Wilderness Walk: Jared Spurgeon Injured Again

Bad injury riddled year for Spurge.  Was nice having him back.  I wish him the best in his recovery.

Sometimes you just have a run of injuries. We've been relatively healthy the past 3 years which has helped us make the playoffs. The thing is, being down $15m in cap space to start is like giving up 2 really good players just to start. Well, this season, it all caved in, so now it's teaching time. If our prospects were healthy, this would be their opportunity to get some valuable experience and then some really good teaching on how to play (cutting out mistakes). 

It has afforded Faber a real chance to shine, and Rossi too, though I think Faber has taken more advantage of it. Daemon Hunt simply needs to play. I'd also be in favor of a Lambos debut, just to give him a taste of the speed and strength necessary to compete in this league. 

It's looking more and more like we will be having a clearance sale in February. All games are important, maybe just not in the standings. I certainly hope that Shooter can change outlooks from now to future the latter part of the season, and he doesn't have to fall on his sword to apologize to OCL. It might also be nice to get our Russians back after their season is over and see how they look on our ice? For instance, Firstov is still under contract here. It'd be nice to see what Yurov and Dino could do, and where they are in the maturation process. Plus, having them under contract (especially with Yurov) could have us "loan" the player to the K.

51 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

It's looking more and more like we will be having a clearance sale in February. All games are important, maybe just not in the standings. I certainly hope that Shooter can change outlooks from now to future the latter part of the season, and he doesn't have to fall on his sword to apologize to OCL. 

Who are you looking to sell at the TDL?  Only guys w/o protection (minus AHL/Callups) are Kaprizov, Boldy, Ek, Rossi, Faber, Duhaime, Dewar and Gus. 

Maybe you can move Duhaime/Dewar, but what's the return? A 3rd/4th round pick if you're lucky?  An aging player who's good for the room?

Maybe you convince the Fleury/Maroon/Bogosian to waive to get a shot at a last playoff run, but again, at what return?  

Realistically, I think Bogosian is most likely to get moved, but the return ain't going to be much better than the 7th we spent to get him here.

Also, I don't see Bad-Temper-Billy being the type to fall on his sword and apologize.  Not the type of behavior I'd expect from a guy who slashes his teammate in the head and then tries to choke him out.

26 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Who are you looking to sell at the TDL?

I'd be looking at Duhaime, possibly Dewar (yet I don't see a viable replacement option for him), Maroon, Goligoski, Merrill, possibly Fleury and I'd forgotten about Bogosian. The returns would not be the main theme, the opportunities it creates will be the main benefit. Some of these guys have designations and may decline, and that's their business. But, the main obstacle in the NMC is that the player can essentially decide where he wants to go.

I'm not really worried about compensation, and, perhaps, we get better picks than you suggested above by moving down a couple of drafts. I truly believe that our rebuild is over or about over, now we wait for the prospects to come of age. 

I'd like a real good look at Sammy Walker and Adam Beckman. I'd also want The Wall to come up full time (share the load) and see Hunt and Lambos on the big stage. I do not believe Charlie Stramel will be ready to leave college hockey this year, I think he'll need 1 more year. 

As for the Gaudreau, Foligno, Hartman, Zuccarello signings, I don't think we needed to do all. Foligno was the only guy in the organization that could not be replicated. All the rest we could have dealt with this summer, and it would have been a good decision regardless of hindsight. I really take issue with the Zuccarello one, it should have been a max of 1 year. Granted he was probably having the best year out of any of them, but availability is an ability.

Also, on the McBain issue above. McBain and Guerin sat down for dinner when Guerin went to visit. I believe they had a heart to heart discussion of the plan of development for McBain. 

I believe Guerin wanted to start McBain in the A, and was prepared to give him an ELC when the season was over. I think McBain felt that college hockey had prepared him enough for the N. And, if he had to start in the A, he wasn't signing but would simply wait 3 months and pick his destination. 

I think Guerin then told him he'd try to find him a fit somewhere where he could start in the N, but also probably told him it wouldn't be a very good team. McBain bet on himself, and I'd say he won. But, Guerin didn't jettison him out of spite, he tried to find him a place where he could grow. AZ had the opening. Fairly, we got a 2nd for him. 

I think Guerin did the same thing for Addison. He put him in a place where the player could get minutes and grow. He knew it just wasn't going to work here and I believe he was right. Bogosian has been a much better fit for this team. Say what you will about Billy's temper, he does try to find fits for players that don't fit our roster.

I'm pretty sure we all would be calling for McBain's head if he were here.  He isn't as good as Dewar.

As far as TDL... value is negligible even if we became sellers.  Who wants a NoJo?  

4 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Say what you will about Billy's temper, he does try to find fits for players that don't fit our roster.

T'Bot may think a little differently. And that's what I'm saying about his temper.

18 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

T'Bot may think a little differently. And that's what I'm saying about his temper.

I don't know exactly what goes on in the locker room, but I don't think Talbot was as good of a teammate as people assume. I think he thought he was better than Kahkonen, and every time he was healthy, I think he let Kahkonen know it. If you look at the performance of Kahkonen while Talbot is hurt vs. healthy, there is a pretty good contrast. Talbot came from the school that the best goalie plays. He didn't have much room for helping Kahkonen out. If you contrast this with Fleury, Fleury has always paid it forward and been a good teammate with his underlings. 

Now Ottawa needed a #1. They are an up and coming team. Talbot could have helped them, but was injured the 1st 6 weeks. If he is healthy during that span, Ottawa might have been playing for a playoff spot late in March. But, Billy's temper wasn't against Talbot, Billy's temper was against Talbot's agent whom he believed needed to be taught a lesson. Talbot was expendable if we got a younger 'tender. Goose2 was a major gamble, but paid off. Now we have a possible tandem for years to come!

Talbot has come out and said he never wanted to leave here. I believe him. I think he had an agent who overstepped his bounds and misrepresented his client, and then went on international tv and bragged about it. At least, that's how I saw it.

On 1/4/2024 at 11:16 AM, MrCheatachu said:

Maybe you can move Duhaime/Dewar, but what's the return? A 3rd/4th round pick if you're lucky?  An aging player who's good for the room?

We’ve beat this horse to death but here’s some more:  Benito needs to be accountable (accept the push back) for resigning Foligno, Fred, and Hartman sooner than he has to.  Those three would likely have a market value at this years trade deadline.  Not to mention how much more motivated they’d be playing during this contract year.   Major unforced error by Benito

23 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'd like a real good look at Sammy Walker and Adam Beckman.

Agreed if for no other reason than it allowed us to turn the page

50 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Agreed if for no other reason than it allowed us to turn the page

Crazy Legs Walker did not impress last night.  Good energy but he looks like he still belongs in a Gopher jersey

11 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Crazy Legs Walker did not impress last night.  Good energy but he looks like he still belongs in a Gopher jersey

Walker was sent back to IA. today and Raskin was called up.

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I don't know exactly what goes on in the locker room, but I don't think Talbot was as good of a teammate as people assume. I think he thought he was better than Kahkonen, and every time he was healthy, I think he let Kahkonen know it. If you look at the performance of Kahkonen while Talbot is hurt vs. healthy, there is a pretty good contrast. Talbot came from the school that the best goalie plays. He didn't have much room for helping Kahkonen out. If you contrast this with Fleury, Fleury has always paid it forward and been a good teammate with his underlings. 

Now Ottawa needed a #1. They are an up and coming team. Talbot could have helped them, but was injured the 1st 6 weeks. If he is healthy during that span, Ottawa might have been playing for a playoff spot late in March. But, Billy's temper wasn't against Talbot, Billy's temper was against Talbot's agent whom he believed needed to be taught a lesson. Talbot was expendable if we got a younger 'tender. Goose2 was a major gamble, but paid off. Now we have a possible tandem for years to come!

Talbot has come out and said he never wanted to leave here. I believe him. I think he had an agent who overstepped his bounds and misrepresented his client, and then went on international tv and bragged about it. At least, that's how I saw it.

But the team was let down when he wasn't the starter in the Blues series. I certainly am not buying into your speculation he was  bad teammate. I am pretty sure I had heard nothing but the opposite of that.

I'm not sure where your getting any of what your saying in that 1'st paragraph.

"But, Billy's temper wasn't against Talbot, Billy's temper was against Talbot's agent whom he believed needed to be taught a lesson."

Isn't this exactly what were talking about? You say BG won't let his temper get in the way of helping players out and putting them in the best situation. The T bot situation flies right in the face of that. If your excuse for BG is it was a good situation for Tbot, that wasn't why BG traded him to Ott. He traded him because it was the first fair offer that came along. He said so. He wasn't weighing offers, he wanted him off the team period. If it was because of Talbot's agent and not Talbot himself it makes things even worse.

BG has shown often where his temper gets the better of him. Deny it all you want. There have been plenty of examples, and this is why I believe he will never be successful as a GM. At 60, or whatever he is, he ain't gonna be able change that part of his personality.

As far as Ott. being an up and coming team, well I know I believed that, but very few else here on Wilderness did. I was actually disappointed at how many here were happy that, as they saw it, Tbot got screwed by BG sending him there. Rewrite history all you want but, I believe you were on team latter.

20 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

"But, Billy's temper wasn't against Talbot, Billy's temper was against Talbot's agent whom he believed needed to be taught a lesson."

I really wish that we could have seen a Fleury-Kahkonen battery so that you could see the contrast in what I was saying. 

Your take isn't bad, and I must have missed the Guerin admission that it was the 1st fair offer that came along. That being said, that means there must have been other offers too. 

One thing Guerin holds sacred is the "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" theory. Applied to hockey it means what Guerin and agents say to each other stays in the cone of silence. Guerin did not like a public argument with Talbot's agent on the draft floor, and he despised Talbot's agent spouting off to international tv afterwards. The same thing happened when he was acquiring Fleury and Davidson mentioned to the press that Guerin was talking trade for Fleury. 

Did other GMs hear that interview and start calling/texting Guerin with offers for Talbot? I sincerely thought that Ottawa was a good destination for Talbot too. While it's not normally a destination place for players, it was a young team that needed a true #1 goalie. That young team had most of the pieces in place. Then, they lost Norris for most of the season, and Talbot for the 1st 6 weeks. Simply put, they fell too far back from the beginning. Buffalo and NJ were 2 other up and comers, and NJ took the reins and never looked back.

But, we're talking about Billy's temper. I believe he was seething under his skin with Talbot's agent. He said he thought about it over night and concluded Talbot wouldn't be happy with the Wild. Did Talbot's agent misrepresent Talbot? I believe he did, and that his interview on tv was more of a self promotion to try and get new clients. Talbot said he never wanted to leave, and I'll take him at his word on that. Lucky for us, we're in a better place longterm now.

I wonder what the other offers were? I wonder why Guerin would say that this was his first fair offer? I say that because Goose2 was not coming off a particularly strong year. Was it that Guerin knew the player better? And, if Guerin were jettisoning Talbot to get him off the roster, why would he wait for the first "fair" offer? If a GM is letting his temper get the best of him, first or second offer would be what I'd think he'd do. But, no, he held out for the "fair" offer. That doesn't sound like a temper tantrum. That sounds like a GM who made up his mind that Talbot had to go, and was trying to get fair compensation for him. I will have to admit that Talbot's wellbeing, or fit, didn't have as big a role in this as it did in most deals.

Good points Willy!