Article: Wilderness Walk: Cup Final Soon

[Thomas Williams]

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[mnfaninnc]

CHL Update- Seattle whipped Kamloops 6-1 last night, putting Kamloops in 3rd place and playing tonight against Petersborough. Bankier had another ugly night at no points and -2. I think Russo reported that Masters is out about 3 months with his injury. It will affect his summer offseason program and the start of his professional career. Tough break for the kid who had a breakthrough season this year. It might be worth letting him play an overaged year in the W next season. It will be a crowded, young defensive corps, and icetime will be a premium. 

Of course, you could bring him along slowly in the A and let him work up to it. At least he'd be with his teammates.

 

[mnfaninnc]

We briefly talked yesterday about John Hynes being available, tight with Shooter, and a possible solution to our open bench coach position. 

Here's a good article on the pros and cons of Hynes:

https://predlines.com/2023/04/14/nashville-predators-hynes-case/

From the article, it appears that Hynes' style of coaching is very similar to Evason's. He values grit and forechecking offense.

Herein lies the problem we have: Brackett has drafted us some nice skill guys who are physically small, either in height or weight. At some point, we're going to have to transition into a skill team and not be so gritty. When this happens, we're going to need to attack and outscore teams while still playing within our structure and keeping goals against down. It will require an excellent transition game, not a forechecking, wear them down game. 

Can Hynes be the kind of guy who would switch to that? Maybe, but he hasn't shown it. Perhaps it's because his rosters haven't been built that way to date, and he's done the best with what he's been given. He might be a good candidate for Evason's bench, but, I don't know that he would be the right candidate to take over if Evason isn't here anymore. Someone who can develop and appreciates the skill aspect would be a better selection, and that type of guy is Keefe. Marty St. Louis is probably also that type of coach.

One problem we have right now is that Evason believes in playing the grit way, and so do our player development guys. We've got no playing style diversity within the organization. This needs to change. We still need a grit voice in the room, but not all the voices. Where are our skilled voices? Maybe Modano can be more of a voice, but everyone else is really grit first. 

And while we're on this subject, could Bob Motzko ever be a decent NHL coach, maybe even for us?

[Up North Guy]

38 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We briefly talked yesterday about John Hynes being available, tight with Shooter, and a possible solution to our open bench coach position. 

Here's a good article on the pros and cons of Hynes:

https://predlines.com/2023/04/14/nashville-predators-hynes-case/

From the article, it appears that Hynes' style of coaching is very similar to Evason's. He values grit and forechecking offense.

Herein lies the problem we have: Brackett has drafted us some nice skill guys who are physically small, either in height or weight. At some point, we're going to have to transition into a skill team and not be so gritty. When this happens, we're going to need to attack and outscore teams while still playing within our structure and keeping goals against down. It will require an excellent transition game, not a forechecking, wear them down game. 

Can Hynes be the kind of guy who would switch to that? Maybe, but he hasn't shown it. Perhaps it's because his rosters haven't been built that way to date, and he's done the best with what he's been given. He might be a good candidate for Evason's bench, but, I don't know that he would be the right candidate to take over if Evason isn't here anymore. Someone who can develop and appreciates the skill aspect would be a better selection, and that type of guy is Keefe. Marty St. Louis is probably also that type of coach.

One problem we have right now is that Evason believes in playing the grit way, and so do our player development guys. We've got no playing style diversity within the organization. This needs to change. We still need a grit voice in the room, but not all the voices. Where are our skilled voices? Maybe Modano can be more of a voice, but everyone else is really grit first. 

And while we're on this subject, could Bob Motzko ever be a decent NHL coach, maybe even for us?

First, I don't think Motzko would ever move to the pros. I think his coaching style and personality would be difficult in the NHL. 

I totally agree on the way the team is built versus the way they are coached to play. There is a big disconnect within the organization and BG needs to fix that. The biggest issue I see with trying to change, is do they have enough speed/skill guys to run it? I am not convinced. If you play run and gun forward offense you better have shutdown strong defense.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Up North Guy said:

I totally agree on the way the team is built versus the way they are coached to play. There is a big disconnect within the organization and BG needs to fix that. The biggest issue I see with trying to change, is do they have enough speed/skill guys to run it? I am not convinced. If you play run and gun forward offense you better have shutdown strong defense.

So, what does strong shutdown defense look like? Does it look like Middleton? Does it look like Brodin, Faber? Does it look like responsible defenders who can skate up with the forwards, yet is a good enough skater to get back, like a Spurgeon? Does it look like a bunch of redwoods, or, maybe just rows of pine trees?

Does it look like:

• Faber
• Brodin
• Middleton
• Spurgeon
• O'Rourke
• Hunt 
• Peart
• Lambos 
• Spacek
• Masters
• Addison

For starters, I think if you're looking at that defense, you can't really protect Addison on the 3rd pairing, so you'd essentially save him for PP time, and maybe late game come from behind and run with a rotation of 5, or, you play 11-7 and save Addison for a "break glass when we get a PP." One would think if you go run & gun, you would be drawing more penalties.

I just don't see this scenario working out that well. The other option is trading Addison to help us acquire something we don't have. Also, if you do go run & gun, it is important to have strength down the middle, a weakness currently on our roster and in our system. 

Our prospect pool has been built with a solid large bodied goaltender. Also, one we rescued from the scrap heap with a similar body type and training. Our defenders are puck moving middleweights with a couple of shut down options. Our forwards are smallish, both in height/weight, though we have some occasional height. We don't have much grit in there. We also don't appear to have a lot of strength in there. 

Perhaps someone can explain to me how the above paragraph can be glued together as a Stanley Cup contender? I'm not really seeing the vision. In fact, it seems like it's opposite the look most Stanley Cup contenders look like.

[Up North Guy]

25 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

So, what does strong shutdown defense look like? Does it look like Middleton? Does it look like Brodin, Faber? Does it look like responsible defenders who can skate up with the forwards, yet is a good enough skater to get back, like a Spurgeon? Does it look like a bunch of redwoods, or, maybe just rows of pine trees?

Does it look like:

• Faber
• Brodin
• Middleton
• Spurgeon
• O'Rourke
• Hunt 
• Peart
• Lambos 
• Spacek
• Masters
• Addison

For starters, I think if you're looking at that defense, you can't really protect Addison on the 3rd pairing, so you'd essentially save him for PP time, and maybe late game come from behind and run with a rotation of 5, or, you play 11-7 and save Addison for a "break glass when we get a PP." One would think if you go run & gun, you would be drawing more penalties.

I just don't see this scenario working out that well. The other option is trading Addison to help us acquire something we don't have. Also, if you do go run & gun, it is important to have strength down the middle, a weakness currently on our roster and in our system. 

Our prospect pool has been built with a solid large bodied goaltender. Also, one we rescued from the scrap heap with a similar body type and training. Our defenders are puck moving middleweights with a couple of shut down options. Our forwards are smallish, both in height/weight, though we have some occasional height. We don't have much grit in there. We also don't appear to have a lot of strength in there. 

Perhaps someone can explain to me how the above paragraph can be glued together as a Stanley Cup contender? I'm not really seeing the vision. In fact, it seems like it's opposite the look most Stanley Cup contenders look like.

And there in lies the problem. BG needs to be very active on the trade market (or as much as the cap will allow). I know he likes to make "hockey trades" but he may need to fleece a few GM's. He took a chance and won the Gus trade and he needs more of that. I don't expect success the next two years but I would shoot for the end of cap hell. Trade anyone that will not lead to that success for a player that will fill a need. Buy low - sell high has to be a guide.

[Will D. Ness]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Does it look like a bunch of redwoods, or, maybe just rows of pine trees?

Shutdown defense is the balance of speed and power.  I would say it mirrors safeties more than say linebackers for the NHL.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

Shutdown defense is the balance of speed and power.  I would say it mirrors safeties more than say linebackers for the NHL.

It looks like Brackett is very concerned with the speed, as he has drafted defenders who are excellent skaters. You cannot have the "power" aspect in just one guy, Middleton. So, where do we get this power part of the equation?

To me, it doesn't appear as if this is a concern. To play "right," you need the option of the bodycheck and eliminating/erasing and opposing player. This bunch of prospects does not appear to have this in their arsenal. 

And, we've seen from the eye test, Addison is allergic to this part of the game.

[Willy the poor boy]

22 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

And there in lies the problem. BG needs to be very active on the trade market (or as much as the cap will allow). I know he likes to make "hockey trades" but he may need to fleece a few GM's. He took a chance and won the Gus trade and he needs more of that. I don't expect success the next two years but I would shoot for the end of cap hell. Trade anyone that will not lead to that success for a player that will fill a need. Buy low - sell high has to be a guide.

Agreed, being Mr. Nice Guy in trades is a recipe for disaster. That kindness will never be repaid in any significant way. It's a cut throat world.

[mnfaninnc]

CHL Update- My final update of the season: Kamloops fell to Petersborough 4-5 in OT. Bankier produced a PP apple, and was a +1 on the night, but it wasn't enough. After crushing the Petes earlier in the tournament, the game that saw Masters get hurt, was it a missing Masters that was the difference?

Kamloops season is finally over. Time for Bankier to pack his bags (and hopefully his game) and head to Iowa. I'm hoping that Iowa works him out at center, as it appears he was playing LW for Kamloops. It's no mystery that we already have too many at that position!

Also, Bankier put up 17 PIMs in the tournament. To me that sounds like a minor, a fight, and a misconduct.

After watching the highlights, Kamloops went out to a 4-1 lead and then let the Petes tie it up in the 2nd period. There was at least 1 play, possibly 2 where not having Masters available probably led to 2 goals against. I can find no video of a Bankier fight or misconduct.

[mnfaninnc]

Followup, I did finally see the fight against Chase Stillman. Apparently, Stillman crushed Bankier's linemate with a tremendous open ice hit. Bankier took exception to it and stood up for his teammate, good for Bankier, he'll need to do more of that. Stillman, then owned Bankier in the fight pounding him twice in the face and getting a knockdown. 

Incidentally, this seemed to be the catalyst for the Pete's turnaround in the game. According to the stats, Bankier was credited with an apple, according to the writeup, he was given credit for a goal. On the replay, either he or a teammate could have tipped it in as we lose sight of the puck, but it looked like it initially hit Bankier's stick. 

So, along with Bankier's game, he's going to need some boxing lessons when he gets to Iowa. He left his face wide open and threw nothing in the 8 seconds I could see. He'll need to be able to handle himself, and it doesn't look like he's learned to do that yet.

Incidentally, he is listed at 6'2" 192 on Dobber. He has grown late as I saw him listed at 6' 170 on another site. Just looking at his picture, he looks like he needs time in the gym. He's only 20, but a late growth spurt would suggest he hasn't matured yet.

[Will D. Ness]

On 6/2/2023 at 7:36 AM, mnfaninnc said:

It looks like Brackett is very concerned with the speed, as he has drafted defenders who are excellent skaters. You cannot have the "power" aspect in just one guy, Middleton. So, where do we get this power part of the equation?

To me, it doesn't appear as if this is a concern. To play "right," you need the option of the bodycheck and eliminating/erasing and opposing player. This bunch of prospects does not appear to have this in their arsenal. 

And, we've seen from the eye test, Addison is allergic to this part of the game.

IMO and I'm kind of winging it here, is that the prototypical shut down defender would be a Brodin type.  Fast, agile, and defensive minded but still big enough to battle.  Heiskanen is another good one.  I think Faber fits this mold as well and it should be fun to see if he does become one of these prototypical defensive minded shutdown types.  

I agree though that we need a little more size and power ala Middleton.  Pairing up Spurg and Middleton somewhat brings a balance as we all know and is quite effective really in this shutdown type of defense.

Addison?  Nope... he refuses to even play defense.  Prospects?  Yeah they look a little small to me as well.  

I would argue we have the same problem on offense.  We haven't drafted enough size... but of course size/speed is always going to be highly sought after and will go high in the draft.