Wild Call Out Connor McDavid For Dirty Play

Just for the record, I was also an Ironhead Earnhardt fan, and respected any basketball player who made a team pay with his allotment of fouls (no little reach ins, the guy hit the floor and he argues for a charge).

I watched Joaquin Andujar on the mound throw a retaliatory pitch just over an Astro player's head. The Astro player made the mistake of charging the mound, Andujar calmly laid his mitt on the ground with his hat on top and dropped him. 

I became a Seeler fan when he saw his teammate get blasted on the boards from behind, didn't wait for a referee's call, defended his teammate and dropped him with one punch.

You have to have guys like this on a championship squad. Guys who just won't take and crap. Guys who referees know if you don't call it immediately, you will regret swallowing your whistle. Suddenly these same referees who have 3 blind mice played for them by the organ guy have 20/20 vision. And don't think that player doesn't warn the officials before going crazy, sometimes they absolutely do.

13 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Just for the record, I was also an Ironhead Earnhardt fan, and respected any basketball player who made a team pay with his allotment of fouls (no little reach ins, the guy hit the floor and he argues for a charge).

I watched Joaquin Andujar on the mound throw a retaliatory pitch just over an Astro player's head. The Astro player made the mistake of charging the mound, Andujar calmly laid his mitt on the ground with his hat on top and dropped him. 

I became a Seeler fan when he saw his teammate get blasted on the boards from behind, didn't wait for a referee's call, defended his teammate and dropped him with one punch.

You have to have guys like this on a championship squad. Guys who just won't take and crap. Guys who referees know if you don't call it immediately, you will regret swallowing your whistle. Suddenly these same referees who have 3 blind mice played for them by the organ guy have 20/20 vision. And don't think that player doesn't warn the officials before going crazy, sometimes they absolutely do.

haha nice

well if wild feel like they need to get a vet, i'm sure billy can work his connection and get geno here to keep order

I did like Seeler. Prosser replacement quality was immense and toughness, not lacking. GMBG let him and Bjugstad go and I preferred those players over NoJos or Dermotts all day long. At that time MN was plugging holes with lesser guys like Pateryn, Hunt, Bartowski, Addison, Belpedio, etc. on defense. 

In place of Bjugstad, MN used Dewar, Petan, Justin, Beckman, Reaves, and Fred, who aren't all bad but MN is small and soft still. Just the way it is. We need a guy who will take a suspension so teams know that's on the table. 

That's why I've wanted Frederic or Trenin type guys. It's just weird too cause once here, MN pulls back on the reigns shuts down the killer instincts. At least with Reaves, they didn't use him much in his role cause he didn't have any other good NHL qualities. 

If you asked me MN still has a roster construction problem. Not a big huge one, but one that shows whenever MN has an opportunity to be tougher or meaner or more resilient to physically challenging hockey. Or the kind of hockey that frustrates stars like McDavid, Kucherov, even Kaprizov who can be bullied or bumped off their game. Ask yourself when MN has ever done that??? When we had Matt Cooke. Let that sink in. We aren't gonna go win a Cup with a bunch of little Euros and flopper-chokers. 

So the common theme seems to be "wild not tough, fight more, take cheap shots "eye for an eye", hit everything that moves". They are 5th in the league in fights with 14. 1 through 6 are Bruins, Preds, flames, Devils, Wild, Jackets. The most points among them? Wild at 58, Devils have 57, the rest, well look at the standings. Also hits per game seem to be an inverse of standings. More hits when lower in standings with a few outliers such as the panthers at 1 and leafs at 6. For hits wild are at 19, which is more than those soft nobody teams like the Jets, Knights, Avs, Stars, Oilers, Caps, and Canes.....

Missing top 3 defenseman, Kap, and Lauko with NO CAP SPACE LEFT, you now want to have players take runs, cheap shots "eye for eye" that has been mentioned and possibly face suspensions? Great now with injuries, no cap space and suspensions you have a team with a short bench that will have an even harder time trying to get through this stretch of injuries let alone winning games, yeah that will show em. 

Its not the 70s or 80s anymore, that's 40 to 50 years ago. The idea of moose running down and punishing McDavid or Drai is impossible, they are considered 2 of the best, McD being one of if not the fastest player in the league. When has ANYONE had a clean shot on them? If they have, its super rare, for a reason.  You can't force someone to fight either, takes two to tango, so what if Moose tries to drop em with McD after the hit and he doesn't drop em? That's a penalty, probably not the best position to be in.  I am sure many won't agree here but reality is things happen, injuries happen, cheap shots happen, to all teams. Since the Jets and Avs are so soft, don't fight, don't hit, why aren't they getting cheap shotted all the time? 

23 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

So the common theme seems to be "wild not tough, fight more, take cheap shots "eye for an eye", hit everything that moves". They are 5th in the league in fights with 14. 1 through 6 are Bruins, Preds, flames, Devils, Wild, Jackets. The most points among them? Wild at 58, Devils have 57, the rest, well look at the standings. Also hits per game seem to be an inverse of standings. More hits when lower in standings with a few outliers such as the panthers at 1 and leafs at 6. For hits wild are at 19, which is more than those soft nobody teams like the Jets, Knights, Avs, Stars, Oilers, Caps, and Canes.....

Missing top 3 defenseman, Kap, and Lauko with NO CAP SPACE LEFT, you now want to have players take runs, cheap shots "eye for eye" that has been mentioned and possibly face suspensions? Great now with injuries, no cap space and suspensions you have a team with a short bench that will have an even harder time trying to get through this stretch of injuries let alone winning games, yeah that will show em. 

Its not the 70s or 80s anymore, that's 40 to 50 years ago. The idea of moose running down and punishing McDavid or Drai is impossible, they are considered 2 of the best, McD being one of if not the fastest player in the league. When has ANYONE had a clean shot on them? If they have, its super rare, for a reason.  You can't force someone to fight either, takes two to tango, so what if Moose tries to drop em with McD after the hit and he doesn't drop em? That's a penalty, probably not the best position to be in.  I am sure many won't agree here but reality is things happen, injuries happen, cheap shots happen, to all teams. Since the Jets and Avs are so soft, don't fight, don't hit, why aren't they getting cheap shotted all the time? 

the jets, avs, stars, knights, kings deter cheap shots with the way they play. they are relentless, physical and mean. that is different to our play of mostly finesse. yeah we have our foligno always asking some goon to fight here and there but mostly we are easy targets. you want prove? look at our lineup! and this is only regular season. 

54 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

the jets, avs, stars, knights, kings deter cheap shots with the way they play. they are relentless, physical and mean. that is different to our play of mostly finesse. yeah we have our foligno always asking some goon to fight here and there but mostly we are easy targets. you want prove? look at our lineup! and this is only regular season. 

They play mean? Like hit more? More physical? The numbers and stats say otherwise. What do you mean by "physical and mean"?. Yes foligno asks goons to fight, because mackinnon and McDavids don't fight. We hit more and fight more than the teams listed by you. You know what those teams do? Win on the scoreboard. Injuries mostly are just bad luck. 

10 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

They play mean? Like hit more? More physical? The numbers and stats say otherwise. What do you mean by "physical and mean"?. Yes foligno asks goons to fight, because mackinnon and McDavids don't fight. We hit more and fight more than the teams listed by you. You know what those teams do? Win on the scoreboard. Injuries mostly are just bad luck. 

did you see relentless push by vegas against us? a team of physical, skilled, players that play on the edge...right on it, not cooke level but very punishing play. foligno and trenin - yes the hit a lot. but they also are restrictive in their role - they play a shut down 3rd line - they are never there when these things happen....why?.... because no one cares about them! they care about our top6.

we need to be engaged in physicality in our top 6 core. that is our major flaw. there is NO ONE on our top 6 right now that can deter violence (funny enough it may be Kap himself, but to ask that from your superstar is idiotic) and we need to upgrade that. Granny does not help with that, while Tuch does. 

imagine mcdavid doing that to MJ if say a tkachuk is on MJ's line? that is top deterrence. macdavid would be too cowardly to try that if there is a player who can immediately take him. and they could have. but no one wanted to. your 3rd/4th liners who get their hit stats up mean nothing when battle is between top lines. you need to be there to make a difference. 

all these teams are playing a more physical game with their top 6. yes. 

9 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

did you see relentless push by vegas against us? a team of physical, skilled, players that play on the edge...right on it, not cooke level but very punishing play. foligno and trenin - yes the hit a lot. but they also are restrictive in their role - they play a shut down 3rd line - they are never there when these things happen....why?.... because no one cares about them! they care about our top6.

we need to be engaged in physicality in our top 6 core. that is our major flaw. there is NO ONE on our top 6 right now that can deter violence (funny enough it may be Kap himself, but to ask that from your superstar is idiotic) and we need to upgrade that. Granny does not help with that, while Tuch does. 

imagine mcdavid doing that to MJ if say a tkachuk is on MJ's line? that is top deterrence. macdavid would be too cowardly to try that if there is a player who can immediately take him. and they could have. but no one wanted to. your 3rd/4th liners who get their hit stats up mean nothing when battle is between top lines. you need to be there to make a difference. 

all these teams are playing a more physical game with their top 6. yes. 

Yes because tkachuk is known for fighting other teams top guys...... Oh wait just the goons who also choose to fight.  With that mentality how upset you gonna be about kap and body getting cheap shotted and run over by the tkachuks because bogo hit a 3rd or 4th line guy? Most here would bitch and moan forger about that, but that's what you are wanting the wild to do. By the logic you laid out Vegas should have tried to remove body for an extended period for his hit on stone right? What a bunch of softies vegas is for not destroying him and making him hurt.... 

Also what do you mean a player can immediately take him? Like fought? Taken a run after the whistle? Sounds like a good way to get a 5 and game because guess who won't be fighting. How's that help? How do these other teams win games without being super physical and mean? Again look at fights and hits, top teams in the league, minus Florida, are near bottom of those lists. 

48 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

Yes because tkachuk is known for fighting other teams top guys...... Oh wait just the goons who also choose to fight.  With that mentality how upset you gonna be about kap and body getting cheap shotted and run over by the tkachuks because bogo hit a 3rd or 4th line guy? Most here would bitch and moan forger about that, but that's what you are wanting the wild to do. By the logic you laid out Vegas should have tried to remove body for an extended period for his hit on stone right? What a bunch of softies vegas is for not destroying him and making him hurt.... 

Also what do you mean a player can immediately take him? Like fought? Taken a run after the whistle? Sounds like a good way to get a 5 and game because guess who won't be fighting. How's that help? How do these other teams win games without being super physical and mean? Again look at fights and hits, top teams in the league, minus Florida, are near bottom of those lists. 

 

Yes because tkachuk is known for fighting other teams top guys

it's not about tkachuk, it's about our top 6 make up. as a whole top 6 unit we lack that punch. 

With that mentality how upset you gonna be about kap and body getting cheap shotted and run over by the tkachuks because bogo hit a 3rd or 4th line guy?

this is a reality in such a physical sport.  if you have a finesse team, you usually are grounded to irrelevance by the time PO hits. to survive you need more muscle and grit and nasty.

Most here would bitch and moan forger about that, but that's what you are wanting the wild to do. By the logic you laid out Vegas should have tried to remove body for an extended period for his hit on stone right? What a bunch of softies vegas is for not destroying him and making him hurt....  what? you know stone is playing right? it's our players that are hurt. 

Also what do you mean a player can immediately take him? Like fought? you mean macdavid? yes why not? you immediately take him and engage with him. not ask foligno to fight someone like perry. 

Taken a run after the whistle? Sounds like a good way to get a 5 and game because guess who won't be fighting. well sometimes a response like that is needed. oh dear a 5 min penalty when you are fielding half a team of ahl players and the other half is being taken out by cheap shot. might be time.

How do these other teams win games without being super physical and mean? Again look at fights and hits, top teams in the league, minus Florida, are near bottom of those lists.  

what are you talking about? compare the top 6 of any contending western conf teams and you can see how we stack up. and that's not even taking into acct the opposing D. unfortunately Bogo (one of our most physical D) is not going to be playing that much to make any difference. 

47 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

 What are you talking about? compare the top 6 of any contending western conf teams and you can see how we stack up. and that's not even taking into acct the opposing D. unfortunately Bogo (one of our most physical D) is not going to be playing that much to make any difference. 

I agree look at all the other top teams minus Florida and see where they rank via hits and fights. I laid it out before but you must have missed it. For fun look at the bottom of standings and how that looks with hit and fight leaders. You and I just differ in how we like our hockey, you prefer 1975 rock em sock em tit for tat game I prefer more of a speed and skill game. You want a team of Marty McSorley, I prefer a team of MacKinnon or McDavid. 

28 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

I agree look at all the other top teams minus Florida and see where they rank via hits and fights. I laid it out before but you must have missed it. For fun look at the bottom of standings and how that looks with hit and fight leaders. You and I just differ in how we like our hockey, you prefer 1975 rock em sock em tit for tat game I prefer more of a speed and skill game. You want a team of Marty McSorley, I prefer a team of MacKinnon or McDavid. 

It's not about fights and hits. it's about deterrence of that behavior and doing it the right way.  

you want a team of McDavid? why? you have a team of Kaprizov! who is just as good as McDavid, but who is injured and has been a target for all these dirty players (And McDavid is one of them). I am arguing that a team's top 6 MUST have some strength and grit in them to bring the balance (zuccy and rossi and MJ and boldy and even EK just do not put fear into ANYONE)....otherwise Hockey is a violent sport and as we've seen it will bring these kind of results and injuries more and more on the teams that fail to reach that balance. look at our team now. we are basically half an AHL team. 

and yes - I like my star player not worrying about his back because the team is too soft and invites the punishment from punks like McDavid. there is no retaliation. You want to cheer for McDavid go for it. 

27 minutes ago, IllicitFive said:

I agree look at all the other top teams minus Florida and see where they rank via hits and fights. I laid it out before but you must have missed it. For fun look at the bottom of standings and how that looks with hit and fight leaders. You and I just differ in how we like our hockey, you prefer 1975 rock em sock em tit for tat game I prefer more of a speed and skill game. You want a team of Marty McSorley, I prefer a team of MacKinnon or McDavid. 

ODC has some strong opinions. Some are crazy.  Here...he's spot on though. 

It may not translate to "hits" on the stat sheet. Foligno has like nearly double the hits that M.Tkachuk has, but no one is going to argue he has more snarl or nastiness to his game.  Nor the talent.  According to TSN (https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/statistics) Tuch doesn't place high in that category either. In fact, Zucker has more hits.   However, both Tuch and Tkachuk both  have skill and play heavy.   The Wild absolutely lack this element in our top 6.

Interesting side note.  Brady has nearly double the hits than Matthew. 

10 minutes ago, PiranhasOnIce said:

ODC has some strong opinions. Some are crazy.  Here...he's spot on though. 

It may not translate to "hits" on the stat sheet. Foligno has like nearly double the hits that M.Tkachuk has, but no one is going to argue he has more snarl or nastiness to his game.  Nor the talent.  According to TSN (https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/statistics) Tuch doesn't place high in that category either. In fact, Zucker has more hits.   However, both Tuch and Tkachuk both  have skill and play heavy.   The Wild absolutely lack this element in our top 6.

Interesting side note.  Brady has nearly double the hits than Matthew. 

you right brotha! except that all my opinions are crazy....crazy good! ... 🤓

we've been loading up on 3/4 line players that bring the "punishment" for as long as Wild been around. and did they help/did it work? reaves? deslaurier? cooke? boogy? besides tussling with an irrelevant 4th liner, did anyone of them help? no. 

Too bad NoJo didn't focus more of his beard in the chin area VS. the neck region cause he might have been able to deflect a McElbow. 😆

Time to plug Ogie in there and never look back. A concussed NoJoon LTIR til his contract expires is the ultimate perfect end to his time in MN. 

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

you right brotha! except that all my opinions are crazy....crazy good! ... 🤓

we've been loading up on 3/4 line players that bring the "punishment" for as long as Wild been around. and did they help/did it work? reaves? deslaurier? cooke? boogy? besides tussling with an irrelevant 4th liner, did anyone of them help? no. 

 

Doesn't that go against the point you were making of needing those guys who will make someone pay for a cheap shot? Also not cheering for McDavid, just saying skill wise, brings more than almost anyone else. So grinders like above don't do it, skill guys won't do it. Are you asking for a team of super mario built guys? 6ft 2in 225 plus with silky it's and a sniper shot? Also with quick feet and great speed? You might be into something there, I'm sure nobody has ever thought to look for those kinds of players, large, skilled, and fast. Must be a treasure trove hiding. 

1 hour ago, PiranhasOnIce said:

ODC has some strong opinions. Some are crazy.  Here...he's spot on though. 

It may not translate to "hits" on the stat sheet. Foligno has like nearly double the hits that M.Tkachuk has, but no one is going to argue he has more snarl or nastiness to his game.  Nor the talent.  According to TSN (https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/statistics) Tuch doesn't place high in that category either. In fact, Zucker has more hits.   However, both Tuch and Tkachuk both  have skill and play heavy.   The Wild absolutely lack this element in our top 6.

Interesting side note.  Brady has nearly double the hits than Matthew. 

Never compared skill, my issue is with calling for "eye for an eye" which in this case means cheap shots back. Find me a team that doesn't want a M. Tkachuk, but there seems to be a shortage of that mold of player. Who on the oilers protects McDavid? What about the avs? Who's their agent of fear?

Grit, sure, who doesn't want a team to be hard to play against, calling for heads and eye for and eye, I don't agree with. There is a reason the phrase "the 2nd guy always gets caught",if you're that guy now you hurt the whole team. What if the other has the same mentality too, they hit nojo, so we run their star player maybe rough him up a bit, now a 4th line guy dives and takes out kaps knee busting a leg because it was their turn to retaliate. Would that be worth while? 

Again, grit? great! tough? absolutely! Petty retaliatory shots to even a score or "retaliate" as people have suggested? No way, there is a reason the game isn't played that way anymore. 

Throw the second coming of the Mother Of All Elbows and the opposing teams will settle down.

That was on my favorite Rock'em Sock'em Don Cherry VHS tape when I was a kid. Bure stuck up for himself. Granlund did it once. 

I think it's funny how weak of an elbow it was to take NoJo down so hard. That was some WWE stuff there or something. Two of the most weenie things in a row. The elbow was sneaky but who targets NoJo? Is McDoofbag jealous of the neck-beard? Either way, that's followed by a flop for the century. 

I dunno boys, I just see two weenies being weenies. 

11 hours ago, IllicitFive said:

Doesn't that go against the point you were making of needing those guys who will make someone pay for a cheap shot? Also not cheering for McDavid, just saying skill wise, brings more than almost anyone else. So grinders like above don't do it, skill guys won't do it. Are you asking for a team of super mario built guys? 6ft 2in 225 plus with silky it's and a sniper shot? Also with quick feet and great speed? You might be into something there, I'm sure nobody has ever thought to look for those kinds of players, large, skilled, and fast. Must be a treasure trove hiding. 

i am saying our top 6 must have some strength. right now we do not. hence people run around and take shots at us. 

20 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Dude is a robot with the personality of a potato. 

Kinda lumping a couple of your replies into one here.

For those calling the team and players "soft" there's no doubt in my mind Moose, Mids, Bogo, Trenin and hell even Jiri & Hartman would've wanted someone to oblige and answer the bell or deliver a shot of their own but I'm really in the camp Hynes quelled most of it.

The team depleted as much as it is why risk a suspension right now? 

Hartman did retaliate and risked suspension because of it. He swept Drai's legs and gave him a few crosschecks while he was down. The problem is, despite the comments, retaliation doesn't deter. It just puts us in the box, where we suck. 

Dean's team struggled with controlling their emotions and ended up in the box a ton and hated by the refs. We still got injured and cheap shotted. That is just hockey. We want to go back to that place? We are one of the least penalized teams right now which has been helping us overachieve. There is merit to playing hard and clean hockey but retaliation will always get called. Every single time. 

18 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Spurgeon slew footed into the boards, out 2-3 weeks (traded with a 3 game suspension for the perpetrator. 

Does no one on here remember Trenin leaping over Spurge (cool to see but dangerous AF) to pound L'Hureaux who turtled? He landed some solid shots.

What good would it have done to go after someone else in that game? We'll see if anything carries over for Saturday.

11 hours ago, IllicitFive said:

Never compared skill, my issue is with calling for "eye for an eye" which in this case means cheap shots back. Find me a team that doesn't want a M. Tkachuk, but there seems to be a shortage of that mold of player. Who on the oilers protects McDavid? What about the avs? Who's their agent of fear?

Grit, sure, who doesn't want a team to be hard to play against, calling for heads and eye for and eye, I don't agree with. There is a reason the phrase "the 2nd guy always gets caught",if you're that guy now you hurt the whole team. What if the other has the same mentality too, they hit nojo, so we run their star player maybe rough him up a bit, now a 4th line guy dives and takes out kaps knee busting a leg because it was their turn to retaliate. Would that be worth while? 

Again, grit? great! tough? absolutely! Petty retaliatory shots to even a score or "retaliate" as people have suggested? No way, there is a reason the game isn't played that way anymore. 

What about the avs? Who's their agent of fear?

Well let's see .... when Avs won the Cup they had - 

• Kadri, Landeskog are dogs
• Nichushkin, Rantanen and Burakovsky are all 6'4'' 210+
• McKinnon is the skill

Who in our lineup fits the above?

• Zuccy, Rossi are dogs?
• Ek and Boldy are our sizable players....one is a punching bag and the other is a figure skating showman
• Kaprizov is the skill and gets brutally assaulted
• MJ is already taken out

There are deterrents, for instance, early in his career Tom Wilson played top line....in the playoffs. At the time he was a 4th liner. Nobody wants to face a Tkachuk. It's not always in the hits or fighting majors, sometimes it's in the coincidental 2 minute roughing after the whistle calls where a Tkachuk certainly got the better of the opponent and the other guy got 2 minutes for being roughed. 

Retaliation and counter retaliation: Perhaps this is the problem. Why are we forced into retaliation? Why aren't we bringing the hurt to begin with....especially at home? Asking someone to fight? Why does there always need to be asking? Sometimes you start raining punches and make them defend themselves. If it's a star, you usually get a 3rd man in. 

Roster construction: If this happens and another team retaliates against Kaprizov, which other guy defends him? Rossi or Zuccy? Or does that fall on the defense? This is a problem. Ek will get into scrums but he doesn't fight. He'll hit people hard, too. So, that's one guy in the top 6. 

Or, maybe, it's not roster construction but line construction? Maybe come playoff time it should be Hartsy with Rossi and Kaprizov, Foligno with Boldy and Ek? Maybe we get more production out of Trenin with Zuccy feeding him? Or, maybe it is roster construction because these guys are all we could get to fill roles with the restrictions on us, and guys who can play top 6 and can take the body are out of our price range? 

What will change when Yurov and Ohgren arrive? Are they tough or small? More importantly, are they willing to deliver 5 crosschecks on a guy because they can and are mean enough to do so? 

Really, this whole argument isn't about fighting or hits, this whole argument is about playing mean or playing nice. We have very little mean in our lineup. Truthfully, everyone but Ek looks like they've had vasectomies. Sure anyone can get pissed off, but nobody but Ek consistently plays a hard game. Yes, that includes Foligno and Trenin. Their hard game is part time only. Do you know what the lineup majors in? Debate club. They whine and complain all the time instead of doing something about it. They don't ever say, "so that's how we're going to play it," and change their actions. 

Sometimes, you simply have to lose your mind and go full scorched earth embarrassing referees. I don't know if anyone on this team is willing to go that far. Crazy eyes Maroon could have. 

21 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Let's review:

Kaprizov hit with knee to knee or thigh contact last time we played this team.

Faber out due to a hit with an elbow during St. Louis game.

Spurgeon slew footed into the boards, out 2-3 weeks (traded with a 3 game suspension for the perpetrator. 

Brodin was hit in the foot by a shot, nothing nefarious here.

Who knows what happened to Lauko.

Do we need any reason on our home ice to meltdown once a guy gets elbowed in the jaw? I would think that would be the time for enough is enough, but who knows, maybe we haven't hit bottom on the injury due to chippy play yet. You know who would take this crap? A Tkachuk! Every single player on this roster would play better if they knew a Tkachuk had their back. Rossi would think he was 6'2" with a guy like Tkachuk in the lineup.

I just have a feeling this Saturday in Nashville is gonna be the boiling point. Nashville will scratch L'Heureux, and the Wild will take heads. Stammer, Marchesault, Josi, Forsberg and even Saros all will have targets on their back that game. Then if we play the Oilers in the playoffs, Leon won't have teeth and Nurse will need a new nose.

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

There are deterrents, for instance, early in his career Tom Wilson played top line....in the playoffs. At the time he was a 4th liner. Nobody wants to face a Tkachuk. It's not always in the hits or fighting majors, sometimes it's in the coincidental 2 minute roughing after the whistle calls where a Tkachuk certainly got the better of the opponent and the other guy got 2 minutes for being roughed. 

Retaliation and counter retaliation: Perhaps this is the problem. Why are we forced into retaliation? Why aren't we bringing the hurt to begin with....especially at home? Asking someone to fight? Why does there always need to be asking? Sometimes you start raining punches and make them defend themselves. If it's a star, you usually get a 3rd man in. 

Roster construction: If this happens and another team retaliates against Kaprizov, which other guy defends him? Rossi or Zuccy? Or does that fall on the defense? This is a problem. Ek will get into scrums but he doesn't fight. He'll hit people hard, too. So, that's one guy in the top 6. 

Or, maybe, it's not roster construction but line construction? Maybe come playoff time it should be Hartsy with Rossi and Kaprizov, Foligno with Boldy and Ek? Maybe we get more production out of Trenin with Zuccy feeding him? Or, maybe it is roster construction because these guys are all we could get to fill roles with the restrictions on us, and guys who can play top 6 and can take the body are out of our price range? 

What will change when Yurov and Ohgren arrive? Are they tough or small? More importantly, are they willing to deliver 5 crosschecks on a guy because they can and are mean enough to do so? 

Really, this whole argument isn't about fighting or hits, this whole argument is about playing mean or playing nice. We have very little mean in our lineup. Truthfully, everyone but Ek looks like they've had vasectomies. Sure anyone can get pissed off, but nobody but Ek consistently plays a hard game. Yes, that includes Foligno and Trenin. Their hard game is part time only. Do you know what the lineup majors in? Debate club. They whine and complain all the time instead of doing something about it. They don't ever say, "so that's how we're going to play it," and change their actions. 

Sometimes, you simply have to lose your mind and go full scorched earth embarrassing referees. I don't know if anyone on this team is willing to go that far. Crazy eyes Maroon could have. 

This is why I'm excited for Zeev either this year or next. Some size to compliment a few smaller guys. But in the now, we use Jon Merrill as an ICBM and straight launch him at the best players.