a center like Pettersson. I do not value the friendship angle very highly as I believe Kaprizov's drive to win > any friendships. Let's go get that dynamic center we need, and I'll say it again, whenever that opportunity presents itself, we need to jump and consider the consequences later. Our prospect pool is loaded with stuff Vancouver needs, and Pettersson would like it here.

[vonlonster67]

3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Sometimes I just have to wonder what Evolving Hockey is smoking or drinking or both? Their model seems to be way out of whack to reality. What to do with Zuccarello-

1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

I'd really rather convert the $5m in savings ($6m-$1m elc) to a center like Pettersson. I do not value the friendship angle very highly as I believe Kaprizov's drive to win > any friendships. Let's go get that dynamic center we need, and I'll say it again, whenever that opportunity presents itself, we need to jump and consider the consequences later. Our prospect pool is loaded with stuff Vancouver needs, and Pettersson would like it here.

So for a talking point sake, who would you part with to Vancouver?

[Cole_Train]

I’d say thank you for your service Zucc and offer him a role off the ice with the team. Zucc might still want to play but I think we should move on. I think he has a lil gas in the tank left but not anything we can’t cover with prospects. If they do resign him which I hope we don’t do, it can’t be more than a one year deal and has to be 1-3 million max and even then I won’t like it but I’ll hold my tongue and deal with it. We really need to strategize how we want to project for the end of the dead cap while seeing what our prospects have to offer. Please don’t deviate from the plan. I do really like Zucc as a person and hope for him the best but not at the team’s expense.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

45 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

What to do with Zuccarello-

1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

You must mean his market value is in the $4M territory, right?

Maybe the Wild try to replace him with youth at a $1M contract, but Zuccarello cannot be at that contract value. You later said relatively similar to Dumba, who signed very close to $4M, so that's why I'm guessing you typed it wrong in the 2nd line.

I believe Guerin will need to look long-term for that replacement as well. I have enjoyed watching Zuccarello play, but it's hard to count on him being at the same level for the next handful of years after this where the Wild will presumably be pursuing a cup.

[CoolHandL]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Sometimes I just have to wonder what Evolving Hockey is smoking or drinking or both? Their model seems to be way out of whack to reality. What to do with Zuccarello-

1. Let him head to free agency, don't resign him during the season
2. See what his market value really is, I suspect it is in the $1m territory
3. We've got the cavalry coming, let's look at that
4. After he goes through free agency relatively with the same interest that Dumba got, perhaps we circle back around for a cheap 1 YR DEAL! These 2-year over 35 deals have got to stop!

I'd really rather convert the $5m in savings ($6m-$1m elc) to a center like Pettersson. I do not value the friendship angle very highly as I believe Kaprizov's drive to win > any friendships. Let's go get that dynamic center we need, and I'll say it again, whenever that opportunity presents itself, we need to jump and consider the consequences later. Our prospect pool is loaded with stuff Vancouver needs, and Pettersson would like it here.

Agreed, and agreed. I'd hope by now Kaprizov knows this is a business, and that that business will serve him well as a superstar player. Guerin will work to reward him with another superstar, we should count on it.

[Protec]

We don't know Knudi or Rossi are NHL centers for sure. One of those guys as a wing might be another reason Zuccarello is potentially too expensive AND too old for comfort. Never know. These will be guys to watch in their contract or Swan-song year. What will it mean for the Wild? By deadline time there will be a playoff picture, injuries can factor in, and players will be viewed from a "what have you done for me lately?" scope. When it comes to extentions, I would think a solid year might bring that new deal along before the end of the year. For guys who stink, the Wild will probably let them wait til after a playoff run as a final chance then perhaps let em walk. For me Hartman and Zuccarello have added the most offense but it's hard to argue Foligno or Fleury aren't important. I've always said, better one year too early than one year too late. I think the Wild have a redundancy plan in goal. Who's easiest to replace between Foligno, Hartman, and Zuccarello? The chances all three guys have great seasons and we can't imagine losing any one or two of them is slim. That's why I look at Hartman as potentially the one most worth keeping. Age, offense, toughness, most complete of the three.

[M_Nels]

4 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

Zuccy has been a great part of the Wild team. His work with KK97 is fabulous. Unfortunately his USE BY Date has passed as it does with all players, great and good. Anything more than a smaller one year deal would be mistake and I would not do that. It is time to see what some of the kids could do or find a way to get a guy like Pettersson. 

Agreed. I could get on board with a cheap 1yr deal just to get through the last cap strapped year and get the young guns another year of development but I’m with you, anything more than that would be a mistake. 
 

He’ll be 36 next month so age is definitely a factor. Love the guy but you gotta do what’s best for the team even if it means splitting up PB&J. 

[joebou15]

3 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

UNG, I like your idea with the young guys, but know Zucci would be an important piece in the locker room for those young guys on the ice and off.

I believe his approach with KK over the past few years shows his team investment and that he is willing to be that veteran presence for the learning curve they will all face.

Most Wild fans do not give Zucci enough cred for his voice in the locker room and have deferred to Reavo and Dumba. They are both gone and well a D-man is great getting everyone fired up, I would rather have a savvy old vet who's a lil crusty to implement the facts of life to the youngens.

I agree that he has value for everything you're saying. 

 

But is that worth 3 more years? It's not like these guys won't have a role model on the team. Not to mention, if the staff indeed sees the team lacking a veteran presence, those guys can be bought for cheap on the free agent market. 

 

Tough decisions need to be made here. He's been better than I would have ever guessed when he first signed. But why use a 37 year old guy at term and expensive dollars blocking a roster spot for a cheaper, younger alternative?

The leadership and comeraderie is only worth so much, especially if hes falli g off in other areas. And I'm just not willing to pay for it this time.

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, joebou15 said:

I agree that he has value for everything you're saying. 

 

But is that worth 3 more years? It's not like these guys won't have a role model on the team. Not to mention, if the staff indeed sees the team lacking a veteran presence, those guys can be bought for cheap on the free agent market. 

 

Tough decisions need to be made here. He's been better than I would have ever guessed when he first signed. But why use a 37 year old guy at term and expensive dollars blocking a roster spot for a cheaper, younger alternative?

The leadership and comeraderie is only worth so much, especially if hes falli g off in other areas. And I'm just not willing to pay for it this time.

Good points, we can't change this year so $6m it is. I personally like mnfaniac take of $1m, but don't think it'll get him signed.

I don't believe we're gonna have that many reliable wingers a year from now that would help us in a playoff run. I know we have the prospects,  and I DO NOT want to block anyone's opportunity.

 Why mess with the locker room and bring in someone else at KK expense if your gonna pay someone else $2m. Leadership is valued or you have a locker room like Anaheim with everyone playing their own tune and haven't a clue about team. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by vonlonster67

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, M_Nels said:

Agreed. I could get on board with a cheap 1yr deal just to get through the last cap strapped year and get the young guns another year of development but I’m with you, anything more than that would be a mistake. 
 

He’ll be 36 next month so age is definitely a factor. Love the guy but you gotta do what’s best for the team even if it means splitting up PB&J. 

He's 36, not 38/39. Did you watch the playoffs last year against Dallas.  Pavelski is returning to their lineup at 39. Suter (ugh)at 38, Benn at 34????

I want him back,  I think this team needs him back, it's just the small detail of the number it takes. I know I first said 3.5 over two thinking about the proposal of $7/yr, ridiculous.  I'm hoping for $2.5/$2.75 and feel it's fair to all.

It comes down to BG and I believe he pays him after what I saw him do with Goose's contract both times and how much he plays.

Maybe that's the approach, less games played while we slot in another forward. 

[vonlonster67]

4 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Agreed. I could get on board with a cheap 1yr deal just to get through the last cap strapped year and get the young guns another year of development but I’m with you, anything more than that would be a mistake. 
 

He’ll be 36 next month so age is definitely a factor. Love the guy but you gotta do what’s best for the team even if it means splitting up PB&J. 

Sorry, M Nels, my topic got typed quoted to you should have been a general reply  below

[M_Nels]

2 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

He's 36, not 38/39. Did you watch the playoffs last year against Dallas.  Pavelski is returning to their lineup at 39. Suter (ugh)at 38, Benn at 34????

All good on the double quote. 
 

One big thing in those guys favor is their size. Pav’s is the smallest at 6’ 195lbs where Zucc is 5’8” and 180lbs on a good day. Not saying Zucc isn’t in as good of shape as those guys but it is a factor. 
 

Seemed like late in the season he was a tad off in his decision making. Telegraphing passes, trying to force pucks into bad areas and those blind passes to no one were frustrating to watch. Hope for his sake and the teams sake he comes out this season firing on all cylinders. The guy is absolutely impossible not to like but if his cap and roster spot can be filled with cheaper, younger players but the production stays the same then it’s hard to justify the big money. 

[Skolwild]

Trade him at the deadline, take a salary dump player back retaining half his salary and a, idk second round pick (not sure the value he could get)? He’s has to be the player that can bring the highest return at the deadline that isn’t off limits. 
 

all this “oh no kaprizov won’t know how to skate without the hobbit” business is crap. He’s been awesome and a big reason why kaprizov ascended to super star so fast. But kaprizov is a super star, and he needs long term line mates which as of today aren’t here. find out what you have post deadline in Iowa and gear up for next year. Signing him to term unless he takes a major pay cut is not helpful, because in my eyes it continues this notion that he has to keep playing with kaprizov. 
 

As you can tell, I don’t see this season through Rosie colored glass. I think this is a dump at the deadline what you can move, or aren’t resigning kind of year. Back fill with youth for 30 games to see what stick for the long term. Replace zuccy in house or next summer 

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

So for a talking point sake, who would you part with to Vancouver?

I wrote on another thread where I'd start. Here's what I wrote: 

Quote

We were backed into a corner with Fiala and ended up getting a decent return. I would say that Vancouver may also be backed into a corner with Pettersson, and I'd expect the return to be similar but higher for Pettersson due to his position. If we wait a year, we could offer Rossi, our 1st, and maybe a couple of D prospects like Peart and Johansson? Perhaps even Addison fits into that deal? 

Now, I'm not sure what Vancouver would be looking for, but when a player wants out, or has to go, the owning team is usually at a disadvantage. What helps us in this scenario is that we need to shed cap for the current year, but will have cap room for an extension. A lot of others do not have that. So, I'd look for something in the area of the Fiala deal, but a little higher.

[vonlonster67]

15 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I wrote on another thread where I'd start. Here's what I wrote: 

Now, I'm not sure what Vancouver would be looking for, but when a player wants out, or has to go, the owning team is usually at a disadvantage. What helps us in this scenario is that we need to shed cap for the current year, but will have cap room for an extension. A lot of others do not have that. So, I'd look for something in the area of the Fiala deal, but a little higher.

I'm thinking a lot more as there will be other teams who would line up to outbid the Wild.

I'm guessing they would have no interest in Peart or Johansson or Addy. Rossi is probably the throw in based off what he's shown. Our #1 is gonna be in latter half of draft in '24 .It would take #1 in '25 and Lambos to get this done,

I'd have to think that one through.....not sure at this point with Yurov and Khusnutdinov coming at the same time next year. I'd take a step back from this.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You must mean his market value is in the $4M territory, right?

Maybe the Wild try to replace him with youth at a $1M contract, but Zuccarello cannot be at that contract value. You later said relatively similar to Dumba, who signed very close to $4M, so that's why I'm guessing you typed it wrong in the 2nd line.

No, I really meant $1m. What I meant from the Dumba line wasn't what Dumba got but the interest he had and how long it took him to sign. I realize some of this was Dumba's doing since he wanted the Erik Karlsson trade to go 1st and see what happened. 

When players get to this age, I highly discount the $ value due to the injury risk. Look at what guys like Bergeron and Krecji played for. They were top 6 centers playing well below their talent value. If Zuccarello wants to come back, it would be to win, and if to win, sometimes you just have to be in it for that reason only, not the money. We all saw what Shooter did when he thought there was a guy who just wanted to play out the string. 

Zuccarello has made his money. Now it's just about if he has something left in the tank that was unaccomplished. 

[mnfaninnc]

52 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

I'm guessing they would have no interest in Peart or Johansson or Addy. Rossi is probably the throw in based off what he's shown. Our #1 is gonna be in latter half of draft in '24 .It would take #1 in '25 and Lambos to get this done,

I'm not sure that it would. Rossi would be the "prospect," Peart, Johansson would be the sweeteners, and a #1 pick. Lambos would have been much like Brandt was for the Kings, the untouchable defender. And, we know that Vancouver needs defensemen. I could see Masters also, but if I'm Guerin, I'm saying no to Lambos and Spacek. 

In context, this was for '23-24, not '24-25. It was in response to Pettersson not wanting to sign longterm with Vancouver (much like I suspect Fiala didn't want to do with the Wild). In this case, Pettersson kind of gets to pick his destination. I think he would choose the Wild as one of those teams. The team acquiring would want a contract extension in place, much like was done with Fiala. The main thing that is different is that Pettersson is a center not a wing, so his value is higher. 

I'm also not dumping off spare parts for volume. Peart, probably more than Johansson, are decent prospects. I'd say Johansson is probably farther along. Rossi is an excellent C prospect that could jump right in. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by mnfaninnc

[mnfaninnc]

15 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Seemed like late in the season he was a tad off in his decision making. Telegraphing passes, trying to force pucks into bad areas and those blind passes to no one were frustrating to watch. Hope for his sake and the teams sake he comes out this season firing on all cylinders. The guy is absolutely impossible not to like but if his cap and roster spot can be filled with cheaper, younger players but the production stays the same then it’s hard to justify the big money. 

I think we had the reason for this, the core injury. But injury is a way that production bleeds. He played through the injury, though, he wasn't nearly as effective. I thought in late January, he looked like he blew a groin. He was having trouble with his normally crisp turns. Those things tend to linger, especially at that age.

 

[mnfaninnc]

14 hours ago, Skolwild said:

As you can tell, I don’t see this season through Rosie colored glass. I think this is a dump at the deadline what you can move, or aren’t resigning kind of year. Back fill with youth for 30 games to see what stick for the long term. Replace zuccy in house or next summer 

We haven't had Rosie colored glasses for the last 3 years, yet this group has overachieved. So, what do you do if we're in the hunt? What do you do if we've got a pretty good handle on 3rd place in the division which is likely? Selling for youth isn't going to make the owner happy. 

I like prospects and getting more bullets, but at some point you've got to develop and realize that the future is now. I think we're fast approaching that time and the guys we've drafted the last 3-4 years are the guys we're running with. Extra 2nds aren't really going to move the needle.