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  • The Wild Created A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy With Marco Rossi


    Image courtesy of Stephen R. Sylvanie - Imagn Images
    Tony Abbott

    Somehow, the biggest lightning rod in the Minnesota Wild's abbreviated playoff run was the player with the team's third-fewest minutes. But that's what fans will focus on when a team takes Marco Rossi, their second-leading scorer in the regular season, and plays him for 11 minutes and 8 seconds per night.

    For context, that's less than Marat Khusnutdinov, a fourth-line center with seven points in 57 games, got during the regular season.

    Having seen the Wild's postseason play out, it's clear what happened. John Hynes (and possibly Bill Guerin, judging from some of his radio comments) decided that Rossi couldn't make an impact in a series against the Vegas Golden Knights. He started on the third line with Marcus Foligno and a clearly washed Gustav Nyquist, a role Rossi hadn't been in all season. After struggling in his playoff debut, the Wild demoted him to the fourth line with Yakov Trenin and Justin Brazeau.

    And that's where he stayed. Scoring goals in back-to-back games didn't get him out of the doghouse. Engaging physically in Game 5, where he registered three hits and three blocked shots, didn't do the trick, either. No style of play, no level of success was getting him off the fourth line. There was nothing he could do

    In doing so, the Wild doomed Rossi to their self-fulfilling prophecy. By treating him as if he couldn't make an impact, they put him in a position where he was least capable of making one. Despite the three points in six games -- a 0.50 PPG average that is, mind you, tied for 19th in franchise history, between Kevin Fiala (0.53 PPG) and Mikko Koivu (0.47) -- Minnesota got a result they can point to and back up their suspicions. 

    His detractors (including those in the Wild organization) can point to three flashpoints:

    1. Rossi being on the ice for the Game 5 overtime goal.
    2. His double minor in Game 6.
    3. And his having the worst expected goals percentage at 5-on-5 this series, as noted by The Athletic.

    Make of the errors what you'd like, I guess. Rossi was part of that Game 5 breakdown -- although there's a pretty good case that Zach Bogosian was more responsible. Even though Brayden McNabb lifted Rossi's stick into his own face in Game 6, Rossi still has to control his stick.

    But as for his expected goals percentage... what did the Wild expect?

    Out of 18 forwards with 150-plus minutes at 5-on-5 for the Wild during the regular season, Trenin was 10th in goals for percentage (44.4) and 11th in expected goals for percentage (47.5). Brazeau ranked dead last in both categories. Both players were in the bottom half of generating actual and expected goals per hour.

    That trio didn't generate offense outside of two nice passes off a Trenin forecheck. The Rossi-Trenin duo combined to get just a 28.5% share of the expected goals in their limited time on the ice. Minnesota generated expected goals at a rate of 0.99 per hour with that tandem, which is abysmal. When apart from Trenin, his expected goals share boosted up to 49.3%, and the Wild generated 2.44 expected goals per hour. 

    If you're looking for a reason why Rossi would have disappointing numbers with Trenin and Brazeau, it's not hard to figure out. There's a reason Hynes doesn't consider playing Matt Boldy or Kirill Kaprizov on the fourth line for an entire playoff series.

    Maybe you're thinking something like, Look, a player isn't entitled to a spot in the lineup because they scored 60 points in the regular season. This is professional sports. It's not about fairness or being a hard-working kid with a good attitude who does everything the team asks of him. It's about results.

    And, hey, maybe that's right. So let's take a look at Rossi's results.

    In 66:47 of all-situations time, Rossi scored three points. Mind you, only 3:30 of that was on the power play, less time than the likes of Nyquist and Marcus Johansson. Despite being a power play afterthought, he put up 2.70 points per hour during his ice time.

    For fun, here's a list of Wild players who Rossi's career points per hour rate beats out:

    Zach Parise, 2.66 points per hour
    Kirill Kaprizov, 2.40 points per hour
    Marian Gaborik, 2.36 points per hour
    Ryan Hartman, 2.30 points per hour
    Jason Pominville, 2.28 points per hour
    Wes Walz, 2.26 points per hour
    Brian Rolston, 2.03 points per hour
    Kevin Fiala, 1.89 points per hour
    Pavol Demitra, 1.86 points per hour
    Matt Boldy, 1.86 points per hour
    Eric Staal, 1.86 points per hour
    Nino Niederreiter, 1.82 points per hour

    Small sample size, but damn, that sounds like someone Minnesota should've put on the ice if they wanted not to lose three games by a goal each.

    Only Hynes didn't do that. It's one thing for a coach to bury his team's second-leading scorer on the fourth line and win the series. They can claim they pushed the right buttons, and scoreboard. Who's gonna argue? But when they lose a series of one-goal games? There are gonna be questions to answer, especially for a coach whose playoff results aren't exactly above reproach.

    It was a predictable outcome for the Wild, partly because they ensured it, both for Rossi and the series as a whole. Minnesota played Rossi on the fourth line, and now they can claim he played like a fourth liner. That makes sense. The logical conclusion for Hynes turning his third-most-potent scoring threat into a fourth-liner was the one we saw.

    The Wild offense drying up the second Kaprizov and Boldy started running out of gas.

    Don't worry -- with the increasingly inevitable Rossi trade coming up, it appears that no lessons will be learned from any of this.

    Think you could write a story like this? Hockey Wilderness wants you to develop your voice, find an audience, and we'll pay you to do it. Just fill out this form.

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    everybody relax! i have been crunching some numbers and without any doubt Rossi's trajectory is akin to that of studs like Pierre Marc Bouchard and Alex Gachenyuk! One of us! Rejoice!

     

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    11 minutes ago, TCMooch said:

    Honestly if I was Kap and I saw what BILLY GM was building I’d nope the fuck out so fast. With him as GM, this team is going nowhere. 
     

    he drafted Rossi then expects him to grow 5 inches or something. Rossi didn’t so now Billy shits on him. Draft Lundell then you fucking idiot.

    riiiight, i think Kap would demand to continue to play with midgets so that he can take the punishment by vegas, winnipeg, dallas, colorado, st. louis. he loves playing with Zuccy and Rossi. and probably laughed at his comrade - Dorofeev - when he told him he plays with grown man (Stone and Eichel). 

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    31 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

     The Wild have been starved for centers and scoring forever, so of course, management wants to get rid of an actual homegrown center with tremendous offseason work ethic who plays two way hockey and scored 60 points in his second season. Wild have  been starved for L1/L2 centers. Rossi ain't it. homegrown or not. tremendous work ethic is a given for most hockey players so why single out Rossi? is he something special? like does he train in the same conditions that Marat used to train (that didn't help Marat though) or does he hunt wild boars? what's so special about the training? As for more centers - Wild have Harty as good 3rd. If they sign the MN boy - Nelson - then i guess you have Ek - Nelson - Harty. So Rossi could be used to flip for a wing. 

    As usual, you misread other’s posts … the best teams have more than one center on their top 2-3 lines.  If Rossi is flipped for a wing, the center depth is no better.  
     

    Again, I think ODC gets his wish and Rossi is traded.  I would rather pay a player LIKE Rossi 7M+ for 8 years instead of a player LIKE NELSON.  One will be 32 at the end of the contract.  The other will be 41.  Even if the latter is signed for only 5 years, he would still be 6 years older when both contracts end.

    A smart GM will build a team with solid young players and 1-2 core foundational players (like Kaprizov) and then get any needed rentals at the TDL.  Chasing older players like Nelson is a fool’s errand in that the term and NTC/NMC that these types of players demand doesn’t age well.  Another key to the best teams is that they are always sprinkling in 1-2 rookies for low cost contracts to replace older more expensive players.  GMBG and the Wild coaching staff doesn’t seem comfortable doesn’t seem comfortable doing that.

     

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    34 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    i think he may have had a paper cut on his pinky. explains a lot.

    This quote perfectly exemplifies your bias.  According to his exit interview, Rossi doesn’t need any offseason surgery for anything.

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    Just now, WildNotMild said:

    As usual, you misread other’s posts … the best teams have more than one center on their top 2-3 lines.  If Rossi is flipped for a wing, the center depth is no better.  
     

    Again, I think ODC gets his wish and Rossi is traded.  I would rather pay a player LIKE Rossi 7M+ for 8 years instead of a player LIKE NELSON.  One will be 32 at the end of the contract.  The other will be 41.  Even if the latter is signed for only 5 years, he would still be 6 years older when both contracts end.

    A smart GM will build a team with solid young players and 1-2 core foundational players (like Kaprizov) and then get any needed rentals at the TDL.  Chasing older players like Nelson is a fool’s errand in that the term and NTC/NMC that these types of players demand doesn’t age well.  Another key to the best teams is that they are always sprinkling in 1-2 rookies for low cost contracts to replace older more expensive players.  GMBG and the Wild coaching staff doesn’t seem comfortable doesn’t seem comfortable doing that.

     

    As usual, you misread other’s posts i do try to make sense of other posts, but sometimes they are a bit odd, so it may not be me - and maybe it's you 

    I would rather pay a player LIKE Rossi 7M+ for 8 years instead of a player LIKE NELSON.  One will be 32 at the end of the contract.  The other will be 41. i suppose i agree, but are you suggesting that Nelson comes here for 8 years? yikes! but i'd take Ryan Suter for another 8 years at 1M per, than these two, if we go the 8 year route.

    A smart GM will build a team with solid young players and 1-2 core foundational players (like Kaprizov) and then get any needed rentals at the TDL. well we have Kap, Boldy, zeev, faber, gus, jiricek, johansson - there is your core

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    Just now, Citizen Strife said:

    It wouldn't be a fiery topic if ODC wasn't replying to everyone twice as much as necessary.

    i do what i can to calm the waters

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    3 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

    This quote perfectly exemplifies your bias.  According to his exit interview, Rossi doesn’t need any offseason surgery for anything.

    are you so sure his pinky was not wounded? i am pretty sure it's very common.

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    Just now, OldDutchChip said:

    As usual, you misread other’s posts i do try to make sense of other posts, but sometimes they are a bit odd, so it may not be me - and maybe it's you 

    I would rather pay a player LIKE Rossi 7M+ for 8 years instead of a player LIKE NELSON.  One will be 32 at the end of the contract.  The other will be 41. i suppose i agree, but are you suggesting that Nelson comes here for 8 years? yikes! but i'd take Ryan Suter for another 8 years at 1M per, than these two, if we go the 8 year route.

    A smart GM will build a team with solid young players and 1-2 core foundational players (like Kaprizov) and then get any needed rentals at the TDL. well we have Kap, Boldy, zeev, faber, gus, jiricek, johansson - there is your core

    Within the last couple of weeks, you have ripped on Faber for being fat and slow.  You also have wanted to trade Boldy in most of your trade proposals.  

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    ODC, you might think you are smarter than everyone else on this forum and/or funnier (I disagree with both)… BUT, you are the one flip-flopping more than a freshly caught fish on land, mis-reading almost everyone else’s posts and insisting on arguing with everyone.

    You don’t have to respond to every post from everyone else.

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    4 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

    Within the last couple of weeks, you have ripped on Faber for being fat and slow.  You also have wanted to trade Boldy in most of your trade proposals.  

    Boldy stepped up so he is a keeper. 
    Faber is fat and slow. 

     

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    1 minute ago, WildNotMild said:

    ODC, you might think you are smarter than everyone else on this forum and/or funnier (I disagree with both)… BUT, you are the one flip-flopping more than a freshly caught fish on land, mis-reading almost everyone else’s posts and insisting on arguing with everyone.

    You don’t have to respond to every post from everyone else.

    why do you respond to me then? 

    as for flip flopping - not sure what do you mean....i give players their chances, should they change my mind - so be it. Rossi did that up to Jan and then he stunk. i just give it like it is. if you prefer sugar coating - then i am sorry - that is not me. 🍻

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    1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

    why do you respond to me then? 

    as for flip flopping - not sure what do you mean....i give players their chances, should they change my mind - so be it. Rossi did that up to Jan and then he stunk. i just give it like it is. if you prefer sugar coating - then i am sorry - that is not me. 🍻

    Because although I have been a long time reader of this forum, I am a newer poster.  I was hoping that by being yet another poster that you can’t get along with, that MAYBE you could recognize a reoccurring trend and would reconsider your tactics.  If you prefer that I ignore you like others, I can, but can you return the same courtesy in kind … or will you be compelled to mis-read and argue?

    Your move ODC.  Please choose a fresh tactic and not be stale (nobody likes stale chips, pun intended).

     

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    29 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

    Because although I have been a long time reader of this forum, I am a newer poster.  I was hoping that by being yet another poster that you can’t get along with, that MAYBE you could recognize a reoccurring trend and would reconsider your tactics.  If you prefer that I ignore you like others, I can, but can you return the same courtesy in kind … or will you be compelled to mis-read and argue?

    Your move ODC.  Please choose a fresh tactic and not be stale (nobody likes stale chips, pun intended).

     

     I was hoping that by being yet another poster that you can’t get along with, that MAYBE you could recognize a reoccurring trend and would reconsider your tactics. are you serious? this is a forum where people opinion on sports. if you think you are mother teresa and i'm this oppressing tyrant, then grow up - the oppressing label is just as easily can be placed upon the mob who yells insults at any unpopular opinion and ridicule it, but when it flips - now the tears come - crocodile tears they are. you afraid to hear opposing view points and just want to consume same old? well then go ahead and skip my points but please - cut the bs. none of us are forum "saints".

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    For those that say Rossi only was good half the year, here are his breakdowns by month.

    October, 8 points in 9 games

    November, 11 points in 15 games

    December, 13 points in 14 games

    January, 14 points in 14 games

    February, 5 points in 8 games

    March, 4 points in 15 games

    April, 5 points in 7 games

    Playoffs, 3 points in 6 games in limited minutes.

    I see one bad month.  That is enough to say he can’t be a 1 or 2C?  In only his second year?  

     

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    12 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    For those that say Rossi only was good half the year, here are his breakdowns by month.

    October, 8 points in 9 games

    November, 11 points in 15 games

    December, 13 points in 14 games

    January, 14 points in 14 games

    February, 5 points in 8 games

    March, 4 points in 15 games

    April, 5 points in 7 games

    Playoffs, 3 points in 6 games in limited minutes.

    I see one bad month.  That is enough to say he can’t be a 1 or 2C?  In only his second year?  

     

    you have to build a successful team, not just assemble a collection of players. we have the following players in our top 6 right now (at the start of upcoming year) -

    Boldy, Ek, Zuccy, Rossi, Yurov (assumption)

    you seriously think that this tiny group will succeed? in that stat dump of yours - did you weigh the games that Rossi played with top 6 players like boldy and kap? and what happened when he was given a more independent role to drive/lead his line? do i need to say that or do you know the answer?

    i think the reality is that we have to bring in a player into our top 6 that plays bigger. that is going to cost us. but it's necessary to join the big boys and have a chance to compete!

    no one will want foligno nor freddy nor hartman and just gift us what we need. we won't be saved by old man Nelson. we need to go big name hunting. and what will it cost?  it will cost Rossi and/or Faber. that's the reality. you can get upset about it but dallas ain't complaining - Ranty did alright for them huh? i hope billy has the balls and smarts to deal this summer. One of Rossi or Faber needs to be smartly packaged for some disgruntled top end player.  

     

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    1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

    you have to build a successful team, not just assemble a collection of players. we have the following players in our top 6 right now (at the start of upcoming year) -

    Boldy, Ek, Zuccy, Rossi, Yurov (assumption)

    you seriously think that this tiny group will succeed? in that stat dump of yours - did you weigh the games that Rossi played with top 6 players like boldy and kap? and what happened when he was given a more independent role to drive/lead his line? do i need to say that or do you know the answer?

    i think the reality is that we have to bring in a player into our top 6 that plays bigger. that is going to cost us. but it's necessary to join the big boys and have a chance to compete!

    no one will want foligno nor freddy nor hartman and just gift us what we need. we won't be saved by old man Nelson. we need to go big name hunting. and what will it cost?  it will cost Rossi and/or Faber. that's the reality. you can get upset about it but dallas ain't complaining - Ranty did alright for them huh? i hope billy has the balls and smarts to deal this summer. One of Rossi or Faber needs to be smartly packaged for some disgruntled top end player.  

     

    Of course he played with Boldy or Kap, he played on the top 2 lines.  But his best month with 14 points in 14 games was in January without Kap.  Zuccy is here one more year, presumably.  Ek is tiny?  Boldy is tiny? Kap is tiny?

    When does any top line center play without top players?  
     

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    Tony, you nailed it. Guerin and Hynes will be gone within a year from now and Billy G. will have emptied the cupboards of anything valuable (Kaprizov and Rossi) and replaced them with aging has-beens with term and no or limited movement. But they'll have size and be gritty.

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    8 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Of course he played with Boldy or Kap, he played on the top 2 lines.  But his best month with 14 points in 14 games was in January without Kap.  Zuccy is here one more year, presumably.  Ek is tiny?  Boldy is tiny? Kap is tiny?

    When does any top line center play without top players?  
     

    Ek and Boldy are not physical and nasty players. Think Stone, Tkachuk, Benn. And Kap is not that either and shouldn't be. 

    Rossi is not top line center, but yes he played with top players and padded his stats. That was true for Harty too - no shame in that. Yes, Rossi played well into January but then, when given more leadership opportunities, he failed. So yes, he needs to be used in a trade to beef up the top 6. 

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    4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Ek and Boldy are not physical and nasty players. Think Stone, Tkachuk, Benn. And Kap is not that either and shouldn't be. 

    Rossi is not top line center, but yes he played with top players and padded his stats. That was true for Harty too - no shame in that. Yes, Rossi played well into January but then, when given more leadership opportunities, he failed. So yes, he needs to be used in a trade to beef up the top 6. 

    Funny.  Rossi padded his stats playing with Boldy who earlier this year you wanted to trade because he wasn’t a playoff player and wouldnt be good enough.  Now he is the only reason Rossi got any points.  Classic

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    36 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Funny.  Rossi padded his stats playing with Boldy who earlier this year you wanted to trade because he wasn’t a playoff player and wouldnt be good enough.  Now he is the only reason Rossi got any points.  Classic

    the point is that Rossi played with Top players and played well, but we needed more from him and when he was given more leadership opportunities at the top - he failed. do you understand that? or you still going to twist my words around to fit your delusionary thinking?

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    5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    the point is that Rossi played with Top players and played well, but we needed more from him and when he was given more leadership opportunities at the top - he failed. do you understand that? or you still going to twist my words around to fit your delusionary thinking?

    Lol.  My point is pretty clear.  You said the same thing about Boldy a few months ago.  Boldy had a rough December and you wanted to trade him.  He was never going to be anything and would fail in the playoffs.  Rossi “failed” in one month, March and now he sucks and will never be anything.  He played with the same players in January and February and did fine.

     

     

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    14 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    the point is that Rossi played with Top players and played well, but we needed more from him and when he was given more leadership opportunities at the top - he failed. do you understand that? or you still going to twist my words around to fit your delusionary thinking?

    Also, please elaborate on my “delusionary thinking”, the definition of it is a “belief that is firmly held despite a lack of evidence or proof”.

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    11 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Lol.  My point is pretty clear.  You said the same thing about Boldy a few months ago.  Boldy had a rough December and you wanted to trade him.  He was never going to be anything and would fail in the playoffs.  Rossi “failed” in one month, March and now he sucks and will never be anything.  He played with the same players in January and February and did fine.

     

     

    Boldy (a) delivered in the playoffs and (b) aligns on Kaprizov schedule (we do not have what-ifs, that we do with Rossi and do not have patients to let more time go by during Kaprizov's prime - assuming he resigns). Get it? or you want the never ending prospect and development circus?

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. he then was MIA during the first two games. Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. FACTS. 

    • We are building a team for the now. Rossi does not fit that.
    • We are building a team that needs size up top to compliment and support Kap better. Rossi does not fit that. 
    • We need a leader and someone who can drive his line now so that when it becomes tough for the top dogs to score, another one can stand up. Rossi did not do that. 

    and then again with your over the top screams "...now he sucks and will never be anything" - go ahead and show me where i've stated that "he sucks  and will never be anything".... oh you said that, not me! i keep saying he is a good player but jsut not for us. yes he faltered during the last couple of month and had a bad PO, but that doesn't mean that he is a bad player. but you keep twisting my words to make your claims less absurd. i guess - go for it 🍻

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