Article: The Wild Are Playing the Long Game

[Mikki Tuohy]

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[Backwoodsbob]

Quote

 Minnesota sports fans are some of the most impatient in the league.

 

I don't understand how you can say this. Many of us fans have been dealing with disappointment for many years and to say that we are some of the most impatient fans is just WRONG!

The fact that Ek is hurt and out of the line up, does show how much the team relies on his play. Unfortunately we have no player that can fill his skates but this is a team sport so no excuses!

[mnfaninnc]

Quote

In a time when hockey has been trending toward speed and skill, the Wild are on the leading edge of pushing that pendulum back toward big, physical play. This year especially, the Wild have been a team to fear. 

But being a trendsetter is hard. It will take time for the rest of the league to recognize and follow suit. The Wild are often penalized because they’re not afraid to finish their checks and drop the mitts if needed. They carry a reputation that makes the officials call a tighter game, and that can be a hard pill to swallow.

Mikki, I've got to call you out on this statement as it simply isn't accurate.  We've got some large players on this team, but we've also got far too many light ones to be considered big.  Take a look at the right side of our defense, for example. 

Until the deadline, we were even smaller, and will be smaller again next season when more kids come.  They will be bringing skill with them, not necessarily grit. I do not believe this makes referees call a tighter game.

We have a reputation, alright, with the referees. We are seen as a team that gives a lot of lip service to the officiating crews, but back up little. We whine, complain, and bark. But, there is little threat of anything else. Teams like Boston and Philly also have a reputation, those teams dictate officiating crews call tighter games, and many times tilt the ice in favor of those franchises or they could lose control of the game.  

There are favored organizations in this league. We are not one of them, yet. We've got 1 superstar, 2 stars, and some very good defense. Should we get a couple of more stars in the lineup, we might change that needle. However, what would help more is the threat that pandemonium could happen, that our team would collectively lose their minds and embarrass the referees and the league! This is what Boston and Philly subconsciously bring to every refereeing crew that enters their ice. 

Currently, there is no favored team in the Central division. Chicago, the previous favored franchise threw that away when they embarrassed the league with the coaching scandal. Colorado is as close as it gets because of their star players. The league and the referees will not protect our players. The only thing that will change this reputation is, well, bedlam on the ice! 

That goes for the fans too, rabid fans that bring claustrophobia to the ice surface are needed. Boston, New York, Philly have no problem bringing this intimidation into their buildings. Minnesota nice needs to be turned upside down once you enter the building. We need some bonecrushing checks, and some line brawls on the ice, not all the time, but enough on our ice for officials to come into the building a little scared. 

Currently, our reputation sucks and needs to change. I can't think of any better way of doing it. 

[mnfaninnc]

Quote

It can be challenging for fans to be patient because they aren’t privy to the long-term vision for the Wild. Minnesota sports fans are some of the most impatient in the league. Fans need to be willing to commit right alongside the players. It might take several years, but one thing is for sure: the Minnesota Wild are transforming into a Cup-winning team.

I think I get what you're saying here. I don't know that I can agree that Minnesota fans are the most impatient in the league, I'd say a couple of handfuls of East Coast teams are more impatient than Minnesota is.  

However, there is a longterm vision in place. It happened when they drafted the right goalie for them: The Wall. They built from the back out with O'Rourke, Peart, Lambos, Hunt, Faber, and maybe even Masters. They've put some good forward prospects in the system in Rossi, Beckman, Boldy, Ohgren, Yurov, Bankier, Haight, Petrovsky. More offense and skill is needed and most of these guys are still developing.

Short term, we have a lot of placeholders on this team.  They are still there, and when the prospects are ready, they'll be moved in. Shooter isn't giving them a spot, they must earn it by beating a placeholder out of his job. We've got a lot of the pieces in the system, though they're not in MN yet. More will be on their way the next 2 years. 

We've got a bright future ahead of us, but we signed up for this. The placeholders have overachieved these past 3 years, but I think we've had some really good draft picks. Hopefully, many of these guys will be able to make the jump!

[Millante]

Kind of have a right to be impatient after 55+ years with nothing to show for it. (Yes, I count the lost decade. I personally count it in the drought regardless of what everyone else does.)

For the love of god, it's the Wild's 24th season next season. At least the North Stars made it to the finals twice in 24 seasons.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Millante

[AKwildkraken]

4 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think I get what you're saying here. I don't know that I can agree that Minnesota fans are the most impatient in the league, I'd say a couple of handfuls of East Coast teams are more impatient than Minnesota is.  

However, there is a longterm vision in place. It happened when they drafted the right goalie for them: The Wall. They built from the back out with O'Rourke, Peart, Lambos, Hunt, Faber, and maybe even Masters. They've put some good forward prospects in the system in Rossi, Beckman, Boldy, Ohgren, Yurov, Bankier, Haight, Petrovsky. More offense and skill is needed and most of these guys are still developing.

Short term, we have a lot of placeholders on this team.  They are still there, and when the prospects are ready, they'll be moved in. Shooter isn't giving them a spot, they must earn it by beating a placeholder out of his job. We've got a lot of the pieces in the system, though they're not in MN yet. More will be on their way the next 2 years. 

We've got a bright future ahead of us, but we signed up for this. The placeholders have overachieved these past 3 years, but I think we've had some really good draft picks. Hopefully, many of these guys will be able to make the jump!

We also have Spacek on D, plus Walker and Khusnudetsnov. I hate to say it, but the next couple of years could be rough, but perhaps we'll trade some assets at next year's trade deadline.  Of course that depends on how well we play next year......

Lol, we still have the draft and off-season to go through, and I'm already thinking 10 months ahead.  So much for patience...

[Jon]

7 hours ago, Backwoodsbob said:

I don't understand how you can say this. Many of us fans have been dealing with disappointment for many years and to say that we are some of the most impatient fans is just WRONG!

The fact that Ek is hurt and out of the line up, does show how much the team relies on his play. Unfortunately we have no player that can fill his skates but this is a team sport so no excuses!

I think Mikki is saying for a lot of fans that they have a knee-jerk reaction to events that don’t convey a sense of support, patience, and positivity. There’s a majority of fans in my experience who will find 25 bad things for every good thing. 

Yes, the decades of disappointment and frustration is nothing to scoff at or dismiss. I guess I can understand where Mikki is coming from because it really dampens the mood when I read waves of moody opinions without much care to nurture hope or other things to look forward to. Take the 2014 playoff game between the Seahawks and Vikings for example, Blair Walsh was THE reason for keeping the Vikings in the game. Yet, when he has to face the pressure of a whole season on the line, in Arctic conditions, in such a small window of time to execute his mechanics perfectly, he missed.

The reaction of the fans for me? Despicable. Many made their hate known and others showed kicking fields, insinuating how ‘easy’ it is. The fans don’t have anywhere a clue what it takes to be an NFL player. That kind of reaction pushed me away from the Vikings. It’s hard to want to be a fan when so many can degrade their own team, and one player, like that. 

Impatience might just be a nice word for the not-so-nice side of Minnesota Sports fandom. It was very easy for me to see it this year with the Stars-Wild series in the Athletic threads. 

I have continued and high hopes for the Wild. It’s okay to feel frustrated, angry, tired, whatever about however long one has endured Minnesota sports lore, BUT, it wouldn’t hurt if there was some more intentional focus on the good things too. 

[Jon]

3 hours ago, Millante said:

Kind of have a right to be impatient after 55+ years with nothing to show for it. (Yes, I count the lost decade. I personally count it in the drought regardless of what everyone else does.)

For the love of god, it's the Wild's 24th season next season. At least the North Stars made it to the finals twice in 24 seasons.

Yikes.

[Jon]

6 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Mikki, I've got to call you out on this statement as it simply isn't accurate.  We've got some large players on this team, but we've also got far too many light ones to be considered big.  Take a look at the right side of our defense, for example. 

Until the deadline, we were even smaller, and will be smaller again next season when more kids come.  They will be bringing skill with them, not necessarily grit. I do not believe this makes referees call a tighter game.

We have a reputation, alright, with the referees. We are seen as a team that gives a lot of lip service to the officiating crews, but back up little. We whine, complain, and bark. But, there is little threat of anything else. Teams like Boston and Philly also have a reputation, those teams dictate officiating crews call tighter games, and many times tilt the ice in favor of those franchises or they could lose control of the game.  

There are favored organizations in this league. We are not one of them, yet. We've got 1 superstar, 2 stars, and some very good defense. Should we get a couple of more stars in the lineup, we might change that needle. However, what would help more is the threat that pandemonium could happen, that our team would collectively lose their minds and embarrass the referees and the league! This is what Boston and Philly subconsciously bring to every refereeing crew that enters their ice. 

Currently, there is no favored team in the Central division. Chicago, the previous favored franchise threw that away when they embarrassed the league with the coaching scandal. Colorado is as close as it gets because of their star players. The league and the referees will not protect our players. The only thing that will change this reputation is, well, bedlam on the ice! 

That goes for the fans too, rabid fans that bring claustrophobia to the ice surface are needed. Boston, New York, Philly have no problem bringing this intimidation into their buildings. Minnesota nice needs to be turned upside down once you enter the building. We need some bonecrushing checks, and some line brawls on the ice, not all the time, but enough on our ice for officials to come into the building a little scared. 

Currently, our reputation sucks and needs to change. I can't think of any better way of doing it. 

I wouldn’t call either of you wrong. I’m seeing this as a fan’s callout for a contributor’s thoughts by way of dichotomous thinking. Again, don’t think either of you are wrong, but in fact have merit for how one another sees things. 

In every facet of society, history indeed swings on a pendulum. I wonder what she meant by ‘big, physical play.’ I took that as laying the body and playing right defense, not necessarily just big bodies going around. 

So to say she simply isn’t accurate about her own insight is… well, amusing to me. I might argue that bedlam on ice is not the ONLY way to change a reputation, for example lol. 

I took this article as a reminder for optimism above all else. Your insight has good points for reasonable speculation. I guess to me, it will never be an exact science how one changes their fortunes. As long as you have reason to hope and truly hope, it doesn’t matter how one gets there. And I think you both have a good case for how things may change! 

[Beast]

Cringe.

[mnfaninnc]

8 hours ago, Jon said:

I took this article as a reminder for optimism above all else. Your insight has good points for reasonable speculation. I guess to me, it will never be an exact science how one changes their fortunes. As long as you have reason to hope and truly hope, it doesn’t matter how one gets there. And I think you both have a good case for how things may change! 

Perhaps it came across as too negative to some, but, let me put into context. Coming into the season, I had little expectation that we would be invited to the playoffs. I thought we had too much to overcome. When the February swoon came, I thought we were cooked, and was looking forward to ping pong balls.

By all accounts, I wasn't disappointed because I knew better days were ahead. I am pretty bullish on the prospect pool, and while Rossi isn't ready yet, I do think he will eventually be. Addison, IMO, won't be, though.  It's time to trade him out. He can put up points, but he certainly doesn't fit this current teams' philosophy.

I would have to say this was a disappointing end to the season. I am very frustrated with how referees and the league treat this franchise when they should be promoting it. It's not a large market, but can act like one and should be the best of the middle markets with much more knowledgeable and excited fans. I also see a lot of holes that need to be fixed, and where we have strengths in our system.  

Shooter has done a good job of filling an NHL roster with placeholders who can be successful. He is building a team that will be very good, and isn't rushing the talent, he's seasoning them.  This has not been the approach used by this franchise since he took over.  Fletcher started that way, but couldn't season the kids enough when Suter and Parise fell into his lap.  He also wasn't very good at cap management and team chemistry. Guerin has changed the culture for the better, and is developing prospects not on our timeline, but on theirs, each one is different. 

This year's goal, for me, was to watch the improvement of the kids, and get excited about that. It was obvious that Rossi just wasn't ready, and may still not even be. It was good to see Walker look good, and Beckman get his goal even though it was disallowed. I really liked watching Duhaime, Dewar, and Shaw progress. Faber was outstanding I thought, and it was sad to see Addison's defensive play, even though it was predictable. I also was bullish on Goose2 the moment he was traded here.

It was a successful season even though it didn't end favorably.

[mnfaninnc]

CHL Update-Sherbrooke won its opening game, Spacek was clean on the score sheet

Kamloops lost its opening game, Bankier was a -1, Masters was -3 with 2 high sticking penalties.

[Protec]

Spacek is the guy I'm most hopeful about of the defense prospects. Knudi, and Yurov both have good potential from what I've seen due to their steady progression in the KHL. Bankier also looks pretty okay for now.

As much as I was hearing about the Wild's prospect pool being super great, I'm blowing that off as pure speculation. I'm looking forward to seeing Beckman make it and for there to be some type of conclusion on Rossi and Addison. Then to see the Russians have big KHL seasons to validate those selections.

Like Pewterschmidt, I'm not seeing the elite Swede-iness yet in Ohgren. I am ready for a Foligno replacement or a Zuccarello trade. My gut tells me that each guy plays their last season in MN next year.

[Jon]

5 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Perhaps it came across as too negative to some, but, let me put into context. Coming into the season, I had little expectation that we would be invited to the playoffs. I thought we had too much to overcome. When the February swoon came, I thought we were cooked, and was looking forward to ping pong balls.

It was a successful season even though it didn't end favorably.

I agree with you for pretty much all of what you said. I thought it was an overachieving team. Hopefully the young players will be treated better as a whole from an organizational standpoint.

I wasn’t necessarily thinking you were coming off as too negative, to be clear. I was trying to say you have a good viewpoint, and I think Mikki does as well. Both of you have optimism, which is what I’m looking for and enjoy.

You said specifically “Mikki, I've got to call you out on this statement as it simply isn't accurate.” If you meant that literally, I found it amusing how someone can be wrong about their own opinion, or in other words, there can only be a certain number of right answers?
 

 

[WheelSnipeCelly]

Side note (and I could have this wrong), but with the Kraken winning their series against the Avs and the Panthers winning against the Bruins, the Wild should move up 2 spots in the draft (I think), so should be picking at #20! 

17. Islanders
18. Jets
19. Lightning
20. Wild
21. Kings

[Millante]

1 hour ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

with the Kraken winning their series against the Avs and the Panthers winning against the Bruins,

This was the best news I could have from another first round bounce from us. Record breaking President's Trophy gets bounced... previous year's champion gets bounced... Tampa got bounced, which also makes me happy... sick of 'champabay.' Now if the Leafs could lose in the second round just to piss off all the Toronto people... I would be sooooooo happy.

Although... again, I'm frustrated... because once again, the newest team is beating all expectations and gets out of the first round. I'll only be REALLY upset if they pull a 'late' Vegas and get to the Finals their second year instead of their first. If they make conference and lose, I'll give it to them, we did it in our 3rd season (barely)... and have yet to ever make it back.

Guess I'm an Oilers fan for the rest of the playoffs... I literally hate every other remaining team for various reasons. Except the Kraken... don't hate them, just don't want that whole thing mentioned above happening.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Millante

[Imyourhuckleberry]

On 4/29/2023 at 5:36 PM, Backwoodsbob said:

The fact that Ek is hurt and out of the line up, does show how much the team relies on his play. Unfortunately we have no player that can fill his skates but this is a team sport so no excuses!

It's not really an excuse so much as a reason. Colorado just lost to the Kraken. I don't think that happens if the Avalanche are at full strength, but they weren't and they lost.

As disappointing as the loss to the Stars is, I don't think it's half as disappointing as the Boston loss is to their fans. With JEE out and KK97 playing injured, it simply makes sense that the Stars were the better team.

What are the reasons that the Bruins lost to the 8th place team in the East?

Based upon the current landscape, I wouldn't be shocked to see the Stars win the cup.

[MNCountryLife]

The last 2 playoffs the Wild have had a horrific PK.  The 5v5 has been fantastic.  Unless we solve the PK problem we will never be a cup contender.  The playoffs exposed it clearly.   Yes, Ek and Shaw were missing and that was a major issue.  But if the next man up isn't capable of running the PK for whatever reason than we need a new strategy for the PK.  This is completely on BG and Dean.  They need to do their homework this summer on teams around the league and how they have a successful PK.  Study them all and figure out which one our players are capable of executing.

I didn't like the 4 square PK we had last year and I like the high man circling both sides even less.  I also don't like how we pressure everything.  If the opposing team has control of the puck in the far corners of the blue line leave them alone.  They are not a threat up there.  Let them waste time up there.   The players must know when to pressure and when to retract and sit back.  It is obvious that they are told to pressure everything.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Just a few notes:

I disagree that the Wild are trendsetting in any way. The playoffs have traditionally been where physicality ramps up and the Wild haven't always been able to handle teams playing that way.

The fact they got screwed by the refs isn't because they are playing some new way that needs adjusting, it's primarily just that the refs blew a bunch of calls in this series, perhaps tilting in favor of the Stars partially due to Pavelski hitting his head on the ice in game 1 from a fairly clean, but physical hit from Dumba.

All fans are generally impatient, and Minnesota fans are not more so than others--you simply hear more from fans of the team you follow.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure Guerin can afford to keep him, but of all the guys brought in at the trade deadline, Nyquist is the guy I'd most like to see back with the Wild.

Boldy and Johansson had that great game 3, but outside of that, without JEE, that line got cooked by the Stars, with Boldy and Johansson both finishing -5 for the series.

I had mentioned that JEE was going to have to do some heavy lifting on the defensive end with those 2 as his linemates, and he had been up for the task prior to injury.

Also, the Stars scored zero goals when Faber was on the ice!

[mnfaninnc]

20 hours ago, Jon said:

If you meant that literally, I found it amusing how someone can be wrong about their own opinion, or in other words, there can only be a certain number of right answers?

I did mean that literally. We had some big guys, but also a lot of small guys. Some of our small guys punched above their weight class, but for her statement to be true, our lineup would need defense all 6'2" 210 or above. We have 1 guy who meets that description. We'd need most of our forwards to be in the 6'3" 220 class and have large centers.  That simply isn't the case. 

It's more of a hybrid team that wants to be gritty, has the skill to be gritty, but not the body type to be effectively gritty. This is one reason why O'Rourke needs a serious strength program this summer, his game needs him at about 215 to be effective in the N. I believe it was Kyle, who wrote an awful lot like Beast does who suggested that weight isn't everything. And, he's right, but some games need that added mass to do it right.  Hunt, Faber, Lambos and Spacek all need to add bulk, but are closer.

Same goes for pretty much all of our forward prospects, and let's not forget Addison. Most of our guys are in the middleweight height/weight class. The reason they need bulk is to withstand the hits/grind of an NHL season. And, if Evason is expecting them to be a gritty team again next season, then they will need to adapt, and specifically in the case of Addison and Rossi, it is on the player to transform themselves into what the coach needs from them.  

You know who might be a good free agent acquisition? A guy like Max Domi. He'll probably be too expensive, though. He plays exactly the way Evason wants the game played. 

 

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

Side note (and I could have this wrong), but with the Kraken winning their series against the Avs and the Panthers winning against the Bruins, the Wild should move up 2 spots in the draft (I think), so should be picking at #20! 

17. Islanders
18. Jets
19. Lightning
20. Wild
21. Kings

I thought the NHL had changed things so that round to round is where you slotted in. The information I got, dated from last year, was that it's the 1st 2 rounds that get slotted between 17-24, division winners go to 25-28, conference runner ups 29-30, and Stanley Cup finalists 31-32. 

I was thinking the exact same thing though. Hopefully it's changed!

[WheelSnipeCelly]

3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I thought the NHL had changed things so that round to round is where you slotted in. The information I got, dated from last year, was that it's the 1st 2 rounds that get slotted between 17-24, division winners go to 25-28, conference runner ups 29-30, and Stanley Cup finalists 31-32. 

I was thinking the exact same thing though. Hopefully it's changed!

Good catch, I couldn't remember if it was the first round or first two rounds. I see that the rules say "Division" winner—my bad for getting hopes up! Soooo...the Kraken + Panthers will just have to win their divisions then!

[mnfaninnc]

25 minutes ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

"Division" winner—my bad for getting hopes up! Soooo...the Kraken + Panthers will just have to win their divisions then!

The division winners would be the Avs and Bruins. Bruins slot in at 28, Avs 25.  We need Panthers & Kraken in the Conference Finals!

Speaking of the Kraken, there was a lot of debate about going all out to win the division to hopefully get that matchup. The Kraken were built for playoff hockey and have those large defenders.  All that was missing from their season was adequate goaltending. And, moving forward, they're going to have more and more offense.  

Nice building by Ron Francis.

And, on the Panthers, they had what everyone would have to call a disappointing regular season, but they ended up with Matthew Tkachuk for the playoffs.  One thing that would go a long way for us is to have our own Matthew Tkachuk. Foligno is nice but he cannot change a game like Tkachuk can. I don't care which one we got, both of them are perfect players for what we need. Who thinks Suter is still standing if we had a Tkachuk on our team?

[Willy the poor boy]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:00 PM, Millante said:

 

For the love of god, it's the Wild's 24th season next season. At least the North Stars made it to the finals twice in 24 seasons.

IMO, the worst thing that happened to this franchise was the hot goaltending leading to the conference finals in 2003. Everyone thought (excluding me) that Risebrough and LeMaire would lead this team to championships and we're much better than they actually were. It led to the Wild holding on to them much much longer than they shoul;d have,

[WheelSnipeCelly]

7 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Speaking of the Kraken, there was a lot of debate about going all out to win the division to hopefully get that matchup. The Kraken were built for playoff hockey and have those large defenders.  All that was missing from their season was adequate goaltending. And, moving forward, they're going to have more and more offense.  

Nice building by Ron Francis.

100% agree! Looking back, Ron Francis did a solid job of learning what worked from Vegas and what didn't. He also didn't have the luxury of the rest of the NHL teams necessarily failing as badly this go around (like the Wild did with Haula + Tuch to protect Staal). Emphasizing size in the expansion draft for defense seems to be working for them.

Wanted to look up how they size up in comparison to the Wild (average defenseman is 6'0" and 187 lbs). On average the Kraken's defense are 3" taller and 25 lbs heavier which is pretty significant:

• Jamie Oleksiak: 6'7" / 255 lbs
• Jaycob Megna: 6'6" / 221 lbs
• Carson Soucy: 6'5" / 210 lbs (this one hurt for sure as it really exposed how small the Wild's blueline is)
• Adam Larsson: 6'3" / 208 lbs
• William Borgen: 6'3" / 200 lbs
• Justin Schultz: 6'2" / 193 lbs
• Cale Fleury: 6'1" / 205 lbs
• Vince Dunn: 6'0" / 203 lbs
• Kraken's Blueline Average: 6'3" / 212 lbs