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  • The Wild Created A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy With Marco Rossi


    Image courtesy of Stephen R. Sylvanie - Imagn Images
    Tony Abbott

    Somehow, the biggest lightning rod in the Minnesota Wild's abbreviated playoff run was the player with the team's third-fewest minutes. But that's what fans will focus on when a team takes Marco Rossi, their second-leading scorer in the regular season, and plays him for 11 minutes and 8 seconds per night.

    For context, that's less than Marat Khusnutdinov, a fourth-line center with seven points in 57 games, got during the regular season.

    Having seen the Wild's postseason play out, it's clear what happened. John Hynes (and possibly Bill Guerin, judging from some of his radio comments) decided that Rossi couldn't make an impact in a series against the Vegas Golden Knights. He started on the third line with Marcus Foligno and a clearly washed Gustav Nyquist, a role Rossi hadn't been in all season. After struggling in his playoff debut, the Wild demoted him to the fourth line with Yakov Trenin and Justin Brazeau.

    And that's where he stayed. Scoring goals in back-to-back games didn't get him out of the doghouse. Engaging physically in Game 5, where he registered three hits and three blocked shots, didn't do the trick, either. No style of play, no level of success was getting him off the fourth line. There was nothing he could do

    In doing so, the Wild doomed Rossi to their self-fulfilling prophecy. By treating him as if he couldn't make an impact, they put him in a position where he was least capable of making one. Despite the three points in six games -- a 0.50 PPG average that is, mind you, tied for 19th in franchise history, between Kevin Fiala (0.53 PPG) and Mikko Koivu (0.47) -- Minnesota got a result they can point to and back up their suspicions. 

    His detractors (including those in the Wild organization) can point to three flashpoints:

    1. Rossi being on the ice for the Game 5 overtime goal.
    2. His double minor in Game 6.
    3. And his having the worst expected goals percentage at 5-on-5 this series, as noted by The Athletic.

    Make of the errors what you'd like, I guess. Rossi was part of that Game 5 breakdown -- although there's a pretty good case that Zach Bogosian was more responsible. Even though Brayden McNabb lifted Rossi's stick into his own face in Game 6, Rossi still has to control his stick.

    But as for his expected goals percentage... what did the Wild expect?

    Out of 18 forwards with 150-plus minutes at 5-on-5 for the Wild during the regular season, Trenin was 10th in goals for percentage (44.4) and 11th in expected goals for percentage (47.5). Brazeau ranked dead last in both categories. Both players were in the bottom half of generating actual and expected goals per hour.

    That trio didn't generate offense outside of two nice passes off a Trenin forecheck. The Rossi-Trenin duo combined to get just a 28.5% share of the expected goals in their limited time on the ice. Minnesota generated expected goals at a rate of 0.99 per hour with that tandem, which is abysmal. When apart from Trenin, his expected goals share boosted up to 49.3%, and the Wild generated 2.44 expected goals per hour. 

    If you're looking for a reason why Rossi would have disappointing numbers with Trenin and Brazeau, it's not hard to figure out. There's a reason Hynes doesn't consider playing Matt Boldy or Kirill Kaprizov on the fourth line for an entire playoff series.

    Maybe you're thinking something like, Look, a player isn't entitled to a spot in the lineup because they scored 60 points in the regular season. This is professional sports. It's not about fairness or being a hard-working kid with a good attitude who does everything the team asks of him. It's about results.

    And, hey, maybe that's right. So let's take a look at Rossi's results.

    In 66:47 of all-situations time, Rossi scored three points. Mind you, only 3:30 of that was on the power play, less time than the likes of Nyquist and Marcus Johansson. Despite being a power play afterthought, he put up 2.70 points per hour during his ice time.

    For fun, here's a list of Wild players who Rossi's career points per hour rate beats out:

    Zach Parise, 2.66 points per hour
    Kirill Kaprizov, 2.40 points per hour
    Marian Gaborik, 2.36 points per hour
    Ryan Hartman, 2.30 points per hour
    Jason Pominville, 2.28 points per hour
    Wes Walz, 2.26 points per hour
    Brian Rolston, 2.03 points per hour
    Kevin Fiala, 1.89 points per hour
    Pavol Demitra, 1.86 points per hour
    Matt Boldy, 1.86 points per hour
    Eric Staal, 1.86 points per hour
    Nino Niederreiter, 1.82 points per hour

    Small sample size, but damn, that sounds like someone Minnesota should've put on the ice if they wanted not to lose three games by a goal each.

    Only Hynes didn't do that. It's one thing for a coach to bury his team's second-leading scorer on the fourth line and win the series. They can claim they pushed the right buttons, and scoreboard. Who's gonna argue? But when they lose a series of one-goal games? There are gonna be questions to answer, especially for a coach whose playoff results aren't exactly above reproach.

    It was a predictable outcome for the Wild, partly because they ensured it, both for Rossi and the series as a whole. Minnesota played Rossi on the fourth line, and now they can claim he played like a fourth liner. That makes sense. The logical conclusion for Hynes turning his third-most-potent scoring threat into a fourth-liner was the one we saw.

    The Wild offense drying up the second Kaprizov and Boldy started running out of gas.

    Don't worry -- with the increasingly inevitable Rossi trade coming up, it appears that no lessons will be learned from any of this.

    Think you could write a story like this? Hockey Wilderness wants you to develop your voice, find an audience, and we'll pay you to do it. Just fill out this form.

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    2 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Rossi's future is bright. If the Wild trade Rossi, it is because they can get a more established great player in return. Whether he can elevate to a Marchand player is a legit question, but he's already a quality player who can help teams win.

    can we stop projecting Rossi to a Marchand? i get the trend using just points, but Marchand is an anomaly! he is a pest and future Hall of Famer. how about pausing a bit and project Rossi to a Pierre Marc Bouchard/Granny/Galchenyuk type. Maybe a barzal light? but common - no stop with Marchand. 

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    5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    can we stop projecting Rossi to a Marchand?

    Well, I was only talking as far as points and career longevity. Marchand had 55 points in his age 23 NHL regular season, so still pretty even, but I'm not suggesting they have a similar game.

    I'd like Boston to be considering the comparison because that's a team I'd be interested in trading with if the Wild are looking to move Rossi.

    Daniel Briere might be comparable as well. Granlund has had a good career. Rossi has been a better goal scorer so far than him.

    Edited by Imyourhuckleberry
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    4 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    Well, I was only talking as far as points and career longevity. Marchand had 55 points in his age 23 NHL regular season, so still pretty even, but I'm not suggesting they have a similar game.

    I'd like Boston to be considering the comparison because that's a team I'd be interested in trading with if the Wild are looking to move Rossi.

    Daniel Briere might be comparable as well. Granlund has had a good career. Rossi has been a better goal scorer so far than him.

    then let's not bring Marchand into this unfair comparison. because that is doing him a great disservice. we might as well start comparing Rossi to MacKinnon too, why not if we do it solely on PPG..... how about instead a more realistic comparison that looks at more than just scoring? let's compare to Bouchard or Granlund. To drive this home for everyone about Rossi=Marchand comparison flaw - 

    Marchand's 1st NHL goal - he gives the opponent a very hard check into the boards before scoring shorty (physicality non-stop - youtube it and watch it)

    look at his fight vs Subban in 2011 - look at them go the distance and refusing to stop, not giving an inch and delivering punch for punch, is that something that Rossi could do? after this years PO? insulting to Marchand. 

     

     

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    1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

    how do i get this across to you.....we are not a day care business, we try to WIN a cup. we have the best player in the world and our window is now. we do not have time to wait and see on Rossi.

    I can't say it any other way.  I think he performed at a 2C level this year.  You do not.  You say I can't use the time he was with Kap? fine.  January, February and April, taking out the games Kap did play, 22 points in 28 games which is a 64 points pace.  You don't like how I evaluated him?  Fine.  You can believe he isn't, and I can believe he is. 

    If Kap signs, our window is now through at least 5 years from now.  To me, and many others, Rossi is at worst a 2C.  He is young, and the majority of players his age who score 60 points in a year improve year over year, with many becoming pgp players by year 25 or 26.  If he has the same output or better for the next 5 years, I think that first Kap's timeline perfectly.

    You want to keep arguing even though in my last response and others I have said I am fine trading him if it is for a definitive upgrade.  If it isn't I would rather have him on the team.  Really is that simple

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    Either Rossi was hurt or Hynes/GMBG just wanted to drive his value into the dirt. I'm really starting to sour on GMBG. For all the rhetoric and messaging about creating a culture that's conducive to winning, GMBG sure is $hitting on a kid that he drafted and that has done everything GMBG asked of him.

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    1 minute ago, SkolWild73 said:

    I can't say it any other way.  I think he performed at a 2C level this year.  You do not.  You say I can't use the time he was with Kap? fine.  January, February and April, taking out the games Kap did play, 22 points in 28 games which is a 64 points pace.  You don't like how I evaluated him?  Fine.  You can believe he isn't, and I can believe he is. 

    If Kap signs, our window is now through at least 5 years from now.  To me, and many others, Rossi is at worst a 2C.  He is young, and the majority of players his age who score 60 points in a year improve year over year, with many becoming pgp players by year 25 or 26.  If he has the same output or better for the next 5 years, I think that first Kap's timeline perfectly.

    You want to keep arguing even though in my last response and others I have said I am fine trading him if it is for a definitive upgrade.  If it isn't I would rather have him on the team.  Really is that simple

    If Kap signs, our window is now through at least 5 years from now. don't you want to protect Kap from physicality and take it to Vegas and Central Teams and not just be a one-and-done? 

    To me, and many others, Rossi is at worst a 2C.  not sure who these "many others" are but i am fairly certain the ones that matter are looking to trade him

    You want to keep arguing even though in my last response and others I have said I am fine trading him if it is for a definitive upgrade. you and the "others" again - one way or the high-way views? that pro-rossi crowd, who sees red as soon as some negative feedback is given to their precious little austrian...but life is unfair and others have opinions and can share them

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    On 5/4/2025 at 9:16 AM, OldDutchChip said:

    you comparing Rossi 60 minutes of output here.....?

    you and Matteo are really trying to help Billy and i like that. freddy - make sure to heart it! Billy is going to love showing off these "useful" stats to all the suitors. OTT hear us - Rossi is available for Tkachuk!

    but why stop there, we can also include Trenin (who i actually feel rocked this PO but for this purpose, let's do it) - as he has done better than Fiala and Boldy and Nino in that fancy stat model - giving him ~2.1 pts per hour in his time this PO! damn - not as good as wes walz - but not many people are....

    and not a biggie - 4 minute penalty to start the game was just what was needed during the most important game of the season. way to go!

    image.jpeg.5399ac4d6141cb0629dab8e687e1e24c.jpeg

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    On 5/4/2025 at 11:12 AM, Burnt Toast said:

    Wouldn’t management have wanted to inflate his value if a trade is in the future? Very strange dynamic/vibe coming from the team on Rossi.

    That's zactly what I can't figure out.

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    1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

    If Kap signs, our window is now through at least 5 years from now. don't you want to protect Kap from physicality and take it to Vegas and Central Teams and not just be a one-and-done? 

    To me, and many others, Rossi is at worst a 2C.  not sure who these "many others" are but i am fairly certain the ones that matter are looking to trade him

    You want to keep arguing even though in my last response and others I have said I am fine trading him if it is for a definitive upgrade. you and the "others" again - one way or the high-way views? that pro-rossi crowd, who sees red as soon as some negative feedback is given to their precious little austrian...but life is unfair and others have opinions and can share them

    Jesus man. My statement "in my last response and others I have said". others meaning other responses, nothing to do with other people.

    that pro-rossi crowd, who sees red as soon as some negative feedback is given to their precious little austrian...but life is unfair and others have opinions and can share them

    I just said in my previous post you can believe what you want.  Where did I ever say it is unfair to criticize him?  I said I believe he is a 2C and you can believe he is not.  

    To me, and many others, Rossi is at worst a 2C.  not sure who these "many others" are but i am fairly certain the ones that matter are looking to trade him.

    Look at the posts on here for the many.  And I have said numerous times how I am fine trading him for an upgrade.

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    17 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    then let's not bring Marchand into this unfair comparison. because that is doing him a great disservice. we might as well start comparing Rossi to MacKinnon too, why not if we do it solely on PPG

    You're incredibly ridiculous sometimes.

    If we compare Rossi's points scored through his age 23 season to someone who is relatively the same size, then we should compare him to someone who is larger and who scored at least 1.2 points per game since his age 22 season.

    Per minute, Marchand was more effective, but his regular season scoring wasn't greatly different at a young age. I already said I think Briere is the better comparison, and he had 70 points per 82 game season from ages 24-34.

    Granlund has been at 59 points per 82 game season from ages 24-current.

    Marchand had 81 points per 82 game season from ages 24-34.

    If we are just talking points, there are reasons to believe Rossi could be close to Marchand in points if given elite top line players to play with long-term. I don't know that he'll be given that situation, but I would put him more in the Briere's camp than Granlund to this point in his career.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Rossi being more like Kevin Fiala(between Briere and Marchand in points/game) than Granlund. He's not likely to turn into a major checking/physical threat, but he has legit offensive abilities.

     

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    20 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    we might as well start comparing Rossi to MacKinnon too

    First two years PPG avg.

    MacKinnon .69

    Rossi .61

    How about compared to the 2020 #1 draft pick:

    Lafreniere .39 (first 2 seasons) .51 (career)

    Hate on him all you want, the kid produces on a team that is desperate for scoring. Billy WILL trade him and get fleeced, as usual. Rossi will have a stellar career wherever he ends up and it won't be on the 4th line.

    I hope Kaprizov walks too so we can get rid of all of the current (mis)management. Although nothing will really ever change with Leipold owning the team. His track record for hiring is abysmal.

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    28 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Jesus man. My statement "in my last response and others I have said". others meaning other responses, nothing to do with other people.

    that pro-rossi crowd, who sees red as soon as some negative feedback is given to their precious little austrian...but life is unfair and others have opinions and can share them

    I just said in my previous post you can believe what you want.  Where did I ever say it is unfair to criticize him?  I said I believe he is a 2C and you can believe he is not.  

    To me, and many others, Rossi is at worst a 2C.  not sure who these "many others" are but i am fairly certain the ones that matter are looking to trade him.

    Look at the posts on here for the many.  And I have said numerous times how I am fine trading him for an upgrade.

    And I have said numerous times how I am fine trading him for an upgrade.

    OK 🍻 

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    20 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    You're incredibly ridiculous sometimes.

    If we compare Rossi's points scored through his age 23 season to someone who is relatively the same size, then we should compare him to someone who is larger and who scored at least 1.2 points per game since his age 22 season.

    Per minute, Marchand was more effective, but his regular season scoring wasn't greatly different at a young age. I already said I think Briere is the better comparison, and he had 70 points per 82 game season from ages 24-34.

    Granlund has been at 59 points per 82 game season from ages 24-current.

    Marchand had 81 points per 82 game season from ages 24-34.

    If we are just talking points, there are reasons to believe Rossi could be close to Marchand in points if given elite top line players to play with long-term. I don't know that he'll be given that situation, but I would put him more in the Briere's camp than Granlund to this point in his career.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Rossi being more like Kevin Fiala(between Briere and Marchand in points/game) than Granlund. He's not likely to turn into a major checking/physical threat, but he has legit offensive abilities.

     

    You're incredibly ridiculous sometimes. Thank you

    If we compare Rossi's points scored through his age 23 season to someone who is relatively the same size, then we should compare him to someone who is larger and who scored at least 1.2 points per game since his age 22 season. are you still on Marchand vs Rossi comparison train? because i have already stated that that comparison is out of whack, they were never the same type of players

    Per minute, Marchand was more effective, but his regular season scoring wasn't greatly different at a young age. they are different type of players period. if you looked at my examples and saw the video evidence you wouldn't keep bringing these silly comparisons

    I already said I think Briere is the better comparison, and he had 70 points per 82 game season from ages 24-34. ok fine, but briere was still a fiesty player, but i can live with this comp.

    Granlund has been at 59 points per 82 game season from ages 24-current. ok and? what is the conclusion? do we want to wait it out on Rossi and waste Kap's prime? 

    Marchand had 81 points per 82 game season from ages 24-34. different players - not applicable comp

    If we are just talking points, there are reasons to believe Rossi could be close to Marchand in points if given elite top line players to play with long-term.  i think we can just leave harty with Kap and he can produce better results (and cheaper) than Rossi. also - there are just as many "reasons" to believe that Rossi's career will end up in the same region of the world as Galchenyuk. so in order to narrow the predictability, one has to consider more factors other than scoring 😉

    I don't know that he'll be given that situation, but I would put him more in the Briere's camp than Granlund to this point in his career. sure

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Rossi being more like Kevin Fiala(between Briere and Marchand in points/game) than Granlund. He's not likely to turn into a major checking/physical threat, but he has legit offensive abilities. he is not as skilled as Fiala nor does he have the same set of gorgeous hair

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    26 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

    First two years PPG avg.

    MacKinnon .69

    Rossi .61

    How about compared to the 2020 #1 draft pick:

    Lafreniere .39 (first 2 seasons) .51 (career)

    Hate on him all you want, the kid produces on a team that is desperate for scoring. Billy WILL trade him and get fleeced, as usual. Rossi will have a stellar career wherever he ends up and it won't be on the 4th line.

    I hope Kaprizov walks too so we can get rid of all of the current (mis)management. Although nothing will really ever change with Leipold owning the team. His track record for hiring is abysmal.

    so Rossi is almost like MacK? niiiice

    Rossi will have a stellar career wherever he ends up and it won't be on the 4th line. i'm ok with that, good for him

    I hope Kaprizov walks too so we can get rid of all of the current (mis)management. Rossi > Kap is the message, i get it, i truly do!

     

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    What is particularly confusing is how Brazeau who is the opposite of Rossi in every way, he is big, slow, defensively terrible, offensively challenged and absolutely not deserving of a roster spot, was absolutely cemented in the lineup.  WTF.  Does Hynes set his own lineups? If so he needs to be fired.  If not BG needs to be fired or put in his place by ownership. 

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    On 5/4/2025 at 6:21 PM, OldDutchChip said:

    Boldy stepped up so he is a keeper. 
    Faber is fat and slow. 

     

    Based on my expertise (being fat), the No. 1 thing to know about fat guys is how they all play 27 minutes a night in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

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    1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

    Based on my expertise (being fat), the No. 1 thing to know about fat guys is how they all play 27 minutes a night in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

    Suter is fat

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