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  • What Do Other Goalie Arbitration Cases This Year Mean For Gustavsson and the Wild?


    Image courtesy of © Stephen R. Sylvanie-USA TODAY Sports
    Luke Sims

     

    Minnesota Wild fans are probably tired of not having their starting goalie under contract for next season. Many people, including management and Filip Gustavsson, probably hoped they could put pen to paper by now. Arbitration is not uncommon. Many players file and work something out before it. Brandon Duhaime did. 

    The Wild must pinch pennies to get Gustavsson under the salary cap. Minnesota only has $5.39 million remaining to sign Gustavsson and Calen Addison, a restricted free agent, assuming Brock Faber and Marco Rossi make the team. August 4th is the day of Gustavsson’s arbitration hearing. The Wild and Gustavsson have until then to decide. 

    Multiple young goalies have arbitration hearings this offseason, which will set the market for Gustavsson.

    Ilya Samsonov played 42 games for the Toronto Maple Leafs and recorded some impressive numbers. He had a 2.33 goals against average (GAA) and a .919 save percentage. Those are solid numbers for him as somewhat of a reclamation project with Toronto after his rocky tenure (.913 SV% in 2019-20 to .896 in 2021-22) with the Washington Capitals. The Maple Leafs reportedly have a $2.4 million offer. Samsonov, 26, has other ideas for his next contract. He’s at $4.9 million. If Samsonov signs for anything in the $3.5-4 million range, that could spell trouble for Gustavsson and the Wild. 

    Jeremy Swayman is another name to watch out for. The 24-year-old goalie filed for arbitration, and the Boston Bruins may have a difficult time signing him with their cap squeeze. The hearing for the Bruins goalie is on July 30th, roughly a week before Gustavsson’s. There aren’t reporters on the numbers Swayman wants and what the Bruins want to pay him yet. However, they are likely to be similar to Gustavsson's, if not higher, because Swayman has been playing at a higher level for longer.

    There are a handful of other young goalies who have inked contracts recently. The Wild got to see one of them firsthand in the playoffs. Jake Oettinger signed a three-year, $12 million deal at the start of last season. It was a bit of a bridge deal for a 24-year-old player who’s worth much more than that to the Dallas Stars. However, the Lakeville native’s lack of experience (77 starts) likely got that AAV down to just $4 million per season. 

    Thatcher Demko, 27, signed with the Vancouver Canucks for $5 million per season. He has a bit more experience than Otteinger and Gus, but his level of play is comparable (9.15 SV% in 2022). (Not so much last season, but blame Vancouver, and it’s 47.0 Corsi For % for that, not him.) 

    Oettinger and Demko are somewhat comparable to Gus, and they received $4-5 million paydays. 

    Other goalies have received bigger extensions in the offseason. Ilya Sorokin signed an eight-year deal with the New York Islanders for $8.25 million annually. Granted, he’s one of the best goalies in the league and has been putting up elite numbers since debuting three seasons ago (2.33 GAA & 2.24 SV%). He’s in a different situation than Gustavsson, but his contract illustrates the high end of the market.

    Gustavsson’s lack of experience will help the Wild in contract negotiations. While he was terrific last year, he only played 39 games and has 66 total. That will make NHL teams cautious of his longevity or ability to repeat his performance. 

    More than likely, Addison will accept his one-year, $787,000 qualifying offer. That would leave the Wild with about $4.6 million to sign Gustavsson. Minnesota will want a little wiggle room in the cap for in-season transactions like call-ups and in case of injuries. 

    Gustavsson could reasonably ask for $4 million. Minnesota probably has his number somewhere in the $3 million range. If Gus is asking for more than the Wild have to give, they may have to trade him to a team that can afford him. 

    What are the options for the Wild if Gustavsson is indeed too expensive? Prized prospect Jesper Wallstedt is still too raw to play in the NHL, and it’s counterproductive to rush goalies. They could scrape the bottom of the barrel for the leftover free-agent goalies that don’t have a home yet. 

    Jaroslav Halak is an interesting name. In his 20-year career, he has only one season where his save percentage was under .900 – and that was .899 with the St. Louis Blues in 2012-2013. Those are some pretty remarkable stats, but he is 38 years old. Having a pair of 38-year-olds as your goalie tandem is pretty risky. 

    Minnesota’s other options are aging goalies. Anton Khudobin, 37, for example. He guided the Stars to a Stanley Cup Final not too long ago during the 2020 season. He could return to the team that drafted over 15 years ago. Alex Stalock, 35, may want to run it back for another stint in St. Paul. Martin Jones is as inconsistent as ever (48 games played and a .887 SV%). I’m sure he’d be willing to don the mask and block a few pucks here and there. Mike Smith is 41 years old. Adding him would mean the Wild could have a goalie tandem with a combined age of almost 80! That would be fun, right… right? 

    The point is that the Wild don’t have many other great options. The value they’d get from trading Gustavsson is bound to be less than the value they’d get by re-signing him. Now, the deal will probably get done, and the Wild won’t have to scramble to fix their goalie situation. It just feels like it should have been done by now. Somewhere in the low $3 million range seems like a reasonable deal for Gustavsson and the Wild. 

    If Gus wants more and the case goes to arbitration, and he’s awarded more, the Wild may have no choice but to search for other options. As I said, it will most likely get resolved, and they have time before the hearing. But if it doesn’t, you and I don’t want to find out what the contingency plan is. 

    All stats and data via HockeyDB, Evolving Hockey, and CapFriendly unless otherwise noted.

     

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    I believe the Samsonov contract will have a large impact on what happens with Gustavsson. Notice how the Wild haven't even done anything yet with Addison. Does that mean if Gustavsson goes higher, he won't be retained? At close to minimum, I don't think you can find anything cheaper than Addison's QO. 

    Samsonov isn't going to get $4.9m, and that's a vast difference, about double what Toronto offered. Perhaps Goose2 waits on Swayman's deal which also, likely, waits on the Samsonov decision. 

    I think it would be in the Wild's best interest to sign Goose2 for at least 2 seasons, instead of 1. Sorokin's deal is simple outside of reality. Maybe in a couple of seasons of similar performance could Goose2 get that, but certainly not in the next 2 seasons. 

    Samsonov's hearing is going on right now as I type. We shall see what happens and who blinks first. 

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    This is a very tough negotiation for the Wild.  We have a goalie that played outstanding for most of the season.  He even started the playoffs extremely well but faded a tiny bit in the end.  His prior years experience are not as rosy and he is playing for a very goalie friendly team.  When you review the team  goalie friendly environment along with his history and limited number of games... IMO: his salary should not exceed $2M AAV.   Anything over and I would take a chance on a different goalie...Especially with our intention to hand the reigns over to the Wall in a year or 2.

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    "IBGIT"- In Billy Guerin I Trust

    No on every heard of Gus before this past year other than when his name was called during the draft. He was on the "Island of Misfit Toys" in Ottawa! He was known for losing it before the games, getting sick and getting the "shakes"

    He did us right here when our "D" was lacking, but our "D" also did him right when they were on. Different story on the island where he had no "D". Please Gus remember where you came from?

    We're not paying you $4 million. PROVE IT and you will be rewarded with loyalty. You can look at our roster and see our loyalty contracts with Goose and his last two contracts and the fact he's still here in our salary crunch. "The Wall" looks promising, but he could use some seasoning in the AHL and NHL, that's 4-5 years of 1A-1B, everyone is happy and you'll get your salary as he grows into a bigger payday. "The Wall" is no guarantee!

    I trust BG and his staff. I know they have their sites set on another GUS we don't know about if this doesn't work out. So be careful what you ask for in arbitration and get. What you know here and your new love could be gone! Moving on.

    I'm for everyone getting paid, but this has dragged on too long."

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    I can see around $3MM for Gus, for either one or two years--although I think one year is more likely.  Next year, MAF retires and Gus2 takes over his $3.5MM, maybe plus a bit with an overall cap increase.  We then have Gus2 and the Wall in goal for <$5MM total, possibly for a number of years...

    Similarly, I think BG is planning (hoping) that Duhaime develops to the point he can replace Foligno at a cost somewhere between their $1.1MM and $3.1MM salaries next year. 

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    The verdict is in for Samsonov, 1 yr. at $3.55m. According to my math, that sided a little bit towards the Maple Leaf's numbers. Samsonov had an extra year of starting experience ahead of Goose2, and it looks like he's 1+ years older than our goalie. 

    I would have to say that it's a pretty fair comparable, and I'd expect Goose2 to slot in somewhere around 2 X $3.2m if that's the comparable. I'd be looking at '23=$3m, '24=$3.4m. It's a bit on the higher side for me, as I believe he should be slotted somewhere <$2m this coming year on a 1-way deal. That's usually the progression since he really was a rookie last season. 

    Does Shooter ink him this week, or wait on Swayman? Does Goose2 have to swallow some pride? I think the ball may be in Gustavsson's agent's court right now.

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    15 hours ago, Dango said:

    What do we do if we cant sign both RFAs  , I know the Wild like to keep 1-1.5 in available cap space as well ,  

    I don't think we're in any danger of that happening. A quick look at capfriendly shows us with 19/23 spots filled, and just under $5.4m left. If Goose2 comes in at $3.2m aav, that leaves just under $2.2m left. From the looks of things, Addison is signing for the $787k QO, which would leave us at about $1.5m. 

    That's just about where you want to be.

    But, to answer your question directly, I think it is telling how the Wild went about this business. With Goose2 and Duey filing for arbitration, Shooter prioritized their signings. Addison simply has to wait until those deals are done. That means that Addison is low man in priority, and doesn't have arbitration rights and really has no leverage at all. But, if he were to demand more, he would likely be quickly shipped off, Faber moves into the top 4 category and we sign a cheap vet defender, hopefully with some size, for league minimum. 

    The way I could see that playing out is having a couple of PTO 3rd pairing defenders in camp competing against Hunt and O'Rourke for the final spot. Goligoski could slide over to the right side if need be. So, I would assume that the 2 PTO guys would be RHS players with a bit of sandpaper to their game. Luke Schenn types. Perhaps we even convince Braun to come out of retirement for one more go, since he'd be at home for half the year?  

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    On 7/23/2023 at 3:32 PM, mnfaninnc said:

    The verdict is in for Samsonov, 1 yr. at $3.55m. According to my math, that sided a little bit towards the Maple Leaf's numbers. Samsonov had an extra year of starting experience ahead of Goose2, and it looks like he's 1+ years older than our goalie. 

    I would have to say that it's a pretty fair comparable, and I'd expect Goose2 to slot in somewhere around 2 X $3.2m if that's the comparable. I'd be looking at '23=$3m, '24=$3.4m. It's a bit on the higher side for me, as I believe he should be slotted somewhere <$2m this coming year on a 1-way deal. That's usually the progression since he really was a rookie last season. 

    Does Shooter ink him this week, or wait on Swayman? Does Goose2 have to swallow some pride? I think the ball may be in Gustavsson's agent's court right now.

    I feel GUS needs to sign before arbitration or it will spin out of control if it goes that far. I don't get the impression that he is in control of his agent and a few $100,000 more is not gonna really set him up any better.

    Is he worried he cant beat out Wallsted in a year and he's just getting as much as he can and gonna move on. I know team mates say they are supportive of each player getting their money, but this team has several examples of players being reasonable and happy with their team situation knowing it isn't always greener when there's more "green" somewhere else.

    Ya gotta be happy with where you are and that also has to factor in, a place to raise your family, a great locker room. This could be a Talbot situation real soon.

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    4 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

    Is he worried he cant beat out Wallsted in a year and he's just getting as much as he can and gonna move on. I know team mates say they are supportive of each player getting their money, but this team has several examples of players being reasonable and happy with their their situation knowing it isn't always greener when there's more "green" somewhere else.

    Ya gotta be happy with where you are and that also has to factor in, a place to raise your family, a great locker room. This could be a Talbot situation real soon.

    I don't think you have to worry about this:

    1. Gustavsson is a Swede, they think differently
    2. Gustavsson grew up in the same program as The Wall, they will be happy to be teammates
    3. Talbot had a chip on his shoulder and was certain he should be the starter. Goose2 does not.
    4. He may want to wait for Swayman's deal to make sure, but it looks like the market is set.
    5. He may not even be in the country right now. 
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    1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I don't think you have to worry about this:

    1. Gustavsson is a Swede, they think differently
    2. Gustavsson grew up in the same program as The Wall, they will be happy to be teammates
    3. Talbot had a chip on his shoulder and was certain he should be the starter. Goose2 does not.
    4. He may want to wait for Swayman's deal to make sure, but it looks like the market is set.
    5. He may not even be in the country right now. 

    If this is the case he could have made a statement today by signing a deal.

    I could see BG rolling the dice now and paying whatever the arbitrator comes up with (Also using Swayman's deal) so they can get their two year deal guaranteeing Wallsted another AHL year. They have the cap space to go two years with Gus and it would be an easy Swede connection.  Wallsted basically replaced Gus when Gus was drafted out of Sweden by Ottawa. Also gives the Wall a few test call ups if the Flower goes south sitting on the bench so many games.

    That would be an ideal situation giving us a 1A-1B set up for the following year in '24-25..

     

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    14 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

    If this is the case he could have made a statement today by signing a deal.

    While the fans love to be in the know on all this stuff, Shooter tends to keep this sort of thing private. Perhaps there is a basic parameter of the contract already in place, but it's not a done deal until it's signed. 

    If I were Gustavsson and still in Sweden for another week, I wouldn't worry too much about it until returning to the States next week. He'd need to be there for the arbitration hearing. They could have an oral agreement already, but it's not official until signed. Perhaps some small details still need to be worked out? 

    The key is that this will get done, and it should be in the $3.2m neighborhood (which I again believe is too high). The thing we definitely know is that we do not have room for a Dumba reunion. 

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    5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    The thing we definitely know is that we do not have room for a Dumba reunion. 

    Addition by subtraction IMO.  There is a reason he is still a FA and wasn't traded last season.

    Also, I have no prob overpaying Gus a little.  I don't want the option of bringing in rental vets and would rather be forced to give the youth the opportunity.

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    7 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

    Addition by subtraction IMO.  There is a reason he is still a FA and wasn't traded last season.

    Also, I have no prob overpaying Gus a little.  I don't want the option of bringing in rental vets and would rather be forced to give the youth the opportunity.

    I think Dumba's problem is that money is limited because the cap did not go up much. Also, all the GM's know that Dumba's game is good but not star rated anymore. His offense disappeared after the injury. His defense improved some last year (2nd half) but by how much? He also may be waiting until Karlsson's situation is settled.

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    18 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    While the fans love to be in the know on all this stuff, Shooter tends to keep this sort of thing private. Perhaps there is a basic parameter of the contract already in place, but it's not a done deal until it's signed. 

    If I were Gustavsson and still in Sweden for another week, I wouldn't worry too much about it until returning to the States next week. He'd need to be there for the arbitration hearing. They could have an oral agreement already, but it's not official until signed. Perhaps some small details still need to be worked out? 

    The key is that this will get done, and it should be in the $3.2m neighborhood (which I again believe is too high). The thing we definitely know is that we do not have room for a Dumba reunion. 

    If its 3.2 for two years I would be overjoyed. My hunch is he's asking for well over 4 which is why this is dragging out. We paid Talbot 3.6 and Flower 3.5 for the backside of their careers.

    I still cant figure why everyone thinks we need/want Dumba back, but they'll line up with their hearts to get it done. I say addition by subtraction. He's not the Dumba of early years on or off the ice. Let's move on already!

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    7 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

    I think Dumba's problem is that money is limited because the cap did not go up much. Also, all the GM's know that Dumba's game is good but not star rated anymore. His offense disappeared after the injury. His defense improved some last year (2nd half) but by how much? He also may be waiting until Karlsson's situation is settled.

    I agree, he strangely had some sort of epiphany on defense last season, but even then not even close to 6M.  I would say he is worth 2M as a good third pair option.  He plays tough.  We will miss that for sure.  

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    18 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

    I agree, he strangely had some sort of epiphany on defense last season, but even then not even close to 6M.  I would say he is worth 2M as a good third pair option.  He plays tough.  We will miss that for sure.  

    I ten to think he is worth more than that. I would say 3-3.5 and most likely 2nd pair. Length of contract is a huge factor for guys in situations like Dumba.

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    20 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

    I ten to think he is worth more than that. I would say 3-3.5 and most likely 2nd pair. Length of contract is a huge factor for guys in situations like Dumba.

    He really needs to sign a 1 year low deal somewhere with no trade protection, and hope his season is better for a nice cap increase in '24. I don't even think we could fit him in for $1m, but playing out another season here would be in his best interest, maybe not ours. 

    Why? He knows this system very well. He has chemistry with Brodin. He knows the locker room. 

    But here's an interesting question: If we did sign him for 1 year $1m, would we be able to move Merrill and his $1.2m deal? That could definitely help out our situation, as, that would allow for one of the kids to take a spot next year. But, we wouldn't have to do it, we could stash Faber in Iowa with no waivers and bring him up when there are injuries.

    Also, having a hungry Faber ready to take a spot, could that serve as motivation for Addison to defend better? I could see a lineup where Faber plays right side and Addison plays left side. I do wonder if Brodin could help cure Addison's defending issues. I also wonder where Goligoski fits in on all of this?

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    An Addison - Faber pairing is interesting. You might think two opposite types of player might equalize for a perfect combination pairing? I would like that and don't strain to imagine it.

    Can Addison defend down low and around the net in the D zone though?

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