Wild Painfully Get Shutout By Dallas

Time to sign a couple Ogie Oglethorpes that are playing in the Quebec penal league  to goon it up during this tanker of a season.

Sorry for you season ticket folks.

Prepare yourself for a sweep.  Dallas fully understands the weaknesses on our roster and has zero fear against us.  They fully believe they should win even when we play our best and they play their worst.... and they are not wrong.  The Jets and Stars have showed us the bar... and we are not even close.

We have entered a rebuild period.  We must start judging our roster individually and not as a whole.  It starts with the TDL.  Which players are not viable and  unlikely to ever be and are willing to be traded.  Then getting in players that are either where they need to be or show an improving game.

Players we need to keep:  Ek, Kirill, Boldy, Faber, Brodin, Rossi and Middleton.  That's it.  Everyone else is either too old to be any good after the rebuild, isn't good enough now or hasn't shown enough capacity to improve to guarantee a roster spot.

BG has work to do.

19 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

We have entered a rebuild period.  We must start judging our roster individually and not as a whole.  It starts with the TDL.  Which players are not viable and  unlikely to ever be and are willing to be traded.  Then getting in players that are either where they need to be or show an improving game.

Players we need to keep:  Ek, Kirill, Boldy, Faber, Brodin, Rossi and Middleton.  That's it.  Everyone else is either too old to be any good after the rebuild, isn't good enough now or hasn't shown enough capacity to improve to guarantee a roster spot.

BG has work to do.

No protection: Boldy, Ek, Duhaime, Rossi, Dewar, Middleton, Merrill, Faber

Modified: Bogosian (21 team list), Maroon (16 team list), Gaudreau (15 team list), Zuccarello (10 team list)

No Movement: Foligno, Hartman, Goligoski, Fleury

No Trade: Johansson

Basically, you have the freedom to send MoJo to the AHL, but you can't trade him. You're probably doing the same with Merrill as I don't see an NHL team offering much for him.  Dewey's probably have reasonable (but likely disappointing) return.  Selfishly, I'd be disappointed to see them moved because over this recent stretch of games, looks like the only guys on the team interested in playing hockey.

You have limited your ability to move Freddy and Zuccy, but you have over 1/2 the NHL you can move those guys to.  Freddy might be a harder move as his contract is so long, but you got to think the Lizard isn't going to be moved due to his chemistry with Kaprizov, and his brand contract.

It's my feel that both Bogo and Maroon would be moveable to a contender looking for that depth vet to make their cup run.  Both of their play this season has been surprisingly good, and I think both guys got enough in their tank to be an important depth piece on a playoff team.  My gut tells me their lists shouldnt be too much of an issue, and if a serious contender comes with a 3rd rounder for either of those guys Billy would be an idiot not to take that.

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

Prepare yourself for a sweep.  Dallas fully understands the weaknesses on our roster and has zero fear against us.  They fully believe they should win even when we play our best and they play their worst.... and they are not wrong.  The Jets and Stars have showed us the bar... and we are not even close.

We have entered a rebuild period.  We must start judging our roster individually and not as a whole.  It starts with the TDL.  Which players are not viable and  unlikely to ever be and are willing to be traded.  Then getting in players that are either where they need to be or show an improving game.

Players we need to keep:  Ek, Kirill, Boldy, Faber, Brodin, Rossi and Middleton.  That's it.  Everyone else is either too old to be any good after the rebuild, isn't good enough now or hasn't shown enough capacity to improve to guarantee a roster spot.

BG has work to do.

100% agree. Unfortunately, GMBG doubled down and locked down most of everyone not on your list of Ek, Kirill, Boldy, Brodin, and Rossi.

The Wild currently have 9x NMC / M-NTC contracts with: Gaudreau (15-team no trade list), Johansson (NMC), Maroon (15-team no trade list), Brodin (NMC), Fleury (NMC), Goligoski (NMC), Spurgeon (NMC), Zuccarello (10-team no trade list), and Bogosian (21-team no trade list).

Next season they add 3x more NMC contracts with: Foligno, Hartman, and Zuccarello, making most of the roster either difficult or impossible to move. 

That essentially leaves only 4 players off the two "untouchable" lists: Duhaime, Dewar, Merrill, and Gustavsson. Most likely resulting in an uneventful Trade Deadline, but who knows? Maybe some players are willing to waive their NMC (unfortunately most have term, except for Goligoski and Fleury), or a deal gets done with a team that's off of a players M-NTC (most likely either Maroon or Bogosian, since again everyone else has term).

Long story short. BG needs to stop handing out NMC and M-NTC like candy.

1 hour ago, FredJohnson said:

Time to sign a couple Ogie Oglethorpes that are playing in the Quebec penal league  to goon it up during this tanker of a season.

Sorry for you season ticket folks.

 

Foligno already fills this role, poorly.  Raska has a chance to have an nhl career if he understands the role.  

I’d vote to move both Dewey’s at tdl.   Duhaime is not an effective bottom 6’r.  Plays with heart but he makes fewer hockey plays than Foligno and he doesn’t super heavy enough to intimidate physically. I had hope for Dewar but that hope is fading, so trade him while there’s still value in his youth.  The can’t miss prospects can arrive soon enough

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

Prepare yourself for a sweep.  Dallas fully understands the weaknesses on our roster and has zero fear against us.  They fully believe they should win even when we play our best and they play their worst.... and they are not wrong.  The Jets and Stars have showed us the bar... and we are not even close.

We have entered a rebuild period.  We must start judging our roster individually and not as a whole.  It starts with the TDL.  Which players are not viable and  unlikely to ever be and are willing to be traded.  Then getting in players that are either where they need to be or show an improving game.

Players we need to keep:  Ek, Kirill, Boldy, Faber, Brodin, Rossi and Middleton.  That's it.  Everyone else is either too old to be any good after the rebuild, isn't good enough now or hasn't shown enough capacity to improve to guarantee a roster spot.

BG has work to do.

I fully agree. Unfortunately, it is up to the players with all the NMC/NTC's we signed. If the players want to stay we are going to look pedestrian well into next year. This would be a great time to jettison some dead weight; Merrill, Gaudreau(M-NTC) Johansson(NTC), Duhaime, Foligno(NMC), Bogosian(M-NTC), Maroon(M-NTC) and possibly even Hartman(NMC) and Zucc(NMC). Hartman, Zucc, Gaudreau and Dewar I think we should keep, especially if we want to be competitive into next year. It really comes down to what the players want after BG used the NMC/NTC to the fullest the past couple years and puts us in a terrible situation for an on the fly rebuild.

31 minutes ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

Next season they add 3x more NMC contracts with: Foligno, Hartman, and Zuccarello, making most of the roster either difficult or impossible to move. 

Per capfriendly

Hartman and Foligno were able to negotiate a NMC to be added to the 23-24 season as part of their extensions, so their protection is in place for the current season, even though their new contracts start next season.

Zuccarello has a modified 10 team no-trade list this season, with a no movement clause for the current season, and his full NMC kick in next season.

2 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

BG has work to do.

Remember the comment Shooter made in the Fiala trade? Dumba's a helluva hockey player, I'm not making 3 or 4 trades just because Fiala had a hot half a season. In other words, to keep Fiala, it would have required a huge effort of trading other smaller pieces. 

Now, I'm not convinced that Fiala even wanted to be here longterm. But, the comment from Shooter seems to indicate that he doesn't necessarily want to spend a lot of time on messing around with a roster. He'd rather take the easy way out. Perhaps, I've misunderstood his position?

In this environment, with the buyouts, it was always going to require a huge effort to manipulate the roster and make sure we had value players playing. Yet, BG took the easy road this summer and just resigned a bunch of his guys already to lighten the load for this summer. With the way this season has unfolded, none of these guys should be safe even if they signed designations. A shake up is probably needed, and a sure fire signal should be sent to Yurov's agent that Yurov has a good chance of making this team next season. 

I know these players got designations, but there is kind of an unwritten rule about that: If it's not working out here, you'll be moved, you just get a good say in where you're going. Goligoski bucked that trend last season by deciding to stay. He also should have retired because his time was up. I was glad they scratched him last night, since he wouldn't have been able to keep up.

Dallas and Winnipeg proved the Wild are going to get hung out to dry.  I do think some of the players will leave or be traded, opening the door for Khusnitdinov and Ohgren next year.  Yurov might wait out Johansson, or might not yet, but I think Guerin knew there was going to be a potential for a brick wall season somewhere.  Injuries and old defensively weak players (Merrill and Goligoski) have left a lot of the good this team has (Faber, Foligno, Ek) in the lurch, and the offense is still spotty.  I think Zuccarello proved until his injury that getting him on a reduced cap hit is fine.  Hartman can still do streaky things when necessary, and Foligno is better defensively than I think he gets credit for.  The Gaudreau contract being $2m isn't bad, but the 5 years is starting to look ghastly.

Injuries suck, but the players weren't up to snuff against Dallas with Evason nor Hynes.  There's only so much that can be done.  Deweys are gone, Bogo is gone, Goligoski for sure is gone.  Fleury might still get some value.  He's still got some crazy mobility for his age.  He can steal a game...sometimes.

While I don't think there's as much immovable pieces as one would think, there's one thing that's for sure: this team either needs another hot hand to pair with Rossi up front, or another shutdown defender to pair with Faber.  Maybe both come from the AHL...NEXT year, or the draft.  This year looks like upside down toast.

It is also important to note that all contracts were signed with the understanding that Evason was the coach. The guys may not like their new roles under Hynes, or may not like him as a coach. Either way, if teams come inquiring to someone's availability, Shooter needs to at least present the situation to the player, assuming, the compensation is agreeable. 

Things change, as do attitudes. Perhaps some are more willing to move on. A couple of bag skates because of lack of effort might go a long way in changing some minds. 

As I say this, last night we started on time and looked good in the 1st period. To have to walk away from that period down 1-0 was not a good feeling. Instead of pressing harder, they faded, managing about 11 shots in 2 periods. Boldy had a lousy game again, and I think many of you are right, he isn't healthy and is gutting it out. For now, I'll give him a pass. But, I'm expecting some heavy strength gain and edge work this offseason!

10 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

this team either needs another hot hand to pair with Rossi up front, or another shutdown defender to pair with Faber.  Maybe both come from the AHL...NEXT year, or the draft. 

I'm not expecting much offense from Ohgren, but I think Dino provides quite a bit, and in a package we do not currently have. Yurov would also provide that offensive spark. I'm hoping Lambos can make the jump, but it appears as if Spacek, Masters, O'Rourke and Johansson all need more time. I wonder if Johansson can make more money back in Sweden? I guess a real question might be, can Firstov make this team if he comes back? If not for us, could he be a real nice trade chip to pick up another good looking prospect?

I haven't heard anything from outside sources, but my gut says The Wall makes his debut Wednesday. What do you guys think?

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

What do you guys think?

I'd bet money on "the wall" starting on Wednesday

8 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Yurov would also provide that offensive spark. I'm hoping Lambos can make the jump, but it appears as if Spacek, Masters, O'Rourke and Johansson all need more time.

What's the ETA on Petro?  

Also, I forgot to mention this earlier.  The "should they have resigned them early or not" will always be a matter of what have you done for me lately.

Zuccarello: Slam dunk (He was on pace for 95 points until the injury, age be damned, and getting a discount)

Hartman: Streaky, but who knows what Rossi is gonna be.  Still a versatile player and the youngest of the bunch they resigned.

Foligno: Again, he's up there with Faber and Ek in defensive goals against (like top 30 in the league in +/-, regardless of what linemates he has.  I think he gets shit on a bit too much for what he's doing.  Is 4x4 too much for a guy like that?  Maybe, but I dunno.

Gaudreau: Again, it's the term, less so the money.  He was Evason's guy, and still serviceable, though to a less extent than Hartman.

My point is I think we should all realize that this season is a lost cause.  The players will play, and won't tank intentionally.  It sucks, but injuries and other better teams are just throwing the Wild under the bus.  Guerin either had an order from on high, or a sneaking suspicion that maybe he was too afraid of failure.  There was every chance Rossi and Faber didn't end up being Calder favorite caliber players like they were.  Maybe he thought people like Addison, Duhaime, or Dewar would step up, or some of the callups (Walker, Khaira) would impress.  Maybe Leipold wouldn't let him just bleed out all the players all at once and see what happened with EVERY young guy on the roster.  Who knows.  All I know is he signed them early, rather than waiting, and THAT should be the focus.  

He jumped the gun, probably because he was afraid of complete failure.  Maybe letting every young player play would have not solved anything.  He chose a 'drip feed' method instead of the floodgate.  The only thing we can really criticize the team for is not being allowed to find out first.

I'll panic a hell of a lot more if new players next year don't show half of what they are estimated to.  I'm willing to ride out this season for what it is: up shit creek, but won't cry over it.

Just now, Pewterschmidt said:

What's the ETA on Petro?  

Tiger is in his final season in the O. Unless, he plays there overaged next year (something I would frown upon) he should be in Iowa after their season is over. 

I'm not sure how the playoff structure works, but they are 6th in their division with a pretty large gap between them and 5th. The 7th place team is 1 point behind them with a game in hand. 

If my assumption is that top 4 in the division make it, then it's probably a safe bet Tiger would sign a PTO for Iowa and head there after the regular season, with the ELC in hand and ready to go next season in Iowa. I don't think he's ready to make the jump to the N.

5 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

He jumped the gun, probably because he was afraid of complete failure.  Maybe letting every young player play would have not solved anything.  The only thing we can really criticize the team for is not being allowed to find out first.

There is one other possibility on this. The timeline. Perhaps what Shooter thought was that players would not be ready in time? It's always tricky when counting on prospects because sometimes they need extra time to develop. Couple that with the lost time of development from Covid (yes, that still comes into play), and there are a lot of unknowns out there. 

Was 3 years too much for Hartsy? Maybe. 4 years for Foligno? 4 years is about the timeframe needed for Stramel and Kumpulainen. The Zuccarello one, to me, should have been 1 year due to his age and due to what's coming. Then, you figure it out the following year. I wonder if Shooter had weighted until the end of the season this year, if he would have done 2 years after seeing how badly Goligoski fell apart after his 2 years? Of course, MAF was serviceable with his contract. 

8 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

There is one other possibility on this. The timeline. Perhaps what Shooter thought was that players would not be ready in time? It's always tricky when counting on prospects because sometimes they need extra time to develop. Couple that with the lost time of development from Covid (yes, that still comes into play), and there are a lot of unknowns out there. 

Was 3 years too much for Hartsy? Maybe. 4 years for Foligno? 4 years is about the timeframe needed for Stramel and Kumpulainen. The Zuccarello one, to me, should have been 1 year due to his age and due to what's coming. Then, you figure it out the following year. I wonder if Shooter had weighted until the end of the season this year, if he would have done 2 years after seeing how badly Goligoski fell apart after his 2 years? Of course, MAF was serviceable with his contract. 

The other thing is the frustration over taking Stramel over this player, that player, etc.  Thing is, you still got amazing value (points wise) with Heidt and Kumpulainen with later picks, whether Stramel ends up as "just another Ek."  I mean...what the absolute fuck.  If his ceiling, is "just another Ek," then god help whatever team plays us, cause that means two of them, much less what Kumpulainen and Heidt end up doing.  Guerin and Brackett played for need and at that point in the draft, couldn't get anyone to bite for trades.  So, no, they didn't get Moore, etc.  If Stramel just becomes, "GREEF line 3rd line terrorizer Ek," not "60-point, PP-scorer Selke on a bargin" Ek, that's still a win.

There was no way of really knowing, "Hey, Kaprizov is hurt really badly, what do we do now."  Sure, the wingers have hurt badly since Fiala left.  But this team is always lacked size and center depth.  I don't blame them one bit going for 6'3 guys first thing, and then lucking out on Heidt.  If Heidt ends up being a crazy point getter, won't the other 31 teams look stupid.

The fact the Wild have that many potential people to take spots (and Guerin has yet to sell off 1sts and 2nds like Fletcher did) has me yet to say the Wild are just plain dead in the water.  One bad year (or two given the buyouts) is not the end of the world for me.

After this far in the season, I'm fine with the Zuccarello and Foligno resignings.  Each of the terms are probably one year too long, but I can live with it.  The one I am having trouble with is Hartman.  I like some of what he brings, and when he is putting forth the effort and staying a bit more disciplined, I'm fine with it.  But I really don't like players who seem to decide to stop putting forth effort in games.  Streaky is putting nice when the south end of that is a liability.  Zuccarello and Foligno at least seem like they are trying, even though at times they start to be a bit unnoticeable or try to do too much.  Hartman just seems like he doesn't care sometimes.

I also think their is room on the team for players who deserve to be here.  With the buyouts, we can't afford to carry much for scratched players when the team is healthy.  But with a few contracts coming off the books next season, we could have the room to have someone like Gaudreau, Johansson, or Merrill to be scratched if prospects are better than them.  Just because you have a contract or a movement clause doesn't mean you won't be a regular scratch.  I like Freddy, but he just screams reserve player.  I'd rather he was coming off the bench when needed rather than being a regular player.

And because we don't have the cap space or the roster depth, people like Hartman don't have the threat of getting benched.  Last year, when he would start to fall off, Evason would scratch him for a couple games to rein him in.  We don't have that luxury this year so the leash on the junkyard dog is a bit long and he's not where we need him to be.

57 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

The other thing is the frustration over taking Stramel over this player, that player, etc.  Thing is, you still got amazing value (points wise) with Heidt and Kumpulainen with later picks, whether Stramel ends up as "just another Ek."  I mean...what the absolute fuck.  If his ceiling, is "just another Ek," then god help whatever team plays us, cause that means two of them, much less what Kumpulainen and Heidt end up doing.  Guerin and Brackett played for need and at that point in the draft, couldn't get anyone to bite for trades.  So, no, they didn't get Moore, etc.  If Stramel just becomes, "GREEF line 3rd line terrorizer Ek," not "60-point, PP-scorer Selke on a bargin" Ek, that's still a win.

The frustration for me with Stramel is that he currently skating 4th line on wing...not even as a center, which is why he was supposedly drafted.  You took Stramel over Perrault because Stramel was a 'center'

Also, where's this Ek comparison coming from?  Dude has 0 hits so far this season.

Kicking the can down the road for years and not ripping the bandaid off on the rebuild has led us to today.

I still contend Guerin needs to be fired for the inconceivably stupid offseason he just put together.  Jerking Rossi around,  giving him peanuts playing time on the fourth line then throwing him under the bus and back to the AHL.  Taking Charlie freaking Stramel with Perrault, Ritchie, Musty, etc. staring him in the face.  Then, the weird scandals behind the scenes started.

This franchise is a mess.  Get Guerin out of here.  He sucks.

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

The other thing is the frustration over taking Stramel over this player, that player, etc.  Thing is, you still got amazing value (points wise) with Heidt and Kumpulainen with later picks, whether Stramel ends up as "just another Ek."  I mean...what the absolute fuck.  If his ceiling, is "just another Ek," then god help whatever team plays us, cause that means two of them, much less what Kumpulainen and Heidt end up doing.  Guerin and Brackett played for need and at that point in the draft, couldn't get anyone to bite for trades.  So, no, they didn't get Moore, etc.  If Stramel just becomes, "GREEF line 3rd line terrorizer Ek," not "60-point, PP-scorer Selke on a bargin" Ek, that's still a win.

There was no way of really knowing, "Hey, Kaprizov is hurt really badly, what do we do now."  Sure, the wingers have hurt badly since Fiala left.  But this team is always lacked size and center depth.  I don't blame them one bit going for 6'3 guys first thing, and then lucking out on Heidt.  If Heidt ends up being a crazy point getter, won't the other 31 teams look stupid.

The fact the Wild have that many potential people to take spots (and Guerin has yet to sell off 1sts and 2nds like Fletcher did) has me yet to say the Wild are just plain dead in the water.  One bad year (or two given the buyouts) is not the end of the world for me.

Getting good value elsewhere in the draft doesn’t make up for a stupid first round pick.  Frankly, tired of that nonsensical rationalization that gets thrown out every time somebody talks about Stramel.

I don’t care who they took after Stramel.  That doesn’t change the Stramel pick.  Imagine how great the draft looks if they had taken Perreault.

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I haven't heard anything from outside sources, but my gut says The Wall makes his debut Wednesday. What do you guys think?

Foolish not to.  As far as I am concerned this team is in full rebuild mode.  Need to see how he reacts to a growing team.

I would think that some of the players with a No Move or No Trade would be more willing to jump ship if they know we are moving into a full rebuild and that we won't be competitive until 25-26.