Article: The Wild Goalie Vibes Are Immaculate This Year

[Mikki Tuohy]

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[Backwoodsbob]

Quote

That was, until the first round of playoffs started and an unexpected problem popped up. It made sense when Dean Evason and the coaching staff decided to put Fleury between the pipes for Game 1.

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. It didn't make sense to me and I'm sure that's the case with a lot of other opinions.

The way I saw it, Talbot was the goalie that put the Wild in  position for the post season. Talbot was on a hot streak at the time as well. He EARNED the start of game 1.

It will be difficult to change my mind on that point. Granted, MAF is a HOF goalie although, he still hadn't learned enough on how this team likes to play in front of him and he himself even stated that he will be better when the chemistry is built.

 We need to ride the hot goal tender! "Gus Bus" for game 1!!!

 Good article otherwise.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Backwoodsbob

[Jon]

3 hours ago, Backwoodsbob said:

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. It didn't make sense to me and I'm sure that's the case with a lot of other opinions.

The way I saw it, Talbot was the goalie that put the Wild in  position for the post season. Talbot was on a hot streak at the time as well. He EARNED the start of game 1.

It will be difficult to change my mind on that point. Granted, MAF is a HOF goalie although, he still hadn't learned enough on how this team likes to play in front of him and he himself even stated that he will be better when the chemistry is built.

 We need to ride the hot goal tender! "Gus Bus" for game 1!!!

 Good article otherwise.

You have to remember that Kaapo and Talbot at the the time of the trade last year, were struggling. There wasn’t full confidence in the goalie tandem and future contract considerations, hence the trade. 

Not trying to change your mind, just providing context and my view. I don’t think the brass quite trusted the goalies last year. This year is different.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, Jon said:

You have to remember that Kaapo and Talbot at the the time of the trade last year, were struggling. There wasn’t full confidence in the goalie tandem and future contract considerations, hence the trade. 

Not trying to change your mind, just providing context and my view. I don’t think the brass quite trusted the goalies last year. This year is different.

Jon, it looks like we are going to have some really spirited debates as things go on, and I like that.  I think you may be right about Kahkonen, and while he subbed in for Talbot when Talbot was hurt, both seasons, he was really good, but as soon as Talbot was healthy again, he deferred knowing he was the backup.  He didn't perform well in the spotlight either.  

I have no evidence to support this, but it is my opinion that Talbot also let people know this was his net, and he was pretty jealous over it.  I don't believe that he respected Kahkonen's game all that much and he simply felt he was better.  I also don't believe he was that great of a teammate with his tandem.  Now, that's not entirely fair to paint Talbot that way, but if you look at how talented he was having to backup King Hendrik all those years when he probably deserved more starts, you can see how an "it's my turn" mentality would be in Talbot's head, and his unwillingness to relinquish it.  He fought very hard to get a starting job, it wasn't going away easily.  

Here's where I have to completely agree with BB. By every measurement metric, Talbot outplayed Fleury coming down the stretch.  Reputation was the only thing Fleury had going for him.  Talbot did play exceptionally well coming down the stretch, beat Fleury in record, sv%, tougher starts, and seniority.  He also, the prior year, had put in a stellar performance in the playoffs.  Simply put, Talbot earned the game 1 start, and just the game 1 start. Starting someone else was a slap in the face, especially since the player was under the impression that the down the stretch play was the audition for that start. He won it, yet Fleury was chosen over him, and not just chosen, but was told it was an easy decision. No competitor wants to hear that, nor can accept a different fate than what he had earned.  

But, this tandem is different.  Fleury doesn't have that same mentality.  So, learning from last year, I would also do things differently if I was Evason.  

1. I'm splitting game 1 & 2 between both goalies and letting them know that before any performance starts.
2. I'm splitting games 3 & 4 the same way, anticipating that there will be no sweep.
3. This way, each goalie is familiar with that team in each building.  Games 5, 6, 7, if they happen, will go to the goalie who is the hottest at the time. 
4. If this is undeterminable, or the rotation seems to be working really well, I stick with it.  

 

[mnfaninnc]

Since this is the newest article, I'll post it here:

CHL Update: 

• Sherbrooke is up 2-0 on Drummondville. Spacek has put up 1g & 1a so far this series.
• Saginaw is down 0-2 to Sarnia. Saginaw has 1g in 2 games. Haight has 1a.
• Kamloops is up 2-0 on Portland. Bankier 1g 2a; Masters 1a
• Winnipeg is tied 1-1 with Moose Jaw. Lambos 1a, he is a +8 through 6 games.

[Jon]

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Jon, it looks like we are going to have some really spirited debates as things go on, and I like that.  I think you may be right about Kahkonen, and while he subbed in for Talbot when Talbot was hurt, both seasons, he was really good, but as soon as Talbot was healthy again, he deferred knowing he was the backup.  He didn't perform well in the spotlight either.  

I have no evidence to support this, but it is my opinion that Talbot also let people know this was his net, and he was pretty jealous over it.  I don't believe that he respected Kahkonen's game all that much and he simply felt he was better.  I also don't believe he was that great of a teammate with his tandem.  Now, that's not entirely fair to paint Talbot that way, but if you look at how talented he was having to backup King Hendrik all those years when he probably deserved more starts, you can see how an "it's my turn" mentality would be in Talbot's head, and his unwillingness to relinquish it.  He fought very hard to get a starting job, it wasn't going away easily.  

Here's where I have to completely agree with BB. By every measurement metric, Talbot outplayed Fleury coming down the stretch.  Reputation was the only thing Fleury had going for him.  Talbot did play exceptionally well coming down the stretch, beat Fleury in record, sv%, tougher starts, and seniority.  He also, the prior year, had put in a stellar performance in the playoffs.  Simply put, Talbot earned the game 1 start, and just the game 1 start. Starting someone else was a slap in the face, especially since the player was under the impression that the down the stretch play was the audition for that start. He won it, yet Fleury was chosen over him, and not just chosen, but was told it was an easy decision. No competitor wants to hear that, nor can accept a different fate than what he had earned.  

But, this tandem is different.  Fleury doesn't have that same mentality.  So, learning from last year, I would also do things differently if I was Evason.  

1. I'm splitting game 1 & 2 between both goalies and letting them know that before any performance starts.
2. I'm splitting games 3 & 4 the same way, anticipating that there will be no sweep.
3. This way, each goalie is familiar with that team in each building.  Games 5, 6, 7, if they happen, will go to the goalie who is the hottest at the time. 
4. If this is undeterminable, or the rotation seems to be working really well, I stick with it.  

 

I think that’s a strong assessment of Talbot’s perspective in career and with the Wild. I’m more of a context guy than I am a numbers guy; your perspective brings balance to mine and I hope we do continue to share our sides. I have enjoyed it as well; I very rarely take things personal and nearly always enjoy a challenge in dialogue. I think your opinion is valid and sound. 

I do not discredit you for agreeing with BB. It might be the best perspective, certainly is strong by evidence performing during the season for Talbot. I’m not saying it is what I would do, but I can understand why Flower was given the net in playoffs. Personally, I would rather see the hot hand as the goalie in net, or the cold hand NOT in net. From my perspective, Talbot was shaky over the stretch post-trade. For me, his play warranted a gamble on Fleury’s credibility as a less-than-a-year-removed Vezina winner and decorated champion. The rest is history. 

I do want to clarify, though, that I believe in pretty much all of what you said. I just like to hear and compare perspectives. It’s fun too, and frankly, it’s boring when no one engages. One can learn and have some fun, why not? Glad to have this, mnfaninnc!

[Millante]

No comment until we see who's in net today...

 

 But oooooooh am I gonna so comment when the good ol' boys club rolls out. /meonhold

Won't be joining the game thread either unfortunately. It's screening on AFN at 6 tonight which is 1 in the morning over there and I don't want to see the score.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

5 hours ago, Millante said:

No comment until we see who's in net today...

but it had better be Gustavsson!!!

I could care less what Fleury did before joining the Wild. He's not that goalie anymore, and with the Wild, he has a .908 save percentage with a 2.83 goals against average.

Gustavsson has a .931 save percentage and 2.10 goals against average!

[Imyourhuckleberry]

13 hours ago, Jon said:

Talbot was shaky over the stretch post-trade.

Each with 11 games prior to playoffs, Talbot had a .925 save percentage compared to Fleury's .910.

Talbot had given up more than 3 goals in regulation just once over the last 8 games.

Fleury had given up more than 3 goals in regulation 4 times in those last 8 games.

In the 7 games prior to the finale, Fleury had an .881 save percentage and 3.57 goals against average. He did improve those averages by facing Colorado in the finale, a meaningless game where the Avalanche sat every star and replaced them all with AHL scrubs. Fleury did well in that one, the only start in his last 5 that he saved 90%+.

Aside from that meaningless game against Colorado, Fleury only had 1 game in the 4 weeks prior to the playoff game where he'd allowed 2 goals or less.

In Talbot's last 7 games, those included in that same 4 week span, he had a .913 save percentage and 4 games allowing 2 goals or less.

If Talbot was "shaky", Fleury looked cooked.

[Jon]

14 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Each with 11 games prior to playoffs, Talbot had a .925 save percentage compared to Fleury's .910.

Talbot had given up more than 3 goals in regulation just once over the last 8 games.

Fleury had given up more than 3 goals in regulation 4 times in those last 8 games.

In the 7 games prior to the finale, Fleury had an .881 save percentage and 3.57 goals against average. He did improve those averages by facing Colorado in the finale, a meaningless game where the Avalanche sat every star and replaced them all with AHL scrubs. Fleury did well in that one, the only start in his last 5 that he saved 90%+.

Aside from that meaningless game against Colorado, Fleury only had 1 game in the 4 weeks prior to the playoff game where he'd allowed 2 goals or less.

In Talbot's last 7 games, those included in that same 4 week span, he had a .913 save percentage and 4 games allowing 2 goals or less.

If Talbot was "shaky", Fleury looked cooked.

Well this may be an overreaction, but I feel vindicated in my belief of Gus after tonight’s win. Last year’s tandem did not inspire confidence in me to be able to handle a game like tonight.

[CammieBuckeye29]

I'm fairly new to the Wild. I hopped onto the bandwagon because of Fleury. I'm a lifelong Penguins fan who has cheered for the teams Fleury has been on (except for the Blackhawks lol. I only cheered for them when he started. Thank you Billy G for getting him outta that organization). I think last year's decision to start Flower was based on matchups. Talbot struggled mightily against the Blues that entire season. Sometimes the coaches play matchups and win and sometimes they lose. I think maybe Evason might do it differently if he had the chance to go back in time, but who knows. This year, I think with the relationship that Gus and Flower have, it doesn't matter who starts as far as the egos and feelings side of it goes. Because there are no egos with these two. They are competitive without being toxic to each other and the team. And I say this as someone who has followed Talbot his whole career. I grew up in Huntsville, AL and I watched him play for the UAH Chargers. I was rooting for him to succeed. But yeah, his and his agent's comments and attitudes rubbed me the wrong way at the end there. 

I think this Wild team trusts both goalies and Flower and Gus trust each other. That's huge.