What Standard Have the Wild Set For Themselves?

I don't always agree with your articles, but you make some excellent points here. This core of players has reached their ceiling, 1st round of the playoffs. Trading Gus for a high 1st round pick if possible makes sense with Wallstedt being the goalie of the future. Get some of the young guys that are ready in the AHL playing time in the NHL. They have two years to build a team around Ek, Boldy and Kaprizov. 

I wish the wild would go into full rebuild mode for the remainder of this cap crunch. Load up with talent, and come out in 25/26 use up the newly found cap space, and dominate for a couple seasons. But we will never ever do that with a MN sports team. Somehow being just above average is just fine here in the land of 10,000 1st round exits.

Gustavsson to MTL or ARI for 5th or 6th overall. That sounds pretty fair. Maybe you need to throw in a prospect and a future pick. If the Wild had a play to get into the top ten and Brackett doesn’t go full-guru, I’d say do it since Wallstedt is there. 
 

I’ve begun to like the idea of sending Fleury back to Pittsburgh and signing Gus too. He’s hot right now so there’s good reason to use him to improve the team overall. 5th or 6th would give the Wild good options but I’m pretty sure if Carlsson is still available, Brackett goes elite Swede all over again. For a team who would like to solidify the net position it might be worth that pick if you’ve already banked some good prospects from the 1st round like MTL & ARI have?

I think there is a serious misunderstanding among a lot of the fan base as to what, exactly, Guerin is trying to accomplish. Let's break this down:

1. It is well established that OCL, you know, the guy who is Guerin's boss, insists on being invited to the playoffs year after year. If Guerin is going to rebuild this team, he must do it with a "competitive" roster at the N level.
2. Guerin signaled that the old regime was over when he bought out Suter and Parise. The penalty was 5 years of cap hell. He knew this going in.
3. Guerin would have to find value players who consistently punched above their weight class. I have called these guys placeholders.
4. Guerin would build from within, restocking the cupboards, developing them, and to his discretion, not rushing them to the show. This is really important, because it is a choice of how best to develop young players. Guerin values putting them in positions to succeed and be confident more than he values having them learn tough lessons in the N.
5. Due to the mandate to compete for a playoff position every year, it is predetermined that we will be drafting somewhere in the teens. But, Guerin has also brought in an extra 1st the last 2 drafts. 
6. From when this plan started, it would take 5 seasons before it started to pay off, the key word here is "started." We have 2 more seasons before that "started" kicks in. 
7. In the mean time, placeholders will be on the main roster until someone knocks them out. They must earn that place. We have seen Boldy knock out a player and we just saw Faber knock out Addison. More of this will come.
8. During this time, the Wild will need a perfect storm to advance in the playoffs. They will need a hot goalie, they will need a hot Boldy/Kaprizov, and they will need perfect health. Besides the hole we have down the middle, a team in our situation can only backfill injuries with young, inexperienced players. Should 1 or 2 get hot filling in, well that's a good thing. 

I think all expectations need to be tempered to this reality. We have simply overachieved in the regular season, mainly by taking care of business in games we should win. When we get to the playoffs, we're not playing those teams anymore. 

Dallas beat us with center depth and a hot goalie games 5 & 6. St. Louis beat us with center depth and the hot goalie. Vegas beat us with center depth and a goalie that matched ours. All 3 seasons, this team overachieved their roster on paper. All 3 seasons they were sent packing by superior teams in key positions. 

This season was not a failure, it was successful. Development of drafted players looked to be good. We had Shaw finally ready who made an impact, and Faber did so late. Beckman improved, hopefully Rossi did too. Our defensive prospects got better, and The Wall did really well. Our placeholders did the best they could but were outmanned, specifically down the middle with Eriksson Ek out. The plan went 1 season closer to the goal. Enjoy the ride!

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There was no desire to change things that weren’t working. Look at the Carolina Hurricanes. They lost one of their best players, Andrei Svechnikov, to an ACL tear. They still made it to the playoffs, and now they’re in the conference finals. They even lost Teuvo Teraveinen in the first round and still played extremely well without two impact players.

Paccioretty going down was also a huge loss to the Hurricanes. I think he got hurt against us too.

There is a major difference between the Wild and Hurricanes playing: Carolina is required to play a full 60 minute game, Minnesota is not. We've had a bunch of slow starts or missing periods. Carolina, generally starts quick and keeps on going. I'm not sure if it is coaching staff, captains, or a really young core of players, but they do play this way.

The only way a team can overcome the talent injured like Carolina has is to play that way. If there is one thing I'd like to see changed, it is that aspect, and it is mental. It was there when Koivu was captain and has been tolerated for many years. This team simply doesn't like to start on time.

24 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Dallas beat us with center depth and a hot goalie games 5 & 6. St. Louis beat us with center depth and the hot goalie. Vegas beat us with center depth and a goalie that matched ours. All 3 seasons, this team overachieved their roster on paper. All 3 seasons they were sent packing by superior teams in key positions. 

Spot on.  The weakness of this team is glaring BG right smack dab in the eyes.

If he hasn't already targeted a 1st line C for two years out I would be surprised.  He has to be setting something up with all that cap space.

I agree that we should take a step back to step up in the draft and give ourselves a better shot at talent coming from those draft picks.

I take issue with a few points;

Play Fleury out? No, hell no. Play Gus Bus as much as possible to develop him. Even if we get a short contract done we can still sell high while he puts up amazing numbers. Playing Fleury is beating a dead horse at this point, he is a solid backup or a 1B and nothing more.

Calling Rossi a bust after two years in the A after he loses a year in development to a serious heart condition is getting way ahead of ourselves. I would hate to see us give him away for cents on the dollar for him to flourish elsewhere. Keep him at least until the end of his ELC. Give him another shot at the big show with all the tools he developed last year. He has become a better player and developed, just not a superstar yet. He may never get there but having a young top 9 C on the team will help with our utter lack of center depth at the moment. 

I completely agree that we need to drop the grit first mentality. I'm not sure how we expect to develop skill players when all the emphasis we here from our FO is on grit. We send guys back down because they don't have snarl in their game. Judging by our penalties, snarl isn't our issue. Goalscoring, PP and PK are.

Use this season to let the callups develop chemistry and bring their game up to the speed it needs to be. Don't be afraid to call guys up to the big show and give them a run. Stop picking up placeholders, we need our youth to develop in a bad way. The only way we see if they can make it is by putting them there. 

The team has hit its ceiling and they will continue to get knocked out swiftly year after year until they get better up the middle. How many times does everyone want to see this happen before the team actually does something about it? The Wild need a major shakeup otherwise this is the standard.

In order to make the team better, they need to take some serious risks. To get a legit 1C you have to pay up. There is no one coming to save them. Rossi? Khusnutdinov? Not happening. Anyone not named Kirill Kaprizov should be made available to make it happen....

The obvious place to start is by looking to trade Matt Boldy.

I'd be asking on Mathew Barzal and Elias Petterson first. How likely are we to strike a deal for either? I don't know. Boldy would be missed, but we have plenty of winger depth to go around.

If they whiff on the trade? Well, at least they tried and at least they'll be able to pick higher in the draft from now on, so they can at least have a chance at drafting the center prospects they miss out on every year.

If it works out, maybe we can start winning some series and have some fun.  I just think standing pat looks to be the absolute worst option about now.

I’ve been a supportive fan since day one but this year I hope the worst for them.  If this team was like the lemaire era teams that worked hard all the time I could support this compete for playoffs and rebuild. They don’t work hard and give up too easily. They do enough to get to playoffs (not hard) then quit. So we get a late round ( not a franchise type pick ) draft pick an a terrible ending to season.  Rinse and repeat for 23 years  the excuses over the years are always the same . What’s the excuse for not playing hard? 
    I hope this year we crumble so a few things may happen. We get a top 10 pick. Dean gets relieved of his duties. We actually trade players at deadline and get good draft picks in return. We let young players play instead of 30 year old late bloomers . I hope kappy gets sick of carrying this team on his back so they finally start considering getting him help before he’s gone . 

   Realistically they won’t be good till their 30 year anniversary. Look at Toronto , Edmonton. There 1st overall picks take years of nhl experience to become playoff type players . So are prospects have a lot of years to go to see if they’re even legit. Is are scouting department good? Rossi makes me question it. None of judds picks have made nhl yet so the jury is still out on scouting. A lot has to go right if we’re rebuilding with late round picks . 
    Tank this season, get good pick. Relieve Dean of duties . Trade free agents at deadline . Build with high end picks . Enough embarrassing playoff performances. Work on playing hard all the time before worrying about making playoffs. Hold players and coaches accountable ! 
 

1 hour ago, dlhouse said:

Anyone not named Kirill Kaprizov should be made available to make it happen....

I don't disagree with you in that the Wild are in need of a 1C.  However, our veteran D core of Middleton, Spurgeon, Dumba and Brodin has been fantastic and a big reason this team is even remotely competitive.  As for forwards I think there could be an argument made about who is our most important forward .... Kirill or Ek.  

While the playoffs have been painful I sure have enjoyed the regular seasons.

7 hours ago, MercuryMack said:

Trading Gus for a high 1st round pick if possible makes sense

Getting a 1st or high 2nd for Gus seems like the move for BG here.  If his 2020-2023 draft picks cannot come to big club and be difference makers quickly (Rossi, etc), then BG needs to manufacture more picks/prospects the old fashioned way: hustle. 

Converting Gus (who we rec'd from 35 yo T-Bot) would be an example of GM hustle.  If not this club risks going sideways for next 3-5 yrs.

4 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

I completely agree that we need to drop the grit first mentality. I'm not sure how we expect to develop skill players when all the emphasis we here from our FO is on grit. We send guys back down because they don't have snarl in their game. Judging by our penalties, snarl isn't our issue.

The "grit" mentality is the way this team has to go to be winning right now. But with what's coming, that won't always be the case. The prospects which Guerin has drafted all seem to be in the smaller weight class. Even O'Rourke and Hunt are smaller players at this time. 

It looks to me that skill is on the way, but we need to be patient for it. The identity of the team will also be in transition as we replace the gritty placeholders with skilled players coming up to take their spot. 

5 hours ago, dlhouse said:

How many times does everyone want to see this happen before the team actually does something about it? The Wild need a major shakeup otherwise this is the standard.

I think the shakeup was ZP and RS. Now it's a matter of patience to see if BG can make it work. I don't like how he's gone about it, but it's been fun.

5 hours ago, Dean said:

 Tank this season, get good pick. Relieve Dean of duties .

Be careful what you wish for. He's overachieved in every season so far. If you could just get rid of good coaches for better ones everyone would do it. If you fire Dean and miss you could set the team back even farther. I'd like to see what Evenson could do on an even playing field.

5 hours ago, dlhouse said:

I'd be asking on Mathew Barzal and Elias Petterson first.

Vancouver is in a world of hurt, both with cap and with their players. Pettersson may not even decide to sign with them longterm. I don't know what they want, but they've got to shed cap badly. I wonder if they would take a bevy of prospects/lower cost players? 

For us, how do we even begin to fit that cap number into our team? If Pettersson wants to come over, I'd say we have to make room for him! I'm not sure that Boldy is the guy to go, but if he were, the cap hit would be almost a wash. 

But, if it wasn't Boldy, where do we subtract about $9m? That would be what it would take as we'd have to backfill a couple of positions with vet minimum or ELCs. Or, could Spurgeon be the guy? I'm thinking that Zuccarello and Foligno would have to be the 2 who would go. Can this team survive losing Foligno? Would we have enough grit to do it? Is Duhaime enough? 

Or maybe we just focus on outscoring people with a lot of fast skating and timely shooting?

I don't want a Barzal or Petterrsson at a high-cost. I would rather the Wild have drafted or acquired a guy like Verhaghe who has proven themselves but is not yet at their max cost. Generally that's how you get burned. 

The Canucks got Louie Errikkssonn and had to wait out that bad deal before signing other big contracts to which they're now beholden. 

The Wild will need to look for value in guys like Haula, Nosek, or Barbashev who they could possibly afford for now or look for the players they missed in the draft like Faber. Hard part is 1Cs are always in high-demand and not easy to find cheap unless through the draft. The Wild need to wait if there is isn't a money in, money out deal for a top six center.

Gus, coming off the season he had is the best chance to get a top pick or decent center.

6 hours ago, Protec said:

Hard part is 1Cs are always in high-demand and not easy to find cheap unless through the draft.

That is a roll of the dice really.  What are the chances of drafting a 1C without a top pick?  I don't know but I am thinking it's probably like hitting a hard 10.  

I think there is no choice but to try to bring in a FA 1C 2 years out.  Other than that it is Rossi magically kicking major ass.

^^^

I agree 100% that you're not likely bringing in a 1C from the draft not named Matthews, McDavid, Tkachuk, Brakov, etc. 1C players are different too on different teams. Toronto had Tavares, O'Rielly, and Matthews but couldn't beat Florida. That's an interesting case cause a lot of money was spent between those players.

Certainly a roll of the dice but the chances of a center selected in the first round has led to a lot of solid NHL productivity for players who might not immediately become top six players but who can make a significant impact. Jarvis, Mercer, and Lundell are examples and Ek is a great example of what can be if you can be patient. Good centers that make it are found late in the 1st or into the 2nd round just not by MN.

It is looking sketchy for MN since they haven't got anything from the draft for nearly ten years to add depth down the middle. Plus when faceoffs are a huge deficiency for the Wild, it's tough to envision where the help will come from. Sadly we've been saying this for a long time. Things have certainly gone sideways in that GMBG had been patiently waiting for the timing to make a center trade possible. Eichel was too risky and expensive but in the meantime the Wild's new contracts and cap penalties have truly made their upgrade more difficult via free agency or trade.

The placeholder strategy Guerin has used isn't too bad but the results in the post season aren't impressive albeit STL and DAL aren't bad teams to lose to. The Wild look like they can be the same good team again next year but the level of urgency has to be there related to goaltending, the draft, and free agency. Guerin has had some good fortune with Fiala and now with Gus having career years while young RFAs. It seems like a really smart play to turn a UFA signing in Talbot which became an unproven goalie turned Vezina conversation guy Gus into a high pick or top center to improve the team while goalie depth is good. I mean they picked Wallstedt to play and be the guy. If Fleury stays, then the goalie debate doesn't arise. If Fleury, Gus, and Wallstedt are there, then the cost and depth at that position is perhaps more than needed. At that point you'd have to wonder why if there was a chance to improve at center. Sure Wallstedt isn't a proven NHL tendy and yes Fleury had some great stretches last year. Gus sure looked the part, but it's a pretty obvious area of potential for MN at this point to get better down the middle while current prospects aren't the solution. The failures from 2016-2018 or traded picks from that time is consequential today while the Wild struggle fill the center roles with talent.

On 5/18/2023 at 6:49 PM, mnfaninnc said:

The "grit" mentality is the way this team has to go to be winning right now. But with what's coming, that won't always be the case. The prospects which Guerin has drafted all seem to be in the smaller weight class. Even O'Rourke and Hunt are smaller players at this time. 

It looks to me that skill is on the way, but we need to be patient for it. The identity of the team will also be in transition as we replace the gritty placeholders with skilled players coming up to take their spot. 

My question is; how are we affecting the skill player's development by demanding grit from them. Specifically with Rossi whom has never been a "grit player". Why are we playing him on a grinder line then complaining he isn't putting up points?

It all seems very discouraging to a young player who is not the prototypical power forward. They are lots of shifty small players that go a long way in the NHL but you have to let them play their game within their skill set. Seems like our FO is looking at Rossi and asking him to be a Jamie Benn while he a Martin St. Louis type player. I just don't see that going well and we will obviously be disappointed trying to shove a round peg in a square hole.  Seems like they set him up for failure instead of working to his strengths. As Jon Cooper says "You treat everyone fairly, but not every player the same". Dean and Guerin need desperately to learn this lesson.

1 hour ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

My question is; how are we affecting the skill player's development by demanding grit from them. Specifically with Rossi whom has never been a "grit player". Why are we playing him on a grinder line then complaining he isn't putting up points?

It all seems very discouraging to a young player who is not the prototypical power forward. They are lots of shifty small players that go a long way in the NHL but you have to let them play their game within their skill set. Seems like our FO is looking at Rossi and asking him to be a Jamie Benn while he a Martin St. Louis type player. I just don't see that going well and we will obviously be disappointed trying to shove a round peg in a square hole.  Seems like they set him up for failure instead of working to his strengths. As Jon Cooper says "You treat everyone fairly, but not every player the same". Dean and Guerin need desperately to learn this lesson.

You make some very valid points. Brackett took a chance on Rossi before the real identity of the Wild was set by BG and Deano. I don't believe he will live up to the grit member on any line here in MN.

I'm hoping this off season will prove to be of some value. I cant recall how many video clips and documentaries on Rossi I have seen.  They are not like any that you see of KK or Boldy in the weight room or in the field throwing tires around in Russia. Plain and simple Rossi is always skating, cutting edges and doing stick work, that's it from what I've seen of his routines. I agree he is not a grit player, but he is also not NHL strength ready and if he fails do address that he will be playing back in Europe in the 4th best league.

He appears to be a great kid, family strong, great values and hockey smart and I wish him the best of finding his niche in Minny, but I'm also willing to cut my losses and move on after this season if it doesn't look like its gonna work here and find him a team/place that works for a return for the WIld.

23 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

My question is; how are we affecting the skill player's development by demanding grit from them. Specifically with Rossi whom has never been a "grit player". Why are we playing him on a grinder line then complaining he isn't putting up points?

It all seems very discouraging to a young player who is not the prototypical power forward. They are lots of shifty small players that go a long way in the NHL but you have to let them play their game within their skill set. Seems like our FO is looking at Rossi and asking him to be a Jamie Benn while he a Martin St. Louis type player. I just don't see that going well and we will obviously be disappointed trying to shove a round peg in a square hole.  Seems like they set him up for failure instead of working to his strengths. As Jon Cooper says "You treat everyone fairly, but not every player the same". Dean and Guerin need desperately to learn this lesson.

This is completely fair, but, all players have to have some grit to them, and St. Louis was a feisty player while others fought his battles for him. 

For starters, let's look at St. Louis' career. It started in Calgary where he got a cup of coffee when he was 23. His next season was quite dismal scoring only 3 goals. 

Calgary let him walk and he signed with TBL. It took him 2 more seasons to develop and become really productive at 27. The St. Louis I remember was strong on his skates and stronger on his edges, but it took him awhile. Also, St. Louis was undrafted.

Rossi still needs to learn how to side step and deflect hits, how to position his body so he doesn't just get plowed, and how to stay a moving target instead of gliding and standing still. His compete level needs to rise to the occasion, and we need a little more of him asserting aggressiveness and using those edges proactively in the lineup. 

I agree he'll never be a grinder, but he's got to be able to get a little dirty. This means added strength, something he's got to do if he's going to be effective. Nobody wants him protecting a teammate and fighting Benn, but he does need to be able to take a hard check from a bigger player, and he needs to be able to throw one where he does some damage and not just get plowed. 

If you have an argument with our current developers in Hendricks, McCleod, and Bombadir not being the most skilled guys, I'd have to agree with you there. Modano should be helping him, not McCleod.