Can Ryan Hartman Continue This Level Of Play?

Hartman is a streaky player.  However, he always manages to remind people how good he is right as people start writing him off.

If we listed the Wild lineup in order of who’s the biggest problem I’d group 38 special in with the Ek, 97’s and Boldy.  Is he a hot headed idiot sometimes?  Yep, but he’s our hot headed idiot who can finish and rarely mails it in. 

Every team needs a rat. Hartman fills that role on the Wild. If he can continue that without taking dumb penalties his value will soar.

I've never understood why people, not necessarily on here, were so upset that we extended Hartman instead of using him as trade bait last year. The guy is pretty much your ideal middle-6 forward who can play all positions up the lineup if there are injuries and he is exactly who you want playing on your 3rd line in the post-season if you're healthy. 

Getting him for $4M will look great by the end of his contract.

I pulled this off of Russo's twitter/X account

Quote

Bill Guerin says Jared Spurgeon won’t be on at least the start of the next road trip. The #mnwild GM says this is part of the “healing process” of last year’s back and hip surgeries and he needs rest and maintenance.

So, we're in the play 2 games, take 2 weeks off mode now? I thought he was "healed" coming into the season. To me, this sounds more concerning than just "rest and maintenance." So, does he feel good in 10 days and then plays a couple more games only to need this again? Can we afford this? Can we afford a Kaptain to do this? I realize the guys see the pain he goes through and won't count it against him, but should Spurgy man up and pass the torch on to Ek? 

Does this also mean we will need to carry 8 defenders? If so, that pretty well puts The Wall back in Iowa and Vaj as a backup. Everyone can see we need an extra forward too. We burned through that guy already. 

From a hockey standpoint, at what point should Guerin say "we can't keep doing this" and stick Spurgy on LTIR to do his rest and maintenance until mid-April and go out and get a guy who's available every night? My suggestion was targeting Provorov who I'm pretty sure will not be resigning with CBJ. He might resign here, and was in the same draft year as Kaprizov and Trenin. While he's never played here, a couple of guys would be familiar with his play. 

Guerin was a player. He knows the mid 30s. To this point, he has done a lousy job of telling players when it's over. He's been through it. He knows that the player is the last to know when it's time. With this injury, and quality of life after hockey, it may be time for Spurgy to think about retirement. He's beaten the odds so far and has been a 1st class defender and 1st class human on this team for 15 years. At 5'9" 166, you can only take so much punishment before it's over. We desperately need defender coaches in our organization. 

Perhaps it's time to think of that rather than keep on playing? Perhaps Guerin can make up the lost income of retirement with a decent salary on staff? It really sucks to get to an age where retirement is here, and the other stuff you love to do is no longer a physical option (my experience is speaking here). So, here's my advice to Spurgy: if this will continue to be an issue, walk away while you can still walk. If it's a minor setback, treat it that way but remember, you will be the last to know it's over. Trust the people around you to help you see when it's time.

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I pulled this off of Russo's twitter/X account

So, we're in the play 2 games, take 2 weeks off mode now? I thought he was "healed" coming into the season. To me, this sounds more concerning than just "rest and maintenance." So, does he feel good in 10 days and then plays a couple more games only to need this again? Can we afford this? Can we afford a Kaptain to do this? I realize the guys see the pain he goes through and won't count it against him, but should Spurgy man up and pass the torch on to Ek? 

Does this also mean we will need to carry 8 defenders? If so, that pretty well puts The Wall back in Iowa and Vaj as a backup. Everyone can see we need an extra forward too. We burned through that guy already. 

From a hockey standpoint, at what point should Guerin say "we can't keep doing this" and stick Spurgy on LTIR to do his rest and maintenance until mid-April and go out and get a guy who's available every night? My suggestion was targeting Provorov who I'm pretty sure will not be resigning with CBJ. He might resign here, and was in the same draft year as Kaprizov and Trenin. While he's never played here, a couple of guys would be familiar with his play. 

Guerin was a player. He knows the mid 30s. To this point, he has done a lousy job of telling players when it's over. He's been through it. He knows that the player is the last to know when it's time. With this injury, and quality of life after hockey, it may be time for Spurgy to think about retirement. He's beaten the odds so far and has been a 1st class defender and 1st class human on this team for 15 years. At 5'9" 166, you can only take so much punishment before it's over. We desperately need defender coaches in our organization. 

Perhaps it's time to think of that rather than keep on playing? Perhaps Guerin can make up the lost income of retirement with a decent salary on staff? It really sucks to get to an age where retirement is here, and the other stuff you love to do is no longer a physical option (my experience is speaking here). So, here's my advice to Spurgy: if this will continue to be an issue, walk away while you can still walk. If it's a minor setback, treat it that way but remember, you will be the last to know it's over. Trust the people around you to help you see when it's time.

It is looking more and more like his injuries have caught up to him. I don't know what his contract looks like as in how much was preloaded or is it just a straight salary contract. If he is cooked he could possibly retire or just do a Hossa and go on LTIR through the end. His contract could be sold to a team like Columbus who has to add to hit the minimum.

3 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

It is looking more and more like his injuries have caught up to him. I don't know what his contract looks like as in how much was preloaded or is it just a straight salary contract. If he is cooked he could possibly retire or just do a Hossa and go on LTIR through the end. His contract could be sold to a team like Columbus who has to add to hit the minimum.

Actual money is $8m this year, $7m next year and $6.25m in '26-27. The contract is not a 35+ deal nor does it have cap recapture issues. I think if he retires his salary is wiped out, but Guerin could make that up to him with staff salaries. Or, they could just LTIR him and regain the space. 

But here's the rub: and this is an unforced error, Spurgeon knew ahead of time that this rest and maintenance would happen. I'm sure that the surgeons and trainers told Guerin the same thing. If you've got a guy like that who has to go through this, it really puts the team out. You're almost committed to having to carry 2 extra D, and your pairs are going to be squirrelly. This means you cannot afford the luxury of 3 goalies. This means you've got to leave enough cap room for other injuries. 

To my knowledge, we are up against the cap again, which means that Guerin did not learn his lesson from last year. Looking at the cap we have about $1.4m left. We can carry 23 ok, but we just saw what happened to Ek and Johansson. If we have what happened last season again, where many players were out, we're going to have to use LTIR to survive. 

What really pisses me off is that Guerin knew this about Spurgeon before the season started and still went too close to the cap. That is poor planning and in my eyes poor management. And, he's kind of stuck, because there's not much he can do about Spurgeon's issue. But there should be a solid $2.5m cushion that gets eaten daily. Last season, he rolled the dice and put up 7s. This season, he should have been prepared to use his depth, and it appears once again he is not. 

I don't see Guerin as much of a cap guy. I see him delegating that responsibility, but, wow, you've got to have a minimal understanding of how this stuff works. Our capologist must be downing Tums day and night just to get this stuff to fit in! Did OCL not tell him in the original interview that there would be math? What we need in the FO is a guy who has both a CPA and Law degree who can work miracles and have loopholes all lined up. A guy who can fit in $5m with $500k in space. A real good capologist should be worth a lot of gold. 

On 10/17/2024 at 11:46 AM, B1GKappa97 said:

I've never understood why people, not necessarily on here, were so upset that we extended Hartman instead of using him as trade bait last year. The guy is pretty much your ideal middle-6 forward who can play all positions up the lineup if there are injuries and he is exactly who you want playing on your 3rd line in the post-season if you're healthy. 

Getting him for $4M will look great by the end of his contract.

My main reason for disliking him has been his discipline.  He can be a good player, but he certainly costs us a bit when he acts out and we have PK issues and can't keep pace in scoring.

A more disciplined Hartman is a player I'm glad to have on the team.  I like a player with a little grit who takes up space in other player's heads (e.g. Ek).  I'm happy to eat any bad word I've said about Hartman if he can follow that example too and keep the stupid stuff to a minimum.