The Wild Are Still Trying To Break Into the Western Conference Elite

Gaunce, Jones and Shore playing multiple games for the Wild demonstrate how terrible the Wild prospect pool really is and how pathetic the management in Iowa is at developing talent. This is the best three we could call up for multiple weeks? All the injuries provided a opportunity for the top prospects to shine in the NHL. Instead, the Wild choose to roll out a bunch of no talent washed up veterans to fill the space in the 4th line. 

We are to small down the middle and need a shakeup

Boldy, Rossi, Ohgren and a pick or another prospect for Thompson and Tuch.  Would do this as well for B Tkchuck but not sure if they will listen.

Then go get Brock Nelson at the deadline.

Also need to find a way to get Spurgeon off the books to use his contract for a couple bigger DMen

this is the shakeup this team needs and what Billy should be trying to do.  This team sucks the way it’s constructed.  Take a big swing at it.

25 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

This team sucks the way it’s constructed.  Take a big swing at it.

I like the direction the team is going.  Brodin is only 31 and has 4 to 6 really good years remaining under his belt.  We then have Mid, Faber, Zeev, Chisholm, Jiricek for a very good D-core for years to come.

We are out performing at 5v5 already.  We also have some young forwards that should fill our roster nicely. 

IMO:  I think the article is spot on.  We have a PK issue.  I view this as a coaching issue, not a player issue. 

Why?   We have had lots of players go through this PK and it has failed no matter who is on the ice.  It has been ongoing for 3 years.  Coaches need to be better.  We are being out coached in special teams.

The team can play and win, but not when injured or sloppy.  Stop worrying about "winning now.". Just be glad they are 5th-10th all season and only looked like shit recently.

They don't have to vault teams like last year.  They just can't let losing streaks happen either.

The season isn't for naught, but be realistic.  The team has a lopsided focus.  I believe it is a personnel issue that shouldn't come at the cost of future success.

The rush to win now and fix the now is what made stupid trades like Hanzal happen.  If a no-brainer offer happens, fine, but the fact the Wild only have stinkers games 1/3 or 1/4 of the time, and can comeback or stay tied with just about anyone is encouraging.

You want facts? Boldy is good, but not Kaprizov good.  Rossi is the best offensive center they have.  Ek is hurt and is nowhere the offensive player he was last year.  Hartman is not anywhere near what he should be (.22 PPG).  There is a Mojo sized hole in the top six that won't be fixed or Guerin would have done that by now.  The AHL depth has been about as ineffectual as last season.  They DON'T have money to throw at their problems.  They have and should keep Kap and Rossi and get addition by subtraction in due time when they can afford it.

If no-brainer trades come, they come.  But don't expect it to fix glaring red flags either.  The team caught lucky breaks.  Don't confuse that for being world beaters.  Winnipeg, Dallas, LA have the year in year out track record to bust their balls to win now.  The Wild haven't for a decade.  Take progress for what it is and enjoy the ride.

Boldy is not good right now period. Drop him back with Trenin and Foligno and have him be a 3rd liner for a bit. Get him to embrace north and south game and the physicality. 

Reward Marat and move him up and play him with someone with skill and speed. 

I actually want Kap out of action tomorrow again as i want to see Rossi and Boldy bringing it big time. Split them up and see how they react. If not - boot Boldy to 3rd. 

i think we loose tomorrow.

"Reward Marat and move him up and play him with someone with skill and speed. "

Oh for fuck sake, just give this up already.

Rossi: 12-17-29, +12 (.78 PPG)

Ek: 5-8-13, +9 (.57 PPG)

Gaudreau: 7-9-16, +3 (.43 PPG)

Hartman: 4-3-7, -9 (.22 PPG)

Khusnutdinov: 1-3-4, -2 (.12 PPG)

He's probably about a better bet right now than Hartman, but I'm sorry.  Khusnutdinov gets a point every 10th game.  He's not, and may never be, an offensive guy.  Gaudreau at least had that hot streak earlier this season to justify, "Hmm, maybe there could be something if an injury happens."  And play with speed guys?  Lauko is one of the fastest guys on the roster and they don't do shit on 4th line.  The best they can do is make people pay on the PK.

It's one thing to keep harping on Rossi as a trade chip, but you seriously overvalue what Khusnutdinov could or should be based on, "He might be kinda fast."

You know who is also "kinda fast?" Marcus Johansson.  And I'd even take him over Khusnutdinov in an offensive role.  Hynes hasn't used him in that kind of a role for a reason.  That .12 PPG doesn't exactly scream useful offensive producer.

26 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

"Reward Marat and move him up and play him with someone with skill and speed. "

Oh for fuck sake, just give this up already.

 

Rossi: 12-17-29, +12 (.78 PPG)

Ek: 5-8-13, +9 (.57 PPG)

Gaudreau: 7-9-16, +3 (.43 PPG)

Hartman: 4-3-7, -9 (.22 PPG)

Khusnutdinov: 1-3-4, -2 (.12 PPG)

 

He's probably about a better bet right now than Hartman, but I'm sorry.  Khusnutdinov gets a point every 10th game.  He's not, and may never be, an offensive guy.  Gaudreau at least had that hot streak earlier this season to justify, "Hmm, maybe there could be something if an injury happens."  And play with speed guys?  Lauko is one of the fastest guys on the roster and they don't do shit on 4th line.  The best they can do is make people pay on the PK.

It's one thing to keep harping on Rossi as a trade chip, but you seriously overvalue what Khusnutdinov could or should be based on, "He might be kinda fast."

You know who is also "kinda fast?" Marcus Johansson.  And I'd even take him over Khusnutdinov in an offensive role.  Hynes hasn't used him in that kind of a role for a reason.  That .12 PPG doesn't exactly scream useful offensive producer.

 

Oh fuck off

marat is playing with players that should never dress in nhl uniform so him scoring a goal is a miracle! And you little fuck basing this on points too?  That’s brilliant! Fuck off

You taking MJ over Marat shows what kind of hockey brain you have, again fuck off

 and yes - Fuck off

see no one cares if you insult people here!

since everyone is doing it to me, I think it’s time to let loose! 🍻 

Not exactly the response and focus on certain words I was expecting...so whatever.

When you're saying "speed and skill" and yet dogging me for bringing up points as the metric, what exactly ARE you after then?  Skill players play on top lines either to balance out things so skill players can focus on scoring without the defensive worry, or because their passing, shooting, and overall game speed gives them an edge in the offensive zone.

So, which is it?  Do you want Khusnutdinov just sitting there waiting for things to happen, or defend players, so other people can score?  Then what exactly is he doing that Rossi is (quite clearly) already better at?

I haven't said Khusnutdinov is a waste of space player.  What I am saying is he has done very little than do what he's been asked to do: play sheltered minutes but keep screw ups to a bare minimum.  That's what he's been told to do.  If Hynes or Guerin thought he'd be a better fit on the 1st or 2nd line...don't you think he would have been given that already?  The best he's done is be a speedy balancing act for Foligno and Trenin.  Again, "defensively sound, smart decision maker, doesn't try to rock the boat."

He's good enough to be better than the AHL callups, and had done "enough" to not embarrass himself.  But he's had 60-70 some games to show improvements.  I'm not exactly seeing much more than what we were sold: a 4th line guy.  He was meant to be Dewar's replacement.  A younger, cheaper defensive guy.  Wanting him or thinking he'll be more than that is not our job: that's Hynes's job.

Wanting Khusnutdinov, Sam Steel, or Victor Rask to become Connor McDavid isn't going to happen just cause we want it to.

Note: I'm only angry because it seems to be a sticking point that you've brought up for weeks.  The "Adam Beckman should be given 2nd line opportunities" thing all over again.  Hynes and Guerin know way, WAY more about a player than we ever will.  And given that Hynes has led a team no one expected anything from to Top 5-10 status halfway through the season...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here.

8 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Not exactly the response and focus on certain words I was expecting...so whatever.

When you're saying "speed and skill" and yet dogging me for bringing up points as the metric, what exactly ARE you after then?  Skill players play on top lines either to balance out things so skill players can focus on scoring without the defensive worry, or because their passing, shooting, and overall game speed gives them an edge in the offensive zone.

So, which is it?  Do you want Khusnutdinov just sitting there waiting for things to happen, or defend players, so other people can score?  Then what exactly is he doing that Rossi is (quite clearly) already better at?

I haven't said Khusnutdinov is a waste of space player.  What I am saying is he has done very little than do what he's been asked to do: play sheltered minutes but keep screw ups to a bare minimum.  That's what he's been told to do.  If Hynes or Guerin thought he'd be a better fit on the 1st or 2nd line...don't you think he would have been given that already?  The best he's done is be a speedy balancing act for Foligno and Trenin.  Again, "defensively sound, smart decision maker, doesn't try to rock the boat."

He's good enough to be better than the AHL callups, and had done "enough" to not embarrass himself.  But he's had 60-70 some games to show improvements.  I'm not exactly seeing much more than what we were sold: a 4th line guy.  He was meant to be Dewar's replacement.  A younger, cheaper defensive guy.  Wanting him or thinking he'll be more than that is not our job: that's Hynes's job.

Wanting Khusnutdinov, Sam Steel, or Victor Rask to become Connor McDavid isn't going to happen just cause we want it to.

i may have been too harsh there but a combo of getting some snappy comments my way from many and not getting fries with my meals for the kids has drove me a bit mad. not going to drive back for the fries but they are like 4 bucks each. and the idiots forgot pickles too and now i am hearing it from spoiled kids. fuck.

ok so sorry

back to Marat - i've observed him and watched the film from khl and he does have the tools needed to succeed higher in the line up. points is not the way to judge him - he is not sam steel nor is he victor rask - both of whom have very little skill and almost no speed. marat in my opinion has the best motor on the team and the skills that are somewhat hidden  on the 4th line of cast offs that we are forced to play with - i'd throw him in and give him a chance. why not? you think he'll do worse than harty or boldy? i think he scored as many goals as both of them during the last 20 games and played with who knows who. 

demote boldy and promote Marat. 

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

Note: I'm only angry because it seems to be a sticking point that you've brought up for weeks.  The "Adam Beckman should be given 2nd line opportunities" thing all over again.  Hynes and Guerin know way, WAY more about a player than we ever will.  And given that Hynes has led a team no one expected anything from to Top 5-10 status halfway through the season...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here.

we can also look at it as Hynes trusting Marat more than others and playing him (although with limited minutes) with some of the worse players in NHL. Marat knows the role and gives it his all to limit opposition's scoring chances (as oppose to becky who was all offense), while trying to create something (again while not sacrificing the Defense aspect of what he has been instructed to do....very successful i think all things considering) 

4 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Marat

A. LaPanta mentioned on a WSITH podcast that Wild management wants and expects a lot more from MK. AL spoke directly, with conviction. It kinda surprised me actually because he doesn’t divulge a ton of details about players in general. In addition to getting elevated opportunities when appropriate I’d like to see MK working on his puck handling skills with a coaching specialist or something. He’s far from a finished product. Let’s hope he can hit his ceiling. 

5 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

I believe it is a personnel issue

What is your best guess as to how much time we’re looking at to address the holes in the lineup? I keep thinking 2027. That’s assuming a lot of things develop favorably. We’ve gotten past the “let’s tank” talk. But where we go from here seems like a hot topic. 

1 hour ago, Burnt Toast said:

A. LaPanta mentioned on a WSITH podcast that Wild management wants and expects a lot more from MK. AL spoke directly, with conviction. It kinda surprised me actually because he doesn’t divulge a ton of details about players in general. In addition to getting elevated opportunities when appropriate I’d like to see MK working on his puck handling skills with a coaching specialist or something. He’s far from a finished product. Let’s hope he can hit his ceiling. 

LaPanta is an idiot. Maybe they should demand more from Boldy. 

Yes, Marat is still developing, and has the skills and speed and motor and passion and fire. Do not mess it up Billy. Next year he will be a monster, if handled right. 

23 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Maybe they should demand more from Boldy. 

Well if BG mentioned MB being a 50g 50a guy that bar’s already been set. 

You have to be smart and see the right people grow into the proper roles in time.  If we take into account how quickly the team took to Hynes's 5on5 system, that's half the problem already solved.  The team still lacks in some areas though.

- Top six wingers/centers of 60-80 pt. standard (can't be solved until MJ is gone, but he has NMC)...so let's say late this year, early next year.  Right now, Kaprizov, Rossi, Boldy, and Zuccarello are those.  But Zuccarello needs replacing in a year.  Ek should be that, but he's been hurt all year.

- A complementary offensive defenseman for Faber (they are hoping Buium is that guy).  It also helps that Middleton was a surprisingly good option until he got hurt.  But that stuff takes so damn long.

- Overall team youth and size. You may not see it, but the team IS getting younger ever so slightly.  But the Wild has been smart in taking only those who have made really good strides on early (Boldy, Faber, Rossi).  Ohgren could have been next.  People like Chisholm and Khusnutdinov have become mainstays in the lower lineup too.  It's possible people like Ohgren, Stramel, and Kumpulainen take Foligno and Trenin's roles, but it is way too early to get a sense for that.

Kaprizov and Gus playing out of their minds has accelerated a lot of things.  But the team has to slough off things the right way.  However, if you can sign Kap, you signal "this team is going to a be force at a certain level for years to come."  Rossi and Gus should be the next ones.  We can bank on the Buium's, Yurovs, etc. all we want, but they have to prove that stuff here, with these players, not in some fantasy far off land somewhere.  But, there is a framework in place to get rid of Hartman, Foligno, Trenin, Gaudreau with younger guys on the cheap.  It just wasn't gonna happen overnight.  

I give things 1-2 more years.  If there's no tangible evidence the team is as good offensively to not force relying on the defensive structure to win, then that is a failure.  A few years ago, the team was lopsided to win via crazy offense and no defensive structure.  This year is the opposite.  Nothing happens in a vacuum.  You need both to succeed.  

To follow up my point, we can hype, and hype, and hype all we want.  But we can't make players into things they are not.

Heidt? left in the dust in open ice and a non-factor in preseason.  He would have been eaten alive if he was given a spot.

Ohgren? Given his chance but pulled a 2022 Rossi and was invisible.  He's no longer invisible and will get a chance to prove it again later, but that's "later." He wasn't good enough to lace anyone else's boots right now.

Spacek, Masters, Lambos, Hunt? locked out by circumstance.  When a castoff like Bogo comes in an beats the pants off an Addison, and a waiver wire option like Chisholm shows flashes of a higher standard...such is life.  Jiricek is a potential Spurgeon or Middleton replacement.  That's a flier for down the road.  I'll take a 20 year old risky play over an $8m Trouba or 35-year old Fowler though.  Jiricek has room to grow without the fear of the wheels falling off.

But the Wild have limited options.  But NMCs turn into NTCs.  NMCs turn into lighter loads or tradeable depth assets.  But trying to fix the problem of, "We have no money" is not my problem.  It's not something you can just trade off.  The Wild are still in a tightrope.  I prefer the tightrope have somewhere to land instead of a pit of glass and blood if it doesn't work.

It seems if the pp and pk aren't working and you keep putting (mostly) the same lineups out your are exemplifying the definition of insanity. I don't know who to move but two complete line switches might open some eyes and get feet moving. If you can score five on five, then there is absolutely no reason you can't when up a man.

9 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

Well if BG mentioned MB being a 50g 50a guy that bar’s already been set. 

the bar may be set but boldy is not meeting that and is in a bit of a slump. and if our second best player  can't score, what use is he? get him to 3rd line and re-energize him.

8 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

You have to be smart and see the right people grow into the proper roles in time.  If we take into account how quickly the team took to Hynes's 5on5 system, that's half the problem already solved.  The team still lacks in some areas though.

- Top six wingers/centers of 60-80 pt. standard (can't be solved until MJ is gone, but he has NMC)...so let's say late this year, early next year.  Right now, Kaprizov, Rossi, Boldy, and Zuccarello are those.  But Zuccarello needs replacing in a year.  Ek should be that, but he's been hurt all year.

- A complementary offensive defenseman for Faber (they are hoping Buium is that guy).  It also helps that Middleton was a surprisingly good option until he got hurt.  But that stuff takes so damn long.

- Overall team youth and size. You may not see it, but the team IS getting younger ever so slightly.  But the Wild has been smart in taking only those who have made really good strides on early (Boldy, Faber, Rossi).  Ohgren could have been next.  People like Chisholm and Khusnutdinov have become mainstays in the lower lineup too.  It's possible people like Ohgren, Stramel, and Kumpulainen take Foligno and Trenin's roles, but it is way too early to get a sense for that.

Kaprizov and Gus playing out of their minds has accelerated a lot of things.  But the team has to slough off things the right way.  However, if you can sign Kap, you signal "this team is going to a be force at a certain level for years to come."  Rossi and Gus should be the next ones.  We can bank on the Buium's, Yurovs, etc. all we want, but they have to prove that stuff here, with these players, not in some fantasy far off land somewhere.  But, there is a framework in place to get rid of Hartman, Foligno, Trenin, Gaudreau with younger guys on the cheap.  It just wasn't gonna happen overnight.  

I give things 1-2 more years.  If there's no tangible evidence the team is as good offensively to not force relying on the defensive structure to win, then that is a failure.  A few years ago, the team was lopsided to win via crazy offense and no defensive structure.  This year is the opposite.  Nothing happens in a vacuum.  You need both to succeed.  

 

You have to be smart and see the right people grow into the proper roles in time.  Should Kap be signed already to an extension - that would be fine. Unfortunately, he isn't and proceeding is normal is just not in the cards. We are polar opposite in thinking this - your preach slow and patience while i claim that it is not the right play given that Kap needs a focus on the now. Time will/may tell.

- Top six wingers/centers of 60-80 pt. standard (can't be solved until MJ is gone, but he has NMC).. sure they could - this aligns with my approach - using some of the prospects and/or Rossi to bring someone in this trade deadline so let's say late this year, early next year.  Right now, Kaprizov, Rossi, Boldy, and Zuccarello are those.  But Zuccarello needs replacing in a year.  Ek should be that, but he's been hurt all year. Ek is not the same player as Zuccy and not the same person as Zuccy and both are important. Moreover - I think Zuccy as a person means more to Kap than Zuccy as a player. 

- A complementary offensive defenseman for Faber (they are hoping Buium is that guy).  It also helps that Middleton was a surprisingly good option until he got hurt.  But that stuff takes so damn long. ok

- Overall team youth and size. You may not see it, but the team IS getting younger ever so slightly.  yes they are getting younger and youth bring growing pains and unknowns. Kap does not fit that timeline. He is at his peak. Can he win now or is he going to sign up as a babysitter to another round of MN great prospects? 

But the Wild has been smart in taking only those who have made really good strides on early (Boldy, Faber, Rossi).  Ohgren could have been next.  People like Chisholm and Khusnutdinov have become mainstays in the lower lineup too.  It's possible people like Ohgren, Stramel, and Kumpulainen take Foligno and Trenin's roles, but it is way too early to get a sense for that. That is all well and good but none of them are priority number 1 and that is Kap. Who needs to win now. Whether or not Kumpulainen or Stramel plays one NHL game means very little. 

Kaprizov and Gus playing out of their minds has accelerated a lot of things.  But the team has to slough off things the right way.  No, just no. There is no one way to do things. Has a great goalie done wonders for a team in the POs? Yes. Wild have that in Gus. That is not a sure thing next year. Do they have a good D? Yes, again another unknown with more rookies and aging. Do they have a star that needs support to drive winning? Yes - so how does Kumpulainen and Stramel and Rossi and Zeev and Yurov help us? They are sacrificial lambs - they will not all be great and may not all even play. Again - 6 years of no PO success and continuous injection of youth and all that it brings vs trading that youth uncertainty towards the now to align with Kap's timeline......

However, if you can sign Kap, you signal "this team is going to a be force at a certain level for years to come."  Rossi and Gus should be the next ones.  We can bank on the Buium's, Yurovs, etc. all we want, but they have to prove that stuff here, with these players, not in some fantasy far off land somewhere.  But, there is a framework in place to get rid of Hartman, Foligno, Trenin, Gaudreau with younger guys on the cheap.  It just wasn't gonna happen overnight.  If you can sign Kap. Kap bonded with Zuccy, he bonded with Foligno and Gaudreah, and Harty and all these players. Will he sign up for another 6 year run without all these players? Without experiencing any playoff success? Without the bond and friendship of Zuccy? BUT with new rookies? At the age of 28! Having a chance to finally pick a team, i'd wager Wild's route will not be that appealing. 

I give things 1-2 more years.  You have 1-2 month. If Wild backtrack and bow out of the PO in round 1 or miss PO entirely - no way Kap signs in July. And that is a fact. 

2 hours ago, Fezig said:

It seems if the pp and pk aren't working and you keep putting (mostly) the same lineups out your are exemplifying the definition of insanity. I don't know who to move but two complete line switches might open some eyes and get feet moving. If you can score five on five, then there is absolutely no reason you can't when up a man.

What's odd to me is we started the year out with really good PP. We also went on a tear where the PK went something like 18 in a row. Not sure if its teams having the answer to our system or what. 

Thinking the Wild can topple Winnipeg, LA, and Dallas with a move or two?  LA has just as good a defensive structure, and proven star talent.  Winnipeg has a better goalie.  Dallas is a tough out even if they play like shit compared to last year.  You throw out a Rossi, a Faber, or godforbid a Boldy, you just have to replace them all over again.  It's way easier to replace a Zuccarello or Spurgeon who is aging out than people in their early-20s.

The Wild aren't blowing teams out.  You really want to blow a hole in the foundation that could run 3-5 years to get some guys who may leave in 20 games?  You do know that if the Wild don't keep their good players, other teams will gladly take them and use them better.  Tell me what team will take Hartman, Foligno, Trenin, etc off our hands just to get Rossi?  And for what players? I'd love you to tell me what team wants to take on Spurgeon's $7.5m for another season or two, or Brodin's $6m for 3-4 seasons.  Both are an injury or a couple years away from being ineffectual.  Brodin has already been an injury risk this season.

If Ottawa said Tkachuk is off the table BEFORE their winning streak, what sense would it make now they are back in the playoff race?  Tuch or Nelson would be easier gets, but I'm not about to throw away a 60-point player to make that happen.  Cause Rossi has 3-4 years on them to get just as good or better.

But excuse me for thinking cautiously.  I'd like NOT to go back to the post-Gaborik days in the dumpster, if that's all the same to you.

36 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

re-energize him.

I’m all for this approach but not by dropping him down into a role he’s not designed and paid for. He’s a very young and developing player. I’m not surprised by his lack of production. It’s growing pains and the road to getting better. Stick with Boldy he’s going to rebound!!

"Woe is me.  A 70-pt pace player is struggling.  That's the end of the world. GET TRENIN AND HARTMAN ON FIRST LINE!"

Please do remember that only 50-75 players got to 65-70 pts last year.  If Boldy at his worst is "Top 2-3 scorer on the team and Top 50 in the league," that's hardly the struggle think it is.