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  • The Wild Can't Let Perfect Be the Enemy Of the Good With Rossi


    Image courtesy of Rick Osentoski-USA TODAY Sports
    Tony Abbott

    There's a familiar axiom that goes something like, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good." Most people can relate to it. You can spend days, weeks, months, and even years endlessly tinkering with something that's good, all in the name of getting it perfect. Maybe getting something perfect is necessary. But more often than not, the time spent attaining perfection offers diminishing returns, and that's if perfection is possible to begin with. Most of the time, good works really well and saves you unnecessary time, energy, and stress. 

    We're seeing credible reports that the Wild may trade 20-goal-scoring rookie Marco Rossi this summer. Perhaps very soon, with Michael Russo mentioning on May 28's "Worst Seats in the House" Podcast, "that [this] month, at a minimum, Marco Rossi is being dangled out there" in trade talks. The biggest reason for this is that, it appears, perfect is the enemy of good. They could have Rossi at center, but what if they had a bigger, stronger player there instead? 

    The Wild might be able to get the kind of player they're looking for, but that's a risky proposition when the team has a dependable, 20-goal, 40-point, 22-year-old center in Rossi. That's not just "good," It's one of the only times the Wild have had that situation at center in franchise history. Look at the centers the team has developed in their 20-plus-year history, and the list is two: Mikko Koivu and Joel Eriksson Ek.

    Minnesota doesn't even get to settle for "good," but they're apparently willing to jettison that to chase "perfect." 

    It's a frustrating proposition in itself, but it's compounded whenever those close to the team explain what, exactly, Minnesota isn't getting in Rossi. The answers are easily disproven, contradictory, or bizarre, and the discussion on that episode of "Worst Seats in the House" highlights each flaw to the criticisms.

    (Editor's Note: Before continuing -- it's worth acknowledging that the following commentary from, specifically, Russo and Ryan Carter, are attempting to offer insight into the front office's thinking and not necessarily their own opinions. The following will be approaching these as the Wild's brass' likely views and not trying to pin these as the personal opinions of any media personality.)

    The driving critique might be whether or not he's a top-six center or not, in their eyes. "Is he a future No. 1 or No. 2 line center, or is he a third-line center on a good team?" Russo asked. "I'll bet you that is what's going through the mind of the Wild organization. Maybe they're just not trusting... that he has a spot in that top-six."

    Minnesota's answer to this conundrum will perhaps be trading Rossi. Wrong answer. The correct response is: Who cares? If Rossi's upside is that of a third-line center on a good team, congrats: They've found their third-line center! If the club believes Rossi is a third-line center on a "good team" and foresees Danila Yurov or Riley Heidt leap-frogging Rossi on the depth chart, then what's the problem here? The Wild would see Rossi as a third-line center on a good, contending team, and they'd have the depth to put him in that ideal position. 

    That would be great news for Minnesota, whose goal, presumably, is to be... a good team! The stereotype of a Third-Line Center is unglamorous and undervalued. People hear that term and think of a low-scoring forward banging against the other team's more physical players. It's much more crucial than that, at least, for the good teams with depth at center.

    All you have to do is look at the good teams that made the Stanley Cup Final. Who is the Edmonton Oilers third-line center? Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, the former No. 1 overall pick. Nugent-Hopkins isn't a typical "bottom-six" type of player, and calling him a "third-line center" underscores how much Edmonton uses him. At 5-on-5 play (removing special teams from the equation), "RNH" is fifth among Oilers forwards in time on ice per game. He's a "bottom-six" forward on paper, but in reality, he's eating "top-six" amounts of minutes.

    Look across to the Florida Panthers, who represent the Eastern Conference in the Cup Final, and there's Anton Lundell. You'll find Lundell as the third-line center on anyone's line charts, but is he a "bottom-six" forward in practice? Nope. Lundell is fifth in even-strength time on ice for the Panthers. We're not in the days of a third-line center being a one-way, Kyle Brodziak-type player anymore.

    That's to say, if the Wild see Rossi as a third-line center on a good team, that is a spot that is probably the fifth-most valuable forward role on the team. Why give that up to try finding greener pastures? If you have a 22-year-old who can hold that position, keep them and build around that.

    Looking to trade a valuable player because he "only" fills their fifth-most important need is baffling enough, but Carter's assessment of the situation is even more confounding. Carter is a former Wild player who broadcasts with Bally Sports North and hosts the team-affiliated "Wild on 7th" Podcast. While not part of the decision-making group, one can assume some familiarity with the team's thinking, being close to the team.

    Attempting to explain what shortcomings Rossi might have that would make him expendable, Carter explains, "Coming out of the draft, I think the Wild felt they were getting a real puck-mover, distributor-type player, where he's going to play up the middle and give the puck to the scorers on the flank. And I don't think Rossi has turned out to be that. We're talking about him being a 20-goal scorer.

    "And give him credit, he put weight on in the summer, and he's able to produce goals," Carter continued. "To me, it looks like he watched game tape of Eriksson Ek, and he's turning into a smaller version of Eriksson Ek, where he scores his goals in the paint. But you don't see a lot of distributors of the puck scoring in the paint. They play on the perimeter, they find space, they know passing lines. Rossi might have that skill, but that's not what they're getting at the moment."

    Carter concludes that the issue is a matter of fit rather than necessarily skill. "He's not their 15-to-20-goal-scorer, 60-assist type of guy. I think that was maybe the upside for Rossi on draft day. And what does Matt Boldy need on the second line? A true puck-mover, someone who can make plays and find him to score the goals. Is Rossi that?... He's different from what they thought they were getting."

    If those thoughts reflect the Wild's approach to Rossi, that should raise alarm bells for Wild fans. It's letting perfect be the enemy of good. 

    Despite all of the Wild's apparent hand-wringing over Rossi's size, they have a player who gets to the net regularly (and without missing a game in 2023-24) and plays similarly to Eriksson Ek, their No. 1 center. He takes matters into his own hands by going to the greasy areas to score goals and doesn't stay out of the fray on the perimeter.

    And this is all... a bad fit? How?

    Look through as many scouting reports as you'd like, for as long as you'd like. You won't find one that criticizes a smaller player for not being on the perimeter enough. Or even a larger player -- look at how long the team has begged Boldy to play the way Rossi does! In the hockey world, it's almost universally a criticism -- or at least a limitation -- to note that someone is a "perimeter player." Except, maybe, when the Wild are looking at Rossi and considering his future with the team. 

    If the Wild are disappointed that Rossi has fashioned himself into an Eriksson Ek clone or that he doesn't play, say, Marcus Johansson's perimeter game, it's patently absurd. A GM should be willing to trade members of their immediate families to land a 22-year-old Eriksson Ek-caliber center. Behind any forward who racks up 60 assists on less than 20 goals is a coach that'd reach into their pocket to pay the player twice their salary if they got to the net occasionally.

    If any of this reflects why Minnesota would dangle Rossi on the trade market, it reads as "It's not you, it's me" levels of break-up excuse-making. The Wild are still in a decades-long center drought. But they finally have a young, productive center and are apparently disappointed with having one that didn't quite match the center of their dreams. They have a good thing in Rossi and still have time to ensure they have that good thing into the future. All they have to do is not make perfect the enemy of good.

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    I'm with Will on this. If you want a guy to have 60 assists, then you have to put him with 2 guys who score goals. 

    Why does Rossi score 20 goals? Because he has to play with perimeter players Zuccarello and Johansson. Someone's got to take the middle. Someone's got to score. He sees the need and goes and does it.

    IMO, Zuccarello and Johansson are NOT top 6 players on a good team. Zuccarello is too slow now, and Johansson is just not a good player. They need some guys with shots and bulk who will go to the middle of the ice. 

    I don't think I'd move Rossi unless you're getting a guy who we need. B. Tkachuk fits that bill. Perhaps Mason McTavish does too. I'm sure there are a few others, and we would have to give up a lot on paper besides Rossi. 

    For the record, though, I still would have taken Lundell at 9 in that draft.

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    Is Shooter dangling Rossi as a conversation starter? Maybe he's just trying to make a deal. I'm hoping it's not just any deal. 

    Or, is Shooter simply listening to people to gauge interest? He must have been a bear last season while we were losing! Could part of that have been he was disappointed in the guys he believed in?

    I've got a feeling that these guys he went out on a limb for had better produce early or fear getting jettisoned. They're not all on NMCs.

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    Ok I’ll say it again -

    it’s NOT about Rossi, it’s about Kaprizov and getting the team to another level NOW 

    this cannot be status quo scenario playing out for the next 2 years. if Rossi has value then he can be sacrificed to improve the team in more immediate future

    your whole argument doesn’t take into account the current state of the team and the urgency they are facing. The number one thing for our GM is to ensure consistency w Kap at the helm, Rossi can be used to prop up the team (as trade piece) and build it better to optimize and  support Kaprizov

    and Rossi may not fall into the above category so you use his inflated value and potentially a prospect and pick and get a better player for the now to successfully fit the above categories

    Edited by OldDutchChip
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    7 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Rossi may not fall into the above category so you use his inflated value and potentially a prospect and pick and get a better player for the now to successfully fit the above categories

    I don't think anyone anticipates Rossi being traded at an inflated value. He had a solid season, but not one that will blow anyone away. Sure, it would be nice to get a guy who is bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled, and in his 20s, but most feel it's unlikely that Guerin will be able to accomplish all of those things by trading Rossi.

    If they include Hunt, Heidt, and a pick, perhaps the return gets more interesting.

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    The Devils are setting their goalie sights higher than Gus I'm sure. They want a Jusse Sarros or a Swayman. Gus will not move the needle for them at all. I doubt they would even be interested in Wallstedt. They want results starting next season. 

    Rossi has no inflated value he has great potential. Something more valuable to the Wild than anyone else right now. That's why I say whatever you get for him would be more of a lateral move. If you have to start packaging one or more of our higher value prospects to make an improvement or to further entice Kaprizov to stay I'm not convinced that's such a good idea. Billy made this bed by poor signings of aging players. They can't be traded because of contract clauses so that has pushed him to try to move one of the most promising of our young prospects. So does Billy know Kaprizov is getting restless?  If so then he is dealing from desperation and that is not where you want to negotiate from. 

    All Billy has accomplished so far is to mess with Rossi's head and confidence. 

     

    Edited by MacGyver
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    Another thing to consider is that MN could need an NHL backup if they traded Gus and they could be looking for a better defenseman. 

    All this don't trade Rossi knee-jerkin is unnecessary. We have no idea. 

    Florida gets OEL on defegolfingnse after lots of people souring on him. Now FL has quietly stacked their roster and they pay 10M+ just on goalies. 

    What if MN traded Rossi in a move for a new top pairing d-man? Depending who it is, or with other transactions maybe it's great? I would like to see the Wild with balance and depth to win. Rossi 100% could be a nice part of that. Guerin is in the spotlight now. If I give Boldy grief for golfing. Guerin should get guff for GMing a National Team. Prestigious title, my ass! Better do good with the Wild.

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    Brad Marchand 5' 9" and 176 pounds

    Year 2 stats. 20 goals, 21 assists

    Marco Rossi 5' 9" and 182 pounds

    Year 2 stats 21 goals, 19 assists.

     

    The Wild should be over the moon about Rossi.  They have never had a player of this caliber at this age at the center position. Give him decent linemates to play with consistently and his stats will only get better.

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    11 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

    For the record, though, I still would have taken Lundell at 9 in that draft.

    And we now know that Guerin & Co would do the same if given another chance

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    1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

    So does Billy know Kaprizov is getting restless?  If so then he is dealing from desperation and that is not where you want to negotiate from. 

    Regardless of 97's thoughts, trading Rossi would be one more unforced error by Guerin so then one has to ask "how many more does he get before he proves he's unqualified for the job". 

    I'm back to thinking (Guerin - NHL career) = Fenton.  Think how crazy that doesn't sound.  If you remove Faber from Guerin's resume because it was possible due to Fenton's moves what has Guerin accomplished beside locking up the apathetic old core, creating cap hell, Middleton, and a couple of NHL/Wild investigations into possible Guerin misconduct, Nojo X2.  That's not much to show for his time in MN.

    I'm not going to give him credit for signing Ek, 97 or Boldy because Nordy could have pulled that off.  Seriously they weren't going anywhere.

    Edited by Pewterschmidt
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    15 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

    Sounds like NJD is willing to trade out of the 10 spot. What would it take to move up 3 spots and would it be worth it?

    Give them Gus. 

    Then yes. 

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    I don't get the whole 'Rossi MUST BE a top-6 center!' line of thinking either. I mean they started him on a 3rd line with Foligno and Gaudreau and he was still putting up some decent production. So clearly he can play that role.

    Ek was once a 3rd line C who has turned into our best C, so why's it a huge deal if Rossi starts down there? At worst, kick Ek back down the lineup then if its such a big deal for Rossi to be a two-way C. 

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    29 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    I'm not going to give him credit for signing Ek, 97 or Boldy because Nordy could have pulled that off.

    I'm not going to give much credit for Kaprizov, but JEE and Boldy are on really good contracts for the Wild, so I'll give him some credit there.

    I agree that much of the talent on this roster was already part of the Wild organization before Guerin started. Faber and Ohgren is looking like a very solid deal for the asset of Fiala, however. Looking forward to seeing Ohgren's impact in a full season with the Wild.

    Yurov should be added next season, and Kaprizov extended, and that's when it will really be time to determine Guerin's impact on the Wild.

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    12 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

    I'm not going to give much credit for Kaprizov, but JEE and Boldy are on really good contracts for the Wild, so I'll give him some credit there.

    I agree that much of the talent on this roster was already part of the Wild organization before Guerin started. Faber and Ohgren is looking like a very solid deal for the asset of Fiala, however. Looking forward to seeing Ohgren's impact in a full season with the Wild.

    Yurov should be added next season, and Kaprizov extended, and that's when it will really be time to determine Guerin's impact on the Wild.

    If 97 leaves when his contract is up (or gets dealt b/c it’s obvious he won’t resign) does Guerin also need to pack his bags?

    #whyalltheGuerinhate

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    Guerin is like a firefighter that starts his own fires so he can rush in to save the family’s dog. 
    Rossi is a great value and a good teammate. A player this talented hasn’t come along since…..Kevin Fiala. 

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    I don't think Guerin's job security is tied completely to whether Kaprizov stays or leaves.  It really depends if the team's record actually craters if he's not there.

    The thing is, I don't think the team as constructed would be as bad as when Gaborik and Burns both left.  The team didn't have playoff success without Kaprizov, didn't with him and Fiala, didn't with him and Boldy/Ek/Faber (yet), and god only knows what the solution actually is.  

    Kaprizov is a great player, but $9m+ buys any replacement player the team would want, AND if a team throws 2-3 mid/later firsts, a prospect or two, or who knows what, yes.  That team makes out.  However, the team makes out better than Gaborik and Burns leaving for Coyle and...whatever else we got back then.

     

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    54 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

    At worst, kick Ek back down the lineup then if its such a big deal for Rossi to be a two-way C. 

    I don't want to break up the top line but we could use GREEF 2.0.  

    I say bring in a quality bruiser C and create another top tier checking line with Foligno.

    Have Rossi C a line with NoJo replaced with ?

    We have many holes but in 25-26, the whole enchilada can be made.

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    3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

    The Devils are setting their goalie sights higher than Gus I'm sure. They want a Jusse Sarros or a Swayman. Gus will not move the needle for them at all. I doubt they would even be interested in Wallstedt. They want results starting next season. 

    Rossi has no inflated value he has great potential. Something more valuable to the Wild than anyone else right now. That's why I say whatever you get for him would be more of a lateral move. If you have to start packaging one or more of our higher value prospects to make an improvement or to further entice Kaprizov to stay I'm not convinced that's such a good idea. Billy made this bed by poor signings of aging players. They can't be traded because of contract clauses so that has pushed him to try to move one of the most promising of our young prospects. So does Billy know Kaprizov is getting restless?  If so then he is dealing from desperation and that is not where you want to negotiate from. 

    All Billy has accomplished so far is to mess with Rossi's head and confidence. 

     

    So three people “loved” this comment. yeap three people basically said they placed more value on Rossi and unproven prospects than their all world superstar. Brilliant!!

    “If you have to start packaging one or more of our higher value prospects to make an improvement or to further entice Kaprizov to stay I'm not convinced that's such a good idea”

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    23 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

    I hope Rossi scores 25 next year and forces Guerin to pay him and eat crow.

    Obviously, this sounds like a "if anyone we really want is there, sure...but 20-25 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

     

    25 goals and 14 assists for amazing 39 pts

    So pretty much like Hartman but w more power play time and less responsibility to rough it up

    Got it! Untouchable indeed

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    1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Burns leaving for Coyle and...whatever else we got back then.

    Zack Phillips who never saw an NHL shift.  This is an example of why trading proven NHL players for can't miss prospects is not a guarantee of a like for like trade.  

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    8 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    Zack Phillips who never saw an NHL shift.  This is an example of why trading proven NHL players for can't miss prospects is not a guarantee of a like for like trade.  

    Exactly! Ooooh Zach Phillips 

    also sorry for multiple posts, I’m in Oregon “wilderness” right now 

     

     

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    14 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

    Or, is Shooter simply listening to people to gauge interest? He must have been a bear last season while we were losing!

    Yeah, there was an investigation about it and everything. 

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    3 hours ago, Patrick said:

    Brad Marchand 5' 9" and 176 pounds

    Year 2 stats. 20 goals, 21 assists

    Marco Rossi 5' 9" and 182 pounds

    Year 2 stats 21 goals, 19 assists.

     

    The Wild should be over the moon about Rossi.  They have never had a player of this caliber at this age at the center position. Give him decent linemates to play with consistently and his stats will only get better.

    I know Wyatt Johnston is younger (but Rossi had that setback/lost year, too), but look at what Johnston did as a rookie, his leap forward this year, then look at Rossi's year. Hell, on top of that, remember that Rossi had at least three goals waived off because Marcus Foligno can't stop being offside or in the crease.

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    3 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    Regardless of 97's thoughts, trading Rossi would be one more unforced error by Guerin so then one has to ask "how many more does he get before he proves he's unqualified for the job". 

    I'm back to thinking (Guerin - NHL career) = Fenton.  Think how crazy that doesn't sound.  If you remove Faber from Guerin's resume because it was possible due to Fenton's moves what has Guerin accomplished beside locking up the apathetic old core, creating cap hell, Middleton, and a couple of NHL/Wild investigations into possible Guerin misconduct, Nojo X2.  That's not much to show for his time in MN.

    I'm not going to give him credit for signing Ek, 97 or Boldy because Nordy could have pulled that off.  Seriously they weren't going anywhere.

    You don't even have to remove Faber if you want to make this analogy. Faber's Guerin's Fiala.

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