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  • The Wild Created A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy With Marco Rossi


    Image courtesy of Stephen R. Sylvanie - Imagn Images
    Tony Abbott

    Somehow, the biggest lightning rod in the Minnesota Wild's abbreviated playoff run was the player with the team's third-fewest minutes. But that's what fans will focus on when a team takes Marco Rossi, their second-leading scorer in the regular season, and plays him for 11 minutes and 8 seconds per night.

    For context, that's less than Marat Khusnutdinov, a fourth-line center with seven points in 57 games, got during the regular season.

    Having seen the Wild's postseason play out, it's clear what happened. John Hynes (and possibly Bill Guerin, judging from some of his radio comments) decided that Rossi couldn't make an impact in a series against the Vegas Golden Knights. He started on the third line with Marcus Foligno and a clearly washed Gustav Nyquist, a role Rossi hadn't been in all season. After struggling in his playoff debut, the Wild demoted him to the fourth line with Yakov Trenin and Justin Brazeau.

    And that's where he stayed. Scoring goals in back-to-back games didn't get him out of the doghouse. Engaging physically in Game 5, where he registered three hits and three blocked shots, didn't do the trick, either. No style of play, no level of success was getting him off the fourth line. There was nothing he could do

    In doing so, the Wild doomed Rossi to their self-fulfilling prophecy. By treating him as if he couldn't make an impact, they put him in a position where he was least capable of making one. Despite the three points in six games -- a 0.50 PPG average that is, mind you, tied for 19th in franchise history, between Kevin Fiala (0.53 PPG) and Mikko Koivu (0.47) -- Minnesota got a result they can point to and back up their suspicions. 

    His detractors (including those in the Wild organization) can point to three flashpoints:

    1. Rossi being on the ice for the Game 5 overtime goal.
    2. His double minor in Game 6.
    3. And his having the worst expected goals percentage at 5-on-5 this series, as noted by The Athletic.

    Make of the errors what you'd like, I guess. Rossi was part of that Game 5 breakdown -- although there's a pretty good case that Zach Bogosian was more responsible. Even though Brayden McNabb lifted Rossi's stick into his own face in Game 6, Rossi still has to control his stick.

    But as for his expected goals percentage... what did the Wild expect?

    Out of 18 forwards with 150-plus minutes at 5-on-5 for the Wild during the regular season, Trenin was 10th in goals for percentage (44.4) and 11th in expected goals for percentage (47.5). Brazeau ranked dead last in both categories. Both players were in the bottom half of generating actual and expected goals per hour.

    That trio didn't generate offense outside of two nice passes off a Trenin forecheck. The Rossi-Trenin duo combined to get just a 28.5% share of the expected goals in their limited time on the ice. Minnesota generated expected goals at a rate of 0.99 per hour with that tandem, which is abysmal. When apart from Trenin, his expected goals share boosted up to 49.3%, and the Wild generated 2.44 expected goals per hour. 

    If you're looking for a reason why Rossi would have disappointing numbers with Trenin and Brazeau, it's not hard to figure out. There's a reason Hynes doesn't consider playing Matt Boldy or Kirill Kaprizov on the fourth line for an entire playoff series.

    Maybe you're thinking something like, Look, a player isn't entitled to a spot in the lineup because they scored 60 points in the regular season. This is professional sports. It's not about fairness or being a hard-working kid with a good attitude who does everything the team asks of him. It's about results.

    And, hey, maybe that's right. So let's take a look at Rossi's results.

    In 66:47 of all-situations time, Rossi scored three points. Mind you, only 3:30 of that was on the power play, less time than the likes of Nyquist and Marcus Johansson. Despite being a power play afterthought, he put up 2.70 points per hour during his ice time.

    For fun, here's a list of Wild players who Rossi's career points per hour rate beats out:

    Zach Parise, 2.66 points per hour
    Kirill Kaprizov, 2.40 points per hour
    Marian Gaborik, 2.36 points per hour
    Ryan Hartman, 2.30 points per hour
    Jason Pominville, 2.28 points per hour
    Wes Walz, 2.26 points per hour
    Brian Rolston, 2.03 points per hour
    Kevin Fiala, 1.89 points per hour
    Pavol Demitra, 1.86 points per hour
    Matt Boldy, 1.86 points per hour
    Eric Staal, 1.86 points per hour
    Nino Niederreiter, 1.82 points per hour

    Small sample size, but damn, that sounds like someone Minnesota should've put on the ice if they wanted not to lose three games by a goal each.

    Only Hynes didn't do that. It's one thing for a coach to bury his team's second-leading scorer on the fourth line and win the series. They can claim they pushed the right buttons, and scoreboard. Who's gonna argue? But when they lose a series of one-goal games? There are gonna be questions to answer, especially for a coach whose playoff results aren't exactly above reproach.

    It was a predictable outcome for the Wild, partly because they ensured it, both for Rossi and the series as a whole. Minnesota played Rossi on the fourth line, and now they can claim he played like a fourth liner. That makes sense. The logical conclusion for Hynes turning his third-most-potent scoring threat into a fourth-liner was the one we saw.

    The Wild offense drying up the second Kaprizov and Boldy started running out of gas.

    Don't worry -- with the increasingly inevitable Rossi trade coming up, it appears that no lessons will be learned from any of this.

    Think you could write a story like this? Hockey Wilderness wants you to develop your voice, find an audience, and we'll pay you to do it. Just fill out this form.

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    8 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Boldy (a) delivered in the playoffs and (b) aligns on Kaprizov schedule (we do not have what-ifs, that we do with Rossi and do not have patients to let more time go by during Kaprizov's prime - assuming he resigns). Get it? or you want the never ending prospect and development circus?

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. he then was MIA during the first two games. Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. FACTS. 

    • We are building a team for the now. Rossi does not fit that.
    • We are building a team that needs size up top to compliment and support Kap better. Rossi does not fit that. 
    • We need a leader and someone who can drive his line now so that when it becomes tough for the top dogs to score, another one can stand up. Rossi did not do that. 

    and then again with your over the top screams "...now he sucks and will never be anything" - go ahead and show me where i've stated that "he sucks  and will never be anything".... oh you said that, not me! i keep saying he is a good player but jsut not for us. yes he faltered during the last couple of month and had a bad PO, but that doesn't mean that he is a bad player. but you keep twisting my words to make your claims less absurd. i guess - go for it 🍻

    What was my claim?  I showed his stats that showed he had one bad month.  That is it.

    You say show me where you said he sucked?  Reread what you just wrote….

    ”What did he do for an encore?  Sucked again…”

    Then you state three reasons why Rossi does not fit and call them Facts.  Not facts, opinions.

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    19 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Also, please elaborate on my “delusionary thinking”, the definition of it is a “belief that is firmly held despite a lack of evidence or proof”.

    i have tried many times. but you may be beyond my reach. but anyone who tries to use partial and biased stat-based analysis to prove his case and calls it a final claim and laughs off any other opinions is being dishonest. 

     

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    4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    i have tried many times. but you may be beyond my reach. but anyone who tries to use partial and biased stat-based analysis to prove his case and calls it a final claim and laughs off any other opinions is being dishonest. 

     

    I wasnt proving any case!  All I showed were his stats by month that he had one bad month!  Then asked is one bad month enough to prove if he can be a 1c or 2c?  That is all.  How are those biased or partial stats?

    I have stated multiple times I hope we can keep him under the right contract.  I have also said if we have to use him in a trade and it is an upgrade, great.  Have never said we must keep him

    Edited by SkolWild73
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    On a fun hockey note with no debate I hope. Is anyone watching this blues/jets game.  Two goals for the jets in the last two minutes with the last with 3 seconds to play to send it to overtime.  In second ot now.  What a game. 

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    6 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    On a fun hockey note with no debate I hope. Is anyone watching this blues/jets game.  Two goals for the jets in the last two minutes with the last with 3 seconds to play to send it to overtime.  In second ot now.  What a game. 

    If only Perfetti was taller and meaner, lol.

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    10 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

    If only Perfetti was taller and meaner, lol.

    What a comeback.  Blues fans and players must be sick. 

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    36 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    What was my claim?  I showed his stats that showed he had one bad month.  That is it.

    You say show me where you said he sucked?  Reread what you just wrote….

    ”What did he do for an encore?  Sucked again…”

    Then you state three reasons why Rossi does not fit and call them Facts.  Not facts, opinions.

    he sucked during majority of the PO - but that doesn't mean he sucks as a player - he just doesn't fit.

    ok here - let me make it clear for you. i have stated the following: 

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. he then was MIA during the first two games. Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. FACTS.  

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. Rossi stats for last 2 month of the year = 9 pts in 22 games. Do you think it's good numbers for top 6 center? i do not.

    he then was MIA during the first two games. again yes. do you disagree?

    Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. what is incorrect here?

    What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. what is wrong with this? 

    I guess they are FACTS > Deal with them or don't

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    34 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    I wasnt proving any case!  All I showed were his stats by month that he had one bad month!  Then asked is one bad month enough to prove if he can be a 1c or 2c?  That is all.  How are those biased or partial stats?

    I have stated multiple times I hope we can keep him under the right contract.  I have also said if we have to use him in a trade and it is an upgrade, great.  Have never said we must keep him

    How are those biased or partial stats? because you used one stat. 🙂 that's it. do you understand that using one outcome instead of many is flawed? there are other variables that one can use to come up with a more unbiased claim. you did NONE of that. yet you claim that your opinion is superior to others. why exactly?

    i added Trenin 2.15 pts per 60 mins for a specific reason - to show you how stats can be misleading. Trenin has outperformed boldy and fiala this year in production. But you can have a more broad view, and take in account more factors. But you don't. Alright buddy, i am done, but if you want to diversify your opinion to be unbiased - just look at G6 again and look at Rossi. Might help. Cheeers.

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    5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    How are those biased or partial stats? because you used one stat. 🙂 that's it. do you understand that using one outcome instead of many is flawed? there are other variables that one can use to come up with a more unbiased claim. you did NONE of that. yet you claim that your opinion is superior to others. why exactly?

    i added Trenin 2.15 pts per 60 mins for a specific reason - to show you how stats can be misleading. Trenin has outperformed boldy and fiala this year in production. But you can have a more broad view, and take in account more factors. But you don't. Alright buddy, i am done, but if you want to diversify your opinion to be unbiased - just look at G6 again and look at Rossi. Might help. Cheeers.

    When did I claim my opinion was superior?  What exact opinion or statement did I make that I said mine was superior to others?  I simply asked if one bad month is enough to say he cannot be a 1c or 2c.

     

    I have said it multiple times the danger of judging a player in his first playoff series as what he is.  Many did with Boldy and were wrong.  Many players better than Rossi have had worse playoff series and ended up fine.

    Edited by SkolWild73
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    13 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    When did I claim my opinion was superior?  What exact opinion or statement did I make that I said mine was superior to others?  I simply asked if one bad month is enough to say he cannot be a 1c or 2c.

     

    I have said it multiple times the danger of judging a player in his first playoff series as what he is.  Many did with Boldy and were wrong.  Many players better than Rossi have had worse playoff series and ended up fine.

    When did I claim my opinion was superior? everytime you post that claim shines through 😉 

    Many players better than Rossi have had worse playoff series and ended up fine. sure and maybe for Sharks and Hawks this would be a blessing, but for us and for our timeline it really isn't. We have to adjust the approach because we have a game-changer (for now) so this wait-and-see approach is not for winners. i don't really care if Rossi becomes 1c or 2c in 4 years. i care about putting a winner out on the ice NOW because that is on Kap's timeline. Rossi struggled towards the end of the season (no matter what stats say), he struggled in the PO (and yes the coaches do know a thing or two and place a player on a line for a reason - see Harty), all ending with worst game i've seen from a Wild player in a long time. so wait and see is not for me, likely not for Billy and not for hines and def not for Kap. 

     

    out of a funk towards and had the worst game of his career. You are 

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    12 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

     I was hoping that by being yet another poster that you can’t get along with, that MAYBE you could recognize a reoccurring trend and would reconsider your tactics. are you serious? this is a forum where people opinion on sports. if you think you are mother teresa and i'm this oppressing tyrant, then grow up - the oppressing label is just as easily can be placed upon the mob who yells insults at any unpopular opinion and ridicule it, but when it flips - now the tears come - crocodile tears they are. you afraid to hear opposing view points and just want to consume same old? well then go ahead and skip my points but please - cut the bs. none of us are forum "saints".

    ODC don't take no bullshit.  You can't stop him, you can only hope to contain him.

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    10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes.

    This is a great counter point to the "he got 3 pts in 6 games crowd" re: Rossi playoff performance.  Without T-bag silver plattering a couple passes (how ironic is that to write) Rossi playoff's would have been a nothingburger.  Rossi is all Finnish and no Swedish so I'll give him that credit.  Fred would have caught the Trenin pass and then passed it out to the point.

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    Our window is now thru 5 yrs from now.  97, 12, 14, 7 all in their prime years.  We'll get a 1-2 more good years from Foligno before he begins to break down.  46 defies father time for 1-2 more years.  Does Zeev become Duncan Keith?  We'll see.  Midds, Playoff Trenin, Hartzy, Vinnesota all continue to under promise and over deliver.  This is not enough difference makers to get passed the first round.  FIRST ROUND!!

    Here's what happens this off-season:

    Brodin gets traded for a grown ass top 6'r.  I hate this too, but you've got to give to get.

    Rossi + picks/prospects (likely Ogz as the 15 d-men that Brackett drafted his first few seasons will be selling farm equipment is Saskatoon in couple years) gets traded for grown ass top 6'r.  On a contender a player of Rossi's caliber plays the role that Fred is playing now, bouncing around the lineup as needed except that Rossi can Finnish.  But Mr P-Jangles why trade Rossi?  Because he's Robin and this group needs a couple Batman's.

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    30 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    This is a great counter point to the "he got 3 pts in 6 games crowd" re: Rossi playoff performance.  Without T-bag silver plattering a couple passes (how ironic is that to write) Rossi playoff's would have been a nothingburger.  Rossi is all Finnish and no Swedish so I'll give him that credit.  Fred would have caught the Trenin pass and then passed it out to the point.

    exactly! 🍻 He owes trenin a steak! 

    To me, Rossi's comp is Galchenyuk (worst case) or Pierre Marc Bouchard (best case). Both had good starts and one has bounced around and ended up in KHL, while the other was injured a ton but did have that good season passing the puck to Rolly. 

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    20 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    Our window is now thru 5 yrs from now.  97, 12, 14, 7 all in their prime years.  We'll get a 1-2 more good years from Foligno before he begins to break down.  46 defies father time for 1-2 more years.  Does Zeev become Duncan Keith?  We'll see.  Midds, Playoff Trenin, Hartzy, Vinnesota all continue to under promise and over deliver.  This is not enough difference makers to get passed the first round.  FIRST ROUND!!

    Here's what happens this off-season:

    Brodin gets traded for a grown ass top 6'r.  I hate this too, but you've got to give to get.

    Rossi + picks/prospects (likely Ogz as the 15 d-men that Brackett drafted his first few seasons will be selling farm equipment is Saskatoon in couple years) gets traded for grown ass top 6'r.  On a contender a player of Rossi's caliber plays the role that Fred is playing now, bouncing around the lineup as needed except that Rossi can Finnish.  But Mr P-Jangles why trade Rossi?  Because he's Robin and this group needs a couple Batman's.

    right on. the window is now with Kap in his prime. they have their core identified and they need guys who can deliver now, not 3-5-7 years from now. they also need help in their top 6 due to uncertainty with Yurov (who knows if he comes in like Zeev and looks a bit raw) and just overall petite level of physicality in current top 6 group. it works ok to get us into the PO but then it becomes a bit of challenge.....

    we know zuccy stays for one more year (unless bold bill buys him out) and he get top 6. can't do another season of rossi, zuccy, kap, ek, boldy MJ (assuming he resigns😆

    can billy fix this?

    well - remember when he traded 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 picks for Ranty who scored a hatty to knock out vegas? oh sorry, we traded that load for (a) prospect D who for some reason is still in development phase (b) nyquist "stud" and (c) braz - and after that Billy still has a job.....

    i think you may be right about Brodin, although i'd try to move Spurge - either as a bigger package or just a salary dump for a team like Sharks or Columbus or whoever needs a steady hand - give us a prospect or a 4th rounder and we sent off spurge and his 7.5 mm salary for 2 years. win win.

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    The player that Rossi reminds of the most is Mikael Granlund, both in size and skill. Rossi is off to a better start in his career and will likely end up being a better player. Rossi isn't much smaller than Kaprizov and will continue to grow and bulk up with age. He is only going to get better.

    I think the demotion was to devalue him so he accepts their low ball offer (which would be an odd decision if they plan on trading him). He deserves Boldy money in today's dollars because Boldy is now underpaid (we'll see how long he stays content). I think $7M for at least five years is fair and I bet the Wild will not offer a penny over $6M. Guerin is probably so butt hurt that Rossi rejected $5M, that may be the final nail for him here. It's obvious Guerin only likes players in his image because he's trying to live his 'old time hockey' fantasy.

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    10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    he sucked during majority of the PO - but that doesn't mean he sucks as a player - he just doesn't fit.

    ok here - let me make it clear for you. i have stated the following: 

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. he then was MIA during the first two games. Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. FACTS.  

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. Rossi stats for last 2 month of the year = 9 pts in 22 games. Do you think it's good numbers for top 6 center? i do not.

    he then was MIA during the first two games. again yes. do you disagree?

    Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. what is incorrect here?

    What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. what is wrong with this? 

    I guess they are FACTS > Deal with them or don't

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. Rossi stats for last 2 month of the year = 9 pts in 22 games. Do you think it's good numbers for top 6 center? i do not.

    I will break it down by month and say yes or no for top 6 center numbers.

    October: 8 points, 9 games, .889 points per game, 73 points for 82: Yes

    November: 11 points, 15 games, .733pgp, 60 points per 82: Yes

    December: 13 points, 14 games: .929pgp, 67 points per 82: Yes

    January: 14 points, 14 games: 1.00pgp, 82 points per 82: Yes

    February: 5 points, 8 games, .625pgp, 51 points per 82: Borderline

    March: 4 points, 15 games, .267pgp, 22 points per 82: No

    April: 5 points, 7 games, .714pgp, 58.5 points per 82: Yes

    When he had 5 months at .714pgp or higher, one month at a 51-point pace and one terrible month, I will look at the majority of the time he played as a top 6 C and not the one month that he did not.   If you want to use your 9 points in 22 games to say he is not a top 6 center, you can.  I will counter with 51 points in 60 games that says he can. Even Boldy had a run where he scored 9 points in 18 games from late November to early January.  I will judge him on the 64 points he put up in the other 64 games instead.

    he then was MIA during the first two games. again yes. do you disagree?  

    Whether I believe he was "MIA" in the first two games to me is irrelevant.  Too small of a sample size for me to judge him either way.  I don't believe I can say he isn't a playoff performer from some games where he was "MIA", just like I don't believe I can say he is because he scored 3 points in games 3 and 4.  He may or may not be in the future.  Boldy had 1 g in his first playoff series in 6 games and zero goals and 3 assists in his next playoff series in 6 games.  He got older, matured and was one of our best this year.  Will Rossi become that?  I don't think anyone of us can say one way or the other, but I am not going to judge him on his 6 games he played this year where he averaged just over 11 minutes a game and played the majority of it with Trenin and Brazeau.

    Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. what is incorrect here?

    Never said there was anything incorrect about that.  Doesn't prove he is or isn't a playoff performer.

    What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. what is wrong with this?

    I am not good enough at analyzing a hockey game to say that this was the worst game of his life, that may be your opinion.  Even if you believe that Rossi was MIA in games and played the worst game of his life in game 6, was he the only reason we did not win the series? I know other players had bad games and had bad plays throughout the series that hurt us.  Ek had zero shots on goal in game 6, zero hits, was less than 50% on the draw, and fanned on two shots that he easily could have scored on.  Nyquist's offside in game 5 was a killer.  Kaps turnover on the PP in game 5 that led to a shorthanded goal.  Midds on the OT goal where we win the faceoff and he whiffs on the pass.  Boldy same issue on a failed clear on the PK that led to a goal.

    Like I have said before, I think his play for the majority of the year was top 6 center material and I hope he is back under that right contract.  If he is traded, I hope it is for an upgrade.  If we are going to use his money to sign someone like a 34-year-old Nelson, I would disagree with that and would rather bet on the upside of Rossi.  If someone of a definitive upgrade becomes available in a trade, then great, use Rossi as that.  In a dream world, if after July 1st we hear that McDavid and Eichel do not want to resign with their teams, then by all means, use Rossi to get them

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    3 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

    Yes, Rossi did fail for 2 plus month leading up to PO. Rossi stats for last 2 month of the year = 9 pts in 22 games. Do you think it's good numbers for top 6 center? i do not.

    I will break it down by month and say yes or no for top 6 center numbers.

    October: 8 points, 9 games, .889 points per game, 73 points for 82: Yes

    November: 11 points, 15 games, .733pgp, 60 points per 82: Yes

    December: 13 points, 14 games: .929pgp, 67 points per 82: Yes

    January: 14 points, 14 games: 1.00pgp, 82 points per 82: Yes

    February: 5 points, 8 games, .625pgp, 51 points per 82: Borderline

    March: 4 points, 15 games, .267pgp, 22 points per 82: No

    April: 5 points, 7 games, .714pgp, 58.5 points per 82: Yes

    When he had 5 months at .714pgp or higher, one month at a 51-point pace and one terrible month, I will look at the majority of the time he played as a top 6 C and not the one month that he did not.   If you want to use your 9 points in 22 games to say he is not a top 6 center, you can.  I will counter with 51 points in 60 games that says he can. Even Boldy had a run where he scored 9 points in 18 games from late November to early January.  I will judge him on the 64 points he put up in the other 64 games instead.

    he then was MIA during the first two games. again yes. do you disagree?  

    Whether I believe he was "MIA" in the first two games to me is irrelevant.  Too small of a sample size for me to judge him either way.  I don't believe I can say he isn't a playoff performer from some games where he was "MIA", just like I don't believe I can say he is because he scored 3 points in games 3 and 4.  He may or may not be in the future.  Boldy had 1 g in his first playoff series in 6 games and zero goals and 3 assists in his next playoff series in 6 games.  He got older, matured and was one of our best this year.  Will Rossi become that?  I don't think anyone of us can say one way or the other, but I am not going to judge him on his 6 games he played this year where he averaged just over 11 minutes a game and played the majority of it with Trenin and Brazeau.

    Then Trenin did all the dirty work on the boards and gifted him two brilliant passes. Good for Rossi to score them. what is incorrect here?

    Never said there was anything incorrect about that.  Doesn't prove he is or isn't a playoff performer.

    What did he do for an encore? Sucked again and then played the worst game of his life when it mattered the most. what is wrong with this?

    I am not good enough at analyzing a hockey game to say that this was the worst game of his life, that may be your opinion.  Even if you believe that Rossi was MIA in games and played the worst game of his life in game 6, was he the only reason we did not win the series? I know other players had bad games and had bad plays throughout the series that hurt us.  Ek had zero shots on goal in game 6, zero hits, was less than 50% on the draw, and fanned on two shots that he easily could have scored on.  Nyquist's offside in game 5 was a killer.  Kaps turnover on the PP in game 5 that led to a shorthanded goal.  Midds on the OT goal where we win the faceoff and he whiffs on the pass.  Boldy same issue on a failed clear on the PK that led to a goal.

    Like I have said before, I think his play for the majority of the year was top 6 center material and I hope he is back under that right contract.  If he is traded, I hope it is for an upgrade.  If we are going to use his money to sign someone like a 34-year-old Nelson, I would disagree with that and would rather bet on the upside of Rossi.  If someone of a definitive upgrade becomes available in a trade, then great, use Rossi as that.  In a dream world, if after July 1st we hear that McDavid and Eichel do not want to resign with their teams, then by all means, use Rossi to get them

    When he had 5 months at .714pgp or higher, one month at a 51-point pace and one terrible month, I will look at the majority of the time he played as a top 6 C and not the one month that he did not. content does matter. when playing with full squad and having the benefit of kaprizov - that helps boost productivity. but when asked to lead among injuries - his production stumbled. so you evaluate him by giving more emphasis to where he struggled. that will give you better understanding to see if he can lead. we are not looking for a 3rd/4th line player - we are looking for a top 6 player. and one who can step in now to help us win now. he did not do that. he can still work out for some one else who is not on our trajectory. but not with us. our road ahead should align with Kap (who is currently in his prime) and not Rossi's, thus meaning we need to make moves for the now and that requires top 6 help. we gave Rossi his audition for top 6 and he failed. 

    Whether I believe he was "MIA" in the first two games to me is irrelevant.  Too small of a sample size for me to judge him either way.  I don't believe I can say he isn't a playoff performer from some games where he was "MIA", just like I don't believe I can say he is because he scored 3 points in games 3 and 4.  He may or may not be in the future.  Boldy had 1 g in his first playoff series in 6 games and zero goals and 3 assists in his next playoff series in 6 games.  He got older, matured and was one of our best this year.  how do i get this across to you.....we are not a day care business, we try to WIN a cup. we have the best player in the world and our window is now. we do not have time to wait and see on Rossi.

    Never said there was anything incorrect about that.  Doesn't prove he is or isn't a playoff performer. look at the one who drove the play, worked his ass off, battled in the board and set up an easy shot, that is what i'd take. even if its an assist over a goal. that would have been awesome. but Rossi does not have that. so there is more to it than just goals and stats. 

    I am not good enough at analyzing a hockey game to say that this was the worst game of his life, that may be your opinion.  why not? haven't you seen rossi at his peak? can you not compare the Rossi from Jan to now? can you not be objective with your assessment? why are you not good enough to analyze a game and a player? isn't that what we do here all the time?

    Even if you believe that Rossi was MIA in games and played the worst game of his life in game 6, was he the only reason we did not win the series? it's a team game, each player contributed some good and some bad. not one player made us loose the series. but how is this relevant?

    I know other players had bad games and had bad plays throughout the series that hurt us.  again who cares about other players? it's like a kids plea "but Franky's dad bought him a scooter, and i want one" who cares? we are discussing Rossi

    Ek had zero shots on goal in game 6, zero hits, was less than 50% on the draw, and fanned on two shots that he easily could have scored on.  Ek was injured from head to toe and he does many other things that Rossi refuses to do. So not sure why bring Ek into this. You seem to be stock on stats only analysis - and that is a flawed/incomplete method i keep telling you. 

    Nyquist's offside in game 5 was a killer.  Nyquist is GONE, we don't need to worry about him. 

    Kaps turnover on the PP in game 5 that led to a shorthanded goal.  and? do we want to trade him like some fools on this site keep posting?

    Midds on the OT goal where we win the faceoff and he whiffs on the pass.  Boldy same issue on a failed clear on the PK that led to a goal.  again - you are missing the point - we are talking specifically on Rossi. 

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    1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

    The player that Rossi reminds of the most is Mikael Granlund, both in size and skill. Rossi is off to a better start in his career and will likely end up being a better player. Rossi isn't much smaller than Kaprizov and will continue to grow and bulk up with age. He is only going to get better.

    I think the demotion was to devalue him so he accepts their low ball offer (which would be an odd decision if they plan on trading him). He deserves Boldy money in today's dollars because Boldy is now underpaid (we'll see how long he stays content). I think $7M for at least five years is fair and I bet the Wild will not offer a penny over $6M. Guerin is probably so butt hurt that Rossi rejected $5M, that may be the final nail for him here. It's obvious Guerin only likes players in his image because he's trying to live his 'old time hockey' fantasy.

    I think the demotion was to devalue him  the demotion was due to his play. rossi was rightfully demoted and hartman was rightfully promoted. there is no conspiracy. 

     

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    18 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    I think the demotion was to devalue him  the demotion was due to his play. rossi was rightfully demoted and hartman was rightfully promoted. there is no conspiracy. 

     

    What conspiracy? He was statistically the second best center during the playoffs. He was paired with two neanderthals, played the least amount of minutes and still produced. Kaprizov and Boldy never have slumps, do they. Obviously you're in the camp that has some unfounded grudge against him. Have no fear, Billy will trade him for another old, slow vet that is "good in the playoffs". He'll more than likely throw in draft picks because he hates youth and building from within.

    Hartman 2 4 6 17:26

    Ek 0 3 3 21:59

    Rossi 2 1 3 11:07

    Gaudreau 0 0 0 14:27

     

     

     

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    3 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

    What conspiracy? He was statistically the second best center during the playoffs. He was paired with two neanderthals, played the least amount of minutes and still produced. Kaprizov and Boldy never have slumps, do they. Obviously you're in the camp that has some unfounded grudge against him. Have no fear, Billy will trade him for another old, slow vet that is "good in the playoffs". He'll more than likely throw in draft picks because he hates youth and building from within.

    Hartman 2 4 6 17:26

    Ek 0 3 3 21:59

    Rossi 2 1 3 11:07

    Gaudreau 0 0 0 14:27

     

     

     

    another one dimensional view, congrats!

    you know there are other ways to judge a players' worth?

    by your comparison Ek = Rossi.....yeap enough said

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    1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

    another one dimensional view, congrats!

    you know there are other ways to judge a players' worth?

    by your comparison Ek = Rossi.....yeap enough said

    Yep, sure did. Top line, twice as much TOI, same performance. Goals win games, not grit. Are you related to Guerin or something or just have his DNA on your lips?

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    17 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

    Yep, sure did. Top line, twice as much TOI, same performance. Goals win games, not grit. Are you related to Guerin or something or just have his DNA on your lips?

    wow you really did mean it! thankfully i think billy values Ek's true worth to the team and i share his opinion. 

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    7 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

    wow you really did mean it! thankfully i think billy values Ek's true worth to the team and i share his opinion. 

    How did you spin this into Ek OR Rossi? Whatever.

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    Rossi's future is bright. If the Wild trade Rossi, it is because they can get a more established great player in return. Whether he can elevate to a Marchand player is a legit question, but he's already a quality player who can help teams win.

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