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  • What Does A Successful Path For Charlie Stramel Look Like?


    Image courtesy of Christopher Hanewinckel-USA TODAY Sports
    Tony Abbott

    The wider narrative of the Minnesota Wild picking Charlie Stramel at 21st overall is that he was a "reach." Stramel was hardly in anyone's Top-20 pre-draft lists, so the Wild getting a late-first to early-second round graded player at that spot felt aggressive to many. Director of Amateur Scouting Judd Brackett admitted as much, saying that they had targeted the center position with that pick.

    But the difference between him being a reach and a shoo-in for a top-15 pick is very subtle. It might have had entirely to do with where he played.

    Had Stramel stayed in the US National Development program, he'd have played against players of his own age or younger. Beyond that, he'd be playing with the top names in his peer group. Instead, he made the jump to college hockey with the Wisconsin Badgers. The leap from juniors to NCAA competition is tough enough, but the reeling Badgers threw Stramel boat anchors, not life preservers. Stramel faced the Big Ten's top competition every night on a team whose leading goal-scorer only scored 13 goals. Instead of dominating his peers, Stramel only had five goals and 12 points.

    But again, if he'd been able to improve his numbers against weaker competition, or perhaps even missed the 2022-23 season entirely, Stramel probably looks like a much better prospect than he currently is. And that's what the Wild are betting on. They didn't draft Stramel to be a third-line type of player, necessarily. That might well be his floor, but the idea is that he can put this year behind him and raise his stock to that of a top-six center.

    Is that a realistic expectation, though? Jumping a level and struggling could just be a hiccup in the road to a long, fruitful NHL career. It could also mean that the struggling player was never really that good to begin with. Are there other players who've looked like Stramel and turned out great, as the Wild are hoping?

    We're going to turn to Hockey Prospecting for some answers. Hockey Prospecting is a website which projects players based off their NHL Equivalency (NHLe) in their respective leagues. Currently, the model gives Stramel a 9% chance of developing into a star player (scoring 0.7-plus points per game in their NHL career). That's thanks in large part to his NHLe dropping from 22 in his draft-minus-one year to 13 in his draft year.

    One just has to turn the clock back exactly 30 years to see a direct parallel to Stramel in Saku Koivu. Like Stramel, Mikko Koivu's big bro tore up junior competition as an older player in his draft-minus one season. And just like Stramel, Saku hit a wall when jumping up a level to Liiga, scoring three goals and 10 points in 46 games. In fact, Koivu went in the exact same slot Stramel did in the 1993 NHL Draft: 21st overall. 

    Even though Koivu didn't have a wildly successful regular season in Liiga, he stood out in other ways. He skated on the top line with future Selke Trophy winner Jere Lehtinen in the World Junior Championships that year, putting up a goal and nine points. Koivu also stepped up his game in Liiga's playoffs (something Stramel didn't have a shot at) with five points in 11 games.

    Koivu built on that success over the next two years. He was fourth in Liiga with 53 points in 47 games the following season, then posted a league-leading 73 points in 1994-95. After that, he jumped to the NHL and enjoyed a long career as a clear-cut top-six center.

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    What would Stramel have to do to get on Koivu's trajectory? Koivu's NHLe in his draft-plus-one season was about 46 points. To match that in the NCAA, Stramel would have to score something comparable to what Jimmy Snuggerud did last year. Snuggerud scored 50 points in 40 games for the Gophers, which rates to an NHLe of around 44. Obviously, that's elite production (ranked fifth in the country) and Snuggerud did that alongside elite center prospect Logan Cooley.

    It's a tall order to approximate that production. But if Stramel bounces back with this type of year, you can safely bet the Wild have hit it big. And you probably won't need to double-check with Hockey Wilderness to feel good about that projection.

    You can rightly point out that Koivu developed 30 years ago, which means it might not be as relevant to today. The landscape of hockey is vastly different at the junior level. Are there more recent examples of a player with a Stramel-type draft year breaking out?

    It's time to meet the Wild's most recent playoff tormenter: Roope Hintz.

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    Today we know Hintz as a lethal combination of size and speed for the Dallas Stars. He's coming off back-to-back 37-goal, 70-plus-point seasons. That wasn't always the case, though. Hintz didn't fall off quite as hard as Stramel did in his draft year. But he, too, went from strong production in junior hockey to regressing at the jump to Liiga. He played 42 games for Ilves, with just five goals and 17 points in 42 games. Sounds familiar?

    But the big center had tools, if he could just put them together, and those tools got Dallas to pick him in the second-round in a loaded 2015 draft class. He didn't put those tools together, though. Not right away, and not really after a while. His draft-plus-one season in Liiga saw him net a respectable 20 points in 33 games, followed by 30 points (19 of them goals) in 44 games the following year. Then he made the jump to North America... but to the AHL, where he only put up 35 points in 70 games as a rookie.

    When Dallas promoted Hintz four years after they drafted him, he also started slowly. In his first 118 games, he scored at a 19-goal, 38-point pace per 82 games. Not bad, but not the Hintz we know and fear today. 

    It wasn't until his age-24 season where Hintz started breaking out fully. In the 56-game bubble season, Hintz teamed up with Jason Robertson and Joe Pavelski, and the trio took off. Since then, Hintz has 89 goals and 190 points in 194 games. That's 38 goals and 80 points per 82 games, which is fantastic.

    What's kind of interesting, particularly for Stramel, is that Hintz could be considered the "third guy" on that line. It sounds ridiculous to say for Wild fans who witnessed him torching Minnesota for five goals and 12 points in their six-game series, but it's hard to argue against. 

    Robertson has more goals than Hintz over the past three years (104), with Pavelski not being far behind (80). Robertson and Pavelski exceed Hintz' point total in that time (233 and 209, repsectively). And the cherry on top is that Pavelski is sixth in the NHL with 19.1 Standings Points Above Replacement (SPAR) in the past three years, while Robertson is 13th with 17.1. Hintz is "only" 16th, with 16.2.

    We can carry two things forward with us concerning Stramel when it comes to Hintz' glow-up. The first is: success might not mean immediate success. There was never a point where you could look at Hintz' statistical profile and say Yeah, that dude's going to be a star. It took time for Hintz to find his footing and put his tools together. But he's smart, big, and fast, and that tends to play in the NHL.

    The second thing we can take with us in Hintz' case is: If Stramel ends up a complimentary player, so what? We can argue that Hintz is that for Robertson and Pavelski, being the speedy puck-carrier to the slower but skilled net-front terrors that are that duo. It doesn't mean Hintz isn't a fantastic player, or that he can't put up crazy-good numbers. Stramel might be able to be part of a great line, even if he might not be the one 100% driving it.

    But perhaps the most interesting parallel to Stramel is Mikael Backlund, the long-time Calgary Flames center.

    Let's face it: The Wild might well have a Koivu or Hintz on their hands in Stramel, but that is very close to the best-case scenario. Stramel doesn't have to become that to be a great pickup at 21st overall, though. The in-house comparison to Stramel is Joel Eriksson Ek, another big center who many thought had limited upside at the time of their draft. But Eriksson Ek showed progression in his draft season, while Backlund had a draft year even tougher than Stramel's.

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    Koivu and Hintz made the jump from junior hockey to the highest league in their country. That wasn't the case with Backlund, who dominated junior hockey in his draft-minus-one season, only to fall on his face when promoted to Allsvenskan (Sweden's AHL, essentially) the following year. In just 18 games, Backlund scored a goal and three points. A strong showing at the Under-18 World Junior Championships (six goals, seven points in six games) convinced the Flames to draft him at 24th overall in 2007. 

    Like Hintz, Backlund took a quiet path to the NHL, without the massive leaps we saw from Koivu. He never tore up Swedish hockey, and he didn't take the AHL by storm. Even in the NHL, he didn't crack 30 points until he turned 24, and didn't surpass 40 until his age-26 season. He never really became a scorer at all, to be honest. He has three 20-goal seasons and just two 50-point campaigns under his belt, with a career-high 56 last season.

    But ask the Flames if they'd take back the pick and choose someone else at 24th overall, and they'd probably laugh you out of the room. Backlund's spent over a decade as one of the better two-way centers in the league, fetching the Flames 2.0 SPAR or more in eight of his 12 seasons. For quite a while, he was a valid candidate in the Most Underrated Player discussion.

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    When we talk prospects, we like to dream about the ultimate best-case scenario. Imagining Stramel exploding into a Hintz-type player is fun, and it is in the realm of possibility. But the best-case scenario doesn't happen often, much less all the time. If we're thinking about good, but more tempered scenarios, Backlund might be a solid goal for the Wild to strive for. A two-way, top-six center that can play well with stars, and contribute all over the ice. That's a damn good player to get with your first-rounder.

    Success might come fast for Stramel, and it might not. It may never even arrive at all. But we've seen through multiple players overcoming tough draft seasons is absolutely possible, and that there's more than one way for this pick to turn out to be a hit. 

    All NHL stats via Evolving Hockey. All prospect stats via EliteProspects.

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    Honestly, unless Rossi doesn't turn into the top-6 C we are hoping for, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Stramel being our 3rd line C for the future. If that's his floor, that's perfect. 

    If he's top-6 quality but forced on the 3rd line, that's even better for us in terms of matchups! 

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    Tony, I really like the comparisons and explanations here. Hintz is big, but I think Stramel tops out about 15-20 lbs. heavier. There were 2 players that I had compared Stramel to right after the draft, and was adamant about getting 2 of these type players: Ryan Getzlaf and Ryan Kesler.

    My thought on Stramel was he would be like 1 of these 2 players. If you'd indulge me, what did Getzlaf and Kesler look like in comparison? I do believe that Stramel has a certain meanness characteristic on the ice that these 2 players also brought to their game. While Hintz is large, I don't see that same trait in him. The Koivu's had their own brand of meanness, most referred to as Angry Mikko. 

    But, to answer the question put forth in the title, I think that a successful path for Stramel looks like 2 more solid years at WI, and then a jump to the big Wild at the end of the season, kind of like Faber. I'm not putting a huge points number on his back this next year, simply because I don't believe that WI has the complimentary players yet to get a realistic look at his potential. Perhaps that happens for him in '24. 

    However, I do think that his puck skills and strength will improve drastically, and his skating will be much smoother. Playing in Hasting's structure will help him immensely get ready for the Wild. I know Hasting's is bringing a few players with him, and his staff. Does anyone know if they've got some good offensive recruits?

    I'd also like to see Stramel make the Jr. Championships, and see what he can do there. He played college essentially underaged. That's a big jump, specifically physically for a kid. I just think he'll look like a completely different player this season. 

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    I wasn't able to follow Mankato much this year so my info is pretty scant. Reading articles from reporters who covered Mankato has me believing that Hastings cherry picked the Mavs and has really upgraded UW's roster. Stramel will have much better players around him and the structure to succeed. We could see a huge improvement. If he turns into a clone of any of the guys Tony wrote about the team should be ecstatic. 

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    I'm somewhat interested in all the speculation and comparisons, but bottom line, Stramel is his own man and his destiny is his own. All the talking heads that label these young kids and give their opinions, labels and future projections change daily, monthly, yearly, based on the kid's last skate.

    Clean slate for me with Stramel. He's got the size, abilities, and drive to play with the best and has shown it at every level but his first year with a bad team, limited coaching and entering college as a seventeen year old young man coming after the loss of his father.

    Mike Hastings is the key. I'm hoping he's up to the transition of the Big 10. He's built the Maverick program with skaters with something to prove and kids who were snubbed by big programs. Hasting's rosters have been mostly composed of men 23-26 years of age. His challenge now will be to develop first picks who are 17-18-19 wanting to play on the college big stage. This is not something he has worked with before as a full roster. With the talent, sometimes comes the difficulties and now the "out", the transfer portal. It's a new game for today's coaches. I believe this is as much of a prove it year for Hastings as it is for Stramel. I hope it doesn't come at Stramel's expense with the Big10 learning curve for Hastings.

    I have confidence in Stramel and the Wild's system. We have a "young stud" with all the tools. I'm willing to wait for his development as he progresses to the big club. If we've learned anything so far from the Wild's strategies, its "no rush". We have time to savor and take in the scenery. 

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    1 hour ago, Up North Guy said:

    Reading articles from reporters who covered Mankato has me believing that Hastings cherry picked the Mavs and has really upgraded UW's roster

    I see a Milwaukee journal article that indicates they added some talent.

    Quote

    Wisconsin hockey bolsters offense with addition of Christian Fitzgerald, Simon Tassy

    Fitzgerald was tied for 3rd in scoring for MSU-Mankato, with the only guys near him at age 23+.  He was absolutely a key addition.

    Quote

    Tassy (6-2, 190) missed the first half of the last season as he recovered from a knee injury. He played 15 games and recorded one goal and four assists for Minnesota State. At the junior level, he was the BCHL most valuable player in 2022 and the BCHL Vernon Pod MVP in 2021.

    Hastings called Tassy “a power forward who has shown to be a goal scorer at every level he has played."

    Tassy had 5 points(1 goal) in his 15 games, but could be a different player being fully recovered from the knee injury this season. Those two could help quite a bit.

    Looks like 3 of their top 4 scoring forwards from last season for WI are eligible to return, so adding those 2 guys could make a huge difference, particularly if Stramel takes a big step forward in year 2.

    Their top defenseman(Corson Ceulemans) moved along to the AHL, so the team may struggle on D, but I imagine they will able to put some goals on the board with those top 6 forwards. The did add a 21 year old Swedish goalie who posted a .920 save percentage in the North American Hockey League(US Junior A) last year.

    They have some incoming offensive talent that hasn't played with them yet as well:

    Quinn Finley is a 3rd round pick of the NY Islanders, who posted 42 points in 38 games with the USHL's Chicago Steel in 22-23.

    William Whitelaw when 3rd round in 2023 after putting up 61 points in 62 games with the USHL's Youngstown Phantoms.

    Aiden Fink is a 7th rounder for Nashville who put up 97 points in 54 games with the AJHL's Brooks Bandits in 22-23.

    Owen Mehlenbacher was a 2022 7th rounder for the Red Wings who posted 26 points in 26 games with the USHL's Fargo Force in 22-23.

    I'm sure every team is adding some talent like this, but perhaps they get some higher end production from these guys who were already committed while Granato was still the coach...the leadership change may go a long way.

    If Stramel struggles in year 2 with Wisconsin, this pick won't look too good, but I thought the article did a nice job of supporting the need for a player like Stramel and the patience needed for a payoff that may eventually arrive.

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    I think it is noteworthy, had Stramel played with the USNTDP last season his numbers would have been much different. His place amongst the guys like Smith, Moore, Perreault, etc. would likely alter opinions about the 21st overall pick.

    The biggest thing about Stramel is his size and athleticism. He could come up the the NHL and not get bullied or abused. Much sooner than other prospects who would need more time to develop strength. I would think it depends how quickly he shows the pace for NHL hockey.

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    Is Stramel going to be the next Roope Hintz or the next Nick Bjugstad?  Surprising no comparison was made to the latter, but I know what it was supposed to be an uplifting article.  The comparables to Bjugstad are pretty apparent.  

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    Bjugstad was on a nice trajectory in FL but had some injuries that kinda derailed his trajectory. If I recall, he spent a year trying to deal with back issues before having surgery similar to Parise.

    The Wild's 4th line was pretty effective when Bonino, Sturm, and Bjugstad were together or combined with some other 4th guy. That was always sort of a head-scratcher when Guerin let Bjugstad walk cause he isn't too expensive. It may very well have had to do with injuries or expectation of injury.

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    17 hours ago, Protec said:

    Bjugstad was on a nice trajectory in FL but had some injuries that kinda derailed his trajectory. If I recall, he spent a year trying to deal with back issues before having surgery similar to Parise.

    The Wild's 4th line was pretty effective when Bonino, Sturm, and Bjugstad were together or combined with some other 4th guy. That was always sort of a head-scratcher when Guerin let Bjugstad walk cause he isn't too expensive. It may very well have had to do with injuries or expectation of injury.

    IIRC, Bjugstad had some head injuries that hurt him. They weren't all concussion oriented, in FL he had some sort of allergies that gave him migraines I think. It took the team quite awhile to figure out what was going on. Honestly, it kind of reminds one of the lost year Rossi had. He's been playing catch up ever since. 

    It's almost like we should consider Rossi a draftee of the 2021 draft than 2020 based upon ability to develop, and even then, that may be kind. Maybe even considering him a 2022 might be more realistic. 1 year off, 1 year to build back up, 1 year to develop higher? Of course in 2020-21, everyone's development went haywire. Some will fizzle out, probably more than usual and some will make it out of the later rounds, also, probably more than usual. My hope is that Judd was able to find the guys who will make it, regardless of the round, for the last 3 drafts.

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    On 7/19/2023 at 11:56 AM, B1GKappa97 said:

    If that's his floor, that's perfect. 

    I’m afraid that it’s going to be his ceiling though, not his floor as a 3rd/4th line Center.

    that’s kind of what he is projected as and that’s why it was a bit of a reach because there were players who had a lot higher ceiling.

    if he can be a wrecking ball C on the 3rd line who’s defensively responsible, physical and puts up a little offense then I’d be ok with it.

    This article further backs up the notion that Rossi needs to be given ample amount of time to develop.

     

     

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    On 7/22/2023 at 1:12 AM, Mateo3xm said:

    I’m afraid that it’s going to be his ceiling though, not his floor as a 3rd/4th line Center.

    that’s kind of what he is projected as and that’s why it was a bit of a reach because there were players who had a lot higher ceiling.

    if he can be a wrecking ball C on the 3rd line who’s defensively responsible, physical and puts up a little offense then I’d be ok with it.

    This article further backs up the notion that Rossi needs to be given ample amount of time to develop.

    #1Cs come in many shapes and sizes, with different components and circumstances that make them #1s. Mateo, what is your definition of a #1C that can/could compliment a line with Kaprizov and either Yurov or Boldy on the other wing? What would be the most important elements needed for those guys to succeed? 

    I would suggest that a large body with strength and net front presence would be some attributes that I'd like to see. I'd like to see them strong defensively and able to get that pass up to the wings for them to perform their magic. I'd like them to be willing to make some open ice hits that frees up the wings and turns pucks over. I think good finishing ability might be more important than good playmaking ability, due to our projected wings. But, some skill would need to be available. 

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    The Wild have Ek has a top 6 center already, so that means either Rossi or Stramel will get the role of 3C by default. I don't know if Rossi will still be here when Stramel arrives, but given that Rossi was a top 10 pick, I think Stramel might get the 3C job.

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    22 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

    The Wild have Ek has a top 6 center already, so that means either Rossi or Stramel will get the role of 3C by default. I don't know if Rossi will still be here when Stramel arrives, but given that Rossi was a top 10 pick, I think Stramel might get the 3C job.

    I think at that point draft position will have very little or even any influence. Rossi will have 2-3 years of NHL experience and will have established his career or maybe not and is gone.

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    On 7/20/2023 at 2:26 PM, Outskated said:

    Is Stramel going to be the next Roope Hintz or the next Nick Bjugstad?  Surprising no comparison was made to the latter, but I know what it was supposed to be an uplifting article.  The comparables to Bjugstad are pretty apparent.  

    I doubt Hintz at this point, but I'd take a Bjugstad comparison size wise? Anything else, other than size, is not comparable. This kid has some edge to him. I've seen Nick get physical and bang some bodies, but that's about it.

    Stramel's skating may not be at Bjugstad level yet, but I would say he has hands down better stick work and net front presence. He lives for the physical side of the game. He's man strong already and hasn't even grown into his body yet. His upside puts him in the comparison of Bjugstad  in the fact they both are from Minnesota and that's about it.

    Pull up some Big10 Hockey this year, I'm guessing you'll see his PIM up this year as they are trying to remove that from the game to protect the elites which are many in the Big10 between Minnesota, Michigan, Notre Dame and Penn State.

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    On 7/22/2023 at 12:12 AM, Mateo3xm said:

    I’m afraid that it’s going to be his ceiling though, not his floor as a 3rd/4th line Center.

    that’s kind of what he is projected as and that’s why it was a bit of a reach because there were players who had a lot higher ceiling.

    if he can be a wrecking ball C on the 3rd line who’s defensively responsible, physical and puts up a little offense then I’d be ok with it.

    This article further backs up the notion that Rossi needs to be given ample amount of time to develop.

     

     

    Think bigger, we have two more years!

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    I dont really know all the technicalities of what a center does except take faceoffs , i  get that  but everyones flying around the place so im guessing maybe screen the goalie maybe create legal interfearence opening up lanes ,  it gets confusing when you watch teams and the center is the most skilled, he carries the puck drives the play,  Mcdavids ,Toews ,Mathews etc  then you watch other teams or lines  the winger is more skilled than the center so he carries the puck drives the play , Kaprizov , Kanes , Stone , maybe Tuch  .  

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    Systems-wise the center is generally like a 3rd defenseman. In the d-zone his coverage is down low generally speaking hence the 200' game we always hear about.

    The center is more involved with initiating a breakout and defending around the net. That's why they're viewed as being so critical to a team's success. When you have a good one who can do both jobs well, you're getting a positive differential that makes centers so valuable.

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    Bergeron for example, who's a perennial Selke candidate. Almost a point per game and has an average +/- over ~1200 NHL games of +20. 

    He's considered pretty old but just had nearly 60pts in 78 games +35. Only one season his whole career with a negative +/-. Ek is looking more and more like he'll be that kind of player. He is now, but can he do it 8-10 more years like Bergeron.

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