Article: The Wild's Coaching Change Should Have Big Impact On Prospects

[Mikki Tuohy]

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[vonlonster67]

Mikki, great insight and well thought out writing.

It almost sounds like there's more to the story with Tim Army. I'm sure as time passes we will hear more tidbits here and there.

It appears the Wild do have some professionalism when it comes to that, considering how long the Suter melee took to come out.

These next two years are vital to the overall success of the franchise and its direction. Make or break.

I'm excited and hopeful,  but have that guarded Minny fan feeling ALWAYS.

[Protec]

I kinda don't care who the coaches or development guys are at those levels.

In my opinion, players know what they need to do to be successful. Sometimes there's situations or politics that can mess up players but I believe there's enough examples of guys who come into the league strong without any need for coaches and development guys to help them. 

Yes, the Wild have more players who need to polish or develop skills. Some need to learn what makes them better or holds them back but ultimately, it's their job to improve in order to make the Wild team. Systems aren't that hard to teach.

I've gone full-pessimest since yesterday and I'm forming an old-school attitude that players just need to be better. Elite coaches and development guys don't play the games. At this point in 2023, hockey players at the AHL/NHL level shouldn't have any obstacles to get the training or strength help they need to get better. The biggest difference is more likely mental. Players need to get tougher, more clever, and add grit in their heads or about their approach to playing the game, more than skill or strength. Perhaps McLean can help the young players in those areas.

Mark Stone or Matt Tkachuk for example aren't great skaters or finesse types, they're winners. Where does that come from? Can that be taught or instilled by coaching or is that type of leadership and guts built in and the Wild don't have much?

[Dango]

I was thinking about this recently about Rossi ,  Mn has had some good centers Koivu , Ekk etc  but none of them play Rossi body type lighter quicker faster finesse ,  theyre more bigger physical  style so ive wondered if anyones able to help  tutor Rossi with his style .  Thats why im wondering if we could bring in a vet center on the cheap thats similar for 1 year ,player tutor sort of role ,.    

[vonlonster67]

I agree development is ultimately up to the player, but system is important and if instilled in the AHL in prep for the  NHL it is a smoother transition.

I also believe some of the grit the Wild demand and heart is determined by the player. You need to look no further than Mason Shaw to see all of the above. He is not the biggest, fastest, or most talented with a stick, but his will, determination and "balls" are  present every minute and every second of ice time. If we could only put his will in Rossi's body.

So talent is talent and work ethic are huge and takes us to our draft pool. You look at these kids coming up and I'm always interested to hear their back story. Are they rink rats, a family of hockey players, a foundational solid family advantage? This all plays in and factors into success.

In life you are who got you there, same in hockey and that is something you cant teach or develop no matter what.

 

[Protec]

Knudi has potential to be a player that can rise to a challenge. He's had success at the international level leading Russia teams and has played in the KHL playoffs. These are the things that were considered valuable about Kunin or Greenway. Granlund too, but that didn't pay dividends for the Wild.

I think it's important to learn how to win. Experience in big moments is valuable. Some of the players who are in the playoff at the WJC or who can win in junior like Thachuk or Draisaitl who had big playoffs or won the Memorial Cup you get a sense of how these guys will perform.

I hate to say it, but with a player like Rossi who when with Austria is a perennial loser accustomed to getting crushed. Is that what teams should be looking for or would it be better to look for players who have something on their resume that shows winning or value under pressure?

The other thing that gets missed is the drive or motor players have. Shaw and Dewar are guys who are always going hard where as Gaborik took whole months off while in MN. Therefore, what's more important, skill or determination? Talent or guts? Polished skating or regular on the scoresheet?

The draft is where you get to make those choices? That's what I've questioned about the Wild and where their priorities are. I would like to see the Wild's prospects make it at a much higher rate as a result of the earlier rounds. If it takes a few years, that's okay but there's good comparable players from later in the draft or from right around where the Wild select who make it right away. So my question is why do the Wild do something else each Summer? It worked out okay with Boldy but not McBain so is it also worth considering who's committed to NCAA? Imagine if Boldy decides to play out his college hockey and refuses to sign? That might result in a return via trade but what about the time lost or the failure to get assets into the organization as quickly as possible???

I doubt the Wild see the top centers around #21. I think Brackett is gonna take another flyer on a Euro guy who is some perceived gem because that's what's gonna be available.

[mnfaninnc]

On 6/3/2023 at 5:04 PM, Protec said:

Knudi has potential to be a player that can rise to a challenge. He's had success at the international level leading Russia teams and has played in the KHL playoffs. These are the things that were considered valuable about Kunin or Greenway. Granlund too, but that didn't pay dividends for the Wild.

I think it's important to learn how to win. Experience in big moments is valuable. Some of the players who are in the playoff at the WJC or who can win in junior like Thachuk or Draisaitl who had big playoffs or won the Memorial Cup you get a sense of how these guys will perform.

I hate to say it, but with a player like Rossi who when with Austria is a perennial loser accustomed to getting crushed. Is that what teams should be looking for or would it be better to look for players who have something on their resume that shows winning or value under pressure?

The other thing that gets missed is the drive or motor players have. Shaw and Dewar are guys who are always going hard where as Gaborik took whole months off while in MN. Therefore, what's more important, skill or determination? Talent or guts? Polished skating or regular on the scoresheet?

For a 19 year old, a salary of $70,000 without a college education is a pretty nice haul. You can do a lot with that, especially over the stipend you got from you jr. team. Plus, you get meals when on the clock with the team, and you don't have to pay for traveling. Gym membership is very private and free.

But, there's something more, there are dreams of playing in the best league in the world. For some, those dreams are escalated by lifting the hardest trophy to win in sports! And herein lies the biggest question that scouts need to be asking: What would you do/give to win the Stanley Cup? Also, what is your goal as a player? Some may say to play in the NHL, that's the wrong goal for you. They must say winning Stanley Cups!

From a development standpoint, what I have noticed with several younger players coming up is that they are weak. Mostly physically, but sometimes mentally. I don't mean to offend anyone with the following statement, but my experience says that the group coming up is far weaker mentally than the previous generation. There is a terrible sense of entitlement among this group of kids that is 2 generations in the making. 

Now, that is a generality, and there is still a decent percentage of this group that don't fall into that category. The key is finding them! Some of the kids will work to the minimum. Some of them will work all the time. Why don't we look at some of the individuals?

When Eriksson Ek came into the league, he was a tall lanky kid who was used to being bigger than his competition. In the N, he wasn't. He took 2 offseasons to develop his body into a beast. IMO, he is far more chiseled than 210 lbs. He saw his weakness and he acted to get stronger. Having Koivu there probably helped him.

When Boldy finally came into the league, he, too, was tall and lanky. He had decent weight, but little upper body strength, and if caught, could get knocked down. He dedicated himself to getting stronger this past offseason and was rewarded with a much better showing in the corners and a $7m X 7 contract. He still needs more bulk, but he took a lot of strides to get there.

When Addison came into the league after 2 brief stints, he was small and played even smaller. Addison's quote which has bothered me since he said it was "I just need to keep doing what I'm doing." What he isn't doing is strengthening his already weak body, and it shows in spades. Actually, doing something different is much needed. Addison played in the Vegas series and wasn't too bad, but in the Dallas series this year, he was banished to serving coffee to Merrill and Goligoski! Addison is a 2nd round pick and should know what he needs to do, but he doesn't. He needs that coach who will honestly tell him "you must play defense" and "you must get a lot stronger." Somehow that message never got home.

Rossi is a little different. He was supposed to be a certain player and had to deal with a life threatening health scare. He has looked way too light, and way too weak. He should have been doing a lot of strength training in '21-22 and '22-23. From the looks of him, he hasn't. The tough thing is to know how much he had lost, and I'd think it was more than we all could have imagined. It would not surprise me to learn he was playing around 155 his 1st season in Iowa. You could see that he was far too small to compete effectively in the N last year, and, he wasn't nearly explosive enough. Where is he now?

Beckman and O'Rourke both needed strength, it was true with Beckman when he was up here that he could get bumped around. He looks to have filled out some, but still has that long lankiness that simply needs strength. All 3 of these guys needed coaching to get them to where they needed to be for the N. They aren't doing it themselves. They need someone on them and scheduled weigh ins and gym challenges. 

Skating is another area of concern. All these kids drafted, skating was a + in their bios, but they still need a dedicated skating coach and skating times. 

I'd like to take the Russian style in contrast. When Kaprizov came over here, he was ripped and stocky. Nobody should call him undersized. From the looks of Khus^&*(, he looks like he's getting stronger and faster at a very nice clip. I'd like an update on Yurov, as I'd expect the same thing. Lastly, and maybe the most telling, was Firstov who was loaned. He had a miserable start to the season, but closed it up very well putting up points regularly. What happened? Likely, he chose to work hard and probably had someone riding him all season.

My conclusion is that development coaches and A coaches are very important. They need to help these kids with the off ice stuff, stuff the kids have never had to do in the past. Nutrition, strength, and skill specialties are needed to develop these kids properly. They need to be accountable and watched a little harder. Motivation to play isn't their biggest challenge, it is motivation to do the off ice training that is needed so badly. I disagree that the coaches don't play a tremendous role in getting these guys ready, and since our team will likely be so young next season, it is the perfect time for a recent NHL coach to take over.

I was hoping for more than just McLean to go down, maybe Woods too. These kids need NHL calibre coaching down there, and they need to be ridden hard. Teaching and getting them used to these habits is a chore but highly needed. A lot of these kids have never had that because they've been so good. I'd almost like to see a basic training type of thing at the beginning of training camp. We are going to need guys who have that extra gear needed come playoff time, this is where that gear starts to be built!

[MNCountryLife]

On 6/3/2023 at 11:38 AM, Protec said:

Mark Stone or Matt Tkachuk for example aren't great skaters or finesse types, they're winners. Where does that come from? Can that be taught or instilled by coaching or is that type of leadership and guts built in and the Wild don't have much?

Kirill, Stone and Tkachuk are rare players.  The rest exist because of very good coaching and hard work.    I'm a very big believer in the importance of a very good coaching staff.  It's the difference between playing as a team vs individually.  The former almost always wins out.  Coaches should be consistently trying to hone their skills.  The IA coaches should be judged by the ability to transition kids to successful careers in MN faster than other AHL teams.

[Up North Guy]

54 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

For a 19 year old, a salary of $70,000 without a college education is a pretty nice haul. You can do a lot with that, especially over the stipend you got from you jr. team. Plus, you get meals when on the clock with the team, and you don't have to pay for traveling. Gym membership is very private and free.

But, there's something more, there are dreams of playing in the best league in the world. For some, those dreams are escalated by lifting the hardest trophy to win in sports! And herein lies the biggest question that scouts need to be asking: What would you do/give to win the Stanley Cup? Also, what is your goal as a player? Some may say to play in the NHL, that's the wrong goal for you. They must say winning Stanley Cups!

From a development standpoint, what I have noticed with several younger players coming up is that they are weak. Mostly physically, but sometimes mentally. I don't mean to offend anyone with the following statement, but my experience says that the group coming up is far weaker mentally than the previous generation. There is a terrible sense of entitlement among this group of kids that is 2 generations in the making. 

Now, that is a generality, and there is still a decent percentage of this group that don't fall into that category. The key is finding them! Some of the kids will work to the minimum. Some of them will work all the time. Why don't we look at some of the individuals?

When Eriksson Ek came into the league, he was a tall lanky kid who was used to being bigger than his competition. In the N, he wasn't. He took 2 offseasons to develop his body into a beast. IMO, he is far more chiseled than 210 lbs. He saw his weakness and he acted to get stronger. Having Koivu there probably helped him.

When Boldy finally came into the league, he, too, was tall and lanky. He had decent weight, but little upper body strength, and if caught, could get knocked down. He dedicated himself to getting stronger this past offseason and was rewarded with a much better showing in the corners and a $7m X 7 contract. He still needs more bulk, but he took a lot of strides to get there.

When Addison came into the league after 2 brief stints, he was small and played even smaller. Addison's quote which has bothered me since he said it was "I just need to keep doing what I'm doing." What he isn't doing is strengthening his already weak body, and it shows in spades. Actually, doing something different is much needed. Addison played in the Vegas series and wasn't too bad, but in the Dallas series this year, he was banished to serving coffee to Merrill and Goligoski! Addison is a 2nd round pick and should know what he needs to do, but he doesn't. He needs that coach who will honestly tell him "you must play defense" and "you must get a lot stronger." Somehow that message never got home.

Rossi is a little different. He was supposed to be a certain player and had to deal with a life threatening health scare. He has looked way too light, and way too weak. He should have been doing a lot of strength training in '21-22 and '22-23. From the looks of him, he hasn't. The tough thing is to know how much he had lost, and I'd think it was more than we all could have imagined. It would not surprise me to learn he was playing around 155 his 1st season in Iowa. You could see that he was far too small to compete effectively in the N last year, and, he wasn't nearly explosive enough. Where is he now?

Beckman and O'Rourke both needed strength, it was true with Beckman when he was up here that he could get bumped around. He looks to have filled out some, but still has that long lankiness that simply needs strength. All 3 of these guys needed coaching to get them to where they needed to be for the N. They aren't doing it themselves. They need someone on them and scheduled weigh ins and gym challenges. 

Skating is another area of concern. All these kids drafted, skating was a + in their bios, but they still need a dedicated skating coach and skating times. 

I'd like to take the Russian style in contrast. When Kaprizov came over here, he was ripped and stocky. Nobody should call him undersized. From the looks of Khus^&*(, he looks like he's getting stronger and faster at a very nice clip. I'd like an update on Yurov, as I'd expect the same thing. Lastly, and maybe the most telling, was Firstov who was loaned. He had a miserable start to the season, but closed it up very well putting up points regularly. What happened? Likely, he chose to work hard and probably had someone riding him all season.

My conclusion is that development coaches and A coaches are very important. They need to help these kids with the off ice stuff, stuff the kids have never had to do in the past. Nutrition, strength, and skill specialties are needed to develop these kids properly. They need to be accountable and watched a little harder. Motivation to play isn't their biggest challenge, it is motivation to do the off ice training that is needed so badly. I disagree that the coaches don't play a tremendous role in getting these guys ready, and since our team will likely be so young next season, it is the perfect time for a recent NHL coach to take over.

I was hoping for more than just McLean to go down, maybe Woods too. These kids need NHL calibre coaching down there, and they need to be ridden hard. Teaching and getting them used to these habits is a chore but highly needed. A lot of these kids have never had that because they've been so good. I'd almost like to see a basic training type of thing at the beginning of training camp. We are going to need guys who have that extra gear needed come playoff time, this is where that gear starts to be built!

Two others are Gus and the Wall. They both needed to get much stronger and in better shape. They apparently took it to heart and worked all year to improve. They both were told (as reported) to get even stronger and in better shape this off season.

[mnfaninnc]

18 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

Two others are Gus and the Wall. They both needed to get much stronger and in better shape. They apparently took it to heart and worked all year to improve. They both were told (as reported) to get even stronger and in better shape this off season.

I had not caught that challenge, but thank you for mentioning it. It's good to see that both players are accepting the challenge. I also think both of these goalies will work well together as a tandem, and seem to both be real coachable. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

It raises an eyebrow that the architect of our lackluster special teams got the AHL head coaching job. Well I believe the  insight above to be true it seems like really bad optics to give a coach a promotion after his primary area of concern was a bit of a disaster.

I think we are going to lose good young players to other teams by demanding they play our identity instead of tailoring lines to individual skill sets. We need the finesse scoring players every bit as much as our rough and tumble heavy hitters. It doesn't seem like we are setting ourselves up for success by demanding a style of play a guy isn't suited for. 

I think Judd and Billy need to get on the same page. If you are going to demand rough and tumble play, we should be drafting like it. No taking small European players and expected them to hit everything in sight. Seems like we are shooting ourselves in the foot a little looking at our prospect pool and demanding them to play to our "identity".

[HIGGIJ27]

They need a coach for the wild if they are ever going to win a series